Spoiler College of Winterhold - Destruction 101

[Zolo-Shea]

Welcome, fellow Archmages!

I was wondering if some of you knowledgeable types would be able to assist me with something I've been concerned about recently--good damage output via magicka.

My story is that I've been using a vampiric stealth mage for sometime now, and I've been faithful to the use of lightning spells as opposed to fire and ice magic. Now I'm starting to wonder if that's the best route for me. I've learned that two mage perks (Aspect of Terror and Intense Flames) can be combined to make my fire spells pretty deadly. This makes me think I should start taking flame perks...

But how can I be optimizing my lightning damage? I just found the Zahkriisos mask over in Solstheim (50% shock resist, 25% more damage done by shock spells,) and my hopes have suddenly lifted on that subject. Is there any other item I should be made aware of? Are there tricks/perks used to maximize shock damage?

 

[kyleekay]

Unfortunately I can't provide much insight on this, but there's always the option of creating one or more new characters to experiment with different types of magic. That way you can see which one suits you best and is the most fun for you to play.

 

[Thorn]

I do not know of another thing that you could possibly do to make your lighting better, but that being said (or typed that is) I usually go with fire or frost. My favorite mage character has been my Dunmer Pyromancer. All of his foes are given a fiery requiem. And my other mage is a Nord who will only use frost spells. I would also like to know of ways to improve shock spells, as I have just recently started a new save with an Argonian who I will make join the college, as the first thought I had on my initial visit was, Where are the Argonians?

 

[Leseras]

Usually I use all three. The elements are purely circumstantial in use. Fire is for general pruposes, when nothing else works. Frost is what I use against melee fighters, they never reach me when I do. Shock against mages, and strangely enough, dragons. Shock I find moves the fastest, so its easier to nail dragons with it.

 

[Adam Belmont]

I use Shock most of times. I can kill a Dragon before he lands since the Thunderbolt travels in light speed, you aim, cast and hit it without miss. With fire or ice you have to antecipate the movement of the target. But sometimes I use Ice to deal with warriors or anything that moves too fast. And mage duels is piece of cake I just cast a ward in one hand and the thunderbolt in the other, I usually don't get even a 1 hp loss.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

I guess I'll go with fire, but I use shock spells from time to time too, just so I can feel like I'm Emperor Palpatine.

 

[wrighty]

the only way of increasing destruction damage outright is the new dragon priest masks in dragonborn, theres 1 for each element, and the augmented element perks. theres also the aspect of terror glitch. you could reduce destruction costs to help or drink a fortify restoration potion and equip the zahkriisos mask and that will boost the damage increase. I recommend you go to the kolbjorn barrow in dragonborn and get the ring of arcana, it gives you 2 new spells, freeze which slows your targets down a lot and ignite which is the best spell in the game, its a really low cost apprentice fire spell with stackable damage over time, simply dual cast 3 ignites and an elder dragon will die in seconds before it can even land, its also so cheap that you dont need reduced cost enchantments and you can use a different enchantment instead.

 

[Zolo-Shea]

Unfortunately I can't provide much insight on this, but there's always the option of creating one or more new characters to experiment with different types of magic. That way you can see which one suits you best and is the most fun for you to play.

Kyleekay, I need your support here: don't enable my character-making habit! I've been able to stay with my main
character for quite a good while now. I'm actually kind of proud of myself, you know? So much of my Skyim experience has been spent escaping from Helgen! I gotta commit!

I do not know of another thing that you could possibly do to make your lighting better, but that being said (or typed that is) I usually go with fire or frost. My favorite mage character has been my Dunmer Pyromancer. All of his foes are given a fiery requiem. And my other mage is a Nord who will only use frost spells. I would also like to know of ways to improve shock spells, as I have just recently started a new save with an Argonian who I will make join the college, as the first thought I had on my initial visit was, Where are the Argonians?

Where are the Argonians, indeed! I'm always thinking that, you know it? Does your Nord break fools? I've almost been swayed into choosing frost before, but I found a statistic that says most opponents are Nords (i.e., frost resistance is pretty common in Skyrim,) which quickly changed my mind. Keep it alive though, Thorn! I see no one has voted for frost yet, so it's up to you.

 

[Zolo-Shea]

Usually I use all three. The elements are purely circumstantial in use. Fire is for general pruposes, when nothing else works. Frost is what I use against melee fighters, they never reach me when I do. Shock against mages, and strangely enough, dragons. Shock I find moves the fastest, so its easier to nail dragons with it.

