Elisif Appreciation Thread

[Adam Belmont]

The Thalmor should be something to be feared. They are extremely powerful and control a massive Empire of their own. How she acts at the Thalmor party is to be expected, you have to pretend to play nice at those functions, you can't act in a way that the Thalmor can use against you, the treaty is more important than an insult. So the Empire puts on the pretend smile, sometimes Tullius will be there and he will say that he would refuse but he doesn't want to breach the treaty in anyway. Thousands died for that treaty, thousands will die if that treaty is broken before the Empire is ready for war.

And that's why there are so many who support Ulfric, he can be many things, but it's not a coward. What benefit this treaty brought to Skyrim? None. The redguards were brave enough to say NO to the Empire and so should Elisif (or Ulfric);

"Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes."

They leave Skyrim in this situation in the name of Cyrodiil, do you think this is right? I think Skyrim deserves more than that.

 

[DrunkenMage]

And that's why there are so many who support Ulfric, he can be many things, but it's not a coward. What benefit this treaty brought to Skyrim? None. The redguards were brave enough to say NO to the Empire and so should Elisif (or Ulfric);


They leave Skyrim in this situation in the name of Cyrodiil, do you think this is right? I think Skyrim deserves more than that.

Skyrim is perfectly safe, Cyrodiil is more important yes, Skyrim isn't connected by two Dominion held provinces full of large armies of Dominion soldiers. If Skyrim was connected by two Dominion held Provinces I suppose the Empire would give Skyrim a little more consideration. However Skyrim isn't facing a stand off between the Armies of the Aldmeri Dominion.

The Redguards formed their own treaty with the Thalmor, the benefit the treaty brought to Skyrim was perhaps the return of the Legionnaires, the discontinue of the war. Without the treaty and the war continued there would be no Army left, they would all have been killed trying to keep fighting, having to dispatch the army to Hammerfell to remove the Thalmor who are already entrenched in the Southern half, have to dispatch parts of the army into Valenwood and Elsweyr. I guess the main benefit the treaty got Skyrim is the fact the Imperial army remains to keep the Dominion out of Skyrim. Ulfric's little militia attacking Markarth could hardly defend Skyrim from the thousands of Dominion soldiers who are able to march unopposed because the Empire was dumb enough to continue the war when they had less than half the Army remaining after the Battle of Red Ring. But I suppose the destruction of the Empire, the enslavement of man is well worth it so a few of those old grumpy Nords can say "What a brave defeat it was" They have lived full lives, the rest of the generations don't matter to them.

But this is about Elisif not an Empire/Thalmor thread and I have gone on long enough about other things.

Elisif is young but she will learn, you can't rebel against every heir because they are inexperienced. What about when Ulfirc dies, and a new heir is put on the throne he'll have never been High King before, lets rebel against him or better yet kill him for his title.

 

[Raijin]

General Tullius = The Legion. The Legion = The Military. Stop confusing Empire with Legion. That is like saying the Mayor of New York gets advice from the General of the Army on what to do at a party.

General Tullius + The Legion = Empire

 

[dovaqueen]

The main reason women often are not leaders in modern day life is down to children, women have a limited time to have children, so they often focus on that, they want to be married and have children in however many years. Their emotional side then affects this further, after they have children they want to be with them and care for them. It's not an enigma, it's what is programmed in their DNA.
Obviously in years gone by they weren't equal, but now they are certainly equal to men in civilised countries and have the same oppurtunities.
Wanting children is something that they do naturally, there are very few women that naturally want to become a CEO, they want to marry a CEO yeah but become one probably not.

I'm not saying this in a sexist way, any woman can become anything she wants, they are often more intelligent than men, but it's in their genetics to seek out a partner that can provide for them and have children, it's in men's genetics to try to be the alpha male and superior to other men, whether that be physically, economically or in any other way.
Women seek safety and security for them and their offspring, men seek dominance over others, they desire to be the best and that often translates to the best high earning jobs and positions of power.

