Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

Unless you magically kill all the Sons and Daughters of Skyrim, there will always be a resistance to the Empire from any Nord who wishes to be able to freely worship Talos. This is exactly what is happening in real-life in Afghanistan.

Many who worship Talos are fighting for or siding with the Empire. Talos worship isn't solely linked to the solders of the Stormcloak rebellion whom are fighting for various reasons not just Talos.

The only thing holding the Stormcloak Jarls together is Ulfric, the others wouldn't be able to agree on the color of pl*ps. Two of them believe Ulfric is power hungry and are siding with him simply because he is the devil they know, the others? One wants Riften instead of their Hold, another wants more power over the other Jarls and the last one is barely holding onto his seat while he has grand plans of enslaving an entire ethnic group.

I'll say this again, because you milk drinkers obviously aren't getting it.

ALL. EMPIRES. FALL.

That they do, though in TES the Imperials have this nasty habit of cropping back up again. The Third Empire has been on the brink of destruction about four times now, you may think it is dead, but then it hits back.

So shall the Dominion, and so shall the Cyrodilic Empire. Guerilla tactics will outlast traditional militaries unless the military adopts a scorched earth policy - in which case, there will be no Tamriel to live in. Even then, underground pockets of resistance may still exist.

Then what you're actually arguing is that neither side can win as the loser adopts guerilla tactics against the now in power faction, striking wherever and whenever they can. That argument includes the Forsworn who under the Stormcloaks will be fighting a whole lot more since they're getting enslaved. The doubled edged sword when it comes to depending on slave labor for wealth, you require a constant stream of slaves.

No need for a scorched earth policy as dragons and bandits are burning and raiding the farms, and the food/resources given by the Empire are important to the people of Skyrim.

So too would Stormcloak sympathizers in the event of an Imperial victory in the civil war.

As there would Empire sympathizers... The point is moot.

SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS. [/thread]

You've just done a full circle and invalidated your own stance. Welcome to the Skyrim Civil War. [/thread]

 

[Davian]

Many who worship Talos are fighting for or siding with the Empire. Talos worship isn't solely linked to the solders of the Stormcloak rebellion, whom are fighting for various reasons not just Talos.

The only thing holding the Stormcloak Jarls together is Ulfric, the others wouldn't be able to agree on the color of pl*ps. Two of them believe Ulfric is power hungry and are siding with him simply because he is the devil they know, the others? One wants Riften instead of their Hold, another wants more power over the other Jarls and the last one is barely holding onto his seat while he has grand plans of enslaving an entire ethnic group.

I get that Maven is an opportunist, but which Jarl "simply wants more power over the others"? Skald? Or are you talking about the rightful High King Ulfric, who bested Torygg in fair combat, according to Nord tradition?

Someone's been hitting the skooma a bit too hard...

ALL. EMPIRES. FALL.

That they do, though in TES the Imperials have this nasty habit of cropping back up again. The Third Empire has been on the brink of destruction about four times now, you may think it is dead, but then it hits back.

Necromancy. By the way, you can't agree with me, and then go "Yeah, but". That's not agreeing. Take a stand!

Then what you're actually arguing is that neither side can win, as the loser adopts guerilla tactics against the now in power faction, striking wherever and whenever they can. That argument includes the Forsworn, who under the Stormcloaks will be fighting a whole lot more since they're getting enslaved. The doubled edged sword when it comes to depending on slave labor for wealth is that you require a constant stream of slaves.

Eliminating the Forsworn, if necessary, sounds like a job for the Dragonborn. Problem solved. Moving on...
I'm betting that once the pansy-ass Imperial sympathizers turn tail after Tullius is beheaded, they won't have the will to fight after losing not one, but TWO great wars in such a short span of time. Your arguments don't hold water, and mine are not moot, because Skyrim is home to the Nords, not the milk drinkers. And we actually host a proper moot to decide the High King. Dragons and bandits are indeed doing what they have done since time immemorial. But again, the Dragonborn takes care of the dragons, and with the war over, guards can take care of bandits.

Welcome to the Skyrim Civil War. [/thread]

I look forward to beheading you in your sleep, induced by all that skooma you have consumed. And that, my drunken adversary, is coming full circle. Punctuating my argument with one of the key phrases in the game is done for emphasis of my position, and is not a point in itself.

But you are too drunk to notice this, of course.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I get that Maven is an opportunist, but which Jarl "simply wants more power over the others"? Skald? Or are you talking about the rightful High King Ulfric, who bested Torygg in fair combat, according to Nord tradition?