I had a dude by the handle of Quarziban who juggled the elements, but that eats up too many perks! I may have to spend time with the perk calculator and see if that's a good idea for Zolo-Shea. By dedicating myself to only one damaging element, I can keep my skill set a little bit broader.

I use Shock most of times. I can kill a Dragon before he lands since the Thunderbolt travels in light speed, you aim, cast and hit it without miss. With fire or ice you have to antecipate the movement of the target. But sometimes I use Ice to deal with warriors or anything that moves too fast. And mage duels is piece of cake I just cast a ward in one hand and the thunderbolt in the other, I usually don't get even a 1 hp loss.

Your last name is Belmont, so I'm guessing you fall in line with those stake-happy Dawnguards. Hmm... Anyway, you got some good points there. My destruction is slowly approaching 70, and when I finally buy Thunderbolt and Wall of Lightning, it'll be a fantastic day. I don't use wards (though it's quite cool hearing from someone who does,) I'm all about the dual casting.

 

[Zolo-Shea]

the only way of increasing destruction damage outright is the new dragon priest masks in dragonborn, theres 1 for each element, and the augmented element perks. theres also the aspect of terror glitch. you could reduce destruction costs to help or drink a fortify restoration potion and equip the zahkriisos mask and that will boost the damage increase. I recommend you go to the kolbjorn barrow in dragonborn and get the ring of arcana, it gives you 2 new spells, freeze which slows your targets down a lot and ignite which is the best spell in the game, its a really low cost apprentice fire spell with stackable damage over time, simply dual cast 3 ignites and an elder dragon will die in seconds before it can even land, its also so cheap that you dont need reduced cost enchantments and you can use a different enchantment instead.

Now that's some sweet, sweet info. Of course there would be "Freeze" and "Ignite," but no lightning-based spell? C'mon with that! In anycase, it sounds like I'm heading to Kolbjorn Barrow. And it's also starting to sound like I'm taking those fire perks afterall...

Thanks for the tip(s), wrighty!

 

[DarthSpecturm]

Fire will always give you the most damage output, since it also deals after burn damage.
Shock is only really useful against mages, due to their higher mana cost (unimportant) and lower damage. (No DoT.)
If your a vampire, the necromage perk in restoration can make your spells stronger, but ultimately, fire in terms of damage will always be stronger than shock.
I find shock spells one of the less useful spells due to the fact that not a lot of enemies are magicka dependent, and those who are normally don't wear armor. However, the master spell for shock is quite useful since it doesn't require much aiming skills to be deadly with it.
If you have the perk stagger, i would advise you to just switch to pyro since you will be able to stagger lock in an AoE effect with fireball. (If you have necromage and is a vampire, fire ball can probably stagger level 81 enemies too.)

 

[Leseras]

Fire will always give you the most damage output, since it also deals after burn damage.
Shock is only really useful against mages, due to their higher mana cost (unimportant) and lower damage. (No DoT.)
If your a vampire, the necromage perk in restoration can make your spells stronger, but ultimately, fire in terms of damage will always be stronger than shock.
I find shock spells one of the less useful spells due to the fact that not a lot of enemies are magicka dependent, and those who are normally don't wear armor. However, the master spell for shock is quite useful since it doesn't require much aiming skills to be deadly with it.
If you have the perk stagger, i would advise you to just switch to pyro since you will be able to stagger lock in an AoE effect with fireball. (If you have necromage and is a vampire, fire ball can probably stagger level 81 enemies too.)

You forgot that shock is also the fastest and easiest element to aim with.

 

[DarthSpecturm]

You forgot that shock is also the fastest and easiest element to aim with.

Sorry, for some reason I am always bias towards the fire element in any game, and yes, you are right of course.
(But I did mention that the master shock spell is the easiest spell in game to aim with and quite powerful too.)
Most of the time I use fire spells due to their low cost so I am not extremely familiar with any shock spells except the novice and master one.
However, fire also lights up flammable liquids. It is not extremely useful, but it is something. Plus, a lot of mobs in skyrim such as daugr are and vampires (if you gotten the dawnguard dlc) are extremely vulnerable to fire. I find flame spells extremely useful at stopping vampires before they kill a npc.
One thing to note about shock is that not many enemies seem to have a resistance to it, making it a good spell to use if you are unsure what race bonus or resistance the enemy have.
(They should totally make it so that shock spells can leech magicka, it would make them at lot more formidable, and make magic duels a lot more interesting.)

