Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Anouck]

In Oblivion I began in jail at the hands of the Imperials. In Skyrim my head was on the chopping block at the hands of the Imperials. Just me, but Stormcloaks all the way!

LOL I can't believe 8 people disagreed with you. The truth must hurt doesn't it? Anyhow yeah you have a point there. The Imperials are obsessed with tossing people in prison.

Of course it's always the Legion. In our world it's always the police deparment. Blaming the Imperials for tossing people in prison is like blaming the police for tossing people in prison. Who else could arrest people? They are the authorities. The Stormcloaks don't arrest people because they are not the arm of the law...

 

[Raijin]

At least the Imperials take prisoners. Stormcloaks rarely take prisoners, guess it goes to show the Stormcloaks surrender more often. I see Stormcloak prisoners everywhere.



Innocence is the first casualty of war. Your innocence may or may not be so, not to mention Bulgruuf and Ulfric himself mention about your criminal past.

Ulfric: "So long as your criminal past stays in the past, and you fight for me with honor and integrity, we'll welcome you into our ranks."

Walk into a prison and ask who's innocent, see how many claim they are. They can't take your word for it since you were captured along side Ulfric, ending the rebellion is the most important thing to do quickly. You already had the Thalmor show up at the execution trying to stop it, because Ulfric's death would hinder their plans. The longer you delay the harder it will be to remove the seeds of Ulfric's rebellion.

You were in the wrong place at the wrong time, happens even today in our grand modern times.

First and foremost you you were caught crossing the boarder. What crime did you break that warrants such gruesome method of being executed? The Imperials didn't give you a chance to explain yourselves to them. They would much rather see you dead then doing the right thing by letting you explain your side of the story.They had the resource by sending you to the prisons to be interrogated, but they failed.

When I walk into a prison and ask who's innocent, the prisoners would raise their hands and say yes... but they were ALL given a proper trial and judged by their peers. They were convicted and charged with their crimes. Now they must do their proper sentence.

I don't know why you keep saying this, but the Thalmor wasn't there to stop Ulfric's execution. Where do you hear this anyways? I've searched throughout Tullius and Elenwen's sound files, and not one wav file can prove this. The Thalmor are there to remind the Empire that they can tell them what to do, and this is coming straight from the horses mouth... Tullius.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

First and foremost you you were caught crossing the boarder. What crime did you break that warrants such gruesome method of being executed?...
When I walk into a prison and ask who's innocent, the prisoners would raise their hands and say yes... but they were ALL given a proper trial and judged by their peers. They were convicted and charged with their crimes. Now they must do their proper sentence.

Dude It is the middle ages. and even today any form of execution is gruesome....

Remember this isn't our world there are parrellels but last I checked our world's technologic progression wasn't hampered by the ability of people to learn how to shoot lightning... But more to the point, you catch a band of rebels during a war, and two doesn't seem to be wearing the uniform. One is obviously a horse thief, are you really gonna believe the other one? Hell all we know is that we are entering Skyrim, and why would anyone charge toward a War ridden country... I have to assume morally loose individuals...

 

[Anouck]

Not a single criminal got a fair trial in Skyrim. They throw you in prison when they catch you murdering someone or robbing a house - they don't look for proof. That's not the Legion's fault. There are no lawyers or judges. And you, when you get executed in Helgen, are no exception.

 

[Mighty Pecan Pie]

Not a single criminal got a fair trial in Skyrim. They throw you in prison when they catch you murdering someone or robbing a house - they don't look for proof. That's not the Legion's fault. There are no lawyers or judges. And you, when you get executed in Helgen, are no exception.

You're right, every guard is like Judge Dredd. " I AM the law"

 

[The Laoch]

I wish at Helgen I could just choose go to jail.

Also Skyrim is in a civil war it would seem like people would want to leave not go into the province. I think of it
Iike people crossing the border illegally from the USA to Mexico. Who cares?

 

[DrunkenMage]

First and foremost you you were caught crossing the boarder. What crime did you break that warrants such gruesome method of being executed? The Imperials didn't give you a chance to explain yourselves to them. They would much rather see you dead then doing the right thing by letting you explain your side of the story.They had the resource by sending you to the prisons to be interrogated, but they failed.

When I walk into a prison and ask who's innocent, the prisoners would raise their hands and say yes... but they were ALL given a proper trial and judged by their peers. They were convicted and charged with their crimes. Now they must do their proper sentence.

I don't know why you keep saying this, but the Thalmor wasn't there to stop Ulfric's execution. Where do you hear this anyways? I've searched throughout Tullius and Elenwen's sound files, and not one wav file can prove this. The Thalmor are there to remind the Empire that they can tell them what to do, and this is coming straight from the horses mouth... Tullius.

