Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[General Charles Xander]

General Tullius kept his soldiers out of Whiterun and its hold. Ulfric was already planning a preemptive strike against the city. Also as I previously stated, there's no way for certain to know if he even did lie. Even so, it is highly unlikely that he did due to his previously failed attempts. Balgruuf did what was best for Whiterun and only for Whiterun. He accepted the Legions help yes, but he does not take kindly to it. All in all Balgruuf made the right decision regardless of his intentions.

 

[Raijin]

What? The Great War was thirty years ago and Alduin only returned during 4E 201. He can't eat the souls inside. The Civil War sustains him, makes him more stronger because it is a large supply of souls.

Do you honestly believe that all of the souls who go to Sovngarde ALL goes to Hall of Valor where they fest with Shor? You must pass Tsun's warrior test to determine if you have that right to enter the Hall of Valor. Those who fail do not enter. Tsun gave no special treatment to the Dragonborn as he initiated the test to see if he was worthy to cross the bridge and enter.

Alduin doesn't even figure out yoiu're Dragonborn until you come across him waking up another Dragon with Delphine. Then he has a conversation with you.

Yes, I do believe Alduin cares about the Civil War. Because it is part of the prophecy to what allows him to end the world, "When the sons of Skyrim would spill their own blood"

The war is sending him the souls he needs to gather strength.

Alduin doesn't give a damn about the civil war. He's not a Thalmor agent who is out there encouraging both the Imperials and the Stormcloaks to fight against each other. Hes just another classified monster who is instinctually causing mayhem in Skyrim. They don't call him the "world eater" for nothing. He flew over Heglan and saw a bunch of petty mortals, and decided that he wanted to kill them all. It has nothing to do with caring for the civil war.

Seriously? Is that how you work your way around arguments. "He's just depressed, he's just annoyed" therefor the loremaster of the Blades who has a lot of knowledge about Alduin is wrong, and Ulfric who is now dead and understands what is happening in the spirit world is actually just depressed and is talking pl***?

How do you draw these conclusions?

Yes I'm serious. Ulfric just been defeated and is grieving over losing the battle. Have you ever been in a psychical altercation where you were beaten up in front of everyone, and you temporary lose your sense of pride? Especially when your girlfriend just watched you get the plops kick out of you? Why would you listen to someone who is currently in this stage of mind? I wouldn't. I would only listen to someone who is clear in the head. As far as Esbern goes... he maybe the lore master of the blades, but he knows nothing of Sovngarde.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000318fe
According to the data Esbern has been known for raving; incoherent talk. I still believe that when he fired out the following quote:

"Even now, he devours the souls of your fallen comrades! He grows more powerful with every soldier slain in your pointless war!" - Esbern

It was only meant to tell the Imperials and the Stormcloaks to STFU in a polite way.

Theirs trillions and billions of souls in Sovngarde, and their not all inside Hall of Valor. A Nord dies every single day from a bandit attack, Forwarn attack, bears,trolls, ice wraths,etc. The civil war souls is not only on Alduins menu.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Do you honestly believe that all of the souls who go to Sovngarde ALL goes to Hall of Valor where they fest with Shor? You must pass Tsun's warrior test to determine if you have that right to enter the Hall of Valor. Those who fail do not enter. Tsun gave no special treatment to the Dragonborn as he initiated the test to see if he was worthy to cross the bridge and enter.

Those who fail would not linger in Sovngarde, their soul would be recycled. Not every Nordic soul goes to Sovngarde, only those who face death without fear or were extremely legendary in life.

Alduin doesn't give a damn about the civil war. He's not a Thalmor agent who is out there encouraging both the Imperials and the Stormcloaks to fight against each other. Hes just another classified monster who is instinctually causing mayhem in Skyrim. They don't call him the "world eater" for nothing. He flew over Heglan and saw a bunch of petty mortals, and decided that he wanted to kill them all. It has nothing to do with caring for the civil war.

