Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Rimfaxe96]

I love how deeply the writers of the game interlaced the game and the story. I sometimes don't pay enough attention to dialogue and I don't follow from story to story. It's neat to see when I do, and very cool to see how deeply others get into it. Love Skyrim... bought the 5 pack of TES games a year ago and haven't gotten to the others cause I'm not done with skyrim yet

Thing is Skyrim is just a fifth (or including TESO, sixth) of a whole Universe filled with lore, and that's what keeps me hooked. Even in games when there's barely any backstory given I tend to brood and ponder about it for a month or two. Then I got into Elder Scrolls and yeah, I think I'll be hooked for ~5 additional years after the last TES game, so it's gonna be a few years.

 

[Ancano]

Later on he explains why he does it in this bit of dialogue;
Elisif: "As you know, Solitude's coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. Thane Erikur, you have a strong head for business. What do you suggest?"
Erikur: "This is an unfortunate but unavoidable ebb in revenue. But as long as we continue to support the Empire, our sacrifices will be well rewarded."
Bryling: "Listen to you, speaking of sacrifice. You've never gone hungry a day in your life, Erikur!"
Elisif: "And what would my impetuous Thane Bryling suggest, instead?"
Bryling: "Simple. Let the Empire fight its own war, with its own funds, and without hijacking our supplies and soldiers. Let Haafingar rebuild."
Erikur: "My lady... Surely you're not that naive. Such foolishness would only leave us defenseless. The rebels would storm the palace in an afternoon."
Bryling: "The Stormcloaks only rebel because the Empire uses Skyrim as its personal larder. The more they take, the more support the rebels gain!"
Elisif: "That is quite enough. Perhaps I will raise these issues when I have an audience with General Tullius."

---

You shouldn't skip lines either. Why are they taking supplies and needing soldiers? That's right, because Solitude itself barely has a defense, they try to keep their land functional. As part of the Empire they are under the protection of the Imperial Legion, but even they can't live from love and air, they need supplies to be functional themselves. In the meantime Ulfric has no backup at all, and doesn't give a crap about his people's needs, he'll sacrifice everything for his rebellion - everything but himself.

Necromancers have been a problem everywhere, and they usually keep to themselves. i don't see them being a huge issue in the coming future.

There's a crazy Altmer necromancer with necrophilia having his own residence in Stormcloak territory. And this Caller chick you visit from a Winterhold quest. When criminals are able to build up their own territories without interferences or consequences something's wrong, don't you think?

Golly gee, I guess we really are screwed! I mean it's not like we're a culture of seafaring people who have benefited from nautical trade for centuries. Oh woe is me! What are we gonna DO!?

But who are you going to trade with, hm? Guess you'll have to beg the Thalmor for supplies after all. But considering they already funded a rebellious group in Cyrodiil they might actually do it.

 

[Ancano]

Soo... after you two have gone back and forth like this, quite intelligently and interestingly amusing to be sure, is the questions solved? Imperials or stormcloaks? I don't want to support any senile idiots or spoiled grieving widows, so is there a solution that allows me to join forces against the AD? I haven't explored this quest line in any of my games and have been looking to lately.

I'm afraid the question has already been answered, although the answer is not what you may think. One side won't accept it, the other is in denial over it. Hint: Cicero.​

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

You shouldn't skip lines either. Why are they taking supplies and needing soldiers? That's right, because Solitude itself barely has a defense, they try to keep their land functional. As part of the Empire they are under the protection of the Imperial Legion, but even they can't live from love and air, they need supplies to be functional themselves.

Solitude has the best defense, are you fuc*ing kidding me? Situated on a hill with a rocky crag below them, i.e. Natural Defense is on point. On top of that cavalcade of cold sharp stony death is Solitude, the industrious bastion of a city protected by multitudinous walls higher than the tallest giant. Oh and what you really HAVE to explain to me is how the Stormcloaks are going to STORM Solitude if Erikur stops funding them. He's full of shi* that Erikur, he's a business who only cares for the pitter-patter of coin. A disgrace to all things Nordic.

In the meantime Ulfric has no backup at all, and doesn't give a crap about his people's needs, he'll sacrifice everything for his rebellion - everything but himself

An Impenetrable nation doesn't need much backup don't you think? Oh Yeah, THAT'S why he got captured fighting besides his soldiers. He's obviously a coward. Step up your game.

and doesn't give a crap about his people's needs

"I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil. I fight for their wives and children, who's names I heard whispered in their last breaths. I fight for we few who did come home, only to find our country full of strangers wearing familiar faces. I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves! I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing. I fight... because I must."―Ulfric Stormcloak

he'll sacrifice everything for his rebellion - everything but himself

Obviously the people want this. It would have erupted with or without Ulfric. Who is he to deny the call of the Nords?

There's a crazy Altmer necromancer with necrophilia having his own residence in Stormcloak territory. And this Caller chick you visit from a Winterhold quest. When criminals are able to build up their own territories without interferences or consequences something's wrong, don't you think?

Again, he'll keep to himself as detestable as his profane actions are. Really dont see him interfering with the Stormcloaks all the way out in those Ice Fields, nor do I see him building up an army anytime soon.

But who are you going to trade with, hm? Guess you'll have to beg the Thalmor for supplies after all. But considering they already funded a rebellious group in Cyrodiil they might actually do it.

Uhh anyone who will accept trade? Morrowind, Hammerfell, High Rock... Hell, The Empire will probably still do business, obviously they have things they want in Skyrim and we have things they want. Do you know how trade works?

 

[Ancano]

Soo... after you two have gone back and forth like this, quite intelligently and interestingly amusing to be sure, is the questions solved? Imperials or stormcloaks? I don't want to support any senile idiots or spoiled grieving widows, so is there a solution that allows me to join forces against the AD? I haven't explored this quest line in any of my games and have been looking to lately.

Something... something... something... ah there it is.

So... on these 'senile idiots' and 'spoiled grieving widows'... you claim to seek a solution that allows you to join forces against, well... the Thalmor and their supporters.

Don't you realize these 'senile idiots' and as you say, 'spoiled grieving widows' are some of the very people who worship Talos the most? Yet say you don't seek to protect them.

Indeed, most of the people you mentioned were widowed from veterans fighting in various wars instigated by Thalmor with survivors returning heart broken from their defeat at the Thalmor's hands and eventually themselves becoming old and senile.

Furthermore, these veterans now serve as living-proof of our superiority over man. Still, is someone who has lost part of their family in war and received compensation really considered 'spoiled'?

My Ari-El can't this accursed Empire and these wretched fanatics come to an end soon enough???

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Judgement of character? Maven doesn't openly present herself as a threat, and most of what you hear about her is hearsay or rumor. There is no real evidence against Maven, besides people fearing her.