'I'm not say ing that in a sexist way...' Except you ARE sexist. I hate to disillusion you, but you are. And you are perpetuating stereotypes against both men and women that are not only hurtful but harmful. The reason there are less female leaders in the world is because despite all the progress we've made we are still in a patriarchal society. Unfortunately. (And don't tell me that Ulfric is not motivated by his emotions, because that's a load of crap. )

I really can't tell if you are being a troll or if you are that ignorant, even in 2013.
Wanting children has nothing to do with your DNA. You either want them or don't. That has to do with who you are and what your goals are, not what's hanging down below. I have met plenty of men that fret over that more than women do, hell if know why, but they do. If men were really all logic and common sense, every single one of them, I wouldn't have had to dump my last guy for being an emotional basket case that wanted to talk about marriage after two dates. In fact, if men were all logic and common sense creatures we'd be saved! This country would be in great shape.

'Obviously in years gone by they weren't equal, but now they are certainly equal to men in civilised countries and have the same oppurtunities.' Then why are we still getting paid less in certain jobs that are exactly the same?*cough*Walmart* cough* And why do politicians keep trying to take our birth control away?

'Women seek safety and security for them and their offspring, men seek dominance over others, they desire to be the best and that often translates to the best high earning jobs and positions of power.' Then why am I still single and getting paid more than some of these men that are engineers and have seven or more years on me? How did that happen? Did they mistake me for a man on my application?

Back to the subject matter: a good leader needs to be balanced. You can't get away on just logic and you can't be an emotionless machine either.

I don't usually flame anybody, but I was really blown away by the condecending and ignorant content of your post.

 

[DrunkenMage]

General Tullius + The Legion = Empire

The Legion is a small fraction of the Empire. That is like saying America = US Army.

 

[Raijin]

The Legion is a small fraction of the Empire. That is like saying America = US Army.

But the Legion is the Empires Army. How is that a small fraction of the Empire? Is their bloody army for Mara sake. and America is a country, not an army. Your example is essentially saying Cyrodilll = Legion.

 

[DrunkenMage]

But the Legion is the Empires Army. How is that a small fraction of the Empire? Is their bloody army for Mara sake. and America is a country, not an army. Your example is essentially saying Cyrodilll = Legion.

Cyrodiil is the seat of the Empire, that is like saying Washington DC = Army.

Cyrodiil is a Province, same as Skyrim, High Rock, Hammerfell etc. The Empire is united lands.

Empire - Noun - An extensive group of states or countries under a single supreme authority, formerly esp. an emperor or empress.

They're a part of the same land mass, Tamriel.

 

[Adam Belmont]

Skyrim is perfectly safe, Cyrodiil is more important yes, Skyrim isn't connected by two Dominion held provinces full of large armies of Dominion soldiers. If Skyrim was connected by two Dominion held Provinces I suppose the Empire would give Skyrim a little more consideration. However Skyrim isn't facing a stand off between the Armies of the Aldmeri Dominion.

The Redguards formed their own treaty with the Thalmor, the benefit the treaty brought to Skyrim was perhaps the return of the Legionnaires, the discontinue of the war. Without the treaty and the war continued there would be no Army left, they would all have been killed trying to keep fighting, having to dispatch the army to Hammerfell to remove the Thalmor who are already entrenched in the Southern half, have to dispatch parts of the army into Valenwood and Elsweyr. I guess the main benefit the treaty got Skyrim is the fact the Imperial army remains to keep the Dominion out of Skyrim. Ulfric's little militia attacking Markarth could hardly defend Skyrim from the thousands of Dominion soldiers who are able to march unopposed because the Empire was dumb enough to continue the war when they had less than half the Army remaining after the Battle of Red Ring. But I suppose the destruction of the Empire, the enslavement of man is well worth it so a few of those old grumpy Nords can say "What a brave defeat it was" They have lived full lives, the rest of the generations don't matter to them.

But this is about Elisif not an Empire/Thalmor thread and I have gone on long enough about other things.

Elisif is young but she will learn, you can't rebel against every heir because they are inexperienced. What about when Ulfirc dies, and a new heir is put on the throne he'll have never been High King before, lets rebel against him or better yet kill him for his title.

the discussion about the empire is long indeed, by your avatar I can see you suport the empire so we'll just replying to each other forever here.

And as I said on my first post, the only thing I have against Elisif is her condescending attitude towards the Empire and therefore the Thalmor, being a nord woman, she should at least consider that the people of Skyrim wants to have their own future in their hands, even if that means they could all die in a war against the dominion.

 

[Raijin]

Cyrodiil is the seat of the Empire, that is like saying Washington DC = Army.

