Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[TheQahnaarin]

If I wanted heavy armor, I am looking for an armor that protects me from blows when I am hit, as I would not be wanting to be mobile. If I wanted mobility, imperial heavy armor is not the armor I want. It is a weird hybrid of the two that does not really mash the two perfectly. It is made out of steel, but it is only as protective as the player can move.

Imperial armor does protect you. It isn't simply the armor, but skill and training that also comes into play. If you have easier foot work, being able to maintain balance which is very important in sword fighting, you will win against someone in thick plate armor with limited mobility.

The armor you're thinking, is better suited for horse back. You can't march long distances in it, the added weight would tire you out before you even came into contact with the enemy. You're sweating and being cooked in this tin can.

Good luck getting up if you're knocked down in this full metal suit.

It isn't simply about mobility, you need the extra freedom in melee combat. It isn't a weird hybrid, it is made out of steel and leather. IYou're protected, but you're also able to actually reach the enemy on foot without falling down cause you're tired half way.

I don't know why you keep trying to come up with an argument about how it can't handle climate, it is poor for combat or it is just weird. If you stuck with your "I think it is girly" there wouldn't be this silly debate.

Are you trying to make me laugh? Because that is the only way you will be able to kill me if I am just as good a fighter as you.

Are you trying to make everyone else laugh? Oblivion armor isn't practical for foot soldiers, that game was very medieval/knightly. The only reason they can run around in it is because it is a game. Otherwise you would need a horse to get you around, cause you aren't running far.

Imperial armor is fine, nothing wrong with it. For the purpose of this armor, it does exactly what is required. Provides protection and you're able to do long marches in it.

Lol it's been a while sense I've been on this one and we're on to uniforms now?

Imperial heavy armor obviously wouldn't be very mobile but it's not supposed to be but it looks like it would stop a blow, stats disregarded because it's way to easy to obtain for it to be a good armor in game.
The light version looks kinda chilly to me, I live in Canada so trust me you'd be miserable sitting around at a camp up in the Pale or Winterhold wearing that.

Bethesda never got around to making heavy Stormcloak gear (I think it's safe to assume they have it, lore wise) but what they have looks functional. I'd probably ditch the guard helmet straight away because I can't imagine seeing let alone fighting in that.

 

[Jeremius]

Lol it's been a while sense I've been on this one and we're on to uniforms now?

Imperial heavy armor obviously wouldn't be very mobile but it's not supposed to be but it looks like it would stop a blow, stats disregarded because it's way to easy to obtain for it to be a good armor in game.
The light version looks kinda chilly to me, I live in Canada so trust me you'd be miserable sitting around at a camp up in the Pale or Winterhold wearing that.

Bethesda never got around to making heavy Stormcloak gear (I think it's safe to assume they have it, lore wise) but what they have looks functional. I'd probably ditch the guard helmet straight away because I can't imagine seeing let alone fighting in that.

Not to mention that on a realistic standpoint, your only defense in a real fight is either speed or the shield, due to realistic combat not being what you see in Skyrim.

If this were realistic, Elven and Glass armor would be the best. Not only is it lighter than most heavy armors, but they actually look like they will stop a sword from taking out your sword arm. Imperial armor, not so much

 

[DrunkenMage]

Lol it's been a while sense I've been on this one and we're on to uniforms now?

Oddly enough, yes.

Imperial heavy armor obviously wouldn't be very mobile but it's not supposed to be but it looks like it would stop a blow, stats disregarded because it's way to easy to obtain for it to be a good armor in game.

It is more mobile than full plate head to toe. Imperial heavy armor is a mix of plate, chainmail and leather. The skirt itself is what provides added mobility in foot work. So if you're marching you're not as restricted as you would be in plate greaves. The type of armor he was thinking of is far better suited for horse back.

It would stop a blow, but Legion tactics rely on formations than one on one combat.