I don't know if you know this but when people fear someone who holds power, that should be an obvious sign of ill-doings.

The citizens of Solitude are Imperial citizens, citizens of the Empire.

Ships filled with pay arrive at Solitude. Taxes have always gone towards the Legion and Empire since Septim days, and during times of war most resources are devoted to the war effort.

Skyrim is part of the Empire. It is easier to use resources at hand than waiting weeks and months for shipments to arrive from abroad. Though for the Empire to be in the right in your mind, the Legion in Skyrim should be idiots who sit around waiting for everything to come from Cyrodiil.

I think Erikur makes it clear that HE'S funding this war for personal gain. I don't think he really believes in that Stormcloak storming the gates nonsense.

Centuries under the Empire.

How do you think Skyrim got resources like food before the Empire? Did it just magically apparate from the snow?

In the Fourth Era, the only trade vessels are buying from the EETC or coming from Shatter-Shield's Company which will fail since the only reason they were doing well was a deal they had with pirates who get destroyed by the EETC. Also with the Argonians now stealing from them in rebellion against the treatment they get from the Nords.

Yeah, you're right. I REALLY don't see an independent nation with many resources and damn near INFINITE knowledge at sea getting many offers of trade or making a trading company of their own. WHAT WAS I THINKING?

 

[Ancano]

Judgement of character? Maven doesn't openly present herself as a threat, and most of what you hear about her is hearsay or rumor. There is no real evidence against Maven, besides people fearing her.

I don't know if you know this but when people fear someone who holds power, that should be an obvious sign of ill-doings.

The citizens of Solitude are Imperial citizens, citizens of the Empire.

Ships filled with pay arrive at Solitude. Taxes have always gone towards the Legion and Empire since Septim days, and during times of war most resources are devoted to the war effort.

Skyrim is part of the Empire. It is easier to use resources at hand than waiting weeks and months for shipments to arrive from abroad. Though for the Empire to be in the right in your mind, the Legion in Skyrim should be idiots who sit around waiting for everything to come from Cyrodiil.

I think Erikur makes it clear that HE'S funding this war for personal gain. I don't think he really believes in that Stormcloak storming the gates nonsense.

Centuries under the Empire.

How do you think Skyrim got resources like food before the Empire? Did it just magically apparate from the snow?

In the Fourth Era, the only trade vessels are buying from the EETC or coming from Shatter-Shield's Company which will fail since the only reason they were doing well was a deal they had with pirates who get destroyed by the EETC. Also with the Argonians now stealing from them in rebellion against the treatment they get from the Nords.

Yeah, you're right. I REALLY don't see an independent nation with many resources and damn near INFINITE knowledge at sea getting many offers of trade or making a trading company of their own. WHAT WAS I THINKING?

Sounds alot like the Summerset Isles.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

They endorsed Titus Mede. Didn't take part open rebellion, but backed his claim politically.

After seven long, bloody years the Stormcrown Interregnum was ended when a Colovian warlord by the name of Titus Mede seized the crown. Whether he had rightful claim or not is moot. Without Titus Mede, there would not be an Empire today. He proved a shrewd and capable leader, such that Skyrim endorsed him as Emperor.

They chose him to lead them.

The last time Skyrim openly rebelled against the Empire it did not fair well.

We backed him because we didn't like the other guy because nobody liked the other guy. It's not as if we provided him with troops.

The jarls of Skyrim and the petty kings of High Rock were the first to fall. - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Wars

Read the whole page, the alliance was broken after Talos' victory over the Reachmen. The Nords joined him after Sancre Tor.

Talos stormed Old Hroldan with the armies of Skyrim at his back. This and the likelihood of there being a war between the armies of Tiber Septim and the Nords are slim at best since we have NO records of any battles or bloodshed between the two. What likely ended up happening was the recognition of Talos as Dragonborn by the Nords which then came about the proceeding alliance between them.

That the Empire supports whoever can rule.

the Empire supports whoever is loyal. Ulfric was loyal to the Empire before the Rebellion. Obviously competence isn't on their agenda considering you support Siddgeir.

And? The Legion has no say in who becomes High King or Queen. They're backing Elisif's claim, which the Stormcloaks are rejecting. All of the Jarls have claim, and the Empire wants it settled.

And Ulfric fears this because he fears the Moot will be biased towards the Imperials.

Shame you didn't stand up to High King Istlod who agreed for Skyrim. Had to wait for the boy to get the chair.

Istlod was a competent ruler.

Did you read the document past line 4?
Falk: "We know full well about your investment in shipping ventures, Erikur. I've also heard troubling rumors about dealings between you and the crew of that pirate ship, the Red Wave. Thankfully, Jarl Elisif cares far less about your lost profits than she does about winning the war!"
Erikur: "The Jarl would be wise to remember that it is her thanes - and my profits - that are paying for this war."

Everyone is paying for the war. Skyrim is under martial law, the Military have control of the resources which has been established since the Second Era under Imperial requisition policy.

Erikur makes wealth for Solitude, Solitude pays tax to the Legion. Which costs increase or decrease depending on the situation.

They developed and maintained a system of garrisons throughout Tamriel, manning and supplying each in accordance with the threats they faced - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Imperial_Legion

Fair enough, but maybe, just maybe, you should stop USING the people of a land far far away to your own personal benefit, and fight your own goddamn war.

Really? A corrupt Thane = Imperial Legion too? You're grasping here, provinces fund the Legions that has been established since Morrowind.

It's just funny what's overlooked by the "innocent widow" to achieve her selfish goals.

Stormcloaks conscript guards too? So what point are you making.

Ulfric doesn't. He simply receives troops from that Dickhole up North. Galmar makes it clear; "You mistake me. I'm not saying no - just wondering about your intentions. We're not looking for sellswords. The Stormcloaks need dedicated men and women who're devoted to the cause and willing to die for it."

Skyrim = Empire. Resources Skyrim spends in the war = resources the Empire spends. That is what being part of the Empire is son.

I just think the citizens of the Central Empire should be paying for it. We'll see how they like the war in Skyrim then.

We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos.

I know I say this a lot but one man does not constitute an entire province, especially one that lives in an isolated Village in the middle of the wilderness. But hey, I'll bite and counter it with this: When you ask him why the Thalmor has a right to arrest Talos worshippers, he will say: "It's from that treaty that ended the Great War, remember, when the Emperor was forced by the Thalmor to outlaw Talos worship. We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down. Dragging people off in the middle of the night... one of the main causes of this war, if you ask me."

I'd have thought religious people understood sacrifice.

Id have thought you wouldn't be such an insensitive prick

That is the most stupid bullpl*** you have ever written, and that is something.

Wow, abrasive. But can you answer the question?

