DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Do the Mages get a lot of hate?
No it isn't. You can't call it segregation when some of them aren't "segregated".. To be segregated means the whole race needs to be in the Greay Quater, they aren't.
The person who owns the farm still lives in the Gray Quarter, oops there goes your argument.
The Argonians are also segregated. You can call it segregation because the Dunmer and Argonians are separated from everyone else.
Why dismiss the other comments? It's a NORD city, he wouldn't have the club without NORDS. He wouldn't even have anywhere to live without the help of the people he despises.
Dismiss the other comments? He's been facing racial hatred from the locals, why would he care about the people who treat them like lesser beings? Do the Stormcloaks say nice things about the Thalmor?
You even seen a Dunmer farmer off to join the Empire, because of how he's being treated. He wouldn't have the club without Nords? He owns a business and pays taxes to the city. He doesn't get handouts.
Ignoring the fact that they complain, complain and complain when nobody is forcing them to live there. Like I said if they feel they're being mistreated so much and they hate the Stormcloaks, there's a carridge outside waiting to take them to Solitude for 20-50 septims. But they won't, because no other Hold in Skyrim will take on so many refugee's.
Windhelm has been their home for nearly two hundred years, they've established themselves there. It isn't just that they "complain" they have justified concerns, and bring it to the Jarl.
Why should they have to leave, because they don't like being treated like pl***? It should be the Stormcloaks who should be getting over themselves and stop treating them like second class citizens.
Treated them like dirt? You concentrate of the negatives but ALWAYS refuse to achknowledge that they are REFUGEES who could have been moved along when they first arrived but they were let in/housed/fed at the expense of NORDS. Nobody owes them ANYTHING, they should be grateful.
They were refugees two hundred years ago. They all work, and have businesses in Windhelm. Could have moved along when they first arrived?
There is cause for optimism, though, as Jarl Ulfric is not nearly so tolerant of these substandard beings as his fathers were. - Scourge of the Gray Quarter
Being given something two hundred years ago, doesn't mean Ulfric and the Stormcloaks can take credit for it. The Dunmer are owed being treated like everyone else, they work and some provide Windhelm with food.
Like I've said time and time again, they're refugees living in HIS city during a Civil War and they do nothing but whine. A Civil War is more important than filling the god damn holes in his floor boards of some dippl*** Dark Elf who makes his views about the very people he demands help from quite clear.
They were refugees two hundred years ago. They all work and sustain themselves, Ulfric doesn't pay for them, he doesn't feed them and clothe them while they sit around doing nothing. Cities require maintenance, buildings need repaired or they face the problem of collapsing. Windhelm is thousands of years old, it needs repairs often.
If life is as bad as they say it is in Windhelm they would just pick up and leave Obviously there situation right now is better than any alternative, they're just a whiney bunch of lazy leeches. Well most of them are, and the ones that aren't are flourishing, what a surprise...
They're not lazy, they all bloody work. Get that into your head, point to me a single "lazy leech" in the Dunmer population?
You can't, because you have none. They're asking to be treated like everyone else, because they're citizens too. Their requests are actually basic, they're not asking for change instantly.
They want Ulfric to just take a look at their situation, and they want the Gray Quarter to be renamed back to the Snow Quarter.
Hah, not one Dunmer has been killed, Tullius' attitude towards Nords is the same if not worse than the Nords attitude to Dunmer. Rather hypocritical to even bother using citizens threatened with torcher and death as an argument don't you think?
Not yet, but should Rolff gets his way: "Wouldn't surprise me. They've done nothing to help in the fight for Skyrim's freedom. Those Thalmor are elves, too. I bet they're working together. Maybe I should round up some men and take us a few prisoners to interrogate."
"Soon we'll rid Skyrim of elves, their bloody Justiciars, and the Jarls in their pockets. The whole damn lot of them. And we'll cleave through the Legion to get to them."
Legion soldiers are randomly generated between Imperial, Nord, Breton and Redguard.
"When the sons of Skyrim would spill their own blood."
