Can anybody really justify the Stormcloaks actions?

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Every debate regarding the Skyrim Civil War here seems to always end up with a victory for the Imperials, I've yet to see a credible argument that outweighs the cons of an "Independent" Skyrim. So really, is there anyway Ulfric's actions can be justified?

 

[osheao]

lol! what's up mr.

it's simple: the imperials made a treaty that no self-respecting nord could live with. ulfric killed torygg honorably according to custom and the empire plunged into war.

the time of skyrim being a part of the empire ran it's course and now will become independent.

 

[Nuitari]

No, there is no way that his actions can be justified. Stormcloaks are just brutish, racist, Nord barbarians.

 

[i K33L n0085]

I don't care much for politics, the people who tried to cut of my head must die.
I know that an independent skyrim would probably be vulnerable to a Thalmor attack, and that they would probably try to kill every stormcloak they could lay there hands on, but I'm not really scared of them.

I'm the dovahkiin damn it.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

I'm sure if you've all read up on the cowardice and cruelties Ulfric dealt with during the incident with the Forsworn, you might change your minds. While a single, rogue, frustrated captain ordered your execution, the leader of the Stormcloaks himself tortured innocent people to find the enemy, as well as slaughtering men, women and children. All NORDS.

 

[blue 468]

I don't think there was because imo Ulfric is just using the white gold concordant to become high king, and doesn't really care about the people just power, again imo

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

lol! what's up mr.

it's simple: the imperials made a treaty that no self-respecting nord could live with. ulfric killed torygg honorably according to custom and the empire plunged into war.

the time of skyrim being a part of the empire ran it's course and now will become independent.

Again, if they hadn't surrendered there'd be no Empire. Nobody likes the terms, and it's revealed Ulfric is an asset to the Thalmor. I suggest you read up on the topics, because it's the Thalmor that are the real enemy.

And Ulfric shouted during a sword duel, in duels it's simply the two men and their swords.

 

[Kalin of High Rock]

People have a right to fight for their freedom, if they so wish. The desire for freedom and self-rule is justification in and of itself.

However, Ulfric's rebellion doesn't appear to be as popular with the common nord as he suspects or claims. Any legitimacy the Stormcloak movement may have had as altruistic liberators of Skyrim has been tainted by Ulfric's own somewhat suspect ambitions.

 

[Nuitari]

Also it is recorded that when the Forsworn regained the Reach they weren't actually violent people they were in fact looking for a way to become a separate province through peaceful methods. Then they were slaughtered cruelly.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

People have a right to fight for their freedom, if they so wish. The desire for freedom and self-rule is justification in and of itself.

However, Ulfric's rebellion doesn't appear to be as popular with the common nord as he suspects or claims. Any legitimacy the Stormcloak movement may have had as altruistic liberators of Skyrim has been tainted by Ulfric's own somewhat suspect ambitions.

The Stormcloaks are fighting the wrong enemy, by fighting the Empire they only allow the real enemy, the Aldmeri Dominion, to occupy Tamriel even longer.

 

[osheao]

of course, that incident has nothing to do with ulfric's righteous decision to go to war with the imperials, however.

the concordat was an abomination and a just war the result.

ulfric's past doesn't matter. he is a changed man who will free skyrim from the immoral empire.

 

[Kalin of High Rock]

The Stormcloaks are fighting the wrong enemy, by fighting the Empire they only allow the real enemy, the Aldmeri Dominion, to occupy Tamriel even longer.

That's where Ulfric's suspect ambitions come into play. He is a known "asset" to The Dominion, the Thalmor dossier on him is quite enlightening. His involvement with them taints his rebellion and colors his every action with suspicion.

 

[blue 468]

The Stormcloaks are fighting the wrong enemy, by fighting the Empire they only allow the real enemy, the Aldmeri Dominion, to occupy Tamriel even longer.