Talos was banned after five years of destructive warfare. Hundreds of thousands dead, homes destroyed, families ruined and countless innocents raped and tortured and left homeless. Where was Talos then?

Thats cool, but can you answer the question

What do you do when millions look to you for safety and peace, and you can no longer hold up the fight. You need to recover and rebuild, to aid your countless citizens who are needing you and you can barely protect them.

Please answer the question that I posed to you

That is what makes the Empire good, because they can swallow their pride and make the sacrifice to save the many.

Can you answer the fuc*ing question you evasive piece of plops? Or are you just going to continuously dodge it. What. Would. You. Do?

In the First Era perhaps, except it is now the Fourth Era where races have mingled. You don't just undo two Eras of working together because your race has more people there, and therefor you should come first.

That's how it works in every province, though

It is not how things are under the Empire, and the Stormcloaks are just backwards fanatics, no better than the Alessian Order.

We're not burning down temples here alright. It's not just about religion, it's about a few more things, obviously a house trained obedient dog wouldn't understand.

Many joined willingly, conscripts fighting against an elven invasion. You do what you have to do.

Did you not try and argue with me that men of the Old Holds were mosly conscripts? Now you're going the other way around.

In time it can be.

They prefer guerrilla tactics. They aren't an organized fighting force.

Seems the Empire has beaten the Dominion more than they have beaten the Empire.

When you were fighting the first dominion you couldn't win without the Numidium.

Except your workforce are busy being soldiers.

Yes because we'll conscript everyone in the entire province.

Gameply or lore wise?

Well, gameplay. how devastating were dragons in lore[/quote]

So their camps in other Holds don't exist? I seem to recall one in Whiterun.

Maybe their maps are all fuc*ed up, it's not as if they have a basic knowledge of borders, most of them are savages.

Still attack towns.

Which are quickly resolved.

Empire has the Council of Healers, hundreds of Mages and conduct extensive research on disease.

So good luck to you.

Yeah we have healers too, so mutual success in the future to you.

Not to create drama.

I mean when he was, y'know, dying?

Ulfric: "This is it for you. Any last words before I send you to Oblivion?"
Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted."
Galmar: "What who wanted?"
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."
Ulfric: "It's a little more than a rebellion, don't you think?"
Galmar: "Heh."
Tullius: "We aren't the bad guys you know."
Ulfric: "Maybe not, but you certainly aren't the good guys."
Tullius: "Perhaps you're right. But then what does that make you?"
Is that not toying with or at least attempting to toy with someone?

Still wanted me in it.

Yeah, what better way to appeal to the Nords then with the fuc*ing Dragonborn. Politics, man.

Legion is pretty straight forward.

Mmmm what is that man had to do to join the Pennitus Oculatus again? Kill a defenseless old man with no information on him? Very straight forward.

When Tullius loses reliable communication with Cyrodiil, until he takes the Rift?

What are messenger Pigeons?

Nords follow their hearts, she's a Breton and a Mage. Not exactly the sort who do things on a whim.

Can't refute that, then again he wasn't much of a Nord.

When they weren't mistrusting and refusing to trade by race.

uhh citation pls

The Silver-Bloods are to be sure.

Then we both are and we can rejoice in the RAPING of Markarth's silver, but at least when the Silver Bloods do it, it goes to Skyrim.

What ships? You mean the ONE that wrecked off the coast of Hjaalmarch? Yeah, THAT'S doing them a lot of good.

"With the war, many more ships come through these docks. Loaded with weapons and pay, but few people."

Inadvertently proving my point again i see

Hah Hah, wrong.
Erikur: "The Jarl would be wise to remember that it is her thanes - and my profits - that are paying for this war."

He pays taxes to Solitude, who pay to the Legion. Erikur owns several establishments in Solitude who pay him rent, who in turn pays the crown, who in turn pays the Legion.

Tax.

Coffers. Speciffically mentioned...[/quote]

It went over yours.

Solitudes coffers have been drained by the war effort.

Provinces pay for the Military, as do countries in our world. I'm sure the United States doesn't drain money to pay for war

Ever heard of Vietnam?

I'm sure the Roman Empire never had provinces pay for wars too... Oh wait.

Because that makes it morally acceptable, if the ROMANS did it.

Third Empire of Tamriel.

err were you trying to say something

So the Stormcloaks don't conscript the guards of Holds, oh wait, they do.

"I swear, that Aeri and her men would make fine Stormcloak recruits. Pity we can't spare the lumber to conscript them. Here. Take this. For your time and all that."

Oh look, citizens can be conscripted too.

Yeah, they can be conscripted by Jarl Dickhole and his band of merry men. Ulfric doesn't do it to his citizens, while Tulius delights in it.

Bolgeir: "We lost another five guardsmen, my Jarl. If General Tullius continues to conscript our men and send them off to battle, we'll have none left to protect the city."
Elisif: "Yes, I know. The general acted with my blessing. It is vital that we bring Ulfric to justice, but that cannot happen until his army of Stormcloaks is defeated utterly."
Bolgeir: "Told you that, did he? I'm sworn to protect you, my Jarl, but I'm the last line of defense. The first line is the walls around this city and the men who patrol them. Men who, I might add, we're precious short on."
Elisif: "I'm aware of that, Bolgeir, and I appreciate your dedication. However, if we lose the war, the guardsmen of Solitude will make little difference in the end."
Bolgeir: "No disrespect toward the general, but sometimes I wonder if he's got your best interests at heart. In any case he won't be turnin' me into no Imperial soldier. I know my place, and it's at your side."
Elisif: "It comforts me to know that, Bolgeir."

Lol. You keep mentioning conscripts, majority of the time recruits join willingly. Except in times of dire need, or if they're wards of the crown then they must serve a tour.

So the rebellion is not a time of Dire Need?

Caps lock doesn't make your argument.

It is made to look like wear and tear of an old book. Grab your Skyrim copy, look at the cover. Load up your game, find the in-game book titled "Book of the Dragonborn".

Stop toying with semantics. It's always been the symbol of the Empire, it should also be noted that it talks about the Dragonborn and it's connections to the Empire in the book
"The connection with the rulers of the Empire was thus there from the beginning - only those of the dragon blood were able to wear the Amulet of Kings and light the Dragonfires. All the legitimate rulers of the Empire have been Dragonborn - the Emperors and Empresses of the first Cyrodilic Empire founded by Alessia; Reman Cyrodiil and his heirs; and of course Tiber Septim and his heirs, down to our current Emperor, His Majesty Pelagius Septim IV."

SIDE NOTE: I made a few Edits. Enter can fluff with an entire post if you aren't careful

 

[DrunkenMage]

I don't know if you know this but when people fear someone who holds power, that should be an obvious sign of ill-doings.

Except Maven doesn't announce herself openly, or air her dirty deeds. You get hearsay and rumor. Laila's court is also controlled by Maven.