The light version looks kinda chilly to me, I live in Canada so trust me you'd be miserable sitting around at a camp up in the Pale or Winterhold wearing that.

Game wise, yeah. But they'd have a cloak, and thicker fabric under the armor.

Bethesda never got around to making heavy Stormcloak gear (I think it's safe to assume they have it, lore wise) but what they have looks functional. I'd probably ditch the guard helmet straight away because I can't imagine seeing let alone fighting in that.

Stormcloaks are a rebellion, I doubt they would have the resources required to make lots of heavy armor. Lore wise it is very fitting how they're dressed, they make use of hides which is easy to get. Use it for their armor and tents. The Stormcloaks currently come off as a more skirmish type force, hit and run tactics. They talk about how the Legion clanks like a kitchen, and gleam like fresh snow on march. That line wouldn't make much sense if the Stormcloaks were supposed to have heavy armor too.

They're also not rich by any means, their gear is often mismatched. You see them with iron, steel, hide etc.

To use heavy armor, fight in it, move about, requires training. You would see heavy armored soldiers some time after the rebellion, when they have the time to train soldiers and the resources to make heavy armor on a larger scale.

 

[TheQahnaarin]

Lol it's been a while sense I've been on this one and we're on to uniforms now?

Oddly enough, yes.

Imperial heavy armor obviously wouldn't be very mobile but it's not supposed to be but it looks like it would stop a blow, stats disregarded because it's way to easy to obtain for it to be a good armor in game.

It is more mobile than full plate head to toe. Imperial heavy armor is a mix of plate, chainmail and leather. The skirt itself is what provides added mobility in foot work. So if you're marching you're not as restricted as you would be in plate greaves. The type of armor he was thinking of is far better suited for horse back.

It would stop a blow, but Legion tactics rely on formations than one on one combat.

The light version looks kinda chilly to me, I live in Canada so trust me you'd be miserable sitting around at a camp up in the Pale or Winterhold wearing that.

Game wise, yeah. But they'd have a cloak, and thicker fabric under the armor.

Bethesda never got around to making heavy Stormcloak gear (I think it's safe to assume they have it, lore wise) but what they have looks functional. I'd probably ditch the guard helmet straight away because I can't imagine seeing let alone fighting in that.

Stormcloaks are a rebellion, I doubt they would have the resources required to make lots of heavy armor. Lore wise it is very fitting how they're dressed, they make use of hides which is easy to get. Use it for their armor and tents. The Stormcloaks currently come off as a more skirmish type force, hit and run tactics. They talk about how the Legion clanks like a kitchen, and gleam like fresh snow on march. That line wouldn't make much sense if the Stormcloaks were supposed to have heavy armor too.

They're also not rich by any means, their gear is often mismatched. You see them with iron, steel, hide etc.

To use heavy armor, fight in it, move about, requires training. You would see heavy armored soldiers some time after the rebellion, when they have the time to train soldiers and the resources to make heavy armor on a larger scale.

Yeah Stormcloaks focus more on guerrilla-warfare, in a way it's sort like the Vietnam war. I suppose the Stormcloaks don't have tons to spend but I'd think that there be large weapons/armor/supplies budget. Eastmarch, the Rift and the Pale seem mineral rich, and Windhelm and Riften have what seems to be like 2 of Skyrim's better smiths. Plus you've got people like Hermir, who would probably work for free if Ulfric asked. I think if they won or they had to adapt for whatever reason they could make heavy armor.

While I'm making IRL comparisons, on some forum or comment section I saw someone probably make the best Skyrim civil war comparison yet, Finland vs the Soviet Union during WWII. Way out matched independent-favouring nation, against a Red army/legion, and the rebels fight to preserve a way of life, but at the same time are inadvertently aiding the way more evil and oppressive faction down south.

 

[Jeremius]

@DrunkenMage: In a realistic swordfight, the Imperial armor is not protecting you. Your training and speed are. The better and faster you are at parrying a blow, the less need for protection. For protection, elven and glass armors are more logical than Imperial armor.