Seren: "I'm just worried about raising a child in the middle of this war of yours."
Rustleif: "War of mine? It's not my war, Seren!"
Seren: "Your people's war, I mean. The Nords. What kind of life would we be giving our little one if we stayed here?"
It is a Skyrim Civil War. The Legions got involved recently, the Holds were warring for years.
I wasn't talking about millitary activities though was I? They earned their title "dark elf" because most of them are grim, confrontational, and racist. There society was largely dependant on the enslavement of 'beast' races, aswell as Nords/Imperials, let's not forget that they are mostly devout Daedra worshippers. Name one time when Nords enslaved multiple peoples based on there race?
Windhelm was built with Snow Elf slaves, thousands died building it. Slavery was common in Tamriel, it was only the Third Empire that outlawed it. Every province had slaves, Morrowind had slaves because it was allowed by Tiber Septim.
The Dunmer haven't practiced slavery in over two hundred years, prior to the Oblivion Crisis. Slavery was ended and the slaves returned home.
So it's fine for the Empie to racially profile Khajiit merchants, but Ulfric can't racially profile Argonians?
So Ulfric banished the Argonians because he believes them to be all skomma addicts?
Khajiit merchants aren't allowed in any Nordic city, it is what the Nord Jarls have chosen to do. Has nothing to do with the Empire's policies.
The Empire isn't fully involved because you can't handle it, and if you lack the troops to fortify a southern border & deal with a rebellion that is supposedly easy to quell, how do you expect to do anything against the Thalmor? It will take more than Cyrodill to beat the Thalmor, but your more interested in keeping the Elves happy that you'll conduct a Civil War on your own people before anything else, pathetic.
The Empire isn't fully involved because it has no reason to be, Ulfric can't even risk upsetting Cyrodiil because he can't afford an all out war with the Empire.
The Empire doesn't lack troops to be tied down on the Aldmeri Dominion's border, it isn't just "fortify it!" they're camped out down there waiting for orders. The Empire dealt with the rebellion, Ulfric Stormcloak had been captured and was about to be executed...
The reason there is a large lack of reinforcements is due to Pale Pass being blocked from an avalanch. The Empire is clearing it, and as mentioned from the Stormcloaks themselves. A new Imperial force is assembling to the south, coming to march into Skyrim.
Looks like that counts as, oh my god, could it really be? Reinforcements. The only pathetic thing is somehow you expect that the Empire if they were thinking logically, would hand Skyrim to Ulfric Stormcloak. The Empire believes the Thalmor are behind the Civil War, you don't hand a province to a group you think the Thalmor are behind.
The only reason there's a rebellion in the first place is because the Empire did what any Empire WOUDLN'T do. You forced the issue, then blame the Nords for not standing for it.
I blame them for being seduced by a charismatic politician who seeks the throne, no matter the cost.
Actually yeah, the stormcloaks are most of skyrim, most of the legion is imperials, from what the legates say it sounds like the legion only just started recruiting locals. In solitude, roggvir's family are obviously stormcloak sympathizers, and most stormcloak hate there comes from Bretons and imperials. Markarth has the silver bloods, but everyone there seems more concerned with forsworn than cheering on the legion. In morthal no one cares, and falkreath started off supporting the stormcloaks but at the last second they gave Dengeir the boot. The legion is all adventurers who want to see the world or mercs or actual soldiers. Stormcloaks are citizens standing up for their country and beliefs. Every time I play with the imperials I feel terribly everytime I kill a stormcloak cause I know they were probably a farmer or merchant who truly wanted an independent skyrim and be able to get rid of thalmor and worship their gods again.
No they're not. Most of the Legion in Skyrim aren't Imperials, they started local recruiting to boost their numbers. Nords have been joining the Legion for a long time.
The Legion soldiers you come across do have those fighting for their beliefs. Each side comments on why they joined their faction.