So Alduin, who was only released due to the Civil War. That it was part of the prophecy, which is even mentioned and during the main quest that the Civil War is shown be tied with Alduin. Even with all that, the civil war has nothing to do with feeding him souls.

And he's a 'monster' who is just doing things by instinct? Right.

In Helgen if you stand around, Alduin actually goes on about eating their souls in Sovngarde and that they will feed his power.

Yes I'm serious. Ulfric just been defeated and is grieving over losing the battle. Have you ever been in a psychical altercation where you were beaten up in front of everyone, and you temporary lose your sense of pride? Especially when your girlfriend just watched you get the pl*** kick out of you? Why would you listen to someone who is currently in this stage of mind? I wouldn't. I would only listen to someone who is clear in the head. As far as Esbern goes... he maybe the lore master of the blades, but he knows nothing of Sovngarde.

Wow, so Ulfric is merely just being emo. He has no clue what he's on about, and is just making plops up. Prove it. Show me the source that contradicts Ulfric and Esbern. Not just your personal belief, but actual evidence to back up your argument. As far as Esbern goes, he knows a lot about Alduin.

According to the data Esbern has been known for raving; incoherent talk. I still believe that when he fired out the following quote:

Yes, one would be considered that if others have no idea what he is on about. You see this when you bring him to Delphine, who is confused and has no idea what he is on about, with end of the world, hidden temple etc.

It was only meant to tell the Imperials and the Stormcloaks to STFU in a polite way.

Prove it? Give me evidence. So far Esbern contradicts you, Ulfric contradicts you, the Elder Scrolls contradict you. Alduin himself in Helgen is hinting about the link between them and feeding his power.

Theirs trillions and billions of souls in Sovngarde, and their not all inside Hall of Valor. A Nord dies every single day from a bandit attack, Forwarn attack, bears,trolls, ice wraths,etc. The civil war souls is not only on Alduins menu.

How do you know where the souls are? Nords do die all the time, but how many of them face death without doubt or fear? How many would suddenly cower at the last moment? Sovngarde is meant for warriors or those who prove themselves worthy.

There would be thousands soldiers on both sides, maybe even hundred thousands. Fighting all the time, with huge losses. There could be hundreds of soldiers killed in a battle. Ambushes, raids, entire units clashing.

If you can show evidence that bandit attacks kill more people than a Civil War? Majority of people rarely travel the roads anymore, you may get the odd farmer or peasant.

I'm not saying that Alduin only eats dead Legion or Stormcloaks, but they're in the main supply. If you can give me one quote, one book, perhaps even just a single sentence... That supports your argument. Then I'll agree. So far, nothing.

 

[General Charles Xander]

What? The Great War was thirty years ago and Alduin only returned during 4E 201. He can't eat the souls inside. The Civil War sustains him, makes him more stronger because it is a large supply of souls.

Do you honestly believe that all of the souls who go to Sovngarde ALL goes to Hall of Valor where they fest with Shor? You must pass Tsun's warrior test to determine if you have that right to enter the Hall of Valor. Those who fail do not enter. Tsun gave no special treatment to the Dragonborn as he initiated the test to see if he was worthy to cross the bridge and enter.
Oh man, first time doing this on phone. Hope I don't screw up!
I'll admit some of this is fact, the rest I'm myself am unsure but this is what I got!

Nord souls who fail Tsun's test or who don't go to Sovngarde likely gets recycled in the Dreamsleeve and re-incarnate on Tamriel. Souls constantly get born, live their lives and get recycled in the Dreamsleeve where they are stripped of their memories so that they can achieve enlightenment and leave the Arena once more. The point of creation is to achieve heights no Aedra ever could. For souls to raise themselves higher than before.

Alduin doesn't even figure out yoiu're Dragonborn until you come across him waking up another Dragon with Delphine. Then he has a conversation with you.

Yes, I do believe Alduin cares about the Civil War. Because it is part of the prophecy to what allows him to end the world, "When the sons of Skyrim would spill their own blood"

The war is sending him the souls he needs to gather strength.

