Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
The people (Even the Dunmers) of Windhelm are doing pretty damn good considering the foul and snowy weather conditions.

The people of Windhelm are doing pretty damn good? Yeah, besides living in fear for a killer who stalks the streets. Besides the Argonians being banished and getting paid less than what a "Nord's worth" and the Dunmer being abused and having several issues which Ulfric ignores completely.

Throw in the fact that Windhelm's stores are just about empty, and the Hold's source of lumber is basically abandoned due to poor management on Ulfric's part. Comes when your Military is made up of all your peasant workers who have to get back to their farms and mills at one point.


Roads are unsafe regardless of the war and bandits. You have Bears, Trolls, Wolves, Werewolves, Vampires, Crazy necromancers who kidnaps travelers to conduct their experiments on them, The undead, Rogue mages, Mammoth, Mudcrabs, Sabre Cat, Skeever, Slaughterfish, Falmers and the list goes on and on.

Guards, soldiers and hired mercenaries would deal with those threats. As for slaughterfish... Is it flopping around gasping for air on the road? Mammoths don't walk down your main road, and they're peaceful if you don't stray too close or attack it.

Falmer activity is very recent, as in during the war. Crazy Necromancers keep well away from the main road, normally, though with the war on bodies and people are easy to get your hands on.

Your attempt to blame Ulfric for making the roads unsafe has failed.

You make a very valid point, Skyrim is indeed a harsh land. Except that you hear comments about roads not being safe now or "anymore". Which means the war is to blame for the lack of soldiers and guards to deal with the threats. Also it is mentioned majority of the mercenaries are also tied up in the war.

How do you know this? How do you know that the Thalmor aren't gaining much power? For as long as the Thalmor are financially secured they can buy off any politician any given day or night.

Because the Thalmor are going to such extreme lengths to make the Empire look as bad as possible. They needed to stir up a Civil War to buy themselves time. Buy off a politician, do you not understand how the Empire works? You could buy a hundred politicians, and not even be able to do much. You can bribe them to act in your favor, get them to lessen your taxes or maybe ignore something you're about to do... That is just common Imperial politics, Septim Emperors did that.

"Of course not. One does not gather the most important men and women of Skyrim and then serve them cheap ale and stale bread. This is only a taste of the benefits that accrue to those that align themselves with Thalmor interests." -Elenwen

"This gathering is nothing more than a boast. The Thalmor are reminding us that we're at their beck and call." - Balgruuf

Do you not think that Elenwen has the capability playing the game of politics? It is her sole job to deal with politicians.

It is her sole job to continue to make the Empire look bad, and irritate the nobility with her constant summons. They won't refuse to go, because the current peace is needed.

That is a very good advice, DrunkenMage.... about you needing to make sacrifices for others.

The Empire is Skyrim, Cyrodiil and High Rock. Each sacrifice made is not others making the sacrifice alone, it is the Empire.

The Empire could get a good dose of that considering the fact that they could of very well made a sacrifices by handing over Skyrim to the Nord people

I'm sorry, please show me where Skyrim is ruled by any non-Nords?

with a treaty agreement

Skyrim didn't want to leave the Empire. Stormcloaks =/= Nords/Skyrim.

so that the Talos worshipers would have a safe haven to openly worship Talos. Just look at how many Imperial/Stormcloak soldiers would of been spared, and that the civil war would cease to exist.

Except Ulfric didn't choose a peaceful route did he? Not once did Ulfric directly ask his King to go for independence, not once did Ulfric try for a diplomatic solution for a peaceful removal from the Empire.

Yet you believe the Empire should have just removed Skyrim for what could happen? When you kill the symbol of the Empire in Skyrim, do you expect a bunch of diplomats and some gift baskets?

You talk about treaties, yet Ulfric won't speak with the Empire unless they leave unconditionally. No agreements, no pacts. The only reason Ulfric even spoke with Tullius was because Dragons were bringing about the end of the world and the Dragonborn needed time. That was just for a temporary truce, yet you make out Ulfric would go for something more.

How many lives would be spared if you simply lay down your arms, and open a diplomatic channel to the Empire. You offered violence, and except rewards.

Yes I know. The Empire was too weak to successfully win the war against the Amdleri Dominioin, and so they were forced to sign a treaty (WGC) to give their elven masters even more power over them ;)

Yet you plan to invade the Aldmeri Dominion with even a smaller force than the Empire. Skyrim is the weakest province in Tamriel because of that Civil War.