You were caught in the ambush, this is said by Ralof in the wagon on the way to Helgan. You were caught with Ulfric and his bodyguards, along with a horse thief. I doubt they would suddenly be all "Yeah we'll let this one explain his story of how he is innocent" The Stormcloaks could of said you weren't with them as Lokir was asking them. Though how can they believe anything you say? It was a wrong place wrong time.

You were convicted also, by the Captain. If you look to your left when they're talking about how your name isn't on the list, you'll see Tullius all the way over in front of Ulfric, only Hadvar and the Captain are next to you. By the time Tullius does notice you at the block, I'm sure he would of assumed you're meant to be there. Besides he does say that your imprisonment was probably just a misunderstanding.

I've explained this several times, it is mentioned in the Dossier which you don't accept, much like other in game things such as how the race of the smith doesn't matter when buying from her as Stormcloaks, though she mentions Stormcloaks don't like buying from non-nords.

 

[Anouck]

It's like Legate Rikke said, the Legion is the only force that keeps the Thalmor out of Skyrim.

A rebellion is exactly what the Dominion wants; strong soldiers murdering each other and making Skyrim defenseless.

 

[The Laoch]

It's like Legate Rikke said, the Legion is the only force that keeps the Thalmor out of Skyrim.

A rebellion is exactly what the Dominion wants; strong soldiers murdering each other and making Skyrim defenseless.

Now don't get me wrong all my Bretons support the Empire, but I don't like how they let the Thalmor walk all over them and kill anyone they want. The point I want to bring up is for my Nords I have them support the Stormcloaks. Could you argue the Stormcloaks could keep the Thalmor out? If the Thalmor attacked Skyrim after the Stormcloaks won, wouldn't that force the Empire to strike while the Thalmor are distracted. Heck the red guards could even strike.

 

[Anouck]

Now don't get me wrong all my Bretons support the Empire, but I don't like how they let the Thalmor walk all over them and kill anyone they want. The point I want to bring up is for my Nords I have them support the Stormcloaks. Could you argue the Stormcloaks could keep the Thalmor out? If the Thalmor attacked Skyrim after the Stormcloaks won, wouldn't that force the Empire to strike while the Thalmor are distracted. Heck the red guards could even strike.

The civil war creates distance between people.

You can only fight against an enemy as one. As soon as people start fighting among theirselves they're doomed... That was a movie line I wanted to use for a very long time

 

[feliciano182]

Now don't get me wrong all my Bretons support the Empire, but I don't like how they let the Thalmor walk all over them and kill anyone they want. The point I want to bring up is for my Nords I have them support the Stormcloaks. Could you argue the Stormcloaks could keep the Thalmor out? If the Thalmor attacked Skyrim after the Stormcloaks won, wouldn't that force the Empire to strike while the Thalmor are distracted. Heck the red guards could even strike.

The Thalmor aren't allowed to kill anyone.

If you're speaking of the justiciars you find while on the road, it's probably a game mechanic at work, the developers know the players are going to have very strong feelings towards the Thalmor, most of them negative, among those players there will be those who will want to play good-aligned characters, and thus won't want to assault or murder the justiciars, so that's why it's always them who initiate confrontations when you meet them.

As for the latter, The Imperial Legion is composed of nord soldiers as well, this isn't "Colovians VS Nords", it's "The Empire VS The Stormcloaks".

You should perhaps check the geography of Tamriel, for the Thalmor to reach Skyrim, they would have to trample either Cyrodiil or Hammerfell, and frankly, I wouldn't see why The Empire would even strike at The Thalmor when they're in the middle of a war with the Stormcloak army, better to just let them get taken over by The Dominion and then strike, much more sound strategy.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Now don't get me wrong all my Bretons support the Empire, but I don't like how they let the Thalmor walk all over them and kill anyone they want. The point I want to bring up is for my Nords I have them support the Stormcloaks. Could you argue the Stormcloaks could keep the Thalmor out? If the Thalmor attacked Skyrim after the Stormcloaks won, wouldn't that force the Empire to strike while the Thalmor are distracted. Heck the red guards could even strike.

The Dominion aren't connected to Skyrim lands, Cyrodiil is connected by two Dominion held provinces. The Empire is keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim, that is the Army since the Thalmor are the political body. If the Dominion are attacking Skyrim it means they destroyed a cut off Cyrodiil, since Stormcloak victory isolates Cyrodiil from High Rock and the rest of their Legions.

 

[The Laoch]

The Thalmor aren't allowed to kill anyone.

