Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

Is it Ulfric's fault that theirs poverty in his hold? Theirs poverty everywhere in Skyrim, not just in Windhelm. Is it his fault that a group of Dunmer's are messy, and incapable of keeping their homes clean and properly maintained?

Windhelm has more than "poverty" it has segregation and high racial tensions he does nothing to even try ease. The Dunmer aren't messy, their homes are clean. The streets and stonework is falling apart. All they actually ask is Ulfric acknowledges their problems and just goes "I understand, you're citizens of my city and I will take care of you. I don't have what is needed right now."

There are those within Windhelm who treat Argonians and Dunmer as second class citizens, what Ulfric should be doing is ruling even handed. Not just Nordic focused.

You Stormcloaks fight against Thalmor discrimination, while you spread discrimination to those who are not Nords.

There is cause for optimism, though, as Jarl Ulfric is not nearly so tolerant of these substandard beings as his fathers were. - Scourge of the Gray Quarter

The people who cause the racial issues, all believe Ulfric thinks as they do. Not once does he denounce it, or speak out against discrimination.

Jorleif: "Sir, there continues to be unrest in the Gray Quarter."
Ulfric: "Blasted dark elves. I don't suppose you could tell them that I presently have larger concerns? Such as all of Skyrim?"
Jorleif: "They don't seem to be very sympathetic to our cause, sir."
Ulfric: "Let me know if you hear anything more substantial?"
Jorleif: "Of course, my lord."

As far with the situation with the Argonians... as bad as it may seem... they don't have it all that bad. Did you ever explore inside of the Argonian Assemblage lately? They have beds to sleep in and a large fireplace to keep warm, and to cook their foods.

Wow. They don't have it bad, being racially targeted and segregated. But hey, they got some beds and a firepit.

"Torbjorn Shatter-Shield. I wish someone would beat the coin out of his fat fists. He clings to every Septim. He says an Argonian's labor is only worth a tenth of a 'proper Nord worker.'" - Scouts-Many-Marshes

So Ulfric is either unwilling or unable to control his city? He has discrimination through the roof, racial tensions, citizens threatening to torture Dunmer on behalf of the Stormcloaks. If Ulfric can't pull in his supporters and try to make Skyrim unified with all ten races. Why should he be High King? There are more than just Nords living there.

Don't take what Brunwulf Free-Winter says to be serious. He personally slams Ulfric but doesn't mind going to the palace of the kings to fest on the free food that's laying on the large table next to Ulfric's throne.

Brunwulf actually says Ulfric is a great leader. But he is Nord focused. Which is true, the Stormcloaks are.

"I'm a man. Skyrim is man's homeland. That's a fact." - Galmar

The Stormcloaks would have much more success in rebuilding Skyrim from the ruins of Dragons and war... If all ten races worked together. You're not going to get that when majority of Non-Nords feel discriminated and threatened.

By the way Dunmer's and the Argonians typically don't get along with each other considering the fact that the Dunmers once used the Argonians as their personal slaves in Morrowind... and like so many Dunmers in Windhelm many of them migrated to Windhelm from morrowind. You can move but the tradition and culture is still there.

Riften which also borders Morrowind (Has a pass into Morrowind near the city) has a bunch of Dunmer refugees who fled there. How come it is only in Windhelm that the Dunmer and Argonians have issues?

You do know that the Argonians were supposed to go drink in the Dunmer Cornerclub... A scripting error stops them. If the Dunmer and Argonians were hostile, why would they go drink with the Dunmer?

Although I believe in the Stormcloak soldiers mindset, I don't believe in Ulfric. His reasons as to why he wants to clear the Imperials out of Skyrim when they've been there for decades weren't very convincing, it felt more like it was for his own selfish wish to be High King.

Technically the Imperials have been in Skyrim for around six hundred years. Over a thousand if you take into account the Second Cyrodiil Empire.

You're not alone in believing he's selfish and only after the throne.

With the Stormcloaks at his back, Ulfric's poised to rid Skyrim of the Empire's forces and invalidate our involvement with the White-Gold Concordat. Between you and I, I think his motivations are a bit more self-serving. He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne. If he were to be crowned High King, I'm not so certain it would be the golden age his followers expect. - Laila Law-Giver

I'm no man's fool. I know Ulfric Stormcloak's selfish and power-hungry, but he's the devil I know. Does that put it plain enough for you? - Dengeir of Stuhn

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Uhm, are you aware of what the Gray Quarters previously were? Have you ever bothered to talk to the residents of the Gray Quarters? They live in what used to be the Snow Quarters before Ulfric shoved them all in there when they fled to Skyrim to seek refuge after the Red Mountain incident in Morrowind. The name itself is insulting, it's like throwing African-Americans in there and calling them the Black Quarters. The Dunmers aren't given much to work with given they're shunned from going anywhere outside the ghettos. And Ulfric is just awful, even after they spoke against the racism and unfairness they were dealing with and he just turned a blind eye on their plight and deemed them as petty. Although the Argonians and the Dunmers have had their conflicts, this isn't the reason why they don't live together. The Argonians are just strictly prohibited to enter the city. Why? Because Ulfric is just plain xenophobic and racist. They're forced to live out in the docks. They live together in other holds, is that reason you stated really a good reason? This is why I say he can barely run his hold, he shoves aside the problem of any other race that isn't Nord, and given Skyrim is pretty diverse imagine the Gray Quarters x 3098748034 if he ever took over. And truthfully speaking, the only real reasons why other holds are even close to being poor is caused by natural disasters and negative results from the Civil War. Take Winterhold for example, it was just as prosperous and populated as Solitude, but after the Great Collapse it went downhill. Riften went downhill because the Civil War caused the hold to fall into poverty due to the lack of trade. What true disaster happened in Windhelm? Nothing. The real reason Windhelm is in such a state is because Ulfric does just that...nothing. He just sits there and complains about the Thalmor without real reason besides his outrage on the ban of the worship of Talos. How is Windhelm poor, you ask? After beating the Stormcloaks out of Windhelm, Brunwulf Free-Winter is appointed as the new Jarl and if you to speak to him he says "Unfortunately, a sword can't repair damaged buildings, feed hungry people or undo years of prejudice."