I have been watching some guy named Skallagrim on Youtube. Videogame combat (Especially in TES games) is notoriously unrealistic. Imperial Armor may look protective, but only if someone was fighting game-style. A realistic expert sword fighter would go right after your unprotected arms, and unless you are faster than your opponent, that imperial armor is realistically ineffective.

Here is a suit of armor I would wear if I was an Imperial Soldier:

This looks quite realistic, and has more protection for the arms, which would be enough to get me to stop hating on the emasculating look of Imperial armor.

 

[LegateFasendil]

@DrunkenMage: In a realistic swordfight, the Imperial armor is not protecting you. Your training and speed are. The better and faster you are at parrying a blow, the less need for protection. For protection, elven and glass armors are more logical than Imperial armor.

I have been watching some guy named Skallagrim on Youtube. Videogame combat (Especially in TES games) is notoriously unrealistic. Imperial Armor may look protective, but only if someone was fighting game-style. A realistic expert sword fighter would go right after your unprotected arms, and unless you are faster than your opponent, that imperial armor is realistically ineffective.

Here is a suit of armor I would wear if I was an Imperial Soldier:

This looks quite realistic, and has more protection for the arms, which would be enough to get me to stop hating on the emasculating look of Imperial armor.

OMG Adobe Flash player just totally changed the page while I was typing grrrrr.

Your argument is not bad but just because Imperial armor is not the best, according to you, does not mean it doesn't win, according to the Empire.

Imperials armor fits their power-play tactics w/ large numbers of Legions + Shield tricks.

Elven and Glass armor fits their cloak & dagger tactics w/ smaller numbers of specialized soldiers who deal in special tactics.

The Elven gear is better because they can afford for it to be better w/ smaller armies. The concept of quality synergizes well with a smaller force.

Imperial armor is designed for a larger force of shield-clad troops in formation to crush the smaller armies. The Imperials simply don't need all this other stuff, their tactics is their defense. As opposed to the Elves, who can't afford to loose anyone.

 

[Jeremius]

@DrunkenMage: In a realistic swordfight, the Imperial armor is not protecting you. Your training and speed are. The better and faster you are at parrying a blow, the less need for protection. For protection, elven and glass armors are more logical than Imperial armor.

I have been watching some guy named Skallagrim on Youtube. Videogame combat (Especially in TES games) is notoriously unrealistic. Imperial Armor may look protective, but only if someone was fighting game-style. A realistic expert sword fighter would go right after your unprotected arms, and unless you are faster than your opponent, that imperial armor is realistically ineffective.

Here is a suit of armor I would wear if I was an Imperial Soldier:

This looks quite realistic, and has more protection for the arms, which would be enough to get me to stop hating on the emasculating look of Imperial armor.

OMG Adobe Flash player just totally changed the page while I was typing grrrrr.

Your argument is not bad but just because Imperial armor is not the best, according to you, does not mean it doesn't win, according to the Empire.

Imperials armor fits their power-play tactics w/ large numbers of Legions + Shield tricks.

Elven and Glass armor fits their cloak & dagger tactics w/ smaller numbers of specialized soldiers who deal in special tactics.

The Elven gear is better because they can afford for it to be better w/ smaller armies. The concept of quality synergizes well with a smaller force.

Imperial armor is designed for a larger force of shield-clad troops in formation to crush the smaller armies. The Imperials simply don't need all this other stuff, their tactics is their defense. As opposed to the Elves, who can't afford to loose anyone.

At least make it look more practical/realistic. That extra stuff on the "shoulders" will likely do nothing in the long run. As I said with the byzantine armor pic, The arm protection would work wonders for me personally. Why? Because in a realistic fight, the imperial armor just broadcasts where I should be striking at. Just because it is made for large groups, does not mean it is a good idea to wear, when there are better armors out there.