Wrong. Cyrodiil is a country and the Empire is the government that rules the country. Washington DC would be like Skingrad ... nothing to compare both the Army or the Legion. It's a state.... or a town.

 

[DrunkenMage]

the discussion about the empire is long indeed, by your avatar I can see you suport the empire so we'll just replying to each other forever here.

And as I said on my first post, the only thing I have against Elisif is her condescending attitude towards the Empire and therefore the Thalmor, being a nord woman, she should at least consider that the people of Skyrim wants to have their own future in their hands, even if that means they could all die in a war against the dominion.

Not everyone in Skyrim wants to leave the Empire, hence it is a 'Civil war' "It was you who fought your kin who didn't understand our cause, who weren't willing to pay the price of our freedom." - Ulfric

It isn't Imperials vs Nords. Ulfric being a Nord should at least consider that people of Skyrim consider him a traitor. Thing can be turned both ways.

Wrong. Cyrodiil is a country and the Empire is the government that rules the country. Washington DC would be like Skingrad ... nothing to compare both the Army or the Legion. It's a state.... or a town.

Cyrodiil, also known as the Imperial Province, is a province in the south-central region of Tamriel, and the home of a humanoid race known as Imperials. The center of their Empire and seat of governance, Cyrodiil is also known as "the Heartland"

The Empire is much larger than the Army... You have many different things under the Empire, trade and commerce, Guilds, schools etc. Tamriel being the continent they share, Cyrodiil in larger scales is a Province so a kind of state.

Cyrodiil by itself is a Country, but since the Government is the Empire which occupies other lands, it becomes extended so to speak. A country being 'A nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory.' 'The people of a nation.' Being born in Cyrodiil, High Rock or Skyrim currently makes you an Imperial Citizen/Citizen of the Empire. Otherwise it would like Skyrim has 9 countries as the Holds are largely independent.

 

[feliciano182]

I would like to know where you're getting this information from because my sources indicates nothing like that.

It's the logical conclusion Raijin, nobody is executing Ulfric because his coat is too fashionable, but because he killed The High King, that amounts to High Treason and ultimately, death.

Why would Torygg accepted Ulfrics duel if it was indeed against the law in the first place? Why didn't he just ordered his guards to arrest Ulfric on sight for breaking the law? Instead he went on and fought Ulfric, even know he had little to no chances at winning.... not sure if he could even defeat a small sized mudcrab. Torygg got what he truly deserved.. too bad he went to Sovngarde instead of Oblivion.

So much strawman here it's not even funny.

If Torygg hadn't accepted the duel he would've lost control of Skyrim, Ulfric would've had cause to call a new moot, Torygg had to take that challenge or risk having the White-Gold Concordat be broken, and that could simply not happen.

As of right now shes dumb... not realizing that theirs a blood sucking vampire right inside of her court that can kill her at any point, Her staffs acknowledges that theirs clearly something wrong with the Court wizard, which includes the jailers. Her steward does most of the work, and more importantly her Thanes and her personal chef has zero respect for her.

Nobody knows Sybill Stentor is a vampire Raijin.

And what Falk Fire-beard does speaks very little of her work as a Jarl, as stewards precisely handle all menial matters of court, we don't know how she would handle a political dispute or the signing of a treaty, because we haven't seen her in action.

I'm sure the Thalmor has great appreciation for this woman... after all they can butter her up with lavish parties such as this one.

Raijin..............what in Talos' holy name are you trying to prove with those pictures ?

How the hell is liking parties a bad thing ?

Like what Ulfric said: "And damn the Moot! We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Thorryg's woman on the throne? She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

He was indeed correct on that.

Wonderful, so Ulfric respects the nord traditions that suit his cause, but not those that harm it, hypocrisy at it's finest.

 

[wrighty]

'I'm not say ing that in a sexist way...' Except you ARE sexist. I hate to disillusion you, but you are. And you are perpetuating stereotypes against both men and women that are not only hurtful but harmful. The reason there are less female leaders in the world is because despite all the progress we've made we are still in a patriarchal society. Unfortunately. (And don't tell me that Ulfric is not motivated by his emotions, because that's a load of crap. )

I really can't tell if you are being a troll or if you are that ignorant, even in 2013.
Wanting children has nothing to do with your DNA. You either want them or don't. That has to do with who you are and what your goals are, not what's hanging down below. I have met plenty of men that fret over that more than women do, hell if know why, but they do. If men were really all logic and common sense, every single one of them, I wouldn't have had to dump my last guy for being an emotional basket case that wanted to talk about marriage after two dates. In fact, if men were all logic and common sense creatures we'd be saved! This country would be in great shape.