Someone's been hitting the skooma a bit too hard...

Jarl of Winterhold, he wants more power and authority. Jarl of Morthal wants to have Riften etc. Skald is an idiot who would willingly sacrifice every man, woman and child.

Fair combat? "I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same?" - High King Torygg

By the way, you can't agree with me, and then go "Yeah, but". That's not agreeing. Take a stand!

Has nothing to do with agreeing. You argued "Empires fall" which is technically true, I can't exactly go "No they never fall!".

Eliminating the Forsworn, if necessary, sounds like a job for the Dragonborn. Problem solved. Moving on...

Dragonborn won't do much beyond the main quest and expansions.

I'm betting that once the pansy-ass Imperial sympathizers turn tail after Tullius is beheaded, they won't have the will to fight after losing not one, but TWO great wars in such a short span of time.

Galmar would disagree. How are they losing two great wars? They're not even completely involved, maybe after Vici and Mede's death they will be.

"If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now." - Ulfric Stormcloak

And we actually host a proper moot to decide the High King.

No, Ulfric refuses to allow the Moot until every Jarl has bent the knee. More of a farce than respecting ancient tradition.

Dragons and bandits are indeed doing what they have done since time immemorial. But again, the Dragonborn takes care of the dragons, and with the war over, guards can take care of bandits.

Not on this scale, the bandits have taken over much of Skyrim. The Companions themselves make mention the province is out of control. Guards can take care of the bandits? The largest and most organized bandit group in all of Skyrim is located in Eastmarch. They do exactly what the Thalmor do, except they're not picky.

When you have a faction that refuses to provide work for mercenaries, they turn to banditry to make money. The near religious zeal of the Stormcloaks creates their problem.

Your arguments rely on the Dragonborn. Dragonborn, dragonborn, dragonborn. The hero character does not factor in, you are released from both factions. Technically you give yourself over to Mora and will unlikely be heard from again.

 

[Raijin]

Fair combat? "I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same?" - High King Torygg

"How is the High King supposed to be the defender of Skyrim, if he can't even defend himself?" -Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak

 

[DrunkenMage]

"How is the High King supposed to be the defender of Skyrim, if he can't even defend himself?" -Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak

"He surrendered pretty meekly, too. So much for his death-or-glory reputation." - Hadvar

 

[Raijin]

"How is the High King supposed to be the defender of Skyrim, if he can't even defend himself?" -Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak

"He surrendered pretty meekly, too. So much for his death-or-glory reputation." - Hadvar

We all know how much General Tullius is into that kinky bondage stuffs. You don't need to show us his fascinations with strong Nord men.

 

[DrunkenMage]

We all know how much General Tullius is into that kinky bondage stuffs. You don't need to show us his fascinations with strong Nord men.

I hear Elenwen holds quite the BDSM session, maybe get Ulfric to tell you after a few bottles of mead. Knowing you, you'd pick the first carriage to Solitude to hand yourself over.

 

[Raijin]

We all know how much General Tullius is into that kinky bondage stuffs. You don't need to show us his fascinations with strong Nord men.

I hear Elenwen holds quite the BDSM session, maybe get Ulfric to tell you after a few bottles of mead. Knowing you, you'd pick the first carriage to Solitude to hand yourself over.

Why not? I can show Elenwen my statute of Talos.

 

[Davian]

Jarl of Winterhold, he wants more power and authority. Jarl of Morthal wants to have Riften etc. Skald is an idiot who would willingly sacrifice every man, woman and child.

Fair combat? "I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same?" - High King Torygg

By the way, you can't agree with me, and then go "Yeah, but". That's not agreeing. Take a stand!

Has nothing to do with agreeing. You argued "Empires fall" which is technically true, I can't exactly go "No they never fall!".

You can, because it's true. Even the American Empire is being threatened. Stop being a dumbass. I know it's difficult, but stop.

Dragonborn won't do much beyond the main quest and expansions.

And why not? Just because it's not written in lore? Another baseless argument.

I'm betting that once the pansy-ass Imperial sympathizers turn tail after Tullius is beheaded, they won't have the will to fight after losing not one, but TWO great wars in such a short span of time.

Galmar would disagree. How are they losing two great wars? They're not even completely involved, maybe after Vici and Mede's death they will be.
"If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now." - Ulfric Stormcloak

Funny. I always complete the Dark Brotherhood questline for this exact reason. Bring it on.