Stormcloaks you meet, some mention they only fight because "I'm a True Nord, simple as is"
You have a real uninformed bias going, since the local recruited are farmers and merchants, just like the Stormcloaks. Both sides are a Militia from locals. You hear Legion soldiers go on about "I couldn't stand by and watch the Stormcloaks tear everything apart"
So you feel bad about killing Stormcloaks who believe in their cause, but have no issue killing the Legion who believe in theirs?
The Thalmor doesn't just hate anyone... just those who don't align themselves with Thalmor interests. While they are against the Empire, and hate everything that it stands for it appears that the Thalmor's primary target is Skyrim at this time. They've already established a Stronghold (The Thalmor Embassy) and manage to capture a fort, and use it for their own prison.
The Thalmor do just hate anyone, if you're not one of them, you're nothing to them. Raijin, a single Thalmor embassy and a prison isn't an invasion. They don't have large numbers in Skyrim.
This is just one small step of attempting to take over the province... the very fact that the Thalmor Ambassador is doing a great job buttering up the wealthy nobles of Skyrim, even the future Queen of Skyrim is being heavily seduced, by hosting up luxury parties with expensive wines, and foods.
The Nobles and Jarls put on a show Raijin, anytime they're speaking about lasting peace between the Thalmor and Empire they're being sarcastic, which even the game files mention "Doesn't believe a word of it"
"Quite often, yes. The only thing I enjoy more than luxury is sharing that luxury with those who can appreciate it."
"But I also enjoy learning the latest gossip and hear the most intriguing rumors." -Elenwen
http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc22c
"Of course not. One does not gather the most important men and women of Skyrim and then serve them cheap ale and stale bread."
"This is only a taste of the benefits that accrue to those that align themselves with Thalmor interests."
-Elenwen
The parties are just the Thalmor being dicks.
"I swear Elenwen holds these parties just to make the Empire look bad. Almost makes me want to join the Stormcloaks."
No the Blades are not protected from an Imperial victory. The fact that the Empire disowned them even further proves it. Why would the Empire go out of their way to protect something that they threw away? Would you aggressively protect something that you just tossed away in the trash? Like a piece of paper that you no longer want? For as long as the WGC is still active and healthy The blades would not be safe.
A Stormcloak victory would give them some form of security and time to regain back their strength and power.
They don't need protection, they're hidden inside a fortress that has been lost since the Second Era. Unless the Thalmor manages to get the only copy of a book that Esbern has, they won't find it.
Delphine also isn't stupid enough to be followed, and if the Thalmor discovered them. They would need an army to get them out of that fortress, and the Empire stands between them for that in either victory.
The Blades are also against the Greybeards, so I don't think the Nords would be quick to side against the Greybeards.
Yes I am blaming the Empire for not enforcing the Talos ban. Who wouldn't? Why would a Government ban something and not enforce it? That's just stupid and down right ridiculous.
That alone almost makes me rage quit this thread.
The Thalmor wouldn't be in Skyrim if the Empire wasn't holding their part of the bargain.
They're in Skyrim because of the White-Gold Concordat, their increased presence is due to the rebellion. (mainly because they're sending supporters flocking towards Ulfric with their large inquisition)
I can barely keep up with your defense of the Empire. I refuse to believe that you're this naive, and willing to accept that what the Empire did was in the right.
I do think what the Empire did was right, they barely survived the last war.
Lets put it this way, Drunkenmage. You and I are at holy war: The Great war and you were winning. I decided that enough was enough and I came to you to ask for mercy, and you accepted it on 3 conditions.
1. Disown the blades (who was spying on you)
2. Ban the worship of Talos
3. Give you large sections of land
Later on you found out that I was not enforcing the ban of talos that was part of the bargain that was agreed upon. What would you do? Get angry right? Thats what the Thalmor did and so they created their own enforcements: Thalmor Justiciars. Because of the treaty that they signed the Thalmor were thus given free reign to not only hunt down the blades, but to also enforce the Talos worship through force... even go as far as slaughtering people.
The Thalmor don't get angry, they knew the Empire wouldn't enforce the ban from the get go. They don't care about that, they wanted to plant the seeds for Ulfric's uprising. The Thalmor care about taking over Tamriel, weakening Skyrim and the Empire is the best solution.