'Obviously in years gone by they weren't equal, but now they are certainly equal to men in civilised countries and have the same oppurtunities.' Then why are we still getting paid less in certain jobs that are exactly the same?*cough*Walmart* cough* And why do politicians keep trying to take our birth control away?

'Women seek safety and security for them and their offspring, men seek dominance over others, they desire to be the best and that often translates to the best high earning jobs and positions of power.' Then why am I still single and getting paid more than some of these men that are engineers and have seven or more years on me? How did that happen? Did they mistake me for a man on my application?

Back to the subject matter: a good leader needs to be balanced. You can't get away on just logic and you can't be an emotionless machine either.

I don't usually flame anybody, but I was really blown away by the condecending and ignorant content of your post.

There is no sexism in my post, Women are equal to men in intellect, often superior.
I did not say that people in general are not motivated by emotions(like Ulfric) I said that women are motivated more by emotion than men, this is a proven scientific fact.
Whilst emotions play a part in the decisions of both sexes, women will act immediately by how they feel at that time i.e. in the heat of the moment, again not in all cases but in general. Women are ruled much more by emotions than men, they use the emotional side of their brain more. I'm not saying this in a negative way, women are much more caring and open than men. This kind of emotional response can lead to mistakes in business and politics in which cold, hard facts are the most important factors not how you feel about it (again I'm not saying every woman, I'm saying in general, you may be 1 of the exceptions).

Actually wanting children has absolutely everything to do with your DNA, it's not simply a yes or no decision, there is a built in desire to reproduce in every animal and human on this earth, a very small minority choose not to and this is due to environmental factors throughout their lives.

Again by no means is every man logical or intelligent and at no point did I say that, men in general use the logical side of their brain more than the emotional side, proven scientific fact.
Some men like the man you mentioned are often referred to as Beta males, these are men that lack self confidence, they don't believe they can match up to Alpha men in personality/charisma, attractiveness, intelligence or any other attribute. They instead cling to any partner (because they don't believe they can get another and are so shocked they have a girlfriend in the first place) in the hope of reproducing, as women are attracted to leaders and alpha males this causes them to end the relationship, unless the woman herself has similar insecurities.

I don't know about the USA but in the UK women get the exact same pay as men and have superiority in all matters of child custody & divorce. I don't know what you are referring to with birth control and politicians. In the UK all birth control and medical care is free, to women and men.

Why are you still single? Perhaps because men seek a mother to their children and not a career driven woman? Only you know why you are single. Perhaps they pay you more because you are better at your job? If there is no valid reason why then perhaps you should inform your colleagues that you think should be paid more, perhaps they have cause for an industrial tribunal.

There is no condescending content in my original post and it is not ignorant and I did not intend that it would appear to anyone to be ignorant.
I simply stated that women make decisions based on emotion more than men do which can often be a mistake in business and politics, whilst men use their logical side more, a proven scientific fact.

I hope I've cleared up your queries, if you have any more questions I'd be delighted to help, as long as the emotional side of you doesn't take control before you hit that post button.

 

[DrunkenMage]

It is much more simple in the Legion, doesn't matter who is King or who is Jarl or who is a Count.

"Our mission is to serve the Emperor, uphold the Law, and protect the citizenry." You don't have to like a Jarl or a King, you don't answer to them, it is well within your right to tell them all to piss off because they aren't sitting on the Ruby Throne.

I don't care all that much for the politics of Skyrim, because politics everywhere is never perfect, you spend too long squabbling over who controls what, who is a Thane, who is a Jarl who should be High King, in the end you'll be doing it forever because it'll never be perfect. Elisif by Imperial Law is High Queen, that is good enough for me to not dislike or hate her. She'll never command an army, so it isn't like she can do much harm.

 

[-Mir-]

in the UK

WHY IS YOUR COUNTRY SO PERFECT

 

[DrunkenMage]

WHY IS YOUR COUNTRY SO PERFECT

Because we're all civilized and a part of the Commonwealth.