So what you're telling me that people should fear the Thalmor Because of the WGC?

Not because of the WGC. People should fear and worry about the Thalmor, because of what they can do. The Blades didn't fear the Thalmor, thought they could easily handle them. They were wiped out.

Even Ulfric Stormcloak is smart to fear Thalmor attention.

That they should keep something that they're proud of a secret? No that doesn't work that way.

You think the Empire just banned Talos because they didn't care, because they weren't proud of their God Emperor?

They should keep it quiet for the time being, because it was a sacrifice that had to be made in order to survive and get ready for another war.

Just because the Empire coward down to the Thalmor doesn't mean that everyone else should should to.

You think the Empire was being a coward when they signed a temporary peace treaty in order to rebuild and rearm for a second war? No. What the Empire did took courage, for them to outlaw Talos worship in order for thousands to live and give the next generation time to rebuild and finish the fight.

Empire could have just been selfish, said no, get destroyed and instead of an poorly enforced ban and Talos worshippers getting dragged away if caught... You can just have large scale slaughter, whole villages in a mass grave.

When you fear the government you have tyranny, and with tyranny a revolution is in hand.

It isn't the Government they fear.

This is what Ulfric is fighting for after all.

Ulfric is fighting for the throne, had he really cared, fighting this war would have been his very last resort. It was his first. You speak of revolutions and tyranny... You just replace one tyrant with another, you're not in a revolution, you're part of a military coup. Where your leader is voted into being your King at the tip of swords.

People should have the right to openly worship whatever damn god that they pleased, and not fear that they're going to be snatched away, and sent to a prison or worst... executed.

Haha, do you honestly believe the Thalmor need a piece of paper with 'White-Gold Concordat' on it to kidnap people, torture them and execute them?

The Empire created tyranny in Skyrim and Ulfric is fighting to restore order.

No. The Empire just gave that tyranny a face, Ulfric isn't fighting for order... You Stormcloaks are fighting for an illusion. You think pushing out the Empire makes the Thalmor go away? They just stop wearing their coats, then still kidnapping, torturing and murdering in the shadows. While you lot fall back into your happy illusion and say "Probably bandits or wild animals took them".

Not like the Nords are very investigative.

How do you know that Skyrim wasn't weak under Torygg rulings? Perhaps Skyrim was strong under Istlod , but not under Torygg.

1) They weren't having/didn't have a Civil War that has killed thousands of fighting men.

2) All of the Holds weren't poor from funding a Civil War.

3) Merchants were coming from all over, trading in and out of Skyrim.

People of his court and throughout his kingdom had zero respect for him as of matter of fact. If Skyrim was at it's prime under Torygg his court and his subordinates would of properly address him as a MAN , and not as a BOY. Calling your former King a boy is such an utter insult. You might as well call him a pl***ty king.

No. They're not calling him "boy" because he was a plops King. In a nation of warriors, with Jarls who are veterans of many conflicts and battles. Why would they call him boy? Because he was new, because he hasn't fought in a war or battle. This is a culture where you once had to kill an ice-wraith to even become a citizen. Or in the case of certain Nords, to become a man.

To be considered a "man" would really depend on which area of Skyrim. Some would accept fighting and proving yourself in a battle. Others... you're not a man unless you wander out into the wilderness for a couple of weeks and go kill an ice-wraith in some display of manliness.
 
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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
"The Stormcloaks are named after Ulfric. He's a bad man, but don't tell the soldiers that." - Hrefna, Darkwater Crossing

Now that is a true citizen of Eastmarch, only a child and can see the lies of Ulfric.
 
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tesrocks42

Member
Ok so I completely agree that talos worship should be legal and that nords should rule over skyrim. However these damn stormcloaks want something else entirely. Their entire reason for fighting the imperial is flawed. If they don't like the treaty and are always complaining about the elves shouldn't they be taking a stand against the thalmor I mean the imperial never even did anything wrong. Also like alvor and others have said skyrim has always belonged to the empire and this rebellion to take back what's theirs is utter bull crap. And if they do take back skyrim what then. Then they are going to have to deal with the thalmor as well as the full imperial army. Not to mention the horrible state inside of skyrim will be. Take windhelm. The place where all the elves are forced into a trash heap known as the grey quarter and treated as scum and the argonians aren't even allowed In the city and are treated like slaves. Not to mention the power hungry selfish idiotic ulfric stormcloak (with his axe of cowardice). Now take that city and spread it all over skyrim. Is that what you want an entire country that's oppressive racist and ruled by the biggest ass in all of skyrim. That is why the stormcloaks are wrong
 