Dragons and bandits are indeed doing what they have done since time immemorial. But again, the Dragonborn takes care of the dragons, and with the war over, guards can take care of bandits.

Your arguments rely on the Dragonborn. Dragonborn, dragonborn, dragonborn. The hero character does not factor in, you are released from both factions. Technically you give yourself over to Mora and will unlikely be heard from again.

Then why even have a game? Stop drinking. You make absolutely no sense.

 

[DrunkenMage]

You can, because it's true. Even the American Empire is being threatened. Stop being a dumbass. I know it's difficult, but stop.

What on earth are you on about? "American Empire"? What does this even have to do with the topic.

And why not? Just because it's not written in lore? Another baseless argument.

Shall we take a look at previous heroes. Arena... Not mentioned beyond main quest. Daggerfall... Not mentioned beyond main quest. Morrowind... Not mentioned beyond main quest. Oblivion... Not mentioned beyond main quest.

Now, do you see a little fl*ffing pattern emerging since 1994?

If we want to get into an argument about the Dragonborn, he/she abides by the White-Gold Concordat. Asks the Priests of Riften under Stormcloak control "Which of the Eight Divines do you serve?"

The reason no one uses the Dragonborn as the main defence in their argument, is because player choice and they understand a counter argument can be made using a mirrored argument involving their player choice.

Even if you side with the Legion or the Stormcloaks, your character is released from the faction. That you're "needed elsewhere" in the world, what a surprise.

Then why even have a game? Stop drinking. You make absolutely no sense.

I'm not making sense? You're the one going on about some American Empire, you use your in-game head canon as an argument and just use "Dragonborn" anytime your points get the smallest amount of scrutiny.

Put your little disagree rating on, write something else stupid and at least try to pretend to be civil.

 

[Davian]

Before I begin, I just have to say, you sure love feeding trolls, don't you? Tsk tsk. Take a chill pill and have a sweet roll.

I'm not making sense? You're the one going on about some American Empire, you use your in-game head canon as an argument and just use "Dragonborn" anytime your points get the smallest amount of scrutiny.
Put your little disagree rating on, write something else stupid and at least try to pretend to be civil.

"What on earth am I on about? "American Empire"? What does this even have to do with the topic?"

I was using an example of the modern-day equivalent to an empire that exists in the real world as a comparison to the Cyrodilic Empire. Same motives. No different than the Thalmor, really, aside from the Thalmor wanting the world to end... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_imperialism

Try telling me that having military bases in 150 other countries, many of which are allies, but most of which are either neutral or somewhat hostile, is not an act of imperialism. You can't. It might not be old-fashioned "I am the emperor!" imperialism, but it is economic imperialism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_deployments

If my arguments rely on the Dragonborn, yours seem to rely on unwavering support for an Empire, and as I said before, all empires fall. Might call it "Imperial exceptionalism". That kind of thinking disgusts me.

In the real world, the USA's time as the world's only superpower is now challenged on multiple fronts by Russia, China, and the rest of the BRICS, as well as anyone else who is sick of the impact of American culture on the world.

So it goes with my distaste for the Cyrodilic Empire in-game.

 

[DrunkenMage]

In Tamriel people don't get along. What makes the Empire so successful is they keep order, when Imperial influence falls it is always marked by wars or great problems. Cyrodiil is in the heart of Tamriel, why the Imperials go to such efforts to create a vast Empire is firstly to protect Cyrodiil from the to bordering eight provinces and often the Gods seem to push them in that direction.

I understand you seem to dislike Imperialist things, which sort of contradicts with your like of Stormcloaks and Nords. Nords are Imperialist. They were the first in fact to establish an Empire conquering other regions, enslaving and have been involved in the founding of the three Imperial ones. They were more fun when burning Cyrodiil Priests at the stake.

No one has an issue with the Empire for being the Empire in Tamriel, save the Thalmor who hate the idea that men can achieve what they never could I assume. What most have issue with is the White-Gold Concordat that Titus II signed.

My support for an Empire in TES is simply untrue, I have made it clear many times I'd want to see the Colovian Estates rise again. I support the Empire in this current debate, although I can just as easily argue in favor of the Stormcloaks... I just find them rather bland.

Tamriel isn't our world, and the Cyrodiil Empire isn't America. I think the only non-Imperialist groups would be Bosmer, Khajiit and Dunmer. Other than that you're going to probably hate and be disgusted by many things.