And yes, Maven is a bitch and all, but deriving from her prosperous demeanor and drive to be the best in all of Skyrim, I'm sure she can improve things in Riften.

And as I said, the only reason I even took Brunwulf Free-Winter's words seriously was because I didn't really have much to work with on choosing sides, and given the majority of Skyrim basically bad-mouthed Ulfric I just went with popular opinion, and I don't regret it. Although I believe in the Stormcloak soldiers mindset, I don't believe in Ulfric. His reasons as to why he wants to clear the Imperials out of Skyrim when they've been there for decades weren't very convincing, it felt more like it was for his own selfish wish to be High King.

And there are master expert locks in all of Skyrim, not just Windhelm.

Woops, sorry for the essay

Nope, wrong, they've been I the gray quarter for over 200 years about 150 years before Ulfric was even born. That's because most of the Dunmer living in Windhelm came during the Red Year.


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[DrunkenMage]

Nope, wrong, they've been I the gray quarter for over 200 years about 150 years before Ulfric was even born. That's because most of the Dunmer living in Windhelm came during the Red Year.

Two hundred years ago was the Oblivion Crisis. I assume you mean less than two hundred years? The refugees came somewhere between 4E 5 - 4E 16.

On a side note.

God only knows how the Stormcloaks turned the Dunmer (Who have mostly been opposed to the Empire, and who have many reasons to hate the Empire more than most) heavily against them.

So now, "children of Skyrim," you have the truth of it. You may call this province home, but you can no sooner claim to own it than a cow can claim to own its master's field. You are just another breed of domestic animal, grazing stupidly while higher beings plot your slaughter - Dunmer of Skyrim

Whatever you Stormcloaks did, you really pissed them off. Seem to be heading towards what happened to Jarl Hosgunn, having citizens revolt and killing him.

"True, I may meet my end in a dark alley with a dagger in my back." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Most likely Ulfric, most likely.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Two hundred years ago was the Oblivion Crisis. I assume you mean less than two hundred years? The refugees came somewhere between 4E 5 - 4E 16.

Well in my defense, I was kind of making a ballpark estimate. It's just easier for me to say 200 years when in fact it's only about 196

TSo now, "children of Skyrim," you have the truth of it. You may call this province home, but you can no sooner claim to own it than a cow can claim to own its master's field. You are just another breed of domestic animal, grazing stupidly while higher beings plot your slaughter - Dunmer of Skyrim

Quoting Dunmer of Skyrim? God

T"True, I may meet my end in a dark alley with a dagger in my back." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Most likely Ulfric, most likely.

I don't know man, that Thu'um thing that Ulfric has is pretty great.



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[DrunkenMage]

Well in my defense, I was kind of making a ballpark estimate. It's just easier for me to say 200 years when in fact it's only about 196

Maybe 196, no real big reference to Dunmer refugees until around 4E 16.

Quoting Dunmer of Skyrim? God

Shows the climate of the tensions, how far it has reached. They do occupy quarter of the entire city, it is a threat left unchecked. As Ulfric's steward mentions "There is unrest in the Gray Quarter".

Stormcloaks would have a very hard time dealing with it. You're spread too thin after winning the Civil War.

I don't know man, that Thu'um thing that Ulfric has is pretty great.

I don't think the Thu'um will matter to a dagger in the back. Unless the voice is two-ways...

The Thu'um isn't unstoppable. All it takes is a single arrow, and one of them killed a young Voice Master in the First Era (Before all that Way of the Voice crap)

 

[Raijin]

Windhelm has more than "poverty" it has segregation and high racial tensions he does nothing to even try ease. The Dunmer aren't messy, their homes are clean. The streets and stonework is falling apart. All they actually ask is Ulfric acknowledges their problems and just goes "I understand, you're citizens of my city and I will take care of you. I don't have what is needed right now."

There are those within Windhelm who treat Argonians and Dunmer as second class citizens, what Ulfric should be doing is ruling even handed. Not just Nordic focused.

You Stormcloaks fight against Thalmor discrimination, while you spread discrimination to those who are not Nords.

There is cause for optimism, though, as Jarl Ulfric is not nearly so tolerant of these substandard beings as his fathers were. - Scourge of the Gray Quarter

The people who cause the racial issues, all believe Ulfric thinks as they do. Not once does he denounce it, or speak out against discrimination.

Jorleif: "Sir, there continues to be unrest in the Gray Quarter."
Ulfric: "Blasted dark elves. I don't suppose you could tell them that I presently have larger concerns? Such as all of Skyrim?"
Jorleif: "They don't seem to be very sympathetic to our cause, sir."
Ulfric: "Let me know if you hear anything more substantial?"
Jorleif: "Of course, my lord."

Wow. They don't have it bad, being racially targeted and segregated. But hey, they got some beds and a firepit.

"Torbjorn Shatter-Shield. I wish someone would beat the coin out of his fat fists. He clings to every Septim. He says an Argonian's labor is only worth a tenth of a 'proper Nord worker.'" - Scouts-Many-Marshes

So Ulfric is either unwilling or unable to control his city? He has discrimination through the roof, racial tensions, citizens threatening to torture Dunmer on behalf of the Stormcloaks. If Ulfric can't pull in his supporters and try to make Skyrim unified with all ten races. Why should he be High King? There are more than just Nords living there.