If you're speaking of the justiciars you find while on the road, it's probably a game mechanic at work, the developers know the players are going to have very strong feelings towards the Thalmor, most of them negative, among those players there will be those who will want to play good-aligned characters, and thus won't want to assault or murder the justiciars, so that's why it's always them who initiate confrontations when you meet them.

As for the latter, The Imperial Legion is composed of nord soldiers as well, this isn't "Colovians VS Nords", it's "The Empire VS The Stormcloaks".

You should perhaps check the geography of Tamriel, for the Thalmor to reach Skyrim, they would have to trample either Cyrodiil or Hammerfell, and frankly, I wouldn't see why The Empire would even strike at The Thalmor when they're in the middle of a war with the Stormcloak army, better to just let them get taken over by The Dominion and then strike, much more sound strategy.

I'd disagree, first the thalmor killing people.
In the main quest *spoiler* a Thalmor khajit attacks you when you go to save Esbern in Riften, because you are dragonborn/ helping blades. *end* Plus some Talos preists seem to disappear when the Empire takes over a town that was controlled by stormcloaks.

Next the thalmor could attack Skyrim. They are on an Island they must have some type of a navy. Clearly the Imperial navy isn't at it's full strength since in the Great War the high elves controlled the imperial city for nearly a year, so I can guess they couldn't break the occupation with its navy. What im trying to say is when I play Skyrim it is clear Skyrim isn't a threat on the sea even though Nords make good sailors. If I was the thalmor I'd take solitude and ally myself with the Forsworn so they could distract the reach. You could use Skyrim's borders against her. The mountains offer few good trading routes and if you cut off the sea and the 3 roads that lead out of Skyrim you can starve her people.( I understand in reality there is probably more than 3 roads, but most probably can't handle a heavy supply route.)

And last what I want to address is the Empire would attack the Thalmor if the stormcloaks won. It is foolish to attack when you are in a civil war with the Stormcloaks. If the thalmor pushed into Skyrim as I suggested up above that would take a lot of troops out of high rock, valenwood, summer set, and elsweyr. That looks like the perfect time for an attack. Let Skyrim burn while the Empire runs through the summer set country side.

On a finally note I'm sorry if my typing is sub par, I am on my iPad and it is difficult to fix and edit. I do understand what you are saying.

 

[Dagmar]

....Hell all we know is that we are entering Skyrim, and why would anyone charge toward a War ridden country...

No, we only know the player character was trying to cross the border. We don't know in which direction. Further, we don't what border is referenced. While Ralof refers to "the border" he also says later on in Riverwood (if you follow him instead of Hadvar) that they were caught outside of Darkwater Crossing which makes it plausible that the border to which he was referring was the border between Eastmarch and The Rift.

Lokir's words imply that you and he have been mistaken for Stormcloaks, notwithstanding your manner of dress (when he pleads with the Stormcloaks to tell the Imperial Legion that he's not with them and tries to tell the Imperial Legion he's not with the Stormcloaks). That's why you're about to be executed.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

Dam I have been Dagmar'ed. Sigh. But yeah I assumed entering, because of lines like "You picked a bad time to come home kinsman" if your a nord and "Another refugee... The gods really have abandoned your people" for Dunmer. Hell the redguard one "Are you a mercenary? or a sailor out of (sorry forgot the exact name)" for the Redguards. Now that is quoted from memory, but I may be wrong or out of context. I thought that it was implied you were not in Skyrim before.

 

[Dagmar]

Dam I have been Dagmar'ed. Sigh. But yeah I assumed entering, because of lines like "You picked a bad time to come home kinsman" if your a nord and "Another refugee... The gods really have abandoned your people" for Dunmer. Hell the redguard one "Are you a mercenary? or a sailor out of (sorry forgot the exact name)" for the Redguards. Now that is quoted from memory, but I may be wrong or out of context. I thought that it was implied you were not in Skyrim before.

Hadvar's dialogue for the Dunmer can't be a reference to crossing the border into Skyrim since refugees hail from the northern border of Skyrim between Morrowind and Skyrim. His reference to the Redguard is even less relevant as being a Sell Sword bears no relevance to the matter and being a sailor from Stros M'kai even less so. In general his race specific dialogues seem to be suggestions for a character's RP background more than what direction the character was headed in when he or she is caught (which is why he asks if you're with one of the strongholds if your Orsimer and if you're related to any workers on the docks if you're Saxhleel). I think the reference to your picking a bad time to come home as a Nord is to imply that you have a presumed interest in taking a side in the civil war. You're not bound by his assumptions though and it's not definitive of which direction you were headed, especially given Ralof's more detailed account later in the game of where you were actually caught.