 

[Davian]

In Tamriel people don't get along. What makes the Empire so successful is they keep order, when Imperial influence falls it is always marked by wars or great problems. Cyrodiil is in the heart of Tamriel, why the Imperials go to such efforts to create a vast Empire is firstly to protect Cyrodiil from the to bordering eight provinces and often the Gods seem to push them in that direction.

I understand you seem to dislike Imperialist things, which sort of contradicts with your like of Stormcloaks and Nords. Nords are Imperialist. They were the first in fact to establish an Empire conquering other regions, enslaving and have been involved in the founding of the three Imperial ones. They were more fun when burning Cyrodiil Priests at the stake.

No one has an issue with the Empire for being the Empire in Tamriel, save the Thalmor who hate the idea that men can achieve what they never could I assume. What most have issue with is the White-Gold Concordat that Titus II signed.

My support for an Empire in TES is simply untrue, I have made it clear many times I'd want to see the Colovian Estates rise again. I support the Empire in this current debate, although I can just as easily argue in favor of the Stormcloaks... I just find them rather bland.

Tamriel isn't our world, and the Cyrodiil Empire isn't America. I think the only non-Imperialist groups would be Bosmer, Khajiit and Dunmer. Other than that you're going to probably hate and be disgusted by many things.

I can finally agree with what you said. People in Tamriel (races, in general, at least) don't get along very well, and Imperials are known for being diplomats and businessmen, etc., so it makes sense that they would engage in uniting the peoples of Tamriel. My issue with the situation in the time period of TESV is clearly that I am opposed to the religious oppression being enforced by the WGC, which I think has been well-established by now.

I remember doing several playthroughs on the Imperial side, and Rikke saying "Talos be with you" after Ulfric dies. I just can't get behind an entity that would be complicit in such a thing as banning religious freedom as a condition of peace. And it happens that I see certain parallels in the real world, such as Mr Trump's expressed attitude toward Muslim Americans.

If you cannot see the parallels, that's too bad. But at least we can agree on a few points. Finally.

I'm chalking this one up as a truce, successfully brokered - by the Dragonborn.

Now can we get that Thalmor bitch out of our conference room?

 

[Raijin]

As much as I disagree with DrukenMage political views in the world of Tamriel... theirs no need to start using personal insults,Davian... by calling him drunk and other insulting words. If you want to defeat him use logic instead of emotional words.

 

[DrunkenMage]

As much as I disagree with DrukenMage political views in the world of Tamriel...

What did you say!?!

 

[Davian]

As much as I disagree with DrukenMage political views in the world of Tamriel... theirs no need to start using personal insults,Davian... by calling him drunk and other insulting words. If you want to defeat him use logic instead of emotional words.

Two things:
1. "There's no need..."
2. I was role-playing. DM figured it out. Get over it.

 

[Raijin]

As much as I disagree with DrukenMage political views in the world of Tamriel... theirs no need to start using personal insults,Davian... by calling him drunk and other insulting words. If you want to defeat him use logic instead of emotional words.

Two things:
1. "There's no need..."
2. I was role-playing. DM figured it out. Get over it.

Two things:

1.

2. Kinda hard to tell if you're role-playing when you're bringing up real world politics into your argument.

 

[Davian]

Two things:
1. (I was) Just following orders...
2. That's part of the fun. I dance from my persona to real-world self, and apparently, some people can't tell the difference. Internet anonymity has its good points.

 

[Ancano]

*Sigh*

You guys are still arguing about this?

pfft

Thalmor have already won fools. You can run to the Empire or you can run to the Stormcloaks however neither of them can outrun the Dominion or for that matter the Thalmor. Unless maybe you go to Morrowind, well what's left of it. XD

We argue based on the way things should be, you know, what we see as being 'fair'... How we would like things to be... The Empire is really alright and Ulfric is a nice guy and look how nicely his hair is braided. None of that matters, this is THE END for the Imperials and the Stormcloaks. Elven supremacy is the only truth.

 

[Davian]

*Sigh*

You guys are still arguing about this?

pfft

Thalmor have already won fools. You can run to the Empire or you can run to the Stormcloaks however neither of them can outrun the Dominion or for that matter the Thalmor. Unless maybe you go to Morrowind, well what's left of it. XD

We argue based on the way things should be, you know, what we see as being 'fair'... How we would like things to be... The Empire is really alright and Ulfric is a nice guy and look how nicely his hair is braided. None of that matters, this is THE END for the Imperials and the Stormcloaks. Elven supremacy is the only truth.

*pulls out Staff of Magnus*

Oh, really?