Alduin doesn't give a damn about the civil war. He's not a Thalmor agent who is out there encouraging both the Imperials and the Stormcloaks to fight against each other. Hes just another classified monster who is instinctually causing mayhem in Skyrim. They don't call him the "world eater" for nothing. He flew over Heglan and saw a bunch of petty mortals, and decided that he wanted to kill them all. It has nothing to do with caring for the civil war.
This may sound a bit repetitive to DrunkenMage, but the civil war should matter a Hell of a lot to Alduin considering it is that which the prophecy has brought him back. Regardless of Alduins intentions there was a higher force than Alduin putting the pieces in place...*cough, "The Elder Scrolls" cough*. Alduin however is not dead, he's just REALLY pissed probably

Seriously? Is that how you work your way around arguments. "Hel's just depressed, he's just annoyed" therefor the loremaster of the Blades who has a lot of knowledge about Alduin is wrong, and Ulfric who is now dead and understands what is happening in the spirit world is actually just depressed and is talking pl***?

How do you draw these conclusions?

Yes I'm serious. Ulfric just been defeated and is grieving over losing the battle. Have you ever been in a psychical altercation where you were beaten up in front of everyone, and you temporary lose your sense of pride? Especially when your girlfriend just watched you get the pl*** kick out of you? Why would you listen to someone who is currently in this stage of mind? I wouldn't. I would only listen to someone who is clear in the head. As far as Esbern goes... he maybe the lore master of the blades, but he knows nothing of Sovngarde.
So your saying that Ulfric is acting out of depression? Of so he is more pathetic than I thought! But seriously, I'm for sure not saying Ulfric is the bad guy, but he sure as Hell does not have right timing. For now the Empire has every right to be angry. Ulfric at this time is just a warmonger.

According to the data Esbern has been known for raving; incoherent talk. I still believe that when he fired out the following quote:

"Even now, he devours the souls of your fallen comrades! He grows more powerful with every soldier slain in your pointless war!" - Esbern

It was only meant to tell the Imperials and the Stormcloaks to STFU in a polite way.

Theirs trillions and billions of souls in Sovngarde, and their not all inside Hall of Valor. A Nord dies every single day from a bandit attack, Forwarn attack, bears,trolls, ice wraths,etc. The civil war souls is not only on Alduins menu.

 

[General Charles Xander]

Dang it! I done screwed up ;-;
My reply is IN the response I quoted.
I'm sowwy

 

[LegateFasendil]

DrunkenMage said: ↑

Alduin doesn't even figure out yoiu're Dragonborn until you come across him waking up another Dragon with Delphine. Then he has a conversation with you.

Yes, I do believe Alduin cares about the Civil War. Because it is part of the prophecy to what allows him to end the world, "When the sons of Skyrim would spill their own blood"

The war is sending him the souls he needs to gather strength.​

Alduin doesn't give a damn about the civil war. He's not a Thalmor agent who is out there encouraging both the Imperials and the Stormcloaks to fight against each other. Hes just another classified monster who is instinctually causing mayhem in Skyrim. They don't call him the "world eater" for nothing. He flew over Heglan and saw a bunch of petty mortals, and decided that he wanted to kill them all. It has nothing to do with caring for the civil war.

Well... uhh... you lost me at this point. The rest of it I can see what you mean.

Alduin is not just any monster. And tech he's not really a monster, he kind of a God or perhaps a demi-God.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Dang it! I done screwed up ;-;
My reply is IN the response I quoted.
I'm sowwy

When you quote someone, the first thing at the top "User, post: number, member: number" you copy that and paste it above the section you're quoting. Then you add /quote with [ ] at the end of the section.

Example

 

[General Charles Xander]

Dang it! I done screwed up ;-;
My reply is IN the response I quoted.
I'm sowwy

When you quote someone, the first thing at the top "User, post: number, member: number" you copy that and paste it above the section you're quoting. Then you add /quote with [ ] at the end of the section.