Brunwulf actually says Ulfric is a great leader. But he is Nord focused. Which is true, the Stormcloaks are.

"I'm a man. Skyrim is man's homeland. That's a fact." - Galmar

The Stormcloaks would have much more success in rebuilding Skyrim from the ruins of Dragons and war... If all ten races worked together. You're not going to get that when majority of Non-Nords feel discriminated and threatened.


Riften which also borders Morrowind (Has a pass into Morrowind near the city) has a bunch of Dunmer refugees who fled there. How come it is only in Windhelm that the Dunmer and Argonians have issues?

You do know that the Argonians were supposed to go drink in the Dunmer Cornerclub... A scripting error stops them. If the Dunmer and Argonians were hostile, why would they go drink with the Dunmer?

The Dunmers of Windhlem refuses to acknowledge what is truly going on. They refuse to acknowledge that theirs greater issues that needs to be resolve rather than to waste resources on their petty little problems.

Rolff: "You come here where you're not wanted, you eat our food, you pollute our city with your stink and you refuse to help the Stormcloaks."
Suvaris: "But we haven't taken a side because it's not our fight."
Angrenor: "Hey, maybe the reason these gray-skins don't help in the war is because they're Imperial spies!"
Suvaris: "Imperial spies? You can't be serious!"
Rolff: "Maybe we'll pay you a visit tonight, little spy. We got ways of finding out what you really are."

They expect the Nords to drop whatever they're doing to get serviced on yet refuses to lend in support, and become useful because it doesn't personality interfere with their daily lives at such dire times, or so they think. The concept of the Thalmor slowly invading Skyrim with full intentions of taking over the country, and enthralling the Nord's doesn't seem faze the Dunmers whatsoever. Everyone else problems can wait while their needs goes first.

The radial issues was created out of resentments. Resentments are a powerful emotional response that can drive a man to do the unspeakable. Nords such as Rolff is overwhelmed with frustration seeing that the Dunmers from his city aren't doing jack plops, nor are they contributing to the civil war. The Dunmers think about the Dunmers so why is it wrong for the Nords to worry about the Nords? Especially considering the fact that theirs a ticking tgime bomb awaiting to explode in Summerset Isle.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Dunmers of Windhlem refuses to acknowledge what is truly going on. They refuse to acknowledge that theirs greater issues that needs to be resolve rather than to waste resources on their petty little problems.

They're not asking for right away change... They're not even demanding Ulfric hand them every resource, and drop everything. They're asking for basic things to be addressed.

"Well, not yet. The Empire hasn't been in charge for that long, and real change takes time. Still, having a just and honorable man like Brunwulf in charge can only be an improvement. Unlike Ulfric, Brunwulf has shown a great willingness to work with the other races and make us feel more at home here." - Aval Atheron

It isn't hard for their concerns to just be acknowledged. Ignoring them entirely doesn't solve the issue, it creates more issues than it started with.

They expect the Nords to drop whatever they're doing to get serviced on yet refuses to lend in support, and become useful because it doesn't personality interfere with their daily lives at such dire times, or so they think. The concept of the Thalmor slowly invading Skyrim with full intentions of taking over the country, and enthralling the Nord's doesn't seem faze the Dunmers whatsoever. Everyone else problems can wait while their needs goes first.

No they don't. They expect to be treated like any other citizen within Windhelm. Refuse to lend in support? Much of Windhelm don't support the war effort... The Dunmer actually do many services for the city. A) The farm, food goes to the city and to the soldiers. B) They own businesses and make some income, paying taxes which goes into the war. C) They work shipping, bringing in supplies, food, resources and most ironically majority of the money Windhelm sees (Suvaris oversees the operations of Shatter-Shield shipping, more so since the death of Torbjorn's daughter)

Why should a group of people fight for those who treat them as second class citizens? Why should they have to fight at all? They're not soldiers, and have no wish to be killed in a petty Civil War. It is fine when Nords don't fight, but when the Dunmer aren't fighting it is all their fault...

The Thalmor invading Skyrim? Their operations are mainly focused on keeping the Civil War running. "Enthralling Nords" really?... What are they Vampires?

There simply isn't enough Justiciars to take over the entire country. Espionage agents could disrupt and what not, but there is no way the Empire would let an army into Skyrim.

The radial issues was created out of resentments. Resentments are a powerful emotional response that can drive a man to do the unspeakable. Nords such as Rolff is overwhelmed with frustration seeing that the Dunmers from his city aren't doing jack pl***, nor are they contributing to the civil war. The Dunmers think about the Dunmers so why is it wrong for the Nords to worry about the Nords? Especially considering the fact that theirs a ticking tgime bomb awaiting to explode in Summerset Isle.

The Dunmer do more in Windhelm than Rolff and many Nords do themselves... As I have just provided above. It has nothing to do with the fact "They do nothing!" it has everything to do with the fact they're Dunmer. Rolff just hates them.

The Dunmer in Windhelm think about themselves because they're having issues due to race. But they all work and provide Windhelm with some kind of service.

Stormcloaks being entirely Nord focused is another issue altogether, because they're seeking to rule the country. There are nine other races living within Skyrim, and the Stormcloaks are doing nothing to try unify Skyrim and those within it. Many of the Stormcloak supporters are quite near xenophobic.

Nords alone won't be able to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

There are nine other races living within Skyrim, and the Stormcloaks are doing nothing to try unify Skyrim and those within it. Many of the Stormcloak supporters are quite near xenophobic.