Skyrim and the Empire represent the only organized threat against them.
Chances are they've already won.
Yes, there are a few legionnaires who fight for their beliefs, but the Cyrodiilic ones and the mercenaries/professional soldiers (Tullius says so in Windhelm) who are there for the fun of it or pay, they are basically an invading force.
And what are those legionnaires fighting for? They say they couldn't stand by and watch the stormcloaks gain independence? It's not your problem.
Plus most of the Nord legionnaires left to join the stormcloaks (Galmar and rikke say so at korvanjund).
You keep coming back to how a united empire is the only hope against the thalmor, but why should nords and redguards who were basically betrayed by the empire help Cyrodiil especially when the empire is uniting by force.
How enthused are nords gonna be to go enrol to help Cyrodiil in a second war, after the legion killed so many of them and outlawed talos and all that.
Maybe you remember wulf, from morrowind? Supposedly Talos himself?
"The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."
Jarl Balgruuf is taking action against Giants tooThe Empire must remain to protect giants. Less Skald have his wish and try drive them from the Pale.
There are very few from Cyrodiil proper, many are locally recruited.
You repeat this so many times, yet it holds no bearing whatsoever. The soldiers you kill are Imperial's, not Nords.Locally recruited militia.
Yes, there are a few legionnaires who fight for their beliefs, but the Cyrodiilic ones and the mercenaries/professional soldiers (Tullius says so in Windhelm) who are there for the fun of it or pay, they are basically an invading force.
No. Many in the Legion serve in the Legion because they believe in preserving the Empire. Some join to see the world, others because it was tradition. But it doesn't mean they don't believe what they're fighting for.
Mercenaries are mercenaries, they're not Legion. Tullius says so in Windhelm? He mentions double pay to the widows of lost soldiers...
And what are those legionnaires fighting for? They say they couldn't stand by and watch the stormcloaks gain independence? It's not your problem.
There are very few from Cyrodiil proper, many are locally recruited. The ones who say they joined recently because they couldn't watch the Stormcloaks tear everything apart? That is their problem, they live in Skyrim and believe in the Empire.
To actually claim that the Stormcloaks believe in their cause while those in the Legion don't, not only is it biased. It is just utterly false.
Plus most of the Nord legionnaires left to join the stormcloaks (Galmar and rikke say so at korvanjund).
Many Nords in the Stormcloaks are ex Legion. Skyrim's Legions are in Cyrodiil, what you're fighting is skeleton garrisons and locally recruited militia.
You keep coming back to how a united empire is the only hope against the thalmor, but why should nords and redguards who were basically betrayed by the empire help Cyrodiil especially when the empire is uniting by force.
It is funny how there actually are Nord and Redguard Legionnaires fighting against the Stormcloaks. Cyrodiil isn't uniting by force, the Stormcloaks chose to attack the Western Holds, Ulfric chose to kill High King Torygg.
Forced independence on those that don't want it is still a form of oppression. The Redguards stand a better chance of coming to terms with Cyrodiil than they ever would Skyrim.
How enthused are nords gonna be to go enrol to help Cyrodiil in a second war, after the legion killed so many of them and outlawed talos and all that.
Recruitment for the Legion is actually going good in Skyrim, large numbers of those who recently joined. It also has nothing to do with "enrolling" the Legions from Skyrim, those mostly Nord Legions are already in Cyrodiil. If the Nords affected by Civil War want to sit out, then that just screws you up. The Nords are fighting each other, many families have been torn apart.
Tullius doesn't need to build up an army in Skyrim, they have no plan to. It is the Stormcloaks who need to build their army up, train them and what not. The Empire's army is already in position. Some people will probably join up, but the Legion only needed them for the rebellion while the main forces were tied up.
Maybe you remember wulf, from morrowind? Supposedly Talos himself?
"The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."