 

[wrighty]

WHY IS YOUR COUNTRY SO PERFECT

hahaha it's far from perfect
There's a huge lashback over our involvement in the EU at the moment, we are being forced to pay billions to them, we are sending billions in foreign aid and then cut our own defence budget, whilst the country we sent the foreign aid to increases their military budget.
Our government gives illegal immigrants homes, education and healthcare as well as benefits that equal $20,000 per year more than our own elderly people are eligible for. We are seen as a haven for immigrants to leech money from and then they take back our money to their home country, it's only going to get worse as hundreds of thousands of Romanians are expected to move to the UK as soon as they join the EU.
Don't get me wrong, some of my best friends are from eastern europe (Bulgaria/Albania) and are both hardworking fantastic guys but the vast majority are coming to England for an easy life on benefits with free healthcare which gives the good people a bad name.

 

[dovaqueen]

There is no sexism in my post, Women are equal to men in intellect, often superior.
I did not say that people in general are not motivated by emotions(like Ulfric) I said that women are motivated more by emotion than men, this is a proven scientific fact.
Whilst emotions play a part in the decisions of both sexes, women will act immediately by how they feel at that time i.e. in the heat of the moment, again not in all cases but in general. Women are ruled much more by emotions than men, they use the emotional side of their brain more. I'm not saying this in a negative way, women are much more caring and open than men. This kind of emotional response can lead to mistakes in business and politics in which cold, hard facts are the most important factors not how you feel about it (again I'm not saying every woman, I'm saying in general, you may be 1 of the exceptions).

Actually wanting children has absolutely everything to do with your DNA, it's not simply a yes or no decision, there is a built in desire to reproduce in every animal and human on this earth, a very small minority choose not to and this is due to environmental factors throughout their lives.

Again by no means is every man logical or intelligent and at no point did I say that, men in general use the logical side of their brain more than the emotional side, proven scientific fact.
Some men like the man you mentioned are often referred to as Beta males, these are men that lack self confidence, they don't believe they can match up to Alpha men in personality/charisma, attractiveness, intelligence or any other attribute. They instead cling to any partner (because they don't believe they can get another and are so shocked they have a girlfriend in the first place) in the hope of reproducing, as women are attracted to leaders and alpha males this causes them to end the relationship, unless the woman herself has similar insecurities.

I don't know about the USA but in the UK women get the exact same pay as men and have superiority in all matters of child custody & divorce. I don't know what you are referring to with birth control and politicians. In the UK all birth control and medical care is free, to women and men.

Why are you still single? Perhaps because men seek a mother to their children and not a career driven woman? Only you know why you are single. Perhaps they pay you more because you are better at your job? If there is no valid reason why then perhaps you should inform your colleagues that you think should be paid more, perhaps they have cause for an industrial tribunal.

There is no condescending content in my original post and it is not ignorant and I did not intend that it would appear to anyone to be ignorant.
I simply stated that women make decisions based on emotion more than men do which can often be a mistake in business and politics, whilst men use their logical side more, a proven scientific fact.

I hope I've cleared up your queries, if you have any more questions I'd be delighted to help, as long as the emotional side of you doesn't take control before you hit that post button.

Oh wow, you're right. You aren't condescending at all. How did I make that mistake?*shakes head* And like any person brainwashed by stereotypes (oh trust me, it's not just men) you assume that because I called you out on your bullplops that I must be having a fit of hysterics. You are not the kind of person I would ask help from if the above samples are any reflection on what I can expect to get. But I'm sure the sound of your own typing does delight you.

Dude. Get over yourself. I did not set out to create a thread about modern day sexism in a skyrim forum though apparently it must be alive and well. And of course you don't think you said anything wrong. Sexist people never think they are sexist, just the way an alcoholic does not believe they are an alcoholic and a racist will adamantly deny that they are racist ,but it does not make them less so. But you knew that before you made that post , Mr I'm-not-Sexist-even-though-I-am, that someone like me would reply - so um...glad I could give you want you want? There's no way I believe you made the comments you made and didn't expect to get a rise.You used a sexist comment in your parting statement to me. If you are not sexist, you are doing a very bad job at representing yourself. You almost had me convinced too, but in that parting statement you shot yourself in the foot.

'women are motivated more by emotion than men, this is a proven scientific fact.' Really? Where is this cited? I want to see it. No seriously. The more you know...I want to educate myself.