I find the thought of Ulfric (or lots of his minions since he can't be bothered to get up from his throne) dying after winning his silly bitchslap fight against the Empire when trying to rid the country of one of the Orc Strongholds quite amusing. After all there've been many Jarls who tried to remove them, without success.

 

[Lewsean]

Ahh back to the Dunmer argument. The ones who try, live a good life, the ones who do nothing but complain, live in slums. That's all there is it too it They don't deserve any special treatment. No Imperial supporter has yet to achnowledge the fact that Windhelm is the most racialy diverse City in Skyrim. I don't see any pro-imperial holds giving up 35% of their City to house refuge's that do nothing but complain all day and have a serious attitude problem with major superiority complex issues. But alas, it's easy for people to throw the word racism about and then get on the high horse, pretty much the same in real life. Raijin summed it up perfectly, the Dunmer will only be happy when their needs are put above everybody elses. Funny how you guys change your point of view when it comes to the Empire putting it's needs above the well being of the Nords. It's okay for Nords to be taken off into the night and never to be seen again, but if a poor Dunmer has a few holes in his floor then the Nords are the scum of the earth. These arguments would go a lot better if you used the same reasoning in every argument.

 

[Zoblazo]

Ahh back to the Dunmer argument. The ones who try, live a good life, the ones who do nothing but complain, live in slums. That's all there is it too it They don't deserve any special treatment. No Imperial supporter has yet to achnowledge the fact that Windhelm is the most racialy diverse City in Skyrim. I don't see any pro-imperial holds giving up 35% of their City to house refuge's that do nothing but complain all day and have a serious attitude problem with major superiority complex issues. But alas, it's easy for people to throw the word racism about and then get on the high horse, pretty much the same in real life. Raijin summed it up perfectly, the Dunmer will only be happy when their needs are put above everybody elses. Funny how you guys change your point of view when it comes to the Empire putting it's needs above the well being of the Nords. It's okay for Nords to be taken off into the night and never to be seen again, but if a poor Dunmer has a few holes in his floor then the Nords are the scum of the earth. These arguments would go a lot better if you used the same reasoning in every argument.

Uhh, the only ones on their high horse are you Stormcloaks, given you put Nords before anyone else as if they're anything special. If you even bothered to properly read our arguments you'd notice no one is asking to give the Dunmers any special treatment or to put them before any other race. Not even the Dunmers themselves. What we ask is that you stop segregating them and stop acting all high and mighty. Stop treating them as petty beings unworthy of sharing the country. That's all there is to it. And quite frankly the reason why no Imperial has ever "acknowledged" that Windhelm is the most "diverse" city in Skyrim is because it's not. And you people have no right bragging about how diverse it is given you can't even properly take care of them. Go travel to any other city and see if it compares. You'll see that we don't discriminate them as trash like you racist scums do. We include them in our cities and treat them as our own, not give them a plopsty "35%" of our city just so that we can go to sleep at night like you people. We don't throw them in the ghettos and force them to live outside our walls. We don't act like they're not worthy of residing in the lands your oh-so-mighty Talos whom you're supposedly fighting for fought for. You know what, I'm glad I went Imperial, and I was going to give you guys a chance but you've proven to me that you're not fit to rule the country. This argument would go a lot better if you people manned up and stopped being selfish. It was great cutting the flesh of your petty leader and I can't wait to visit Cyrodiil and watch his head adorn the walls of the Imperial city as a sign of our victory

 

[Lewsean]

Ahh back to the Dunmer argument. The ones who try, live a good life, the ones who do nothing but complain, live in slums. That's all there is it too it They don't deserve any special treatment. No Imperial supporter has yet to achnowledge the fact that Windhelm is the most racialy diverse City in Skyrim. I don't see any pro-imperial holds giving up 35% of their City to house refuge's that do nothing but complain all day and have a serious attitude problem with major superiority complex issues. But alas, it's easy for people to throw the word racism about and then get on the high horse, pretty much the same in real life. Raijin summed it up perfectly, the Dunmer will only be happy when their needs are put above everybody elses. Funny how you guys change your point of view when it comes to the Empire putting it's needs above the well being of the Nords. It's okay for Nords to be taken off into the night and never to be seen again, but if a poor Dunmer has a few holes in his floor then the Nords are the scum of the earth. These arguments would go a lot better if you used the same reasoning in every argument.

Uhh, the only ones on their high horse are you Stormcloaks, given you put Nords before anyone else as if they're anything special. If you even bothered to properly read our arguments you'd notice no one is asking to give the Dunmers any special treatment or to put them before any other race. Not even the Dunmers themselves. What we ask is that you stop segregating them and stop acting all high and mighty. Stop treating them as petty beings unworthy of sharing the country. That's all there is to it. And quite frankly the reason why no Imperial has ever "acknowledged" that Windhelm is the most "diverse" city in Skyrim is because it's not. And you people have no right bragging about how diverse it is given you can't even properly take care of them. Go travel to any other city and see if it compares. You'll see that we don't discriminate them as trash like you racist scums do. We include them in our cities and treat them as our own, not give them a pl***ty "35%" of our city just so that we can go to sleep at night like you people. We don't throw them in the ghettos and force them to live outside our walls. We don't act like they're not worthy of residing in the lands your oh-so-mighty Talos whom you're supposedly fighting for fought for. You know what, I'm glad I went Imperial, and I was going to give you guys a chance but you've proven to me that you're not fit to rule the country. This argument would go a lot better if you people manned up and stopped being selfish. It was great cutting the flesh of your petty leader and I can't wait to visit Cyrodiil and watch his head adorn the walls of the Imperial city as a sign of our victory