 

[Muart]

This is what I did : Finish quest for Imperials, Backstab Ulfric, then tell my companion, a replica of a dremora lord, to attack Tullius. Whenever I go back into Castle Dour, Lydia is waiting for me, and Tullius is on the floor.

U KNOW WHY?

Cause both suck.

 

[feliciano182]

I'd disagree, first the thalmor killing people.
In the main quest *spoiler* a Thalmor khajit attacks you when you go to save Esbern in Riften, because you are dragonborn/ helping blades. *end* Plus some Talos preists seem to disappear when the Empire takes over a town that was controlled by stormcloaks.

First, you are speaking of different things, Savari is an assasin, the justiciars are not, they are official agents tasked with rooting out Talos worship throughout Skyrim, to do this, they are bound by specific terms dictated in the WGC, to which they have to abide.

And which town are you talking about ? Whiterun ? Heimskr gets thrown in jail (thank you Talos) if you side with The Empire in the Civil War.

Next the thalmor could attack Skyrim. They are on an Island they must have some type of a navy.

That's not gonna happen, Skyrim is very far from the Summerset Isles, the trip alone would cost any state an inmense amount of resources just to keep the soldiers alive; it would have to be a one way trip throughout the dangerous waters of the Sea of Ghosts, since they wouldn't be able dock in Hammerfell or High Rock.

It's insanity, even in the case that the Dominion army somehow makes it to the coasts of Skyrim, they would never be able to hold it, since Skyrim is surrounded on both sides by High Rock and Cyrodiil.

And last what I want to address is the Empire would attack the Thalmor if the stormcloaks won. It is foolish to attack when you are in a civil war with the Stormcloaks. If the thalmor pushed into Skyrim as I suggested up above that would take a lot of troops out of high rock, valenwood, summer set, and elsweyr. That looks like the perfect time for an attack. Let Skyrim burn while the Empire runs through the summer set country side.

If The Empire did such a thing, then it would come to be after either The Dominion or The Stormcloaks won, it makes no sense to attack both sides at the same time, the best option would be for The Empire to hold it's armies and wait for whoever is left standing.

As for Valenwood and Summerset, highly unlikely as well, they'd have to leave Cyrodiil defenseless if they campaign through those provinces, which would give the Dominion a better chance to retake the imperial capital were they to take a Stormcloak-controlled Skyrim, which they easily could.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

Ah My lady Dagmar you never disappoint. Though I feel like stating that the Imperials pay better, after all who needs more justification than profit? As for killing both sides that is bad business in my eyes, though to each their own.

 

[The Laoch]

First, you are speaking of different things, Savari is an assasin, the justiciars are not, they are official agents tasked with rooting out Talos worship throughout Skyrim, to do this, they are bound by specific terms dictated in the WGC, to which they have to abide.

And which town are you talking about ? Whiterun ? Heimskr gets thrown in jail (thank you Talos) if you side with The Empire in the Civil War.



That's not gonna happen, Skyrim is very far from the Summerset Isles, the trip alone would cost any state an inmense amount of resources just to keep the soldiers alive; it would have to be a one way trip throughout the dangerous waters of the Sea of Ghosts, since they wouldn't be able dock in Hammerfell or High Rock.

It's insanity, even in the case that the Dominion army somehow makes it to the coasts of Skyrim, they would never be able to hold it, since Skyrim is surrounded on both sides by High Rock and Cyrodiil.



If The Empire did such a thing, then it would come to be after either The Dominion or The Stormcloaks won, it makes no sense to attack both sides at the same time, the best option would be for The Empire to hold it's armies and wait for whoever is left standing.

As for Valenwood and Summerset, highly unlikely as well, they'd have to leave Cyrodiil defenseless if they campaign through those provinces, which would give the Dominion a better chance to retake the imperial capital were they to take a Stormcloak-controlled Skyrim, which they easily could.

Very valid points.

1) I was talking about riften so she must be in jail. Thanks for heads up.

2) the original question I wanted to answer was when Rikki said the Empire is the only thing keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim. Which I believe is no ,since if the Aldmeri are not going to have a large scale invasion of Skyrim how come the Stormcloaks can't handle a few soldiers? The Thalmor want the empire dead not Skyrim they would probably leave Skyrim alone if they left the Empire. They left Hammerfell,black marsh, and morrowind alone.

3) you are right in saying that the Empire could wait if there is a war between the stormcloaks and Thalmor, but why wait when you can attack the Thalmor when they are distracted. I wouldn't attack Skyrim that is being a sore loser haha.

In the end I'm 50/50 on stormcloak and Empire, but in he end I think because of the Mede leadership the Empire will lose both Skyrim and Highrock for the next game.