Example

Thank you, I'm still learning the ropes! Glad to meet you Btw!
I now know the feeling you get when you open your alert and see "Drunkenmage quoted you".

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Dang it! I done screwed up ;-;
My reply is IN the response I quoted.
I'm sowwy

When you quote someone, the first thing at the top "User, post: number, member: number" you copy that and paste it above the section you're quoting. Then you add /quote with [ ] at the end of the section.

Example

Thank you, I'm still learning the ropes! Glad to meet you Btw!
I now know the feeling you get when you open your alert and see "Drunkenmage quoted you".

DrunkenMage is kind of a scholar here the forums. IF you need anything lore-wise explained, you go that direction. And welcome.

 

[DrunkenMage]

DrunkenMage is kind of a scholar here the forums. IF you need anything lore-wise explained, you go that direction. And welcome.

I actually don't know that much as people believe. I'm a good debater, which makes it look like I know all.

 

[Ivory]

I actually don't know that much as people believe. I'm a good debater, which makes it look like I know all.

Not to mention it's not hard to just look up the lore. People are just too lazy and flock to the ones who do. Not to demean what you do Drunken, I'm glad someone does.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Not to mention it's not hard to just look up the lore. People are just too lazy and flock to the ones who do. Not to demean what you do Drunken, I'm glad someone does.

That is okay, I tend to flock to Rimfaxe who knows more than I do.

 

[Lewsean]

I have a question relating to the end game of the Thalmor. If all Talos worship is outlawed, Stormcloaks crushed etc etc then how long do you think it will be for Talos' hold on Mundus to grow weak, and ultimately come to an end? This is the main issue really, and no matter what you think of Ulfric and the Stormcloaks, there cause is actually 100% the right one at the very base of things.

 

[Ivory]

I have a question relating to the end game of the Thalmor. If all Talos worship is outlawed, Stormcloaks crushed etc etc then how long do you think it will be for Talos' hold on Mundus to grow weak, and ultimately come to an end? This is the main issue really, and no matter what you think of Ulfric and the Stormcloaks, there cause is actually 100% the right one at the very base of things.

It's silly to think a law would stop people from worshipping their god. Many of the Empire still highly worship Talos. It shouldn't matter to the Gods weather it's in secret or in public. Will he be weakened? Maybe, but none of the Gods have ever physically manifested themselves on Nirn and Lorkhan if I'm not mistaken was killed by another God. (Might be wrong).


The proper question you should be asking is "If the stormcloaks win and the Empire falls, how long will it be until the Thalmor achieve their ultimate goal of unmaking Nirn to ascend to the godhood they so desperately think they deserve?"

There are speculated to be only two towers left. One in the Imperial City and one in Skyrim. If you think Skyrim, if the Empire loses, can protect itself against every single province on it's own, you're a bigger fool than Ulfric, because in the end, the Thalmor will take Skyrim if the Empire falls.

How ironic that it was the Nords that helped drive back the Ayleids and helped Alessia free humans from elven slavery and it will be the Nords who are the catalyst to all of Nirn's destruction as well.

 

[Lewsean]

I have a question relating to the end game of the Thalmor. If all Talos worship is outlawed, Stormcloaks crushed etc etc then how long do you think it will be for Talos' hold on Mundus to grow weak, and ultimately come to an end? This is the main issue really, and no matter what you think of Ulfric and the Stormcloaks, there cause is actually 100% the right one at the very base of things.

It's silly to think a law would stop people from worshipping their god. Many of the Empire still highly worship Talos. It shouldn't matter to the Gods weather it's in secret or in public. Will he be weakened? Maybe, but none of the Gods have ever physically manifested themselves on Nirn and Lorkhan if I'm not mistaken was killed by another God. (Might be wrong).


The proper question you should be asking is "If the stormcloaks win and the Empire falls, how long will it be until the Thalmor achieve their ultimate goal of unmaking Nirn to ascend to the godhood they so desperately think they deserve?"