tesrocks42

Member
Ok so I completely agree that talos worship should be legal and that nords should rule over skyrim. However these damn stormcloaks want something else entirely. Their entire reason for fighting the imperial is flawed. If they don't like the treaty and are always complaining about the elves shouldn't they be taking a stand against the thalmor I mean the imperial never even did anything wrong. Also like alvor and others have said skyrim has always belonged to the empire and this rebellion to take back what's theirs is utter bull crap. And if they do take back skyrim what then. Then they are going to have to deal with the thalmor as well as the full imperial army. Not to mention the horrible state inside of skyrim will be. Take windhelm. The place where all the elves are forced into a trash heap known as the grey quarter and treated as scum and the argonians aren't even allowed In the city and are treated like slaves. Not to mention the power hungry selfish idiotic ulfric stormcloak (with his axe of cowardice). Now take that city and spread it all over skyrim. Is that what you want an entire country that's oppressive racist and ruled by the biggest ass in all of skyrim. That is why the stormcloaks are wrong


its your uncle sanguine
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
Was not reminding anyone of anything. Just trying to lighten this dull thread up
WHY CAN'T WE LET THIS THREAD DIE!? We're getting nowhere with this. Everyone's either too stubborn or too naive to change their views and I'm sick of all the dead alerts. It's driving me fluffing mad!
pvt-pyle-suicide-o.gif
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Was not reminding anyone of anything. Just trying to lighten this dull thread up
WHY CAN'T WE LET THIS THREAD DIE!? We're getting nowhere with this. Everyone's either too stubborn or too naive to change their views and I'm sick of all the dead alerts. It's driving me fluffing mad!
View attachment 39761

Lol, funny. If you do not like the alerts, there is a button to turn that off for the thread. I use it all the time.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
Was not reminding anyone of anything. Just trying to lighten this dull thread up
WHY CAN'T WE LET THIS THREAD DIE!? We're getting nowhere with this. Everyone's either too stubborn or too naive to change their views and I'm sick of all the dead alerts. It's driving me fluffing mad!
View attachment 39761

Lol, funny. If you do not like the alerts, there is a button to turn that off for the thread. I use it all the time.
Yeah, I know, I just needed something to convince me people, So I broke out the Pvt. Pyle Suicide gif.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Hillevi: "What is it Ulfric's always saying... "On my honor as a Nord, I swear it."" (Laughter).
Nilsine: "So serious!" (Laughter)

Ulfric going on about being a Nord is starting to become a running joke in Windhelm.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Drukenmage post is making me get angry... and do you know what happens when I get this way?

I install Skyrim on my brand new computer, create a Nord character, and start beating the plops outta the Imperials with my bare fist, and naked on top it off.


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Look at what you made me do Drunkenmage.
 

General Charles Xander

General of the 11th Imperial Legion
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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Drukenmage post is making me get angry... and do you know what happens when I get this way?

I install Skyrim on my brand new computer, create a Nord character, and start beating the pl*** outta the Imperials with my bare fist, and naked on top it off.


tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho1_1280.png

tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho2_1280.png

tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho3_1280.png

tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho4_1280.png


Look at what you made me do Drunkenmage.

When you get angry you start taking photos of muscled, naked, sweaty men, beating up on another man who is wearing a skirt?
 

General Charles Xander

General of the 11th Imperial Legion
Drukenmage post is making me get angry... and do you know what happens when I get this way?

I install Skyrim on my brand new computer, create a Nord character, and start beating the pl*** outta the Imperials with my bare fist, and naked on top it off.


tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho1_1280.png

tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho2_1280.png

tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho3_1280.png

tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho4_1280.png


Look at what you made me do Drunkenmage.

When you get angry you start taking photos of muscled, naked, sweaty men, beating up on another man who is wearing a skirt?
I think he's compensating for something...@-@
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Drukenmage post is making me get angry... and do you know what happens when I get this way?

I install Skyrim on my brand new computer, create a Nord character, and start beating the pl*** outta the Imperials with my bare fist, and naked on top it off.


tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho1_1280.png

tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho2_1280.png

tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho3_1280.png

tumblr_nkaa21Ap271rhh90ho4_1280.png


Look at what you made me do Drunkenmage.