How do we put Nords before everybody else? In case you haven't notice there's homeless Nords in Windhelm whilst Dunmer have homes. I've said this god knows how many times, there is no segregation, you should learn the meaning of the word and then actually take 10 minutes to take a look at the Dunmer (ALL OF THEM) in Windhelm. The whole racist argument is baseless, a racist dictator wouldn't have the race he hates living in his City LOL. All you do is scream 'racist', god damn hippie liberals.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Uhh, the only ones on their high horse are you Stormcloaks, given you put Nords before anyone else as if they're anything special. If you even bothered to properly read our arguments you'd notice no one is asking to give the Dunmers any special treatment or to put them before any other race. Not even the Dunmers themselves. What we ask is that you stop segregating them and stop acting all high and mighty. Stop treating them as petty beings unworthy of sharing the country. That's all there is to it. And quite frankly the reason why no Imperial has ever "acknowledged" that Windhelm is the most "diverse" city in Skyrim is because it's not. And you people have no right bragging about how diverse it is given you can't even properly take care of them. Go travel to any other city and see if it compares. You'll see that we don't discriminate them as trash like you racist scums do. We include them in our cities and treat them as our own, not give them a pl***ty "35%" of our city just so that we can go to sleep at night like you people. We don't throw them in the ghettos and force them to live outside our walls. We don't act like they're not worthy of residing in the lands your oh-so-mighty Talos whom you're supposedly fighting for fought for. You know what, I'm glad I went Imperial, and I was going to give you guys a chance but you've proven to me that you're not fit to rule the country. This argument would go a lot better if you people manned up and stopped being selfish. It was great cutting the flesh of your petty leader and I can't wait to visit Cyrodiil and watch his head adorn the walls of the Imperial city as a sign of our victory

You Imperialist scum! You have no idea what we've sacrificed for you and for the Dunmer. Do you understand what Windhelm is to the Nords? It's basically the center of all Nordic tradition in Skyrim, where Ysgramor founded the first official Nordic city in Skyrim. Having an elf even one foot within the walls gos against everything Ysgramor did. To top it off the Dunmer wish for a better situation on their already tolerable condition. Besides, We can't just give them plops if we aren't doing the same for the Nords. That would cause publicly uproar to even the tolerant Nords. Sorry guy their situation isn't that bad it never was, it's just what the Dunmer want you to believe so they have another person on their pity train.

They've been in that "ghetto" way before Ulfric was even born. We didn't force them there. Besides I don't see you Imperials doing anything about it, Brunwulf says "the Argonians are safer outside the city" well did you ever think that maybe Ulfric thinks the same thing? Oh of course you didn't, because Ulfric's the "big bad racist who only looks out for the Nords."

I did visit other cities, Stormcloak ones, and no such racism existed. Do you know why? Because the Dunmer of Riften actually integrated and tried to work their way up while the Dunmer of Windhelm bitch and moan about their "deplorable condition". Oh boo-hoo you have a few holes in your floor boards. Do you have food? Do you have shelter? Do you have heat? Yes? Okay then maybe if you actually tried to better your situation, y'know by actually working, maybe they wouldn't have this problem. Don't like it well then you can go live in the f***ing cold I don't really care. If there's one thing a Nord can't stand it's bitching and moaning ESPECIALLY from Elves, and I think Ulfric's had it up to here with the Bullplops the Dunmer are spewing.

And where are the Argonians going to be housed in Windhelm exactly? I see no place where they can go except for the assemblage. Or do you suggest they live on the streets as apposed to the heated shelter on the outside of the city. If you ask me the Dunmer who bitch and moan should be kicked out of the city and the Argonians should be allowed in, they deserve it more.


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[Mikulas Black-Blade]

How do we put Nords before everybody else? In case you haven't notice there's homeless Nords in Windhelm whilst Dunmer have homes. I've said this god knows how many times, there is no segregation, you should learn the meaning of the word and then actually take 10 minutes to take a look at the Dunmer (ALL OF THEM) in Windhelm. The whole racist argument is baseless, a racist dictator wouldn't have the race he hates living in his City LOL. All you do is scream 'racist', god damn hippie liberals.

I would like the shot out of that quote if I could do that from a noble phone. Well put, brother.


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[Zoblazo]

Ahh back to the Dunmer argument. The ones who try, live a good life, the ones who do nothing but complain, live in slums. That's all there is it too it They don't deserve any special treatment. No Imperial supporter has yet to achnowledge the fact that Windhelm is the most racialy diverse City in Skyrim. I don't see any pro-imperial holds giving up 35% of their City to house refuge's that do nothing but complain all day and have a serious attitude problem with major superiority complex issues. But alas, it's easy for people to throw the word racism about and then get on the high horse, pretty much the same in real life. Raijin summed it up perfectly, the Dunmer will only be happy when their needs are put above everybody elses. Funny how you guys change your point of view when it comes to the Empire putting it's needs above the well being of the Nords. It's okay for Nords to be taken off into the night and never to be seen again, but if a poor Dunmer has a few holes in his floor then the Nords are the scum of the earth. These arguments would go a lot better if you used the same reasoning in every argument.

