Elisif Appreciation Thread

[dovaqueen]

I have looked for discussions on this and can't find anything anywhere so I made my own thread. Does anyone actually like Elisif besides me? I mean sure, she might not be Balgruuf or Ingrod but these other Jarls were pretty much raised to their position expecting their whole life to grow into leaders whereas Elisif witnessed the horror of her husband being murdered and had the whole 'high queen' thing dumped in her lap. She didn't want it, she didn't lust after it *cough*Ulfric*cough*. But she could be doing a lot worse. She didn't go hysterical or lock herself in a bedchamber, she sat on that throne , grief or no grief, because it needed to be done and went on with things. I also thought she was pretty fair as a leader. (Oh look a pun: Fair. Ha! Ok. I'm done.) What with the whole hearing me out and letting us keep the festival going in Solitude. And I was touched by her secret tribute to her husband, having her deliver his war horn to the shrine of Talos.

What do you think? Does she have the potential to become a good Queen? She has some pretty decent mentors in Tulius and Falk Firebeard.( I just wish she'd fire Erikur, the weasel. )

 

[The Laoch]

There was no murder, Ulfric challenged Toryogg to a duel which he accepted. It's not Ulfric's fault the boy can't hold a sword. I was learning how to fence when I was 13 and I'd imagine Nordic noblemen learn how to fight when they are younger.

I had to put it lol.

I do like Elisif and I believe she could make a good Queen, my only problem I feel she needs to be more confident in herself.
Good Jarl, High Queen hard to say.

 

[-Mir-]

HELL YES! I love her the most out of all the jarls simply because she sits normally and not like a ridiculous, arrogant slouchybutt. And I agree, she is a good leader with all she's gone through and seems to still care a lot about what her people think, kinda like my other favorite, Balgruuf. :3

 

[dovaqueen]

There was no murder, Ulfric challenged Toryogg to a duel which he accepted. It's not Ulfric's fault the boy can't hold a sword. I was learning how to fence when I was 13 and I'd imagine Nordic noblemen learn how to fight when they are younger.

I had to put it lol.

I do like Elisif and I believe she could make a good Queen, my only problem I feel she needs to be more confident in herself.
Good Jarl, High Queen hard to say.

Ok, a duel. I'll grant you that. But in that case, I don't think a sword would have helped Torygg much against the Voice. And I can go on and on about how I don't like how Ulfric went about this, but that's been debated to the death and I want to stick to Elisif. I really wish he would have just talked to Torygg , I think things could have turned out very different. She still saw her husband die rather brutally.

I agree with that as well. But I think her lack of confidence is due to the fact of a) lack of experience to draw confidence from b) having this thrust on her out of nowhere

But it is also one of the things that makes her human and likable. However, I'm hoping she outgrows it in time. She'll need to have belief in herself if she wants the people of Skyrim to believe in her.

 

[LucasNL]

I would shouting someone against the floor and stabbing him in the chest while he can't defend himself hardly call a duel. Talking to some people in the blue palace gives you a lot of information about what happened.

 

[Wildroses]

I read someone who said they once spawned half a dozen vampires in the Blue Palace throne room to see what would happen. What happened was Elisif instantly leapt off her throne, sprinted into a nearby room, grabbed the two handed weapon out of a display case, sprinted back to the throne room and started laying into the vampires with it screaming: "This what you want?! Huh?!"

Yeah. That's a High Queen worthy of following.

 

[Mighty Pecan Pie]

I would shouting someone against the floor and stabbing him in the chest while he can't defend himself hardly call a duel. Talking to some people in the blue palace gives you a lot of information about what happened.

what would you do? If I could be able to win a duel that way, I would. Shouting is his power. the fight seems unfair, but if Torygg accepts the duel. it's his choice isn't it?

and hello fellow Dutchman!

 

[Nocte Aeterna]

Her lack of combat prowess is offset by her lovely looks.

And probably her ability in bed.