There are speculated to be only two towers left. One in the Imperial City and one in Skyrim. If you think Skyrim, if the Empire loses, can protect itself against every single province on it's own, you're a bigger fool than Ulfric, because in the end, the Thalmor will take Skyrim if the Empire falls.

How ironic that it was the Nords that helped drive back the Ayleids and helped Alessia free humans from elven slavery and it will be the Nords who are the catalyst to all of Nirn's destruction as well.

No, a law won't stop people from worshipping their God, which is what the Civil War is all about .
And no, that isn't the 'proper question'.. The proper question is exactly what I asked, which is what the Thalmor WANT so they can achieve to unmaking of Nirn. The only way they can do that is by removing Talos from the history books, that won't happen when a whole nation worships him.
How did your biasd imperial mind manage to turn a simple question regarding the Thalmor into a bash against the Stormcloaks/Ulfric lol? I don't even know why I bothered replying to this, such a plops post, just rewording my question to go on a irrelevant rant.


In short, you lack fundamental lore knowledge and your reply shows that.

 

[Ivory]

No, a law won't stop people from worshipping their God, which is what the Civil War is all about .
And no, that isn't the 'proper question'.. The proper question is exactly what I asked, which is what the Thalmor WANT so they can achieve to unmaking of Nirn. The only way they can do that is by removing Talos from the history books, that won't happen when a whole nation worships him.
How did your biasd imperial mind manage to turn a simple question regarding the Thalmor into a bash against the Stormcloaks/Ulfric lol? I don't even know why I bothered replying to this, such a pl*** post, just rewording my question to go on a irrelevant rant.


In short, you lack fundamental lore knowledge and your reply shows that.

So much irony it hurts. Still, if you'd rather insult, go for it man. I wasn't bashing Ulfric. If you fail to understand the concept of worshiping a god in secret, then you failed to understand my post at all.

A God would not care if their followers openly worshiped them or not.

Let's say for the sake of argument, Talos only has power based on the people who worship him.

So even if Talos is illegal, that won't stop people from worshiping him. Far from it. They'll just do so in private. That's how worship and faith works.

You even contradict yourself when you say "The only way they can do that is by removing Talos from the history books, that won't happen when a whole nation worships him."


Why then would the mortal coil of making it illegal change anything? People will still worship Talos. Many of Skyrim's people do who support the Empire. Balgruuf, Tolfdir and many others to give a few examples do so. The banning of Talos is temporary, the Empire won't keep the law once the Thalmor are dealt with. Once the war starts, people will be free to worship Thalmor all they want since y'know, no point in holding that law when it was a small factor in holding the peace.

Once the war starts, what's the point? Do you think so little of the Empire that is around thanks to Tiber Septim that even after defeating the Thalmor, they would keep Talos worshiped banned? Why? That's silly.

 

[General Charles Xander]

No, a law won't stop people from worshipping their God, which is what the Civil War is all about .
And no, that isn't the 'proper question'.. The proper question is exactly what I asked, which is what the Thalmor WANT so they can achieve to unmaking of Nirn. The only way they can do that is by removing Talos from the history books, that won't happen when a whole nation worships him.
How did your biasd imperial mind manage to turn a simple question regarding the Thalmor into a bash against the Stormcloaks/Ulfric lol? I don't even know why I bothered replying to this, such a pl*** post, just rewording my question to go on a irrelevant rant.


In short, you lack fundamental lore knowledge and your reply shows that.

So much irony it hurts. Still, if you'd rather insult, go for it man. I wasn't bashing Ulfric. If you fail to understand the concept of worshiping a god in secret, then you failed to understand my post at all.

A God would not care if their followers openly worshiped them or not.

Let's say for the sake of argument, Talos only has power based on the people who worship him.

So even if Talos is illegal, that won't stop people from worshiping him. Far from it. They'll just do so in private. That's how worship and faith works.

You even contradict yourself when you say "The only way they can do that is by removing Talos from the history books, that won't happen when a whole nation worships him."