Uhh, the only ones on their high horse are you Stormcloaks, given you put Nords before anyone else as if they're anything special. If you even bothered to properly read our arguments you'd notice no one is asking to give the Dunmers any special treatment or to put them before any other race. Not even the Dunmers themselves. What we ask is that you stop segregating them and stop acting all high and mighty. Stop treating them as petty beings unworthy of sharing the country. That's all there is to it. And quite frankly the reason why no Imperial has ever "acknowledged" that Windhelm is the most "diverse" city in Skyrim is because it's not. And you people have no right bragging about how diverse it is given you can't even properly take care of them. Go travel to any other city and see if it compares. You'll see that we don't discriminate them as trash like you racist scums do. We include them in our cities and treat them as our own, not give them a pl***ty "35%" of our city just so that we can go to sleep at night like you people. We don't throw them in the ghettos and force them to live outside our walls. We don't act like they're not worthy of residing in the lands your oh-so-mighty Talos whom you're supposedly fighting for fought for. You know what, I'm glad I went Imperial, and I was going to give you guys a chance but you've proven to me that you're not fit to rule the country. This argument would go a lot better if you people manned up and stopped being selfish. It was great cutting the flesh of your petty leader and I can't wait to visit Cyrodiil and watch his head adorn the walls of the Imperial city as a sign of our victory

How do we put Nords before everybody else? In case you haven't notice there's homeless Nords in Windhelm whilst Dunmer have homes. I've said this god knows how many times, there is no segregation, you should learn the meaning of the word and then actually take 10 minutes to take a look at the Dunmer (ALL OF THEM) in Windhelm. The whole racist argument is baseless, a racist dictator wouldn't have the race he hates living in his City LOL. All you do is scream 'racist', god damn hippie liberals.

Ahh back to the Dunmer argument. The ones who try, live a good life, the ones who do nothing but complain, live in slums. That's all there is it too it They don't deserve any special treatment. No Imperial supporter has yet to achnowledge the fact that Windhelm is the most racialy diverse City in Skyrim. I don't see any pro-imperial holds giving up 35% of their City to house refuge's that do nothing but complain all day and have a serious attitude problem with major superiority complex issues. But alas, it's easy for people to throw the word racism about and then get on the high horse, pretty much the same in real life. Raijin summed it up perfectly, the Dunmer will only be happy when their needs are put above everybody elses. Funny how you guys change your point of view when it comes to the Empire putting it's needs above the well being of the Nords. It's okay for Nords to be taken off into the night and never to be seen again, but if a poor Dunmer has a few holes in his floor then the Nords are the scum of the earth. These arguments would go a lot better if you used the same reasoning in every argument.

Uhh, the only ones on their high horse are you Stormcloaks, given you put Nords before anyone else as if they're anything special. If you even bothered to properly read our arguments you'd notice no one is asking to give the Dunmers any special treatment or to put them before any other race. Not even the Dunmers themselves. What we ask is that you stop segregating them and stop acting all high and mighty. Stop treating them as petty beings unworthy of sharing the country. That's all there is to it. And quite frankly the reason why no Imperial has ever "acknowledged" that Windhelm is the most "diverse" city in Skyrim is because it's not. And you people have no right bragging about how diverse it is given you can't even properly take care of them. Go travel to any other city and see if it compares. You'll see that we don't discriminate them as trash like you racist scums do. We include them in our cities and treat them as our own, not give them a pl***ty "35%" of our city just so that we can go to sleep at night like you people. We don't throw them in the ghettos and force them to live outside our walls. We don't act like they're not worthy of residing in the lands your oh-so-mighty Talos whom you're supposedly fighting for fought for. You know what, I'm glad I went Imperial, and I was going to give you guys a chance but you've proven to me that you're not fit to rule the country. This argument would go a lot better if you people manned up and stopped being selfish. It was great cutting the flesh of your petty leader and I can't wait to visit Cyrodiil and watch his head adorn the walls of the Imperial city as a sign of our victory

How do we put Nords before everybody else? In case you haven't notice there's homeless Nords in Windhelm whilst Dunmer have homes. I've said this god knows how many times, there is no segregation, you should learn the meaning of the word and then actually take 10 minutes to take a look at the Dunmer (ALL OF THEM) in Windhelm. The whole racist argument is baseless, a racist dictator wouldn't have the race he hates living in his City LOL. All you do is scream 'racist', god damn hippie liberals.

Quite frankly the reason why they're homeless is because they don't get off their lazy asses and get jobs lmao And I wouldn't be throwing that word around if I didn't know what it meant, it's what you guys are doing, just that you don't want to admit it. Want me to stop using that word? Tell your precious leader to stop brainwashing everyone into thinking any outsider doesn't belong in Skyrim and should be shunned into Oblivion. Get out of here you conservative pigs.

 

[Jeremius]

-snip-

I thinnk that Zoblazo is right, but not in the way you think. For me, I think the reason the Dunmer are not involved in the war is because they have no reason to get involved. IT is not about them working or not. Rolff clearly states that he hates them because they refuse to help the rebels, as if he just expected themto join the rebellion just because they live in the rebellion capital. If you want people to help the rebels, appeal to them. With the Dunmer, Racial pride is a good tool.

 

[Zoblazo]

Uhh, the only ones on their high horse are you Stormcloaks, given you put Nords before anyone else as if they're anything special. If you even bothered to properly read our arguments you'd notice no one is asking to give the Dunmers any special treatment or to put them before any other race. Not even the Dunmers themselves. What we ask is that you stop segregating them and stop acting all high and mighty. Stop treating them as petty beings unworthy of sharing the country. That's all there is to it. And quite frankly the reason why no Imperial has ever "acknowledged" that Windhelm is the most "diverse" city in Skyrim is because it's not. And you people have no right bragging about how diverse it is given you can't even properly take care of them. Go travel to any other city and see if it compares. You'll see that we don't discriminate them as trash like you racist scums do. We include them in our cities and treat them as our own, not give them a pl***ty "35%" of our city just so that we can go to sleep at night like you people. We don't throw them in the ghettos and force them to live outside our walls. We don't act like they're not worthy of residing in the lands your oh-so-mighty Talos whom you're supposedly fighting for fought for. You know what, I'm glad I went Imperial, and I was going to give you guys a chance but you've proven to me that you're not fit to rule the country. This argument would go a lot better if you people manned up and stopped being selfish. It was great cutting the flesh of your petty leader and I can't wait to visit Cyrodiil and watch his head adorn the walls of the Imperial city as a sign of our victory

You Imperialist scum! You have no idea what we've sacrificed for you and for the Dunmer. Do you understand what Windhelm is to the Nords? It's basically the center of all Nordic tradition in Skyrim, where Ysgramor founded the first official Nordic city in Skyrim. Having an elf even one foot within the walls gos against everything Ysgramor did. To top it off the Dunmer wish for a better situation on their already tolerable condition. Besides, We can't just give them pl*** if we aren't doing the same for the Nords. That would cause publicly uproar to even the tolerant Nords. Sorry guy their situation isn't that bad it never was, it's just what the Dunmer want you to believe so they have another person on their pity train.

