Spoiler Dragonborn may be more important than you thought.

  • Welcome to Skyrim Forums! Register now to participate using the 'Sign Up' button on the right. You may now register with your Facebook or Steam account!
This is ginormous, so I will address your logical fallacies in stages, the first one I already stated is that Talos... was Dragonborn, that does not make the Dragonborn Talos.
Given the random nature of this character, the fact that he is described as doing many of the things our game character does, and the fact that Ysmir is the nordic aspect of Talos, and is also called the Dragon of the North, a title bestowed upon the Dragonborn by the Greybeards who bestowed it upon Ysmir in the first place, it seems within reason that the new Dragonborn (or the Last Dragonborn as the prophecy states) is the next incarnation of of Talos.
Reminds me of Kungfusue', who did a bunch of random stuff, and was reknowned for his Wisdom (To the point that his name means "Wize Old Man") and centuries later whenever random "wisdom" or common sense, or clever pun people want to attribute to the Chinese, they say "Confucus says he who fart in church must sit in own pew." Likewize, half the quotes attributed to Einstein on Facebook (Usually the ones where he's putting down Idiots) are misquotes, or made up from whole cloth. This is not historical evidence of anything except that 1) heros are idolized, and 2) people make unreliable witnesses. Regardless, the similarity that the two both do a lot of random stuff does not = you are Talos, and more than the Nerevarine.

I'll just lip another one in here real quick. At the end of an Expansion to Oblivion, Seogorath appeared where the player character dissapeared. That could mean many of several things. Teleportation, the Hero of Kvatch was the Daedric Lord of Madness all along, or He Was Mssing With Your Mind!i!
 

brycepunk

New Member
That was very impressive. I can't imagine having that much free time but I think it's awesome that you took the effort to research and plot all of that. Well done.
 

DayWalker

Member
Interesting, i posted about this very lore concept because the lore/cannon in these games never seize to keep my mind blown once another aspect of the story is revealed. I'm currently doing much reading into the different rulers of skyrim and their connections with one another and try to bring it all full circle
 

DayWalker

Member
AGREED- 2 things i want to point out. If you go to the College of Winterhold and fulfill their main quest, that psijic monk takes the big ball of power back to his realm, in which is centered around that pentagram in the map. If you remember, the Thalmor was trying to keep everyone out of Winterhold while wielding the staff, thus trying to control the big ball of energy. That very ball of energy could be the very form of energy that "is not meant for this world" that could have been the destruction of mankind.

-If you also remember Septimus Signus trying to unveil the dwemer ruin to reveal what? Lorkhan's heart itself. Make the connection with the theories aforementioned, and it will be more mind blowing.
 

Spartan117JMC

That's not Batman... its... its BUTTMAN :D
True... the lore in theese games are so deep its allmost freaky.. i just love it
 

Subtle

An Unexpected Ally
AGREED- 2 things i want to point out. If you go to the College of Winterhold and fulfill their main quest, that psijic monk takes the big ball of power back to his realm, in which is centered around that pentagram in the map. If you remember, the Thalmor was trying to keep everyone out of Winterhold while wielding the staff, thus trying to control the big ball of energy. That very ball of energy could be the very form of energy that "is not meant for this world" that could have been the destruction of mankind.

-If you also remember Septimus Signus trying to unveil the dwemer ruin to reveal what? Lorkhan's heart itself. Make the connection with the theories aforementioned, and it will be more mind blowing.
Wait Im a little confused... what does the heart of lorkhan have do with the Eye of Magnus?

I believe that the Eye of Magnus is a manifestation of the energy that could be used to destroy the Stone of the Snow throat.
 

Subtle

An Unexpected Ally
OMFG. Idea. I'm only gonna say two words. Are you ready?

Shor's Stone
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Given the random nature of this character, the fact that he is described as doing many of the things our game character does, and the fact that Ysmir is the nordic aspect of Talos, and is also called the Dragon of the North, a title bestowed upon the Dragonborn by the Greybeards who bestowed it upon Ysmir in the first place, it seems within reason that the new Dragonborn (or the Last Dragonborn as the prophecy states) is the next incarnation of of Talos.

Talos was given the title Ysmir by the greybeards aswell but the actuall name talos was given to tiber septim once he became a divine so the Dragonborn wouldnt be a reincarnation of Talos unless Tiber septim himself was influencing the dragonborns actions and the dragon born attained divine status but Ysmir is the dragon of the north so both the Dragonborn and talos would be a reincarnation of Ysmir himself, as opposed to just a title given to them, also the dragon mask Konahriik which you can find in labarynthian is supposedly to lore the mask made to worship Ysmir so wearing that mask suits the setting very well if you are in to being a true reincarnation of Ysmir


Interesting except small error he was known as Talos before he became Divine, Tiber Septim was the name he took on when he became Emperor. When he was a General for a Colovian he was known as General Talos. So he couldn't be given his own name again.
 
