A world without loot. Or, at least...

[BlackRat]

...with less loot.

Am I alone in my belief that the economic system in Bethesda's games is out of whack?
It's way too easy to get rich, way too fast. I personally find it takes a lot of the fun out of the game.... maybe not "fun", perhaps "challenge" is a better word.

I've got amazing armour, amazing weapons, I find more of each at every single turn, and I'm carrying enough gold to buy anything I want at any time I want. I found this to be true in all TES games, and in Bethesda's versions of the FO series.

Am I the only guy that kinda wishes there was more of a struggle? That wishes that a magic wepaon would be an actual treasure as opposed to a "Hey!... another one " kind of discovery?

Should gold and gems have weight?
Would you like to see an actual encumberance system in place?
Maybe an economic model that reacts to how much loot you dump into it? By this time in my game... weapons should be worth about a septim each, I swear I've sold enough weapons to arm every citizen of Skyrim four times over.

Just putting it out for discussion.

 

[bosspatrone]

I agree and disagree... the economic model is definitely broken to be sure, and it is way too easy to throw 5000G at a house with no worries. I would really rather wrestle with the idea of needing a house, but realizing that spending that gold represents a huge chunk of game time I spent earning it.

On the other hand, crypts and tombs are frought with danger that only hardiest can survive, so it makes sense that awesome relics that end up in those places, stay in those places. The townssfolk must think that you are a lunatic to even set foot in such places.

I think the trick to fixing the economy is to make the available gold among merchants lower. This would prevent the player from selling all the extremely valuable, yet weaker that yours, dungeon loot, and then turning around and enchanting, smithing, and potion-making further riches.

I would like to think that that would lead players to make decision about whether or not they should bother to loot a "high value" item if they can't immediately unload it in bulk, but it would probably just turn the players home into Hoarders: Skyrim Edition, as they sell off thing in small quantities or below value, then wait a day and repeat. Maybe if the items the player sold ended up in circulation, especially amongst player enemies, the player would have to think of the cost of making an extra 200G vs the chance of encountering a now OP Necromancer running around somewhere with that staff you sold.

Then again, how would the player know that it was the staff he/she sold 20+ real time hours ago? Ugh... this is complicated. My head hurts.

 

[BlackRat]

See.. now there's an idea... the more crap you sell, the tougher the game gets, as your relics and treasures find their way into the hands of bandits and mages.

I see the whole economic model in terms of my "waaaaaaaaay back a long time ago been-a-long-time-since-dem-days" AD&D sessions (first and second edition... for those who want the time frame reference )

One "DM" was the kind of guy that loved magic stuff... by lvl 12 we were laden with vorpal blades and holy avengers and bags of holding. We were death incarnate... and shortly after, we kind of reached a consensus that we all wanted to reroll new characters and start over. So we did, enter new DM. Magic was rare, very rare. And we learned to treasure that non-magical "well crafted" blade with it's non-magical +1 bonus. Fights were much more even, and we had reasons to dungeon dive and put ourselves at risk, if we knew there might a be a relic in the hoard ten levels deep in the dungeon. Peasants and bandits weren't laden with gold pcs, usually they carried copper, maybe the occasional silver pc. Which made sense... what farmer gets paid in gold pcs?

I find that, as I climb in levels in a Bethesda RPG, i always reach a point where my amazing bow gets tossed into the chest since i found another, much more amazing bow. Or I start hoarding armour just in case I want to change classes later etc. I become a walking cuisinart, with enough cash to decimate entire economies.

I kinda wish that Bethesda would incorporate a "hardcore" mode (and no... FO: NV is not a good example, there was nothing hardcore about it) that set these sorts of limits. Lower cash, less magic, etc. If i dump 1000s of spetims in to te local economy, there should be consequences... vendor pricing rises, vendor purchasing drops. I SHOULD find cool stuff a mile underground in some long ignored Dwemer ruin, absolutely... if the Falmer haven't depleted it's power or dropped it down a chasm somewhere. But the fight to get it should be equally as epic as the item itself.

And what street level vendor is going to recognize such an artifact for it's true worth? Maybe a reclusive mage might have interest? Maybe a wandering Khajiit might give you a pittance of it's value and send it south for resale?