Nice, except that was over two hundred years ago. There was change, called the Stormccrown Interregnum. Many things in the Empire changed from the Septim Dynasty. But, the words of a slaver, liar and conqueror don't hold much sway with me.
Besides, lovely Tiber was smart enough to use the Nords as one does a tool.
For brief periods, one ruler has managed to unite all of Skyrim, but the Nord character is one essentially of conflict, and the confederacies never last. The Cyrodilic Empire and later the Septim Empire was able to take advantage of this tendency... - Pocket Guide to the Empire
Maybe you remember Dengeir and Laila, two of your political supporters.
"I'm no man's fool. I know Ulfric Stormcloak's selfish and power-hungry, but he's the devil I know. Does that put it plain enough for you?" - Dengeir
"With the Stormcloaks at his back, Ulfric's poised to rid Skyrim of the Empire's forces and invalidate our involvement with the White-Gold Concordat. Between you and I, I think his motivations are a bit more self-serving. He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne. If he were to be crowned High King, I'm not so certain it would be the golden age his followers expect." - Laila Law-Giver
Jarl Balgruuf is taking action against Giants too
"There's been talk again in the streets. A general fear that the giants may move south, and then... Well, you understand." - Proventus
"Hmm... All right, yes, I see your point. Make the necessary arrangements." - Jarl Baalin
You repeat this so many times, yet it holds no bearing whatsoever. The soldiers you kill are Imperial's, not Nords.
No lmao, most legion troops are Imperials no matter what... If it was purely nord vs nord do you really think they'd randomly generate the race? There'd be no need too..Jarl Balgruuf is taking action against Giants too
"There's been talk again in the streets. A general fear that the giants may move south, and then... Well, you understand." - Proventus
"Hmm... All right, yes, I see your point. Make the necessary arrangements." - Jarl Baalin
They're not killing them, but preparing in case. Giants are protected by the Empire unless they kill innocents.
You repeat this so many times, yet it holds no bearing whatsoever. The soldiers you kill are Imperial's, not Nords.
The soldiers are randomly generated between the selected races. You could play the game and never see a single Nord Legionnaire. You could create a new character and see only Nords.
The point you Stormcloaks fail to grasp, is you've taken one experience and without anything to back it up have claimed they're all Imperials. All Legion guards in cities are Nords.
'They have enlisted our own countrymen to their cause.' - Nords Arise!
"This is what you wanted? Shield brothers and sisters killing each other? Families torn apart? This is the Skyrim you want?!" - Legate Rikke
"It was you who fought your kin who didn't understand our cause, who weren't willing to pay the price of our freedom." - Ulfric
"Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now." - Sybille
"When the Son's of Skyrim would spill their own blood." - Elder Scroll Prophecy
Ok first I'll admit it was wrong of me to say legionnaires aren't fighting for anything, that's not right. What I meant more was that the majority Stormcloaks aren't fighting for the sake of fighting and probably less so than legionnaires, as evidenced by Sophie they are parents
Galmar talks about how they are regular citizens, even Gerdur says she would join if she were younger. The fact Laelette uses joining as her cover when she joins up with movarth successfully further hints that this is a pretty normal thing for normal citizens to do these days.
And the Mede dynasty is not all that different. Same elder council, and name one positive change that happened from the Medes replacing the Septims. Not sure why you dislike Tiber, try to do what he did without any controversies. Would you rather there'd never have been an empire? And slavers, well the precious dunmer you've been defending so much were much more involved in slavery. Sure, not anymore but by the days of Uriel neither were the Septims.
Of course Ulfric is power-hungry, everyone knows that. I support his cause way more than I do him. Tiber was power-hungry, Titus the first was power hungry, the last dragonborn is power hungry. But if the power hungry fella knows what he's doing, thing turn out.
No lmao, most legion troops are Imperials no matter what... If it was purely nord vs nord do you really think they'd randomly generate the race? There'd be no need too..
Yes I know the Legion is racialy diverse, but you said there isn't a legion in Skyrim it's just auxilleries, if that was the case then Bethesda would've made them all Nords.No lmao, most legion troops are Imperials no matter what... If it was purely nord vs nord do you really think they'd randomly generate the race? There'd be no need too..