 

[wrighty]

Ulfric did challenge Torryg to a dual and he won, but I don't know whether the use of the voice is judged as fair, if magic is allowed then the voice should be allowed but I doubt that it is.
As for Elisif she is a nice person but a terrible leader, she relies on Falk helping her with everything (she was going to send an entire legion to look at a cave).
Would you want Elisif as your leader if the Thalmor attacked?
Throughout history and in modern day women are very rarely leaders, this is not because they lack the intelligence or anything else it is because women use their emotions to make decisions, they allow how they feel to effect their decisions. This is why there are very few world leaders which are women, and much fewer female millionaires and billionaires.
It's proven scientifically that they use the emotional part of their brain much more, I'm not being sexist here there are women that are the exception to the rule and make incredible leaders but in general their thoughts are clouded by their emotions much more than men.
For example show a picture of a baby to 100 women and the same amount of men, then see the different reactions.
Women are as a result of their emotions much more hesitant to do things like go to war or send men to their deaths.

 

[gangraad]

I killed Ulfric to avenge Torygg, he made the msitake of using the voice against me, now they sing songs and laugh about him around the fire.

My loyalties lies with the emperor an Elisif. Allthough she's somewhat naiiv, she still seems to truly care about her people. As long as she rules with a fair hand, I'm hers to command.

 

[gangraad]

sorry for re-post, my mobile won't allow me to edit.

wrighty she's no military strategist I grant you that, but a good leader surrounds herself with good advisors, she is - however - benevolent, something the egocentric little prick Ulfric is not. Besides the empire will thwart the thalmor, Elisif won't have to worry about leather donned gestapo fetichists, not on my watch ;-)

 

[wrighty]

sorry for re-post, my mobile won't allow me to edit.

wrighty she's no military strategist I grant you that, but a good leader surrounds herself with good advisors, she is - however - benevolent, something the egocentric little prick Ulfric is not. Besides the empire will thwart the thalmor, Elisif won't have to worry about leather donned gestapo fetichists, not on my watch ;-)

Don't get me wrong I think she is a nice genuine person but she is weak minded, easily influenced and is a weak leader.
I'm no Ulfric supporter but in comparison Ulfric was strong, charismatic and decisive, the way he spoke to his supporters inspired them and made them willing to die for his cause, Elisif is much, much weaker and has no real authority, Tullius advises her to do something and she does it, same with Falk Firebeard. She lacks the knowledge and confidence to act and instead allows others to make the decisions, she is nothing more than Tullius's puppet on the throne anything he advises her to do she does without question, all her military power is from the empire, she has none of her own supporters, whilst some Nords support the empire I doubt they would wish for Elsif on the throne, someone like Balgruuf would be far superior.

 

[Finnsson]

I read someone who said they once spawned half a dozen vampires in the Blue Palace throne room to see what would happen. What happened was Elisif instantly leapt off her throne, sprinted into a nearby room, grabbed the two handed weapon out of a display case, sprinted back to the throne room and started laying into the vampires with it screaming: "This what you want?! Huh?!"

Yeah. That's a High Queen worthy of following.

I once spawned one High King Torygg and one Ulfric Stormcloak in the Blue Palace, just to attempt to recreate the fateful event. When they began their duel, Torygg shouted "Never should have come here!", but Ulfric promptly used Unrelenting Force on him, blasting him across the room.

Familiar, right?

The twist here is that Elisif had run off to get a sword and was just returning when Ulfric was gearing up for the fatal blow. She wasn't having that crap. She proceeded to beat the living hell out of the Jarl of Eastmarch, screaming "I've had enough of you!" and "Enjoy your last breath!"

RESPECT INCREASED TO 67.

But why did she not do this in the first place?!

 

[gangraad]

she lacks experiance, so did Elizabeth I when she ascended the throne. That she relies on her councilors doesn't make her weak, as long as she learns and grow. He was thrown into her roll the easy way would have been to step down and let another take up the mantle, she did not.

As for Ulfic... A deceitful man will allways find people willing to be deceived.

By Talos I hate writing on this phone.

 

[feliciano182]

There was no murder, Ulfric challenged Toryogg to a duel which he accepted. It's not Ulfric's fault the boy can't hold a sword. I was learning how to fence when I was 13 and I'd imagine Nordic noblemen learn how to fight when they are younger.

Nope, it was murder.

First, imperial law does not allow for jarls to duel each other for positions of power, to kill a a Jarl is high treason, which is sentenced with death by decapitation, as we've all been witness to.

Second, Ulfric didn't go to Solitude to prove his worth as ruler of Skyrim by engaging Torygg in a lawful duel, he came with the intention of killing him to further his agenda, that's called malice aforethought.
As for Elisif, I like her, she's more mature than her age would seem to imply, but she clearly is reserved about matters of war, which is why she prefers to support herself on Tullius.

