Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
And yet you wear fancy jewelry instead of an amulet of Talos. Shame on you.
That fancy jewelry aids me in the craft of necromancy
And yet you wear fancy jewelry instead of an amulet of Talos. Shame on you.
I have to agree with DrunkenMage on the fact that there is actually very minimal difference between most Imperials and Nords. And asides from the "True Nord" propaganda of the Stormcloaks there still is very little difference. The fact that for example the first real pro-Stormcloak you meet outside of Ralof is Heimskr, whose name is derived from old norse for "stupid, foolish, dumb" Citation means that at the very least his dogmatic rhetoric is probably to be taken with a grain of salt.
As for the immigration, I don't see evidence that Dunmer are freeloading nor are they giving up everything to help. "It's not our fight" is very reasonable to say, especially since they are likely still taxed. (As I would like to avoid the issues of applying contemporary partial knowledge to fantasy I can't add more to that aspect of said discussion.) The argument that they do nothing is often presented in game by those who are blatantly bigoted in their nature. Contrast to when Brunwulf Free-Winter says why the argonians aren't allowed into the city, which amounts to "There is to much bad blood between the Dunmer and the Argonians. It will have to be a slow transition." You can hear the reasoning behind his actions. For all his charisma, Ulfric does lack proper communication skills.
Personally, the overzealous religious dogma of the Nord's coupled with picking and choosing from which of the old ways they should follow, claiming to follow Talos yet striking out against the remnants of his Empire, shows more of shell shocked twisted view of the past more than anything. And at least to me, during the negotiations Ulfric (though arguably Tulius has similar hopes of support) is very self centered, he doesn't take responsibility for those he and his followers have killed until he is in Soverngard.
(Just here so I can have some leisure reading between RP posts.)
And yet you wear fancy jewelry instead of an amulet of Talos. Shame on you.
That fancy jewelry aids me in the craft of necromancy
I have to agree with DrunkenMage on the fact that there is actually very minimal difference between most Imperials and Nords. And asides from the "True Nord" propaganda of the Stormcloaks there still is very little difference. The fact that for example the first real pro-Stormcloak you meet outside of Ralof is Heimskr, whose name is derived from old norse for "stupid, foolish, dumb" Citation means that at the very least his dogmatic rhetoric is probably to be taken with a grain of salt.
As for the immigration, I don't see evidence that Dunmer are freeloading nor are they giving up everything to help. "It's not our fight" is very reasonable to say, especially since they are likely still taxed. (As I would like to avoid the issues of applying contemporary partial knowledge to fantasy I can't add more to that aspect of said discussion.) The argument that they do nothing is often presented in game by those who are blatantly bigoted in their nature. Contrast to when Brunwulf Free-Winter says why the argonians aren't allowed into the city, which amounts to "There is to much bad blood between the Dunmer and the Argonians. It will have to be a slow transition." You can hear the reasoning behind his actions. For all his charisma, Ulfric does lack proper communication skills.
Personally, the overzealous religious dogma of the Nord's coupled with picking and choosing from which of the old ways they should follow, claiming to follow Talos yet striking out against the remnants of his Empire, shows more of shell shocked twisted view of the past more than anything. And at least to me, during the negotiations Ulfric (though arguably Tulius has similar hopes of support) is very self centered, he doesn't take responsibility for those he and his followers have killed until he is in Soverngard.
(Just here so I can have some leisure reading between RP posts.)
Yeah Ulfric is partially to blame, make no mistake. However, if Windhelm is at war, the Dark Elves should be helping. At least in some way.
That fancy jewelry aids me in the craft of necromancy
Yeah Ulfric is partially to blame, make no mistake. However, if Windhelm is at war, the Dark Elves should be helping. At least in some way.
Does not the food they farm go into feeding the citizens of Windhelm and supplying food for Ulfric's army? Does not the coin provided from taxes, and the success they bring to Nord businesses fund more weapons and armors?
The Dunmer are doing everything short of picking up a sword and dying in a ditch for a Nord focused cause. If you've been treated like second class citizens, treated like dirt and lesser beings by the Nords of Windhelm. Why would they be motivated to pick up a Stormcloak banner and go "Which way, boss?"
They do more than most in Windhelm, and I find it hard to believe they're given a hard time only because they're not fighting for the Stormcloaks. Many in Windhelm aren't fighting for the Stormcloaks, they're not picking up weapons. Yet they're treated more kindly.
Yeah Ulfric is partially to blame, make no mistake. However, if Windhelm is at war, the Dark Elves should be helping. At least in some way.
Does not the food they farm go into feeding the citizens of Windhelm and supplying food for Ulfric's army? Does not the coin provided from taxes, and the success they bring to Nord businesses fund more weapons and armors?
The Dunmer are doing everything short of picking up a sword and dying in a ditch for a Nord focused cause. If you've been treated like second class citizens, treated like dirt and lesser beings by the Nords of Windhelm. Why would they be motivated to pick up a Stormcloak banner and go "Which way, boss?"