Actually there is a need, because it shows more races support the Empire. It isn't purely Nord vs Nord, I've never stated such a thing. Though if we get technical, for years it actually was Nord vs Nord. The Stormcloaks were fighting between the other Holds in small skirmishes, years before the Legion stepped in.
The Civil War is Skyrim fighting itself, many Nords on both sides. Cyrodiil and Skyrim are not at war, Ulfric himself states he can't afford all out war with the Cyrodiil.
You come across Imperial, Nord, Breton and Redguard Legionnaires. Also an Altmer and Dunmer Legate.
Bethesda did that for a reason.
Tying into the Legion's versatility is its non-discriminatory policy of recruitment. The Legion recruits individuals of all races and creeds into its ranks and benefits from the diversity of skills they all bring (although men form the vast majority). - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Imperial_Legion
Yes I know the Legion is racialy diverse, but you said there isn't a legion in Skyrim it's just auxilleries, if that was the case then Bethesda would've made them all Nords.No lmao, most legion troops are Imperials no matter what... If it was purely nord vs nord do you really think they'd randomly generate the race? There'd be no need too..
Actually there is a need, because it shows more races support the Empire. It isn't purely Nord vs Nord, I've never stated such a thing. Though if we get technical, for years it actually was Nord vs Nord. The Stormcloaks were fighting between the other Holds in small skirmishes, years before the Legion stepped in.
The Civil War is Skyrim fighting itself, many Nords on both sides. Cyrodiil and Skyrim are not at war, Ulfric himself states he can't afford all out war with the Cyrodiil.
You come across Imperial, Nord, Breton and Redguard Legionnaires. Also an Altmer and Dunmer Legate.
Bethesda did that for a reason.
Tying into the Legion's versatility is its non-discriminatory policy of recruitment. The Legion recruits individuals of all races and creeds into its ranks and benefits from the diversity of skills they all bring (although men form the vast majority). - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Imperial_Legion
The Empire must remain to protect giants. Less Skald have his wish and try drive them from the Pale.
The Thalmor do just hate anyone, if you're not one of them, you're nothing to them. Raijin, a single Thalmor embassy and a prison isn't an invasion. They don't have large numbers in Skyrim.
The Nobles and Jarls put on a show Raijin, anytime they're speaking about lasting peace between the Thalmor and Empire they're being sarcastic, which even the game files mention "Doesn't believe a word of it"
The parties are just the Thalmor being dicks.
"I swear Elenwen holds these parties just to make the Empire look bad. Almost makes me want to join the Stormcloaks."
They don't need protection, they're hidden inside a fortress that has been lost since the Second Era. Unless the Thalmor manages to get the only copy of a book that Esbern has, they won't find it.
Delphine also isn't stupid enough to be followed, and if the Thalmor discovered them. They would need an army to get them out of that fortress, and the Empire stands between them for that in either victory.
The Blades are also against the Greybeards, so I don't think the Nords would be quick to side against the Greybeards.
That alone almost makes me rage quit this thread.
They're in Skyrim because of the White-Gold Concordat, their increased presence is due to the rebellion. (mainly because they're sending supporters flocking towards Ulfric with their large inquisition)
The Thalmor don't get angry, they knew the Empire wouldn't enforce the ban from the get go. They don't care about that, they wanted to plant the seeds for Ulfric's uprising. The Thalmor care about taking over Tamriel, weakening Skyrim and the Empire is the best solution.
Skyrim and the Empire represent the only organized threat against them.
Chances are they've already won.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Mages in Thedas generally dicks ? They need blood phials to keep a track of every single one of em' to make sure they don't cause trouble lol. And after a certain quest in DA:2, you can choose to help the mages yetDamn this debate is getting tiring.
On an unrelated note. Raijin how is Dragon Age? I heard us Mages get some hate in it?
Dragon Age is awesome Yes We mages get a lot of hate in the world of Thedas.