I agree Ulfric is just making it easier for the Thalmor to destroy the Empire and conquer Tamriel buy forcing the Empire to quell the rebellion

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

of course, that incident has nothing to do with ulfric's righteous decision to go to war with the imperials, however.

the concordat was an abomination and a just war the result.

ulfric's past doesn't matter. he is a changed man who will free skyrim from the immoral empire.

It goes to show Ulfric is an evil and malicious brute. He hasn't changed at all because he still feels the same about anybody who isn't a Nord in Skyrim, simply look at the conditions for the foreigners living in Windhelm. The concordant wasn't an abomination, it gave the Empire a chance to regroup and recover from the atrocities of the Great War. Ulfric doesn't stand a chance at fending off the Thalmor by himself, and an independent Skyrim would be strife with poverty and depression as they'd be getting no imports of food and supplies from the Empire.

 

[osheao]

The Stormcloaks are fighting the wrong enemy, by fighting the Empire they only allow the real enemy, the Aldmeri Dominion, to occupy Tamriel even longer.

i agree that i would have fought alongside the empire to defeat the thalmor first, then, declared independence and fight the empire if they resisted.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

That's where Ulfric's suspect ambitions come into play. He is a known "asset" to The Dominion, the Thalmor dossier on him is quite enlightening. His involvement with them taints his rebellion and colors his every action with suspicion.

Well said, the Thalmor do encourage the Civil War and they want the chaos and destruction going on as it makes their job as an occupying force easier.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

i agree that i would have fought alongside the empire to defeat the thalmor first, then, declared independence and fight the empire if they resisted.

... How about continuing to fight the Thalmor and not the good guys who've always protected Skyrim?

 

[lonewolf]

The stormcloaks sentiments of freedom and hatred of the thalmor are justified imo, but that dosnt mean i think there actions are. Its similar to how germany was during the Wiemar republic. The first world war ended with German land barely being damaged by the war which led to the believe that the government betrayed the public by surrendering to the the allies. The treaty of Versailles was pretty harsh on them to with reparations and such not unlike the WGC in skyrim and the resentment felt by skyrim towards the empire for giving up. A few years later Hitler comes into play with his nationalistic plans after fighting in the first world war, again similar to Ulfric. Both are charismatic and rallied the population to there cause. Ulfrics civil war now is pretty much skyrims version of Hitlers take over of the government. Hell both of them pretty much rig the election or moot in Ulfrics case to there side as well. With ulfrics and the stormcloaks unfair and racist policy towards the dark elves and argonians dosnt make him to much different then the nazis during the early 30s. If Ulfric wins the civil war he says hes taking the fight straight to the thalmor similar to how Germany invaded France the first chance it got. Thats just my take on it though.

 

[osheao]

being evil in one's past and keeping foreigners out of his city during a time of war are not analogous.

the concordat cannot be looked at as anything but an abomination to a true nord! the empire overstepped its authority. the proof is the stormcloak rebellion and it's support throughout the land.

throughout the ages, many have tried to take skyrim from the nords. all have failed and will continue to do so.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

being evil in one's past and keeping foreigners out of his city during a time of war are not analogous.

Both reflect Ulfric's xenophobic and evil nature, no GOOD man has ever oppressed a people because of their race or ethnicity.

the concordat cannot be looked at as anything but an abomination to a true nord! the empire overstepped its authority. the proof is the stormcloak rebellion and it's support throughout the land.

Skyrim is cut clean when it comes to who supports who, that's a fact there and you can argue all you want but the fact is when you load up Skyrim and you talk to the Jarls and people of Skyrim, you'll find it's pretty close. The concordant saved everybody, it saved Skyrim, saved the Empire, saved the humans of Tamriel from a slow and torturous death at the hands of Elven supremacists.

Consider this, Ulfric has no chance of taking the fight to the Aldmeri and that's a fact. The Empire is the only force on Tamriel that can, and with every Nord Legionary struck down by Ulfric's militia the occupation, the genocide, all of it lasts longer.

throughout the ages, many have tried to take skyrim from the nords. all have failed and will continue to do so.

>mfw Snow Elves were there first.