'I'm not saying this in a negative way, women are much more caring and open than men. This kind of emotional response can lead to mistakes in business and politics in which cold, hard facts are the most important factors not how you feel about it (again I'm not saying every woman, I'm saying in general, you may be 1 of the exceptions).' Gender stereotyping is gender stereotyping no matter how pretty a package you try to put it in; nice try. That's standard media brainwashing.

But Beta males are still MALE. So apparently they don't fit the gender stereotype. Are they lacking a gene? What happened to their DNA/instincts/scientific-made-by-men-excuse-to-pat-themselves-on-the-back malarkey?

And for the record, if everything you said about the UK is true and I hope so, great. I'm glad at least one country has its act together somewhat. I mean that sincerely. (I know nothing about the UK and am not going to pretend to. I only know I'd like to visit Ireland.)

And I agree about everything you said about me being single. But I'm not at all a rare specimen, which is why I brought it up. So what is wrong with the rest of us? Did nature skip programming us? Is our DNA broken? What is science's answer to that? We're as female as our sisters that want to stay home and rear children. We identify with being female. We just don't want what society tells us we ought to want.

Sorry, but the points you brought up just do not match with real life experience. They do not. I'm astounded that people in this day an age still think like this and talk like this. I've been exposed to all kinds of leaders in the last four years. Some were good, some were ok, some were pretty terrible and none of it had to do with their gender. If a person is stupid, they are stupid. If they are a bully, or insecure or just plain arrogant - they come in all packages. I wish it were as simple as lumping people into gender groups. It would sure make it easier for me to avoid the people I can't stand. Unfortunately human beings tend to be complex.

 

[Dagmar]

I don't see Elisif being deceptive in those pics, I see her licking the Thalmor boots. I don't think she's someone who is trying to gain the trust of the Thalmor Ambassador to put a knife in her back (figuratively speaking or literal) . Just like the Empire, she fears the Thalmor and will do anything to keep them in good mood. In my point of view, that's a coward's act.

I'm not sure if you're implying that the Empire will do anything to keep the Thalmor in a good mood but if you are that's laughable hyberbole. The Empire abides by the terms it agreed to under the White-Gold Concordat, nothing more, nothing less. In point of fact it didn't even do a very good job of that which is why the Thalmor assigned Justiciars to Skyrim to ensure compliance with the terms of the treaty.

As for Elisif, she seems more clueless than fearful of the Thalmor (and clueless in general). Still, she seems a nice enough person and seems to be well loved by most of the people of Haafingar. There's always potential for an inexperienced and naive young member of royalty to eventually be groomed into better leader. Prince Attrebus Mede was pretty clueless and inept before the Umbriel crisis occurred. I don't want to spoil the books for anyone that wants to read them but he eventually rose to the occasion to become the kind of person his father and the Empire needed. No one can say with any certainty that Elisif wouldn't eventually turn out better as well if the mantle of High Queen were passed to her by the Moot.

She also needs to learn to relax. She's the only Jarl in Skyrim that doesn't do the classic Jarl slouch when sitting on her throne.

 

[Dagmar]

...I said that women are motivated more by emotion than men, this is a proven scientific fact....

Uh no it's not. In general, peer reviewed studies on brain function, gender, cognition and behavior never assert their conclusions are "scientific fact". Quite the opposite, they are qualified as requiring more research and study. In general this is soft science so using the term "scientific fact" is more often than not an oxymoron when attributed to this area of study and it's acknowledged by all credible studies that environmental factors are a significant factor in how females and males act and react to various situations. While I've read many studies that observe notable differences in how women and men engage problems and interact in social groups, I've never read a single one that made the quasi-misogynistic claim that women are more "emotional" or "ruled by their emotions."

....but in the UK women get the exact same pay as men...

No they don't. Gender inequality in employment compensation is alive and well in the United Kingdom. It can be cited from multiple sources including the Home Office.

 

[dovaqueen]

She also needs to learn to relax. She's the only Jarl in Skyrim that doesn't do the classic Jarl slouch when sitting on her throne.

She kinda does need to play it cool a little bit more. Everyone is a bit tense with the whole civil war thing, but they are hiding it because a leader can't let their followers know that they are as worried as they are. Or maybe she's just trying to seem attentive and receptive. IDK. I always thought it was interesting that she has a different posture from the other Jarls.

I'd like to role play her one day just to try and get into her head.