Like you said, it all gets very complicated, and my head hurts. I try to set my own limits on what I pick up, what i sell and what i carry... but all my magic items seem so very... mundane.

 

[bosspatrone]

The problem with all of these ideas is that it puts the player in balance with the world instead of letting him swoop in like some mythical Greek god. Most people do not want to be just another soul in Skyrim, they want to know that their most menial of achievements seems god-like compared to that of in-game NPC's. Beth makes no secret of it; making sure to give you your very own star-crossed prophecy to fulfill in every new entry of the series. Admittedly, changing that would be like making a movie where James Bond was a postal worker (no offense to postal workers, but I think we can all agree that you are not globe-trotting super spies).

I may sound like a broken record on this one, but I am really looking forward to when all the amazing mods bring that "hardcore" mode to Skyrim.

 

[BIGwooly]

I totally agree that the economic system in Skyrim (and Oblivion and Morrowind) is too easy and presents no real challenge. To get around that I simply play with restrictions. One of these is to limit my carry ability to 10% of what the game allows. This will prevent you from coming back from a dungeon with a million things to sell.

I posted my other restrictions in another thread you might be interested in checking out.

http://skyrimforum.com/threads/skyrim-hardcore-playstyle.2832/

 

[spoolx]

Its not hard to make the game more hardcore..

For example, I keep every single piece of magical gear I find.. I will probably never use it but I keep it anyhow. You could apply the same logic to gems, ores, pelts, etc etc.. so where the only stuff you sell is gear you get off enemies.

You will still end up with alot of money but not nearly as much.

 

[Wanderer]

The simple work around is to not take speech perks. This will lower your resell value and increase the cost of goods. My first play through I was gung-ho about making money, however as stated the economy is out of balance. Money is easy to come by. I just dug/bought all the iron ore I could find and transmutted it to gold ore and made rings out of it to enchant and use up all those pretty rocks.

My current character is not taking any speech perks to make money a little harder to come by but I still have over 30,000 gold at lvl 43. On the flip side I have used this character to try and figure out the potions and have found that quite profittable.

Next I will have to learn to cook.

 

[BlackRat]

I'm level 35, I have collected 156,000 gold over the course of my game, and currently have 60,000 in my possession. I have taken zero speech perks.

 

[bosspatrone]

Its not hard to make the game more hardcore..

I see comments like this, and I feel it kind of misses the point. Any player can place as many restrictions on their play as they choose, but the most important missing ingredient is consequence. Imagine if vampire's could go out in the daylight and never had to feed and never changed appearance; that if you wanted those things, you would have to go to "Imagination Land."

If I commit crimes in a hold, BOOM!, ensue with the fines! I am held to task for my misdeeds. If I choose a side in the civil war, BOOM!, I make new enemies and new allies all over Skyrim.

When I empose restrictions, say having to eat and sleep in a somewhat realistic manner, if I forget or lapse, no boom... no consequence. Ultimately, my limitations are meaningless constructs. That knowledge sits on my shoulder like a little devil who whisper's in my ear, tempting me to just give and drink 20 potions in battle, fast travel everywhere, exploit every bug.

Making some of these roleplaying elements at least optional is like the warmest-gooey cookie for a person like me. It says "I respect the fact you want to actually play a role in this amazing role-playing game that we have made. The game will now acknowledge these extra-parameters you have set. You are not crazy."

Building these things into the game would be stupidly simplistic compared to most of the other programming jujitsu that Beth pulls off to make all of the Skyrim magic happen. It would also let PS3/XBox people get in on warm and gooey role-playing cookie since they will likely not be able access mods.

Definitely not picking a fight spoolx, I completely respect your opinion, I just have a compulsion to get my rant on sometimes.

 

[bosspatrone]

I'm level 35, I have collected 156,000 gold over the course of my game, and currently have 60,000 in my possession. I have taken zero speech perks.

Same

 

[spoolx]

I'm level 35, I have collected 156,000 gold over the course of my game, and currently have 60,000 in my possession. I have taken zero speech perks.

Same here, I have no speech perks, and I never use gear that enhances sell price

 

[A.Castaneda]

"That wishes that a magic wepaon would be an actual treasure as opposed to a "Hey!... another one " kind of discovery?"

I agree with this completely. Another option would be not being able to enchant weapons and armor yourself and have to pay to have it done.