Imperial Armor (heavy version) looks like someone took a shirt and a leather skirt, put some metal on it, and called it good. It does not even look like roman-inspired armor. For one, I do not think the Romans had steel.

 

[Raijin]

@DrunkenMage: In a realistic swordfight, the Imperial armor is not protecting you. Your training and speed are. The better and faster you are at parrying a blow, the less need for protection. For protection, elven and glass armors are more logical than Imperial armor.

I have been watching some guy named Skallagrim on Youtube. Videogame combat (Especially in TES games) is notoriously unrealistic. Imperial Armor may look protective, but only if someone was fighting game-style. A realistic expert sword fighter would go right after your unprotected arms, and unless you are faster than your opponent, that imperial armor is realistically ineffective.

Here is a suit of armor I would wear if I was an Imperial Soldier:

This looks quite realistic, and has more protection for the arms, which would be enough to get me to stop hating on the emasculating look of Imperial armor.

That armor looks outrageously ridiculous. I would become a deserter if my Emperor forced me to wear something like that on the battlefield. No offense

I find this armor to be rather attractive looking..

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

That armor looks outrageously ridiculous. I would become a deserter if my Emperor forced me to wear something like that on the battlefield. No offense

I find this armor to be rather attractive looking..

I find the Imperial armor in-game to be a bit bleh. Maybe it is just me, but I find the idea of the Empire making armor look like it is scaled, or at least not a giant hunk of metal on top of a piece of cloth that cannot protect you for the life of you, sounds much better.

I like the idea, but the armor itself needs to be fixed. Make the chest piece itself actually look like it covers the torso, raise the shoulders up a bit (at least make it look like more than one piece, as well as remove that useless ridge as it does nothing if you properly can protect yourself), and finally make the "leg armor" look like what it should be, a belt with little strips separated with a gap. all that would make it look realistic and still function like it should.

 

[Dropjaw23]

The Imperial armor is real simple because the Empire has (or had at least) a LOT of troops to armor and I think its being mass produced sooooo.... thats why it covers the parts that a shield won't cover and thats how modern armies do it now so im assuming the empire got the cheapest and simplest armor that actually works just a thought.

 

[LegateFasendil]

​

Hmmm. I dunno about this now. Seems like Imperial armor could hold it's own, even the Skyrim version(s). Notice how strong the 'skirt' section is. In absence of Greaves, that's your only real solution. I dunno all of the sudden that Skyrim Imperial armor is looking goood. And the ESO Imperial flavor is just as good as the Elven version(s).

 

[DrunkenMage]

@DrunkenMage: In a realistic swordfight, the Imperial armor is not protecting you. Your training and speed are. The better and faster you are at parrying a blow, the less need for protection. For protection, elven and glass armors are more logical than Imperial armor.

It provides the right amount of protection. If it didn't, then the Empire would not have been able to conquer Tamriel. Lore wise, the Imperial Legion in TES is the most effective fighting force, has great training and tactics.

The Legion use shortswords, for stabbing inbetween gaps of their formation.

Elven and glass armors are not more logical. Those require very talented smiths, and the costs would be large. By your logic, one could simply argue they should use Daedric and Ebony. Steel is the logical choice, easy to work with and easy to get your hands on them.

Imperial Armor may look protective, but only if someone was fighting game-style. A realistic expert sword fighter would go right after your unprotected arms, and unless you are faster than your opponent, that imperial armor is realistically ineffective.

An expert sword fighter could attack the gaps in every armor. So your point is moot. The Legion rely on formations and numbers, they don't do things one on one. Obviously a Legionary is no match for an expert sword fighter in single combat. The armor is for infantry. Besides, it isn't simply "go for the arms" they have a shield, and while they're trying to kill you, it is hard to hit a small area.