They've been in that "ghetto" way before Ulfric was even born. We didn't force them there. Besides I don't see you Imperials doing anything about it, Brunwulf says "the Argonians are safer outside the city" well did you ever think that maybe Ulfric thinks the same thing? Oh of course you didn't, because Ulfric's the "big bad racist who only looks out for the Nords."

I did visit other cities, Stormcloak ones, and no such racism existed. Do you know why? Because the Dunmer of Riften actually integrated and tried to work their way up while the Dunmer of Windhelm bitch and moan about their "deplorable condition". Oh boo-hoo you have a few holes in your floor boards. Do you have food? Do you have shelter? Do you have heat? Yes? Okay then maybe if you actually tried to better your situation, y'know by actually working, maybe they wouldn't have this problem. Don't like it well then you can go live in the f***ing cold I don't really care. If there's one thing a Nord can't stand it's bitching and moaning ESPECIALLY from Elves, and I think Ulfric's had it up to here with the Bullpl*** the Dunmer are spewing.

And where are the Argonians going to be housed in Windhelm exactly? I see no place where they can go except for the assemblage. Or do you suggest they live on the streets as apposed to the heated shelter on the outside of the city. If you ask me the Dunmer who bitch and moan should be kicked out of the city and the Argonians should be allowed in, they deserve it more.


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Ok, maybe Ulfric didn't put them in the ghettos, that's not the problem here. The problem is that although the Dunmers have seeked his aid he ignores them. Shoves them aside. Treats them like nothing. The Dunmers of the other holds don't have a pig like Ulfric ruling them therefore they can work their way up. The problem here is Ulfric himself. And the housing problem is not the reason why the Argonians live outside the city walls, it's you prejudice filled pigs. Whatever, it's fine, live as you please.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

What I love about this particular thread is how differently each party interprets what is going on , what is said and the entire political situation! It's fascinating! Keep it up all! This is a great thread!

 

[Daelon DuLac]

Uhh, the only ones on their high horse are you Stormcloaks, given you put Nords before anyone else as if they're anything special. If you even bothered to properly read our arguments you'd notice no one is asking to give the Dunmers any special treatment or to put them before any other race. Not even the Dunmers themselves. What we ask is that you stop segregating them and stop acting all high and mighty. Stop treating them as petty beings unworthy of sharing the country. That's all there is to it. And quite frankly the reason why no Imperial has ever "acknowledged" that Windhelm is the most "diverse" city in Skyrim is because it's not. And you people have no right bragging about how diverse it is given you can't even properly take care of them. Go travel to any other city and see if it compares. You'll see that we don't discriminate them as trash like you racist scums do. We include them in our cities and treat them as our own, not give them a pl***ty "35%" of our city just so that we can go to sleep at night like you people. We don't throw them in the ghettos and force them to live outside our walls. We don't act like they're not worthy of residing in the lands your oh-so-mighty Talos whom you're supposedly fighting for fought for. You know what, I'm glad I went Imperial, and I was going to give you guys a chance but you've proven to me that you're not fit to rule the country. This argument would go a lot better if you people manned up and stopped being selfish. It was great cutting the flesh of your petty leader and I can't wait to visit Cyrodiil and watch his head adorn the walls of the Imperial city as a sign of our victory

You Imperialist scum! You have no idea what we've sacrificed for you and for the Dunmer. Do you understand what Windhelm is to the Nords? It's basically the center of all Nordic tradition in Skyrim, where Ysgramor founded the first official Nordic city in Skyrim. Having an elf even one foot within the walls gos against everything Ysgramor did. To top it off the Dunmer wish for a better situation on their already tolerable condition. Besides, We can't just give them pl*** if we aren't doing the same for the Nords. That would cause publicly uproar to even the tolerant Nords. Sorry guy their situation isn't that bad it never was, it's just what the Dunmer want you to believe so they have another person on their pity train.

They've been in that "ghetto" way before Ulfric was even born. We didn't force them there. Besides I don't see you Imperials doing anything about it, Brunwulf says "the Argonians are safer outside the city" well did you ever think that maybe Ulfric thinks the same thing? Oh of course you didn't, because Ulfric's the "big bad racist who only looks out for the Nords."

I did visit other cities, Stormcloak ones, and no such racism existed. Do you know why? Because the Dunmer of Riften actually integrated and tried to work their way up while the Dunmer of Windhelm bitch and moan about their "deplorable condition". Oh boo-hoo you have a few holes in your floor boards. Do you have food? Do you have shelter? Do you have heat? Yes? Okay then maybe if you actually tried to better your situation, y'know by actually working, maybe they wouldn't have this problem. Don't like it well then you can go live in the f***ing cold I don't really care. If there's one thing a Nord can't stand it's bitching and moaning ESPECIALLY from Elves, and I think Ulfric's had it up to here with the Bullpl*** the Dunmer are spewing.