I did read the whole thing, but I'm addressing the logical errors one at a time because there are so many of them. Right now, we're on the assumption that just being Dragonborn automatically makes you Talos, which it doesn't. Nothing in the original post, no matter how many times I've read it refutes that.
 

Subtle

An Unexpected Ally
I did read the whole thing, but I'm addressing the logical errors one at a time because there are so many of them. Right now, we're on the assumption that just being Dragonborn automatically makes you Talos, which it doesn't. Nothing in the original post, no matter how many times I've read it refutes that.
I think the author ment to say that you must Shezzarine (which we assume the Dragonborn is) in order for you to be the reincarnation of Talos, in turn being the reincarnation of Lorkhan/Shor.
 

Bertrum

Stop Hodoring!
What an extremely interesting read. +Like

Would love to see more theories like this on the forums!
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
Sorry but there are several large holes in these theories.
Given the random nature of this character, the fact that he is described as doing many of the things our game character does, and the fact that Ysmir is the nordic aspect of Talos, and is also called the Dragon of the North, a title bestowed upon the Dragonborn by the Greybeards who bestowed it upon Ysmir in the first place, it seems within reason that the new Dragonborn (or the Last Dragonborn as the prophecy states) is the next incarnation of of Talos.
Ysmir is more than the Nordic aspect of Talos. You're quoting from Varieties of Faith In the Empire and that quote is limited in context in that it means the god Ysmir is the Nordic aspect of the god Talos. Ysmir in the broader sense is a name granted to others than Talos, including Wuufarth as the Ash King/Underking, and, if you're a literalist, Pelinal. It's akin to a person being given an ethnic name by people of that ethnicity out of a sign of respect and reverance.
...the actuall name talos was given to tiber septim once he became a divine...
Depending on what source you look at, Talos was his original Atmoran name or the name the Nords gave to him after he defeated the Breton and Nord armies at Old Hrol'Dan, but it wasn't bestowed upon him after his apotheosis.
Pocket Guide to the Empire - 3rd Edition said:
The Song of Tiber Septim
From the Odes:
"He was born in Atmora as Talos, 'Stormcrown' in the language of the ancient Ehlnofey, and it was from that shore he sailed.
The Arcturian Heresy said:
At dawn, Hjalti went up to the gates, and the storm followed just above his head. Arrows could not penetrate the winds around him. He shouted down the walls of Old Hrol'dan, and his men poured in. After their victory, the Nords called Hjalti Talos, or Stormcrown.

The Towers of Nirn isn't a lore source. It's pseudo-lore, i.e. not lore at all. It's based on the writings of Michael Kirkbride known as the Nu-Mantia Intercept, also not a lore source. The only towers established by the lore are the Direnni Tower, aka the Adamantine Tower, the Crystal Tower, the Ceporah Tower (completely ignored by the psuedo-lore source), the White Gold Tower, the Brass Tower (which is another name for Numidium and not an actual Tower) and the Red Tower (which was only a tower by metaphor). There is no Snow Throat Tower in the lore. There is a reference to the Snow Tower in the Prophecy of the Dragonborn but as noted later in your post it's a metaphor for Skyrim and the Throat of the World is merely symbolic of Skyrim.
The most significant and only remaining one are the Brass Tower and Snow-Throat, or the Throat of the World.
Even in the psuedo lore source there is no "Khajiit" tower. Both the Direnni Tower and the White Gold Tower are still standing.

The popular player belief that the Thalmor want to unmake Mundus in the hopes of joining the divinity from which they were separated from by Lorkhan is also based on writings of Kirkbride but those writings are also not lore. The only thing the lore establishes is that the Thalmor want to rule over all of Tamriel as the Altmer did during much of the Merethic Era.

There is nothing in the lore to suggest that there is a way to the Throat of the World through Markarth let alone that the Thalmor are there because of it. The notion on the face of it is a bit absurd given the distance between the two locations. I'm not sure why you're putting quotes around those statements either. Who are you quoting?

Strundu’ul means Stormcrown, as in Talos's name translated from ancient Ehlnofey. It doesn't mean the Jagged Crown or the Crown of the High King. According to The Arcturian Heresy Talos earns the name due to the fact that there is always a storm above him favoring him in battle during his military campaigns to build the Third Empire (i.e. the Storm Call shout). The Greybeards tell you that the words are a traditional greeting to a Dragonborn who has accepted their guidance. The reference is to the long passage of time before a Dragonborn arrives to learn the Way of the Voice and wield the power of Strun Bah Qo. It has nothing to do with the Dragonborn being endorsed by the Greybeards as High King of Skyrim. The notion that a standard greeting for Dragonborns who come to learn the Way of the Voice by a faction that (1) has no authority to appoint the High King and (2) are sworn to stay outside of the politics of Skyrim endorses or legitimizes the Dragonborn as High King is counter to everything that the lore tells us about the Greybeards, the position of High King, and what the Stormcrown is.