 

[wrighty]

she lacks experiance, so did Elizabeth I when she ascended the throne. That she relies on her councilors doesn't make her weak, as long as she learns and grow. He was thrown into her roll the easy way would have been to step down and let another take up the mantle, she did not.

As for Ulfic... A deceitful man will allways find people willing to be deceived.

By Talos I hate writing on this phone.

That she relies on her councilors doesn't make her weak necessarily, but it makes her heavily reliant on others, so she is easy to influence, Tullius is practically on the Throne as he makes all the decisions. She doesn't make her own decisions, this for me, makes her a weak leader.
I often compare Ulfric to Hitler, I'm not talking about the terrible things Hitler did but his incredible skill as a public speaker, his ability to inspire others to fight for him and die for his cause. Ulfric has that ability and Elisif certainly does not.

 

[Zyphur]

Not especially, she's just there. Does she even do anything? I thought she just let her steward handle everything, lulz

Throughout history and in modern day women are very rarely leaders, this is not because they lack the intelligence or anything else it is because women use their emotions to make decisions, they allow how they feel to effect their decisions. This is why there are very few world leaders which are women, and much fewer female millionaires and billionaires.

You can't really try to determine "This is specifically why", because the world is much more complicated than that. There's lots of reasons why there have been less women as leaders, one being that most people in past history were against it, including other women, and this is still true for tons of countries. I'm sure chemically both sexes have mental advantages and disadvantages when it comes to this type of thing. It's not so extremely rare to see women in leadership these days.

As for female millionaires and billionaires, well, I don't even know how to be one. >.< There's probably more men than women who want to become entrepreneurs, and from what I've observed men tend to take more risks than women. Again, lots of reasons.

 

[Adam Belmont]

I think Elisif is only a puppet in the hands of the empire and therefore a Thalmor puppet. She's so afraid of the Empire and the Thalmor that she even asks the Dragonborn to secretly deliver his husband horn at the shrine of Talos. As a Nord and future High Queen of Skyrim (if the player supports the empire, of course) she should confront the Thalmor, specially because most nords are Talos worshipers, her people should be priority, not some absurd pact an Empire made for their own benefit. She's weak-minded and that's something a Queen should not be.

 

[Gowsh]

HELL YES! I love her the most out of all the jarls simply because she sits normally and not like a ridiculous, arrogant slouchybutt. And I agree, she is a good leader with all she's gone through and seems to still care a lot about what her people think, kinda like my other favorite, Balgruuf. :3

Slightly OT, sorry.

Have you noticed that, when you sit on the empty throne in Markarth, YOU become a "slouchybutt?"

I was ashamed of my char.

 

[wrighty]

Not especially, she's just there. Does she even do anything? I thought she just let her steward handle everything, lulz



You can't really try to determine "This is specifically why", because the world is much more complicated than that. There's lots of reasons why there have been less women as leaders, one being that most people in past history were against it, including other women, and this is still true for tons of countries. I'm sure chemically both sexes have mental advantages and disadvantages when it comes to this type of thing. It's not so extremely rare to see women in leadership these days.

As for female millionaires and billionaires, well, I don't even know how to be one. >.< There's probably more men than women who want to become entrepreneurs, and from what I've observed men tend to take more risks than women. Again, lots of reasons.

The main reason women often are not leaders in modern day life is down to children, women have a limited time to have children, so they often focus on that, they want to be married and have children in however many years. Their emotional side then affects this further, after they have children they want to be with them and care for them. It's not an enigma, it's what is programmed in their DNA.
Obviously in years gone by they weren't equal, but now they are certainly equal to men in civilised countries and have the same oppurtunities.
Wanting children is something that they do naturally, there are very few women that naturally want to become a CEO, they want to marry a CEO yeah but become one probably not.

I'm not saying this in a sexist way, any woman can become anything she wants, they are often more intelligent than men, but it's in their genetics to seek out a partner that can provide for them and have children, it's in men's genetics to try to be the alpha male and superior to other men, whether that be physically, economically or in any other way.
Women seek safety and security for them and their offspring, men seek dominance over others, they desire to be the best and that often translates to the best high earning jobs and positions of power.