I think Erikur makes it clear that HE'S funding this war for personal gain. I don't think he really believes in that Stormcloak storming the gates nonsense.

He has no choice. His profits go to Solitude which go towards the Legion. Erikur makes it clear that he has no control over any "funding" and he's also bitching when the Legion is going to levy trade ships which upset his personal side deals.

When Erikur states the Thanes are paying for the war, he is talking about the tax they pay Elisif. Bryling and Erikur own various properties. Erikur gets rent from half the businesses in Solitude and Bryling owns an entire mine and several houses.

Erikur: "The Jarl would be wise to remember that it is her thanes - and my profits - that are paying for this war."

You read that and in your mind he's funding for gain, that he's giving money out of free will. The Thanes are paying tax to Elisif who is paying Tullius because Tullius is incharge of resources as the appointed Military Governor of Skyrim.

How do you think Skyrim got resources like food before the Empire? Did it just magically apparate from the snow?

Before the Empire, when they were allied with Morrowind and Blackmarsh? Or before that when they were part of the Second Empire? Or before that when the Nords controlled High Rock, Morrowind and parts of Cyrodiil? Or during the time when the Nords would raid provinces?

Food doesn't grow easily in Skyrim, hence why the Nord army who aided Alessia never returned to Skyrim. They were offered fetire lands in Cyrodiil to help the Imperials fight the elves, which they settled.

Food also wasn't being raided or destroyed by them dragons. Skyrim is also having a harsh long winter apparently, so it too lowers crop rate. As does civil war, since armies on the march consume a lot.

Yeah, you're right. I REALLY don't see an independent nation with many resources and damn near INFINITE knowledge at sea getting many offers of trade or making a trading company of their own. WHAT WAS I THINKING?

An independent nation that was just ravaged by Civil War and Dragons, where every Hold is quite poor and weak from lack of soldiers to protect any shipments effectively. Where all the merchants have mostly fled?

Yes, I see them getting tons of offers. Hopefully only by Nords, because them Stormcloaks are a little untrusting.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Sounds alot like the Summerset Isles.

Well maybe if you weren't trying to exterminate my culture we could come to some sort of Trade Agreement.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Except Maven doesn't announce herself openly, or air her dirty deeds. You get hearsay and rumor. Laila's court is also controlled by Maven.

She doesn't need to, it should be obvious. Five paces into the city and a guy straight up tells you Maven's in good with the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood

He has no choice. His profits go to Solitude which go towards the Legion. Erikur makes it clear that he has no control over any "funding" and he's also bitching when the Legion is going to levy trade ships which upset his personal side deals.

When Erikur states the Thanes are paying for the war, he is talking about the tax they pay Elisif. Bryling and Erikur own various properties. Erikur gets rent from half the businesses in Solitude and Bryling owns an entire mine and several houses.

Erikur: "The Jarl would be wise to remember that it is her thanes - and my profits - that are paying for this war."

You read that and in your mind he's funding for gain, that he's giving money out of free will. The Thanes are paying tax to Elisif who is paying Tullius because Tullius is incharge of resources as the appointed Military Governor of Skyrim.

Elisif: "As you know, Solitude's coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. Thane Erikur, you have a strong head for business. What do you suggest?"
Erikur: "This is an unfortunate but unavoidable ebb in revenue. But as long as we continue to support the Empire, our sacrifices will be well rewarded."
Definitely sounds like he's funding them because he wants to. Apparently the Empire also will NOT protect them if they don't pay up. Well That's fair, you greedy bastards sure are judicious.

Before the Empire, when they were allied with Morrowind and Blackmarsh? Or before that when they were part of the Second Empire? Or before that when the Nords controlled High Rock, Morrowind and parts of Cyrodiil? Or during the time when the Nords would raid provinces?

Pretty sure you missed a few eras of time in which there was no central Empire in which everyone can benefit from.

Food doesn't grow easily in Skyrim, hence why the Nord army who aided Alessia never returned to Skyrim. They were offered fetire lands in Cyrodiil to help the Imperials fight the elves, which they settled.

I know that that's why I never argued against it...

An independent nation that was just ravaged by Civil War and Dragons, where every Hold is quite poor and weak from lack of soldiers to protect any shipments effectively. Where all the merchants have mostly fled?

Yes, I see them getting tons of offers. Hopefully only by Nords, because them Stormcloaks are a little untrusting.

Did the Civil War and the Dragons just eat up all the natural resources still firmly rooted in Skyrim's soil? And I'm pretty sure that in a time of hardship we can look past someone's race, not all of us are "Barabaric Racists" as you Imperials would seem to suggest.

 

[DrunkenMage]

We backed him because we didn't like the other guy because nobody liked the other guy. It's not as if we provided him with troops.

There were many people fighting, they endorsed only Mede.

Talos stormed Old Hroldan with the armies of Skyrim at his back. This and the likelihood of there being a war between the armies of Tiber Septim and the Nords are slim at best since we have NO records of any battles or bloodshed between the two. What likely ended up happening was the recognition of Talos as Dragonborn by the Nords which then came about the proceeding alliance between them.

Doesn't matter, the alliance was broken after Old Hroldan fell. The armies of Skyrim belonged to the Nord nobles who feared the expansion of the Imperials again. Talos being Dragonborn doesn't mean they won't fight against him when his politics differs from theirs.

Stormcloaks will try and kill an Empire sided Dragonborn. They don't grovel at your feet.

the Empire supports whoever is loyal. Ulfric was loyal to the Empire before the Rebellion. Obviously competence isn't on their agenda considering you support Siddgeir.

Isn't on the Stormcloak agenda since they support Laila and Skald. Take what you can get in politics.

And Ulfric fears this because he fears the Moot will be biased towards the Imperials.

He can't risk losing, that is his issue. Nordic Tradition only matters when it will benefit him.

Istlod was a competent ruler.

And Ulfric isn't.

Fair enough, but maybe, just maybe, you should stop USING the people of a land far far away to your own personal benefit, and fight your own goddamn war.

Land far away from what? Skyrim is part of the Empire. Ulfric is fighting against the Western Holds. There have been Legions in Skyrim for 600+ years, Nords have been joining these Legions for just as long. The Imperial Legion doesn't discriminate, all races are found within the Legions.

The Legion makes weapons in Skyrim, so what? They make them everywhere. The Legion has armor made in Skyrim, so what? Soldiers need to be fitted, adjustments and repairs needed. The Legion is stationed in Skyrim, it makes perfect sense for things to be done at hand.

Blacksmiths being commissioned to create weapons and armor isn't anything new, it gives them good steady work at any rate.

It's just funny what's overlooked by the "innocent widow" to achieve her selfish goals.

What is overlooked? Erikur has a side deal with a pirate Captain?