 

[Adam Belmont]

I had a dude by the handle of Quarziban who juggled the elements, but that eats up too many perks! I may have to spend time with the perk calculator and see if that's a good idea for Zolo-Shea. By dedicating myself to only one damaging element, I can keep my skill set a little bit broader.



Your last name is Belmont, so I'm guessing you fall in line with those stake-happy Dawnguards. Hmm... Anyway, you got some good points there. My destruction is slowly approaching 70, and when I finally buy Thunderbolt and Wall of Lightning, it'll be a fantastic day. I don't use wards (though it's quite cool hearing from someone who does,) I'm all about the dual casting.

I use the impact bonus too. The stagering bonus is too great to ignore, but sometimes I prefer to be a little more defensive like em mage duels and dragon fights in the ground.
PS: and yes, I'm from Belmont Clan, so if you are a vampire you better be careful!

 

[Leseras]

I use the impact bonus too. The stagering bonus is too great to ignore, but sometimes I prefer to be a little more defensive like em mage duels and dragon fights in the ground.
PS: and yes, I'm from Belmont Clan, so if you are a vampire you better be careful!

Dual casting isn't very efficient. It drains 1.8x the amount you would need to cast two spells.

 

[Adam Belmont]

Dual casting isn't very efficient. It drains 1.8x the amount you would need to cast two spells.

The dual casting is VERY effective if you have the Impact perk. The staggering bonus is almost godlike if you know how to use it.

 

[Leseras]

Or you could just use frost spells. Nothing gets near me but enemy projectiles

 

[Psiberzerker]

Why the need to specialize in 1 element? I mean, if nothing else, you have 2 hands, right? That means, instead of Dual Casting, you could use Combos (Mine is Flaming Familiar, and Ice Storm.) So, you can proc multiple effects at once, the On Fire status, Slow, and Stamina Drain, for instance. There's literally no reason to specialize in 1 element, each has it's own spells with their own advantages. Having a variety of spells makes you more versatile, so you can chose the one right for the fight at hand, not try to build around one for every fight.

By analogy, a Golfer has upward of 20 clubs. The 9 iron is the most powerful, but that doesn't make it the right club for every swing. Nobody putts with a 9 iron, and you'll wear yourself out with one digging deeper into a Sand trap all afternoon... That's pretty much the mentality here, "Which element is the most powerful, so I don't have to invest in the others?" Well, in that case, Fire does the most damage per Magicka. But wait! Pump that Flame Atronach full of Firebolts, and see what happens. Lite her up, roast her man, still nothing? Hmmm. Now, take your fire mage to Solestheim, and try it out on Ash Spawn. Look at all the Dunmer! NPCs do retain their Racial Resistances, BTW.

Also, there are the secondary effects, and tertiary effects from advanced Perks like Intense Flames. Incidentally, with Aspect of Terror, that combo adds 10 points of damage to your fire spells. That it, and it doesn't work for Concentration spells like Flames, Flame Cloak, nor Wall of Flames. If you think it's worth getting Illusion up to 50, and 3 more Perk Points for 10 more damage, knock yourself out, but for the same investment, you could just augment another element.

Disintegrate lowers Health, Armor, and other resistances, just like Marked for Death, and Dragonrend. Not a good plan for a Necromancer, mind you, but if you're fighting them, they can't raise ashed bodies against you, which is kind of nice. With a Spellsword, or similar fighting stylle, Thunderbolt->Critical Charge is an incredibly powerful 1-2 punch. What it doesn't kill outright (With an appropriately powerful weapon) it puts a real good dent in, and staggers for the Coup de Gras. That Draugr Deathlord with Ebony Weapons, and Disarm? Yeah. Used like that, it's much more powerful than the On Fire effect of Incinerate.

Ice Storm with Deep Freeze/Impact is just plain Wrong. Go ahead and perk out Augment Frost (2) so you don't have to cast it as many times, but if you are any good at Kite&Fight tactics, you can get everyone into a line, Slow, and Stagger them, with a chance to Paralyze. Don't just stand there (Unless you're playing a capped out free Destruction Impact Turret) but if you know how to straffe, kite, and control the battlefield by playing keep away, this is a nasty enough combo to perk out Frost all by itself.