The bug in a jar conspiracy was meant to be a joke. :p

Please try and understand that citing something off of a wiki site or any other internet source does not qualify it as lore. The internet is filled with misinformation. Lore is only information derived directly from events, quests, documents, data files etc. from the games and other media acknowledged by Bethesda as canon. If you find an internet source claiming that something is lore and there's no citation to content to either of those you should consider it suspect.
 

Katastrophe

King of Tales
All I'm getting from this is a pretty interesting 'end of the world' philosophy in a way outside the present "Alduin eats it" the game gives you, which is viable.

The stuff about you being Talos...? All I'm seeing from the OP is the idea that if you think you're Talos and assume that role, you'll be Talos. That's like saying that if you're african american and give speeches, you're the reincarnation of Martin Luther King Jr. Not buying it.
 

Spartan117JMC

That's not Batman... its... its BUTTMAN :D
I think the author ment to say that you must Shezzarine (which we assume the Dragonborn is) in order for you to be the reincarnation of Talos, in turn being the reincarnation of Lorkhan/Shor.

EXACTLY!
 

Spartan117JMC

That's not Batman... its... its BUTTMAN :D
Sorry but there are several large holes in these theories.
Ysmir is more than the Nordic aspect of Talos. You're quoting from Varieties of Faith In the Empire and that quote is limited in context in that it means the god Ysmir is the Nordic aspect of the god Talos. Ysmir in the broader sense is a name granted to others than Talos, including Wuufarth as the Ash King/Underking, and, if you're a literalist, Pelinal. It's akin to a person being given an ethnic name by people of that ethnicity out of a sign of respect and reverance.
Depending on what source you look at, Talos was his original Atmoran name or the name the Nords gave to him after he defeated the Breton and Nord armies at Old Hrol'Dan, but it wasn't bestowed upon him after his apotheosis.



The Towers of Nirn isn't a lore source. It's pseudo-lore, i.e. not lore at all. It's based on the writings of Michael Kirkbride known as the Nu-Mantia Intercept, also not a lore source. The only towers established by the lore are the Direnni Tower, aka the Adamantine Tower, the Crystal Tower, the Ceporah Tower (completely ignored by the psuedo-lore source), the White Gold Tower, the Brass Tower (which is another name for Numidium and not an actual Tower) and the Red Tower (which was only a tower by metaphor). There is no Snow Throat Tower in the lore. There is a reference to the Snow Tower in the Prophecy of the Dragonborn but as noted later in your post it's a metaphor for Skyrim and the Throat of the World is merely symbolic of Skyrim.
Even in the psuedo lore source there is no "Khajiit" tower. Both the Direnni Tower and the White Gold Tower are still standing.

The popular player belief that the Thalmor want to unmake Mundus in the hopes of joining the divinity from which they were separated from by Lorkhan is also based on writings of Kirkbride but those writings are also not lore. The only thing the lore establishes is that the Thalmor want to rule over all of Tamriel as the Altmer did during much of the Merethic Era.

There is nothing in the lore to suggest that there is a way to the Throat of the World through Markarth let alone that the Thalmor are there because of it. The notion on the face of it is a bit absurd given the distance between the two locations. I'm not sure why you're putting quotes around those statements either. Who are you quoting?

Strundu’ul means Stormcrown, as in Talos's name translated from ancient Ehlnofey. It doesn't mean the Jagged Crown or the Crown of the High King. According to The Arcturian Heresy Talos earns the name due to the fact that there is always a storm above him favoring him in battle during his military campaigns to build the Third Empire (i.e. the Storm Call shout). The Greybeards tell you that the words are a traditional greeting to a Dragonborn who has accepted their guidance. The reference is to the long passage of time before a Dragonborn arrives to learn the Way of the Voice and wield the power of Strun Bah Qo. It has nothing to do with the Dragonborn being endorsed by the Greybeards as High King of Skyrim. The notion that a standard greeting for Dragonborns who come to learn the Way of the Voice by a faction that (1) has no authority to appoint the High King and (2) are sworn to stay outside of the politics of Skyrim endorses or legitimizes the Dragonborn as High King is counter to everything that the lore tells us about the Greybeards, the position of High King, and what the Stormcrown is.

The bug in a jar conspiracy was meant to be a joke. :p

Please try and understand that citing something off of a wiki site or any other internet source does not qualify it as lore. The internet is filled with misinformation. Lore is only information derived directly from events, quests, documents, data files etc. from the games and other media acknowledged by Bethesda as canon. If you find an internet source claiming that something is lore and there's no citation to content to either of those you should consider it suspect.

as stated.. its just theories....
 

Recent chat visitors

Latest posts

Top