When you get angry you start taking photos of muscled, naked, sweaty men, beating up on another man who is wearing a skirt?
I think he's compensating for something...@-@

He'll be joining the inner circle with Stone-Fist, Thrice-Pierced & Wet-Pommel.

Ulfric: "Today we welcome Troll-Thruster into our ranks :oops:"
 

General Charles Xander

General of the 11th Imperial Legion

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
Hillevi: "What is it Ulfric's always saying... "On my honor as a Nord, I swear it."" (Laughter).
Nilsine: "So serious!" (Laughter)

Ulfric going on about being a Nord is starting to become a running joke in Windhelm.

"All of those rambling speeches about the Empire this, and the Empire that.." -Sayma

I emphasize again Ulfric is a politician, I don't get why when the Empire pulls this sort of stuff everyone's like "wow, what strategic genius!"
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Pfft, just a Nord in a tantrum.

Nah its the Nordic way of keeping their bitches in check... to keep them in line by letting them know their place in the packing order.

Just like all of the Stormcloaks? xD

Don't be hating us Stormcloaks... Were just letting you Imperials know who wears the kings pants in Skyrim that's all.

Ulfric.jpg

Were just finishing up a game that you guys started, and quite obviously failed :)

tumblr_m3d8pbgOiX1qengqso1_500.jpg


Now drop them breeches and squeal like a pig that you Imperials are. Time to teach you Imperials a lesson of domination.

When you get angry you start taking photos of muscled, naked, sweaty men, beating up on another man who is wearing a skirt?

I was hoping that one of them would give me an Angelina Jolie pose. That's why I get all muscled up, naked, and sweaty. When they don't comply I beat the plops outta them like a little bitch that they are.
tumblr_m3puxlNQ2u1r24a40o1_500.png
 

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
Anyways I thought now may be a good time to just put out there why I'm a Stormcloak.

After considering all the sources from the game I could, there just seems to be a real difference nowadays between Skyrim and the Empire. A philosophical one. Seriously, a lot of Nords probably would've sooner charged the Aldmeri lines with nothing but a butter knife than surrender. Let alone give up Talos.

It seems like Skyrim and the Empire are just out of touch too. It sounds like the Empire really underestimated how important Talos was to them. Just the fact they were willing to talk about outlawing it was probably a shock to the Nords. Then the fact that when war finally does break out you send a general and legates with hardly any respect or knowledge of the land to deal with a monumental turning point for the Nordic people sort of seals the deal for me. A lot of Tamriel will need rebuilding in the years to come, and I don't see Skyrim being a priority for the Empire when that time comes based on what I saw from them in Skyrim.

The entire game spends a great deal of time selling you on the Nordic way of life and their traditions, and then to have the big, sophisticated Imperial machine come along and stamp what's trying so hard to emulate that into the mud simply isnt something I like.

I tried my best to see this from the point of view of an average Skyrim citizen, and you see so many of those types of people in the Stormcloaks. A while back I was feeling Imperial and did a play through with them, and every Stormcloak I cut down made me sick to my stomach. They aren't fighting because they hate outsiders, or want to be High King. They want to see their god restored, they want to see their people's pride restored, and they want to see their home ruled their way. Are they going about it the best way? Maybe not, but it's their home, so it's their choice.

Ulfric obviously has his issues. But he's certainly not evil. He also certainly isn't a fool. No matter what way you look at it, he took on the Empire, no easy task, and he really gives them a run for their money. He is very cautious about his enemies. He worries about Cyrodiil beginning an all out war with him, he worries about the Dominion turning greater attention to them. He's keeping an eye on the Grey Quarter, which suggests to me he does have plans to keep the Dunmer happy. I've really studied his interactions with the player, and he seems like a genuine man. He has gone through horrible things in his past, and he doesn't want any more of his people to face the same things. He does want what he believes is best for Skyrim.

The leader and timing of the rebellion aren't perfect, but who is a perfect leader? When is the perfect timing? Every crop in the province could fail tomorrow. Sheo could throw a Baar Dau Skyrim's way anytime. But If this rebellion fails, Skyrim will never see another chance at independence. And with so many nations already breaking off from the Empire, if any could handle herself it would be the people of Skyrim.
 

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