And winning the war for man would be personal gain for man. Granted it would also be physical gain, but, you get the point. Lets also not forget that they taught him about Jurgen Windcaller and the Battle of Red Mountain, and how supposedly Kyne was angry and struck them down for their insolence of using the Thu'um to win wars and conquest, Even though its thought that the only reason Kyne gave them the thu'um in the first place to go to war against the Dragons so, the ideology kind of contradicts itself.
The Great War wasn't about winning for men, or personal gain. It was defending against invaders who have come to destroy everything men had achieved. Using the Thu'um for conquest =/= Thu'um for defense.
The mother isn't going to like being told her son was a "stupid traitor" no matter how much you try to sugarcoat it not to mention joking that they "have their son locked up in the cellar"
I'm not saying the guy's father cares. If you read through their dialogue she is blaming them, so he does become rude and sarcastic.
We don't know their personal opinion on Thorald though
Does it honestly matter if we do not know their exact opinion on the man? Their families were close, one is in love with a Gray-Mane and the other inquired about his friend. Just because the two Clan leaders hate each other, it doesn't mean they all do.
Sure each individual has his/her own moral code but as you said the, Empire as a whole, doesn't care about honor while the Stormcloaks, as a whole do.
The Empire cares about the Empire. The Stormcloaks as a whole care about what they consider 'honor', but as Captain Aldis puts it best: "
Being honorable might make you a good man, but it doesn't make you right."
Of course, but at least they don't teach their spies to murder innocent old men and do other immoral acts
Again, you believe he is innocent. They don't say if he's innocent or not, and this was just one man's test. It is about carrying out orders.
The Empire doesn't teach spies to murder innocents. The Penitus Oculatus aren't just spies, they defend the Empire from espionage and threats. They're assassins too.
Well then maybe, give them some info about the old man instead of just saying kill him. Maybe say: "We have intel that supports this man as a prime suspect for working with the Thalmor." Then they find the man and realize hes just this old defenseless man, and if some people can't do it, they're the ones who get cut the ones that can, don't. It seems a bit extreme that they just say "kill this random old man as tribute of your loyalty to the Empire" "uhmm, okay"
It is a test. To see if they will do it and how they do it, again this was just one person's test. You're right it does seem extreme, but with all the threats the Empire faces external and internal, you need people who will do the job no matter what it takes.
Colin ends up dead when he lets his guard down and begins to trust someone he believed was on his side, if I remember correctly.
What you call extreme and wrong, it is needed to survive in that line of work. Even in our modern world.
That makes sense. They need to heighten out their Spies, weed out the week, sure, I get that, it just seems a little extreme. They can do that in many other ways as opposed to: "kill this random old man as a test of tribute". I mean, this is the Empire, the lawful watchers over all under their banner. when did they allow murder? Aparrently, when it suits their interests it's totally fine.
When did the United States allow murder? You think they've never assassinated or tortured people to defend their way of life? This is normal in the world of espionage and national security.
The Penitus Oculatus does what is needed to safeguard the Empire, the Blades were the same under the Septim line.
Because they only have half of Skyrim on their side and they're fighting on the offensive against the Imperials (most of which happen to be Nords". The rage fueling the Nord's hearts against the Dominion will be much stronger than the rage against the Empire. The Empire, from the Stormcloaks point of view, just gave up and let the Dominion walk all over it, literally walk all over the Empire (I understand this was the only choice they had). The Dominion, from the Stormcloaks point of view, are the Horrible oppressors
How much land you have doesn't make better soldiers. Training is the key here, the Stormcloaks are a militia, as Galmar puts it:
We are farmers! We are craftsmen! We are sons and daughters of shopkeepers, maid servants and soldiers!
And is the Empire just going to sit back as the 2nd Great War unfolds above them, or are they just going to allow everyone to burn?
What? The Empire and Aldmeri Dominion will be fighting, Cyrodiil/Valenwood/Elsweyr will be front lines. Majority of the Legion is already in place on the Dominion's border.
Thats the problem here, if you guys couldn't fight the Aldmeri in a defensive war, albeit, a surprise attack, with more than twice the strength you have now, whats the probability of you fighting an offensive war with less than half the strength you most likely need to fight in a war positioned as such?
The Empire did fight the Aldmeri Dominion, and the Legions did very well. One main army was completely destroyed and the second was left weakened and on the run?
Surprise is devastating in war, and is a major advantage. The Empire didn't have twice the strength, you have to remember;
a) The Empire was unprepared
b) The Military was weaker and was spread across four provinces
c) Hammerfell was weak, divided and wasn't even prosperous for the Empire
The Empire is now prepared, they've spent nearly three decades regaining strength and building their military for round two. Also the Imperial army is gathered where the front lines will be, instead of being very far away.
The Great War 2 is going to happen, you can side with the Empire who can actually reach the Aldmeri Dominion. Hope we win...
Or you can side with the Stormcloaks who are weaker than the Empire, can't even reach the Aldmeri Dominion, have cut the Empire in half near the brink of war and remove needed resources from reaching Cyrodiil.
Imperials will be fighting the elves. Stormcloaks have to rebuild their country, train their armies and hope they don't miss the war.