Ulfric doesn't. He simply receives troops from that Dickhole up North. Galmar makes it clear; "You mistake me. I'm not saying no - just wondering about your intentions. We're not looking for sellswords. The Stormcloaks need dedicated men and women who're devoted to the cause and willing to die for it."

And he uses them. Solitude Guards being sent to the front lines is no different. They're able bodied men and women, know how to use a sword.

Hold Guards are not sellswords, they're sworn to fight for their Jarl. The Jarls in the East have sworn fealty to Ulfric, their soldiers thus serve him too.

I just think the citizens of the Central Empire should be paying for it. We'll see how they like the war in Skyrim then.

Ships loaded with pay arrive from the "Central Empire". You're using our coins. So unless we're taking your Skyrim peso, quit bitching. I'm sure the chests of gold will arrive after the war.

I know I say this a lot but one man does not constitute an entire province, especially one that lives in an isolated Village in the middle of the wilderness. But hey, I'll bite and counter it with this: When you ask him why the Thalmor has a right to arrest Talos worshippers, he will say: "It's from that treaty that ended the Great War, remember, when the Emperor was forced by the Thalmor to outlaw Talos worship. We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down. Dragging people off in the middle of the night... one of the main causes of this war, if you ask me."

You skipped a line. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down.

It used to take the Thalmor seven days of someone shouting about Talos in public to get arrested. Besides the Justiciars are stretched thin and have limited resources. Bandits are killing more people than the Thalmor.

Bandits are also dragging people away in the middle of the night, you have a giant kidnapping operation in Eastmarch. Your own capital has one of the most organized and well funded bandit groups in the entire province. Bandits and shady mercenaries all the way to Windhelm are signing on with them.

Id have thought you wouldn't be such an insensitive prick

They can do what other people in Skyrim do, keep it to themselves. The Talos Priests after Imperial Victory go on about how they'll defy the Thalmor and worship Talos in their hearts. Could have done that the first time around.

Wow, abrasive. But can you answer the question?

Thats cool, but can you answer the question

Please answer the question that I posed to you

Can you answer the fuc*ing question you evasive piece of pl***? Or are you just going to continuously dodge it. What. Would. You. Do?

Be thankful I'm not a fat fl*ff like the rebel brother who is eating all the ice cream he wants? Your question is bullplops.

Here how about we change your question a bit more: You like eating ice cream, and eat it all the time whatnot. One day your house is invaded and your father beaten up, and after a large fight a truce is agreed. These men ban you from ice cream. You don't really pay much attention to it and eat ice cream in secret, and your father looks the other way. Your brother then starts eating ice cream more openly and shouting about eating ice cream because he's a fat rebel who thinks only about himself. These men get tougher and you can no longer get ice cream secretly, so your brother decides to attack your mother because she represents the authority of your father when he isn't there. These men enjoy this and decide to indirectly aid your brother as he destroys your home and your father's things. Then he tells you you're with him or against him, no middle ground. You help him destroy everything you know, or he'll destroy you. What do you do?

After this little victory over who gets ice cream, in your trashed house, the father leaves and then your brother suddenly goes "Oh, what if they just come back?" screen goes black and then it says the End...? dun dun dun.

That's how it works in every province, though

No it doesn't. Unless it is Morrowind or the Aldmeri Dominion now. Cyrodiil and the mankind provinces of the Empire has had all races in positions of power and never focued on a single ethnic group. All citizens are considered "Imperial" citizens. High Rock didn't focus solely on Bretons, even though they're the majority. Though Bretons hate themselves more than others... But anyway.

We're not burning down temples here alright. It's not just about religion, it's about a few more things, obviously a house trained obedient dog wouldn't understand.

"He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne." - Laila

"The Stormcloaks are destined to win this fight. Talos is with us, and when you fight under a Divine's blessing, victory is assured." - Skald

"He's a fool, if you haven't met him already. Thinks Ulfric Stormcloak is invincible and spits dragon fire." - Frida

"Just like Talos himself at the Battle of Old Hroldan, reclaiming the Reach from those heathen natives." - Thongvor

Like Ysgramor, Ulfric Stormcloak is a true hero of Skyrim. His name will ring in Sovngarde for generations to come. Only he had the courage to single out King Torygg and challenge him to trial by arms. Ulfric's thu'um, a gift from Talos himself, struck down this traitorous ruler. - Nords Arise!

That is just one taste of what the Stormcloaks truly are. The supporters damn near worship Ulfric as a God, often comparing him to Talos or Ysgramor. His officers calling him the "truest of us all".

You're basically the Alessian Order 2.0 and instead of worshipping the One, you're about Talos and Ulfric.

Did you not try and argue with me that men of the Old Holds were mosly conscripts? Now you're going the other way around.

I don't remember. Unless we're talking about the Reman Empire where Jarls had to uphold conscription quota.

They prefer guerrilla tactics. They aren't an organized fighting force.

They once managed to conquer the Imperial City, don't underestimate the crazy deer head wearing bastards.

When you were fighting the first dominion you couldn't win without the Numidium.

Reman managed to conquer Valenwood, Elsweyr and Summerset Isle without it. The Empire and Aldmeri Dominion were never officially at war with each other, Tiber sent them demands and they had skirmishes in which Talos' Colovian forces nicknamed them the "Old Mary" Dominion. The Thalmor did have representives at the Imperial City during this time, they had border disputes and threatened. The Third Legion did manage to conquer parts of Elsweyr and fought in Black Marsh for a bit though.

Tiber turned his attention on them after he had Morrowind, in which he was given Numidium and he used it. Legion was never given orders to attack Summerset Isle.

Yes because we'll conscript everyone in the entire province.

No, but Militia can't be used forever.

Well, gameplay. how devastating were dragons in lore

They killed thousands of people. The Red Dragon of the Empire under the command of Lord Admiral Richton aided the West Imperial Navy in annihilating the Redguard's forces at the Battle of Hounding Bay.

Maybe their maps are all fuc*ed up, it's not as if they have a basic knowledge of borders, most of them are savages.

That can read and write better than some Nords? That have maps of Skyrim? The Forsworn rose twenty five years ago, they may be savage but they're not clueless.

Which are quickly resolved.

They still manage to infiltrate Jarl's courts and steer them.

Yeah we have healers too, so mutual success in the future to you.

Healers that are having trouble keeping up with wounded in the Civil War, a Daedric Plague should be easy for them, I'm sure. Though I bet them backwards Nords would blame the College for it.

I mean when he was, y'know, dying?

What?

Ulfric: "This is it for you. Any last words before I send you to Oblivion?"
Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted."
Galmar: "What who wanted?"
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."
Ulfric: "It's a little more than a rebellion, don't you think?"
Galmar: "Heh."
Tullius: "We aren't the bad guys you know."
Ulfric: "Maybe not, but you certainly aren't the good guys."
Tullius: "Perhaps you're right. But then what does that make you?"
Is that not toying with or at least attempting to toy with someone?