And where are the Argonians going to be housed in Windhelm exactly? I see no place where they can go except for the assemblage. Or do you suggest they live on the streets as apposed to the heated shelter on the outside of the city. If you ask me the Dunmer who bitch and moan should be kicked out of the city and the Argonians should be allowed in, they deserve it more.


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Ok, maybe Ulfric didn't put them in the ghettos, that's not the problem here. The problem is that although the Dunmers have seeked his aid he ignores them. Shoves them aside. Treats them like nothing. The Dunmers of the other holds don't have a pig like Ulfric ruling them therefore they can work their way up. The problem here is Ulfric himself. And the housing problem is not the reason why the Argonians live outside the city walls, it's you prejudice filled pigs. Whatever, it's fine, live as you please.

I wouldn't feel too bad about it though. He pretty much does that to everybody except his inner circle. He has no respect for anyone. Personally, while I may not agree with him on everything and know that he has a deeper political and his motivations for his own power grab may be questionable to some degree, if you listen to his actual conversations, I do believe he believes in what he is doing.

Maybe it's about politics, maybe it's about Nord Pride, maybe it's nothing more than simply wanting to prove his own worth to himself after all he went through in the Great War and at Markarth.

That's why Skyrim is wonderful. We can interpret it any way we want.

 

[Jeremius]

You Imperialist scum! You have no idea what we've sacrificed for you and for the Dunmer. Do you understand what Windhelm is to the Nords? It's basically the center of all Nordic tradition in Skyrim, where Ysgramor founded the first official Nordic city in Skyrim. Having an elf even one foot within the walls gos against everything Ysgramor did. To top it off the Dunmer wish for a better situation on their already tolerable condition. Besides, We can't just give them pl*** if we aren't doing the same for the Nords. That would cause publicly uproar to even the tolerant Nords. Sorry guy their situation isn't that bad it never was, it's just what the Dunmer want you to believe so they have another person on their pity train.

They've been in that "ghetto" way before Ulfric was even born. We didn't force them there. Besides I don't see you Imperials doing anything about it, Brunwulf says "the Argonians are safer outside the city" well did you ever think that maybe Ulfric thinks the same thing? Oh of course you didn't, because Ulfric's the "big bad racist who only looks out for the Nords."

I did visit other cities, Stormcloak ones, and no such racism existed. Do you know why? Because the Dunmer of Riften actually integrated and tried to work their way up while the Dunmer of Windhelm bitch and moan about their "deplorable condition". Oh boo-hoo you have a few holes in your floor boards. Do you have food? Do you have shelter? Do you have heat? Yes? Okay then maybe if you actually tried to better your situation, y'know by actually working, maybe they wouldn't have this problem. Don't like it well then you can go live in the f***ing cold I don't really care. If there's one thing a Nord can't stand it's bitching and moaning ESPECIALLY from Elves, and I think Ulfric's had it up to here with the Bullpl*** the Dunmer are spewing.

And where are the Argonians going to be housed in Windhelm exactly? I see no place where they can go except for the assemblage. Or do you suggest they live on the streets as apposed to the heated shelter on the outside of the city. If you ask me the Dunmer who bitch and moan should be kicked out of the city and the Argonians should be allowed in, they deserve it more.


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Ok, maybe Ulfric didn't put them in the ghettos, that's not the problem here. The problem is that although the Dunmers have seeked his aid he ignores them. Shoves them aside. Treats them like nothing. The Dunmers of the other holds don't have a pig like Ulfric ruling them therefore they can work their way up. The problem here is Ulfric himself. And the housing problem is not the reason why the Argonians live outside the city walls, it's you prejudice filled pigs. Whatever, it's fine, live as you please.

I wouldn't feel too bad about it though. He pretty much does that to everybody except his inner circle. He has no respect for anyone. Personally, while I may not agree with him on everything and know that he has a deeper political and his motivations for his own power grab may be questionable to some degree, if you listen to his actual conversations, I do believe he believes in what he is doing.

Maybe it's about politics, maybe it's about Nord Pride, maybe it's nothing more than simply wanting to prove his own worth to himself after all he went through in the Great War and at Markarth.

That's why Skyrim is wonderful. We can interpret it any way we want.

I find it is a bit of both, which is why I think that the Stormcloak are being stupid appealing to mostly the human demographic.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Ok, maybe Ulfric didn't put them in the ghettos, that's not the problem here. The problem is that although the Dunmers have seeked his aid he ignores them. Shoves them aside. Treats them like nothing.

No, he just ignores them. Doesn't give them
Handouts, he doesn't give anybody handouts so I don't see why this is a problem when it comes to the Dunmer. Maybe you have some prejudice of your own there, hmm?

The Dunmers of the other holds don't have a pig like Ulfric ruling them therefore they can work their way up. The problem here is Ulfric himself.

Ulfric doesn't care what the Dunmer do, they can do whatever, they can work their way up if they actually tried to, but they don't, or a least very few do. Look at Belyn he's doing alright for himself, got a nice farm outside the city with his own Nord workers. Things are going well for him, and he keeps a positive attitude, unlike that Milkdrinker Ambarys, who bitches and complains about the Nords non-stop.

And the housing problem is not the reason why the Argonians live outside the city walls, it's you prejudice filled pigs. Whatever, it's fine, live as you please.

Oh please, where is your evidence for that claim? We have no idea if it's racism keeping the Argonians out, and even if it was Ulfric probably would've had it enforced to the rest of his holdings, like Darkwater Crossing. If he was truly not letting the Argonians to live in the city because of prejudice, Why would he allow an Argonian to live in Darkwater Crossing? Oh and by the way I have no problem with the Dunmer as a race, i have a problem with the Dumbmer of Windhelm thinking they should have more then they are entitled to.



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