Why then would the mortal coil of making it illegal change anything? People will still worship Talos. Many of Skyrim's people do who support the Empire. Balgruuf, Tolfdir and many others to give a few examples do so. The banning of Talos is temporary, the Empire won't keep the law once the Thalmor are dealt with. Once the war starts, people will be free to worship Thalmor all they want since y'know, no point in holding that law when it was a small factor in holding the peace.

Once the war starts, what's the point? Do you think so little of the Empire that is around thanks to Tiber Septim that even after defeating the Thalmor, they would keep Talos worshiped banned? Why? That's silly.

No, a law won't stop people from worshipping their God, which is what the Civil War is all about .
And no, that isn't the 'proper question'.. The proper question is exactly what I asked, which is what the Thalmor WANT so they can achieve to unmaking of Nirn. The only way they can do that is by removing Talos from the history books, that won't happen when a whole nation worships him.
How did your biasd imperial mind manage to turn a simple question regarding the Thalmor into a bash against the Stormcloaks/Ulfric lol? I don't even know why I bothered replying to this, such a pl*** post, just rewording my question to go on a irrelevant rant.


In short, you lack fundamental lore knowledge and your reply shows that.

So much irony it hurts. Still, if you'd rather insult, go for it man. I wasn't bashing Ulfric. If you fail to understand the concept of worshiping a god in secret, then you failed to understand my post at all.

A God would not care if their followers openly worshiped them or not.

Let's say for the sake of argument, Talos only has power based on the people who worship him.

So even if Talos is illegal, that won't stop people from worshiping him. Far from it. They'll just do so in private. That's how worship and faith works.

You even contradict yourself when you say "The only way they can do that is by removing Talos from the history books, that won't happen when a whole nation worships him."


Why then would the mortal coil of making it illegal change anything? People will still worship Talos. Many of Skyrim's people do who support the Empire. Balgruuf, Tolfdir and many others to give a few examples do so. The banning of Talos is temporary, the Empire won't keep the law once the Thalmor are dealt with. Once the war starts, people will be free to worship Thalmor all they want since y'know, no point in holding that law when it was a small factor in holding the peace.

Once the war starts, what's the point? Do you think so little of the Empire that is around thanks to Tiber Septim that even after defeating the Thalmor, they would keep Talos worshiped banned? Why? That's silly.

A god is not simply a child, they do not care if they are paid attention to or not. If they will it, they could forcefully put their influence on people. Do you hear Talos at all complaining about his amount of worship?

Regardless, people haven't stopped worshipping Talos. The Empire itself still worships him in secret. I.E. Legate Rikke. But to answer your question. A ban on religion doesn't mean the god will be forgotten. By your logic, if people stop worshipping him, chaos will erupt and all sense of morale and discipline will vanish. Talos is the Empire. The Empire is Tamriel Tamriel is the birthplace of humanity. Talos's influence will not die, it live on in the hearts of many people. The Stormcloaks ironically as Talos's avengers, are helping rid of his influence by killing each other.

 

[General Charles Xander]

I apologize for being repetitive, but it's exactly like Ivory said. When the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion clash again, why would they keep the Talos ban? Going a bit off topic, If the gods (Talos mainly) are so appalled and disgusted by recent events, why haven't any one of them mention anything about either side? Meridia excluded because she is only concerned about the dead.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

Going a bit off topic, If the gods (Talos mainly) are so appalled and disgusted by recent events, why haven't any one of them mention anything about either side? Meridia excluded because she is only concerned about the dead.

In the Elder Scrolls the Aedra (The gods) are not really active except through agents, like the Dragonborn.

And Daedra don't really care because why would they?

What are the trifles of man to gods and devils?

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

DrunkenMage is kind of a scholar here the forums. IF you need anything lore-wise explained, you go that direction. And welcome.

I actually don't know that much as people believe. I'm a good debater, which makes it look like I know all.

If you do not know something, I am certain you could look it up. That is the best thing about a scholar, is that they do the research to get the info needed.