Galmar: "Just kill him and let's be done with it already."
Ulfric: "Come, Galmar. Where's your sense of the dramatic moment?"

Yeah, what better way to appeal to the Nords then with the fuc*ing Dragonborn. Politics, man.

Only to be released shortly after. Are you this man's political tool, his poster boy?

Mmmm what is that man had to do to join the Pennitus Oculatus again? Kill a defenseless old man with no information on him? Very straight forward.

Penitus Oculatus. They are not the Legion. Though yes, Colin was instructed to observe and kill a target. What Colin observed was curious, on how the old man never spoke to the same person twice, he gave a coded phrase and threatened him subtly. Most likely a Thalmor asset. That was the focus of the Penitus Oculatus at that time.

What does that have to do with morale? The Penitus Oculatus Inspectors are intelligence agents, what they do is secret.

What are messenger Pigeons?

I don't know, you tell me? Perhaps you can explain why messages are sent by courier? Why do the Stormcloaks and Legion use couriers and we get information about riders carrying messages to places in lore. Only long distance communication is done by Legion Battlemages.

Are there even pigeons in Tamriel?

Can't refute that, then again he wasn't much of a Nord.

Acted like one, looked like one.

uhh citation pls

"These Stormcloaks are ridiculous. They won't shop here because they think I'll sell them poisoned tonics. I should just go back to Cyrodiil." - Arcadia

Then we both are and we can rejoice in the RAPING of Markarth's silver, but at least when the Silver Bloods do it, it goes to Skyrim.

The Silver-Bloods are always doing it...? The mine is owned by them.

Inadvertently proving my point again i see

No it isn't. It is established few people are arriving. The Legion Legates constantly tell you they get few reinforcements, so they've been forced to recruit locally.

Coffers. Speciffically mentioned...

Solitude's coffers? Where the money is? I'm not surprised coffers are mentioned.

Solitudes coffers have been drained by the war effort.

And? Solitude's resources are being directed to aid in the war, Solitude is at war with Windhelm. Prices are also rising all across Skyrim, even Balgruuf's coffers are drained due to the war and he isn't in it yet.

Because that makes it morally acceptable, if the ROMANS did it.

Morally acceptable? What the fl*ff is your point? War costs money, directly and indirectly.

Yeah, they can be conscripted by Jarl Dickhole and his band of merry men. Ulfric doesn't do it to his citizens, while Tulius delights in it.

You really cling to anything you can. Ulfric gets soldiers from those Holds, they are sent to the front lines. Thus being conscripted to fight. Tullius delights in it... Lol. Tullius doesn't conscript civilians, only redeploys soldiers of the Jarls who he commands as the Military Governor.

Of course Ulfric would conscript from Holds loyal to him, the man isn't an idiot. You yourself are only questioned by Galmar because you're an outsider. You're not a citizen of Windhelm, nor are you a citizen of Skyrim.

Quite frankly the fact Tullius is using non-Legionaries and opened local recruiting to bolster his limited number is smart, the only reason you find a problem with it is because it is Tullius. When Ulfric does it "it isn't really him, it is this other jarl" you're just grasping and it gets more amusing with each new post.

So the rebellion is not a time of Dire Need?

Of course it is. Hence why hold guards are being sent to fight too. Conscription happens everywhere and if you actually believe the Stormcloaks don't do it you're dellusional. The only person ever questioned is the player because they're not a citizen.

Stop toying with semantics. It's always been the symbol of the Empire, it should also be noted that it talks about the Dragonborn and it's connections to the Empire in the book
"The connection with the rulers of the Empire was thus there from the beginning - only those of the dragon blood were able to wear the Amulet of Kings and light the Dragonfires. All the legitimate rulers of the Empire have been Dragonborn - the Emperors and Empresses of the first Cyrodilic Empire founded by Alessia; Reman Cyrodiil and his heirs; and of course Tiber Septim and his heirs, down to our current Emperor, His Majesty Pelagius Septim IV."

SIDE NOTE: I made a few Edits. Enter can fluff with an entire post if you aren't careful

It doesn't matter, the cover is designed to look like a book. It is an old worn book, much like majority of the books in Skyrim.

A worn book and chipped wing doesn't = "EMPIRE IS DOOMED IT IS fl*ffED THEY'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!111"

 

[DrunkenMage]

She doesn't need to, it should be obvious. Five paces into the city and a guy straight up tells you Maven's in good with the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood

And? He doesn't say it to Laila, and the guards are paid to look the other way. She's hardly in good with the Dark Brotherhood judging by her angry letter to Astrid.

Elisif: "As you know, Solitude's coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. Thane Erikur, you have a strong head for business. What do you suggest?"
Erikur: "This is an unfortunate but unavoidable ebb in revenue. But as long as we continue to support the Empire, our sacrifices will be well rewarded."
Definitely sounds like he's funding them because he wants to. Apparently the Empire also will NOT protect them if they don't pay up. Well That's fair, you greedy bastards sure are judicious.

No it doesn't. Solitude's funds are not his, he only pays taxes towards Elisif which go into the coffers. The Empire won't protect them if they don't pay up? Where does it say that? "As long as we continue to support the Empire our sacrifices will be rewarded" You're using Erikur as the prime example, he's willing to sell to the Stormcloaks if they can match what the Legion would pay him for imported weapons from Black Marsh.

Far as I can tell the Empire supply routes in the South are blocked, hence why ships are bringing in weapons and pay. Though it still wouldn't be enough to sustain the war effort without using local resources. The ships can only carry so much, and you can't exactly fill the cargo hold with gold or they'll be perfect targets for pirates. They're sailing for weeks all around the coast of Tamriel. I'll bet there are some that never make the complete journey.

Even still, the money would be used up fairly quickly. Prices of goods have gone up heaps due to the chaos, supplies are scarce. You're paying the soldiers, paying for equipment, paying compensation to widows and wounded, you're paying bribes to get intelligence/buying off minor nobles, paying for mercenaries and all the logistics in fighting a war.

Skyrim is a very isolated province, can't be easy to get outside funding for a war while the major routes are blocked/unsafe due to bandits and rogue mercenaries.

Pretty sure you missed a few eras of time in which there was no central Empire in which everyone can benefit from.

There was still Colovia and the Niben trading.

A few eras? We're at the Fourth Era. Skyrim was part of Empire for Second, Third and Fourth. First Era they were allied and controlled more than just Skyrim.

Did the Civil War and the Dragons just eat up all the natural resources still firmly rooted in Skyrim's soil? And I'm pretty sure that in a time of hardship we can look past someone's race, not all of us are "Barabaric Racists" as you Imperials would seem to suggest.