They do more than most in Windhelm, and I find it hard to believe they're given a hard time only because they're not fighting for the Stormcloaks. Many in Windhelm aren't fighting for the Stormcloaks, they're not picking up weapons. Yet they're treated more kindly.
All that comes with just being a citizen, as far as living in Windhelm goes they're doing the bare minimum for supporting the Stormcloaks (unwillingly at that). The Cornerclub even has Legion gear in the attic.
Not that this excuses the treatment of them but Niranye is right. Nords are stubborn, and to them youre still the "devils of the east". Coming to Windhelm and refusing to even acknowledge Nordic culture won't win you many friends. Really, the rebellion is a golden oppurtunity for them. If a few enlisted or even just strung up a blue bear banner and said "go Stormcloaks" it's a great place to start.
Agh! It's...too....BLUE!I would suggest making two save files before you choose which side, then for one file join stormcloaks, the other the Imperials. finish their quest line and at the end decide which one seems more favourable for keeping to you.
And you don't think what General Tullius is doing is in favor of the Thalmor? The fact that Tullius has precious information indicating that the Civil war was the Thalmor's doing yet continues with this Civil war thus giving them exactly what they desire. Tullius finally releases this information for selfish reasons. Information for an exchange for his life.
If you dig deep into the psychology of a diehard religious person... which is exactly what Ulfric and his Stormcloaks are you would understand that It is worth of going into full blown Civil war. To fight for your heritage and freedom to openly worship Talos.
My choice might be obvious, but here's my explanation.
I prefer the Imperials and despite some shady activity I think they fight for the greater good and have more noble stances. Upon reviewing their motives and what they do in practice, the Stormcloaks seem worse and in all honesty probably would just plunge Skyrim into chaos. What the Stormcloaks are doing is exactly what the Thalmor want, to divide Skyrim and take over. I agree with the Stormcloaks message that there should be religious freedom to worship whatever, but, it is worth a civil war? I would have a lot more sympathy if they were doing in the name of Freedom from religion, which is fair more maligned in those times to be an atheist than believing the wrong god in a polytheistic society. I think a good compromise however would be to divide Skyrim into two areas instead. The Stormcloaks can keep the east (Windhelm, Winterhold and Riften).
I can see from glancing at your profile you're pro-atheism but you have to respect that Talos has been a way of Nordic life for a very long time. It absolutely is worth a war, I don't think one set of beliefs are worth more than another. The simple fact that someone is trying to take away such a basic right is worth it.
Agh! It's...too....BLUE!I would suggest making two save files before you choose which side, then for one file join stormcloaks, the other the Imperials. finish their quest line and at the end decide which one seems more favourable for keeping to you.
That fancy jewelry aids me in the craft of necromancy
You should totally change your avatar to Mannimarco where he's sitting in the throne room smiling. That would be awesome! Hah
And you are scum to me now!Since I'm fresh in it and just started a new game yesterday I'll share my thoughts. I sided with the Stormcloaks. Before I made the choice of which person to follow when the dragon first attacks and saves your life in Helgen I thought carefully of which clan to lend my allegiance to. I just couldn't stand being an imperial. Even if that one nord was rather friendly, the commander still wanted to have my head without even knowing who I fully was! Uncalled for. So naturally I went with the people who weren't after my head. And I had already met Ulfric, and he seemed like a decent guy. So on my escape from Helgen with my new Stormcloak ally, I made sure to collect everything I could off the bodies of the fallen imperials. They are scum to me now.
I personally don't believe that the argument for the events that take place for your character in the beginning of the game are justified. Because Bethesda does this on purpose to develop your character in any way you want. You were in jail in Oblivion and a prisoner boat (I think) in Morrowind. Either one of them could've, and most likely, result in your death, yet when they actually do it, you hate them now?Since I'm fresh in it and just started a new game yesterday I'll share my thoughts. I sided with the Stormcloaks. Before I made the choice of which person to follow when the dragon first attacks and saves your life in Helgen I thought carefully of which clan to lend my allegiance to. I just couldn't stand being an imperial. Even if that one nord was rather friendly, the commander still wanted to have my head without even knowing who I fully was! Uncalled for. So naturally I went with the people who weren't after my head. And I had already met Ulfric, and he seemed like a decent guy. So on my escape from Helgen with my new Stormcloak ally, I made sure to collect everything I could off the bodies of the fallen imperials. They are scum to me now.
Besides being a Mage, which isn't exactly favored in Skyrim. You're a Necromancer to boot? The Nords detest Necromancy, they're very touchy when it comes to the dead.
The Empire accepts Necromancy, and are willing to allow it as a study. Necromancers who have provided a service to the Empire don't need to hide in caves or ruined forts, but can live normally and have bodies of criminals delivered to their door.