Your logic is somewhat flawed. "Imperial armor can't stop an expert sword fighter, so it is ineffective and unrealistic" no armor would stop an expert sword fighter.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

The whole armor debate is pointless. I do not think of the Imperial Armors as armor at all, but a uniform for the imperial soldier to separate them from the rest of the moronic rabble in Skyrim. My idea of armor is as follows:

• Light: Hide, Fur, Leather, Elven, Scaled, Glass, Dragonscale
• Heavy: Iron, Steel, Dwarven, Orcish, Ebony, Daedric, Nordic carved, dragonplate
• Both: Stalhrim (misspelled?)
• Not armors/uniforms: Wolf, Thieves Guild, Shrouded, Imperial, Guard

 

[General Charles Xander]

Imperial armor is designed to be easy, affordable and efficient.
Plate armor is designed to prevent stabbing while chain mail is designed to prevent cutting and slashing, both are implemented within the Imperial set. If that wasn't enough they added leather, which can both trap heat in cold environments and provide an extra layer of protection that could be the difference between life and death.

All of this while also maintaining speed and maneuverability makes this (IMO) one of the best armor's to equip an army with. This is why the Empire utilizes this. Glass and Ebony armor doesn't hurt, but it is to rare and expensive to outfit an entire Legion with it, let alone an army. What caused more death in The Great War do you think? Armor efficiency? Or deadly tactics? My point is that why would you need to change something that is easy to acquire and defensive?

Just my 2 cents.

 

[DrunkenMage]

My point is that why would you need to change something that is easy to acquire and defensive?

If you go back a page or two. Past all the bs about it being unrealistic, unable to handle climate, unable to defend against attack and all that crap.

You will see the real reason he is against it is "Too girly"

 

[DrunkenMage]

That armor looks outrageously ridiculous. I would become a deserter if my Emperor forced me to wear something like that on the battlefield. No offense

I find this armor to be rather attractive looking..

This is what it would look like in the lore. It would be hard hitting the arms once they're behind a shield and sword facing towards the enemy. You see how the shoulders stick out a bit? You would have to hit at an angle, straight down would deflect off the armor. The parts at the neck also, need to come at an angle to hit the flesh.

The armor design is quite efficient. Not fancy by any means, but attractive in a simplistic way.

 

[General Charles Xander]

My point is that why would you need to change something that is easy to acquire and defensive?

If you go back a page or two. Past all the bs about it being unrealistic, unable to handle climate, unable to defend against attack and all that crap.

You will see the real reason he is against it is "Too girly"

Actually, that argument has been going since around page 260 or so.
If Docta Corvina was in here, she would be yelling "KILTS"!!!
Besides, back then it wasn't viewed as "girly". Saying so, to me, is just being selfish. :/

 

[General Charles Xander]

That armor looks outrageously ridiculous. I would become a deserter if my Emperor forced me to wear something like that on the battlefield. No offense

I find this armor to be rather attractive looking..

This is what it would look like in the lore. It would be hard hitting the arms once they're behind a shield and sword facing towards the enemy. You see how the shoulders stick out a bit? You would have to hit at an angle, straight down would deflect off the armor. The parts at the neck also, need to come at an angle to hit the flesh.

The armor design is quite efficient. Not fancy by any means, but attractive in a simplistic way.

In old Roman scriptures, it's stated that a one-on-one would take up to 2 minutes. With both soldiers having their shields, none can really hit each other until one essentially "retreats". In that case, the shield is lowered and the back is exposed leaving an opening. This is why an entire legion would be flogged if a single soldier would run away, because retreat meant almost a certain death. That is why the Romans were taught that retreat is not an option.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Actually, that argument has been going since around page 260 or so.
If Docta Corvina was in here, she would be yelling "KILTS"!!!
Besides, back then it wasn't viewed as "girly". Saying so, to me, is just being selfish. :/

It is just being stupid.

 

[General Charles Xander]

Actually, that argument has been going since around page 260 or so.
If Docta Corvina was in here, she would be yelling "KILTS"!!!
Besides, back then it wasn't viewed as "girly". Saying so, to me, is just being selfish. :/

It is just being stupid.

And grasping for straws...