They didn't eat them all up, but the Civil War and Dragons did cost a pretty penny in coin and food. The issue isn't that there are no resources, Skyrim is quite rich in natural wealth. The issue is getting the resource from point A to point B without getting hijacked.

Bandits and rogue wizards are a serious problem. Skyrim has it really bad, this isn't a few hiding away attacking just merchants. They're able to take out military forts killing entire garrisons of both Legion and Stormcloak.

"I tell you this province is losing its grip. The bandits become more brazen every day." - Skjor/Vilkas.

"Road patrols were cut in half because the Jarl needed soldiers. Now the bandits are bolder than ever. They've been raiding the farms for food, and supplies are scarcer than ever." - Carlotta

 

[Pendalyn]

Something... something... something... ah there it is.

So... on these 'senile idiots' and 'spoiled grieving widows'... you claim to seek a solution that allows you to join forces against, well... the Thalmor and their supporters.

Don't you realize these 'senile idiots' and as you say, 'spoiled grieving widows' are some of the very people who worship Talos the most? Yet say you don't seek to protect them.

Indeed, most of the people you mentioned were widowed from veterans fighting in various wars instigated by Thalmor with survivors returning heart broken from their defeat at the Thalmor's hands and eventually themselves becoming old and senile.

Furthermore, these veterans now serve as living-proof of our superiority over man. Still, is someone who has lost part of their family in war and received compensation really considered 'spoiled'?

My Ari-El can't this accursed Empire and these wretched fanatics come to an end soon enough???

To be clear, my words did not mention Talos as a motive for any of my decisions, nor was there any mention of protecting anyone. Senile Idiots and Spoiled Grieving Widows were both terms I borrowed from another, without proper citation I admit. If I were to make the decision based on moral standings I would say to hell with the lot as I'm not about weakening a stance to a foe, as you cannot deny you are such to the Nords who demand independence, nor am I for the suppression of religious worship, choose you man gods or daedra.

I'll freely admit my desire to find a side best suited to destorying the AD is rooted in a deep loathing of you pointy eared snobs. I've done much and worked tirelessly to increase the distance my family has made to our stale outdated roots. Take your gifts and your talents and cower behind your walls because your armies will not save you when the Vessel of Dragon Blood pours death upon you.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Yeah, you're right. I REALLY don't see an independent nation with many resources and damn near INFINITE knowledge at sea getting many offers of trade or making a trading company of their own. WHAT WAS I THINKING?

Majority of trade in Tamriel it seems is conducted by land, instead of sea. Only the East Empire Company mostly trades via sea and they dominate the shipping industry. You have your various merchant captains but they seem to buy from the EETC. Besides the waters of Skyrim are pretty rough given all the shipwrecks and violent storms that happen off coast. Might be why you see more Nords in cities like Anvil in Cyrodiil.

Probably explains why the Empire is using so much of Skyrim's resources in the Civil War. With the land routes blocked and unreliable due to raiders without complete Legion escort.

Uhh anyone who will accept trade? Morrowind, Hammerfell, High Rock... Hell, The Empire will probably still do business, obviously they have things they want in Skyrim and we have things they want. Do you know how trade works?

Not while the roads are that unsafe, not while pirates control the waters of Skyrim. Morrowind is xenophobic so I wouldn't count on them too much. Trade will happen between the various little merchants wandering around and imports/exports through the EETC after tax. Cyrodiil and the Imperial City get money and lots of trade by just being the middle of Tamriel, they don't exactly need to do business with Skyrim.

Empire and Stormcloaks would have to make peace for trade agreements anyway, and it took the near end of the world to get a temporary ceasefire going. Trade agreement that requires lots of talking and negotiations would be interesting to say the least.

Skyrim is the northern most province in the Empire, much of it is harsh, barren and wild. What does Skyrim really have that is desired? Besides soldiers. Silver isn't that sought after besides in Skyrim where it is used to pay Hold Guards and provide financial support and services to landowners, ebony is a desired ore. Though you'd need to get access to the largest ebony mine, which has an Orc settlement on it.

I say settlement, but with Orcs it is really a fortress that is near impossible to get rid of. 'destroyed strongholds often return within a generation of their destruction if not countered by a Nord fort that needs a constant supply of troops and provisions. Few jarls can afford to defend piles of rock for more than a few years' - Orcs of Skyrim

 

[Ancano]

Something... something... something... ah there it is.

So... on these 'senile idiots' and 'spoiled grieving widows'... you claim to seek a solution that allows you to join forces against, well... the Thalmor and their supporters.

Don't you realize these 'senile idiots' and as you say, 'spoiled grieving widows' are some of the very people who worship Talos the most? Yet say you don't seek to protect them.

Indeed, most of the people you mentioned were widowed from veterans fighting in various wars instigated by Thalmor with survivors returning heart broken from their defeat at the Thalmor's hands and eventually themselves becoming old and senile.

Furthermore, these veterans now serve as living-proof of our superiority over man. Still, is someone who has lost part of their family in war and received compensation really considered 'spoiled'?

My Ari-El can't this accursed Empire and these wretched fanatics come to an end soon enough???

To be clear, my words did not mention Talos as a motive for any of my decisions, nor was there any mention of protecting anyone. Senile Idiots and Spoiled Grieving Widows were both terms I borrowed from another, without proper citation I admit. If I were to make the decision based on moral standings I would say to hell with the lot as I'm not about weakening a stance to a foe, as you cannot deny you are such to the Nords who demand independence, nor am I for the suppression of religious worship, choose you man gods or daedra.

I'll freely admit my desire to find a side best suited to destorying the AD is rooted in a deep loathing of you pointy eared snobs. I've done much and worked tirelessly to increase the distance my family has made to our stale outdated roots. Take your gifts and your talents and cower behind your walls because your armies will not save you when the Vessel of Dragon Blood pours death upon you.

*Plays violin*

 

[DrunkenMage]

I have a strange question for all of you. As we know Titus Mede II is assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood, and we don't really know if he has an heir or not. (Though if he doesn't his dynasty would have been at it's end in a short time given his age)

But lets just for the sake of argument say he doesn't have an heir like some Stormcloaks on here like to believe. So if Titus II had no direct heir, that would mean his first cousin Vittoria Vici would technically be heir to the Empire. Vici gets married to Asgeir Snow-Shod just before her death, he becomes her husband by law.

Would it mean that this yokel is a contender to the Ruby Throne? Heir to the Dragon Empire, Starry Heart of Nirn, and Seat of Sundered Kings?