 

[Adam Belmont]

Why the need to specialize in 1 element? I mean, if nothing else, you have 2 hands, right? That means, instead of Dual Casting, you could use Combos (Mine is Flaming Familiar, and Ice Storm.) So, you can proc multiple effects at once, the On Fire status, Slow, and Stamina Drain, for instance. There's literally no reason to specialize in 1 element, each has it's own spells with their own advantages. Having a variety of spells makes you more versatile, so you can chose the one right for the fight at hand, not try to build around one for every fight.

By analogy, a Golfer has upward of 20 clubs. The 9 iron is the most powerful, but that doesn't make it the right club for every swing. Nobody putts with a 9 iron, and you'll wear yourself out with one digging deeper into a Sand trap all afternoon... That's pretty much the mentality here, "Which element is the most powerful, so I don't have to invest in the others?" Well, in that case, Fire does the most damage per Magicka. But wait! Pump that Flame Atronach full of Firebolts, and see what happens. Lite her up, roast her man, still nothing? Hmmm. Now, take your fire mage to Solestheim, and try it out on Ash Spawn. Look at all the Dunmer! NPCs do retain their Racial Resistances, BTW.

Also, there are the secondary effects, and tertiary effects from advanced Perks like Intense Flames. Incidentally, with Aspect of Terror, that combo adds 10 points of damage to your fire spells. That it, and it doesn't work for Concentration spells like Flames, Flame Cloak, nor Wall of Flames. If you think it's worth getting Illusion up to 50, and 3 more Perk Points for 10 more damage, knock yourself out, but for the same investment, you could just augment another element.

Disintegrate lowers Health, Armor, and other resistances, just like Marked for Death, and Dragonrend. Not a good plan for a Necromancer, mind you, but if you're fighting them, they can't raise ashed bodies against you, which is kind of nice. With a Spellsword, or similar fighting stylle, Thunderbolt->Critical Charge is an incredibly powerful 1-2 punch. What it doesn't kill outright (With an appropriately powerful weapon) it puts a real good dent in, and staggers for the Coup de Gras. That Draugr Deathlord with Ebony Weapons, and Disarm? Yeah. Used like that, it's much more powerful than the On Fire effect of Incinerate.

Ice Storm with Deep Freeze/Impact is just plain Wrong. Go ahead and perk out Augment Frost (2) so you don't have to cast it as many times, but if you are any good at Kite&Fight tactics, you can get everyone into a line, Slow, and Stagger them, with a chance to Paralyze. Don't just stand there (Unless you're playing a capped out free Destruction Impact Turret) but if you know how to straffe, kite, and control the battlefield by playing keep away, this is a nasty enough combo to perk out Frost all by itself.

I agree with you, that's why I have spend 6 perks in all three elements, but I didn't put any perk in desintegrate, deep freeze and intense flames, in other words I didn't specialize in any of them but I have the top damage in all three. I use shock most of times for the light speed atribute, but it doesn't mean I don't use any fire spells or ice. Against non-magical undead or trolls I use Fire since they are weak against it and against strong warriors I use ice to deplet their Stamina and prevent them from doing power atacks. Magic is pretty situational.

 

[Psiberzerker]

I agree with you, that's why I have spend 6 perks in all three elements, but I didn't put any perk in desintegrate, deep freeze and intense flames, in other words I didn't specialize in any of them but I have the top damage in all three. I use shock most of times for the light speed atribute, but it doesn't mean I don't use any fire spells or ice. Against non-magical undead or trolls I use Fire since they are weak against it and against strong warriors I use ice to deplet their Stamina and prevent them from doing power atacks. Magic is pretty situational.

Trolls aren't particularly Weak Against Fire, from a damage standpoint, 25 points from Lightning Bolt is just as effective, but the On Fire Status counters their Regeneration, once you stack up enough of it. Frost Trolls are Frost Resistant, but I still use it on them (Usually Wall of Frost/Cloak) because of the Drain Stamina effect. They only have Power Attacks (Use Quick Reflexes on them some time) so if you fatigue them enough, they can't attack, just throw hissy fits. (With the DoT of those two spells, they never recover.) Up to you, Fire will kill them quicker, but they hit pretty hard, especially for a Glass Cannon. I'd rather take my time, knowing I'm in no danger, and earn more XP in the process. Likewise, even Frost Dragons can't take off without any Stamina, so if you want to keep them grounded, Wall of Frost can do it. (You have two hands.)

To me, the First Lesson from Destruction 101 is "It's not just Damage." More often than not, spell selection comes down to how I can use the secondary, and tertiary effects, not which one hurts worst.