 

[Ancano]

I have a strange question for all of you. As we know Titus Mede II is assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood, and we don't really know if he has an heir or not. (Though if he doesn't his dynasty would have been at it's end in a short time given his age)

But lets just for the sake of argument say he doesn't have an heir like some Stormcloaks on here like to believe. So if Titus II had no direct heir, that would mean his first cousin Vittoria Vici would technically be heir to the Empire. Vici gets married to Asgeir Snow-Shod just before her death, he becomes her husband by law.

Would it mean that this yokel is a contender to the Ruby Throne? Heir to the Dragon Empire, Starry Heart of Nirn, and Seat of Sundered Kings?

No chance whatsoever.

First of all, they didn't really get married now did they?

Ah yes I remember this one. Was up on the balcony and hit dear Vittoria with my illest Fury spell (her only). She flew out of that chair and started throwing it down. Then an angry mob killed her and hubby + family. Or maybe it was just him... I dunno but Elisif ripped his head off with her bare hands.

Playing Devil's advocate, let's assume you are right. Problem is, a member of the Elder Council has already been dispatched to do basically two things:

1) Eliminate Titus Mede II
2) Kill as much of his regime as can be killed

And that's what Armaund does. Which is why TMII later wants him dead because he took the fight to all of his people and not just with him.

So No Mage. Nice try however this is not the final solution. It would be wonderful if it were, then you could say that someone whose pro-Stormcloak Ideology will end up with the throne and the game is over.

If nothing else, this is just another case in point displaying the strong division and hatred between Cyrodil and Skyrim.

However, there's still an Empire left so... *someone* can still have at that throne. Either it will go to the Thalmor who will demand the throne or war OR it will goto the Dragonborn.

The Dragonborn is a party strong enough AND by right of the lineage of Talos to take that throne.

 

[DrunkenMage]

No chance whatsoever.

First of all, they didn't really get married now did they?

Yes they did. Hence why you kill her at the wedding reception... Which takes place after the wedding ceremony.

So No Mage. Nice try however this is not the final solution. It would be wonderful if it were, then you could say that someone whose pro-Stormcloak Ideology will end up with the throne and the game is over.

He's not pro-Stormcloak, and he greatly dislikes Ulfric Stormcloak.

However, there's still an Empire left so... *someone* can still have at that throne. Either it will go to the Thalmor who will demand the throne or war

The Aldmeri Dominion cannot grow stronger, they are at the height of their power. The Fourth Era Thalmor ideology prevent them from gathering strength, anyone who can support the Thalmor or agrees with them are already incorporated into the Dominion's ranks. Very little support remain outside save a few unreliable assets who could be bought.

Orcs and Dunmer are considered an affront to everything the Thalmor stand for, so the remaining elves of Tamriel want nothing to do with them. Thalmor's racism and supremacist beliefs prevents them from ruling mankind. They're still having problems inside the Dominion with the purges in Valenwood no one hears about, which I suppose shows the Thalmor are trying to keep it secret because it would show their grip weak.

The Empire can get stronger, it can recover. The Aldmeri Dominion cannot expand without causing destabilization in their holdings. The Empire has been hit extremely hard over the last two hundred years and has declined a great deal, the Dominion however has spent nearly two hundred years just to become barely equal to the Empire as it is in 4E 201.

The Dominion may be able to destroy the Empire, but they'll never be able to replace it. So it'll be war, and you lot can't afford to get any weaker.

OR it will goto the Dragonborn.

The Dragonborn is a party strong enough AND by right of the lineage of Talos to take that throne.

The Dragonborn won't get anything. The Last Dragonborn has as much right to the Ruby Throne as Jarl Skald does. The destruction of the Amulet of Kings and Martin's sacrifice removed the need for the Dragon blood Emperors.

 

[Ancano]

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No chance whatsoever.

First of all, they didn't really get married now did they?
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Yes they did. Hence why you kill her at the wedding reception... Which takes place after the wedding ceremony.

I killed her during the ceremony.

Either way, the point I was driving at was the couple was barely married if they were married all of 5 mins and then she doesn't just die but is assassinated.

Won't look good on the groom and his family.

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So No Mage. Nice try however this is not the final solution. It would be wonderful if it were, then you could say that someone whose pro-Stormcloak Ideology will end up with the throne and the game is over.
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He's not pro-Stormcloak, and he greatly dislikes Ulfric Stormcloak.

He has connections with Lawgiver though and Maven too I suppose. About him and the Stormcloak thing, what I meant was he is not a corrupt pric looking to make a dime off people's loss. True he works with Maven but as you say, he's a good guy, good businessman.
Being a Nord who knows people and knows how to manage his coin could really heal some wounds in the Empire. If only he hadn't died during the wedding. Tsk Tsk Tsk

Or you could stop fronting and just accept the fact and let Maven become Empress. Just sayin'

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However, there's still an Empire left so... *someone* can still have at that throne. Either it will go to the Thalmor who will demand the throne or war
read_more ...
The Aldmeri Dominion cannot grow stronger, they are at the height of their power. The Fourth Era Thalmor ideology prevent them from gathering strength, anyone who can support the Thalmor or agrees with them are already incorporated into the Dominion's ranks. Very little support remain outside save a few unreliable assets who could be bought.

Orcs and Dunmer are considered an affront to everything the Thalmor stand for, so the remaining elves of Tamriel want nothing to do with them. Thalmor's racism and supremacist beliefs prevents them from ruling mankind. They're still having problems inside the Dominion with the purges in Valenwood no one hears about, which I suppose shows the Thalmor are trying to keep it secret because it would show their grip weak.

The Empire can get stronger, it can recover. The Aldmeri Dominion cannot expand without causing destabilization in their holdings. The Empire has been hit extremely hard over the last two hundred years and has declined a great deal, the Dominion however has spent nearly two hundred years just to become barely equal to the Empire as it is in 4E 201.

The Dominion may be able to destroy the Empire, but they'll never be able to replace it. So it'll be war, and you lot can't afford to get any weaker.

Conjecture. Although I know you care about the Empire, maybe you guys will win somehow. Dominion is here to stay I'm afraid. Thalmor are the things you see out of the corner of your eye We're the grudge that puts a cloud over your sunny day.

Whatever comes, we will always be by your side. Full of memory and hatred. Watching you run around in your feable misguided attempts at peace and justice.

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OR it will goto the Dragonborn.

The Dragonborn is a party strong enough AND by right of the lineage of Talos to take that throne.
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The Dragonborn won't get anything. The Last Dragonborn has as much right to the Ruby Throne as Jarl Skald does. The destruction of the Amulet of Kings and Martin's sacrifice removed the need for the Dragon blood Emperors.

What is it with you and the Dragonborn? I have NEVER been able to convince you to entertain this possibility.

The Dragonborn is a perfect fit. Absolutely perfect fit for Emperor / Empress.

Open a window man, smell the flowers, let in the winds of change.