General Charles Xander
General of the 11th Imperial Legion
Psh, never.When will this accursed war end?
Unless either the Imperials die, Stormcloaks die or Alduin returns and screws us all over again.
Psh, never.When will this accursed war end?
I guess it'll never be answered. Chances are they won't even mention the war in TES VIPsh, never.
Unless either the Imperials die, Stormcloaks die or Alduin returns and screws us all over again.
I disagree. To me, this is a event to important to ignore.I guess it'll never be answered. Chances are they won't even mention the war in TES VIPsh, never.
Unless either the Imperials die, Stormcloaks die or Alduin returns and screws us all over again.
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That's what I'm hoping, but I guess we won't know until- what, five years?I disagree. To me, this is a event to important to ignore.
F***, that long?That's what I'm hoping, but I guess we won't know until- what, five years?I disagree. To me, this is a event to important to ignore.
A Nord's last thoughts should be of home...
Depending on when Beth. wants to. I'm actually hoping for later rather than sooner so they can iron out all the glitches and bugs. But with the success of Skyrim I doubt they learned their lessonF***, that long?
There weren't any really bad game breaking glitches. However, anything is better than another Call Of Duty.Depending on when Beth. wants to. I'm actually hoping for later rather than sooner so they can iron out all the glitches and bugs. But with the success of Skyrim I doubt they learned their lessonF***, that long?
A Nord's last thoughts should be of home...
Yeah, nothing game breaking, but if you take a look at some of the content in the works, it's a shame they were never implemented. The Civil War was going to be so Fleshed out, intuitive, and even strategic at some points. Just picture this: Stormcloak Giants. STORMCLOAK F#%€@*% GIANTS. I came in my pants at least twice just thinking about that.There weren't any really bad game breaking glitches. However, anything is better than another Call Of Duty.
Priceless!Psh, never.When will this accursed war end?
Unless either the Imperials die, Stormcloaks die or Alduin returns and screws us all over again.
I guess it'll never be answered. Chances are they won't even mention the war in TES VIPsh, never.
Unless either the Imperials die, Stormcloaks die or Alduin returns and screws us all over again.
Whether there's intent or not, they still need to be held accountable for their actions. Countless dead, a whole city gone, but you think everyone should just forgive and forget and let them carry on? Don't act like they're the victims here.
Whoa.
I've read the last page or so and Imperials just will not understand what the Qahn is trying to convey here. Yeah, I know, I know however you have to feel their pain, in order to remain sane.
And it's this outrage, this bitterness, this blame game that drives the Stormcloaks. To some extent, I can see why they're angry and maybe they should be.
I've always said the Stormcloaks were the weakest link however, that doesn't make them weak. What it boils down to... is the Stormcloaks want to be left alone. They want everyone ~ whom they feel has wronged them ~ off their land and out of their lives.
So, the more rational thinking Imperial will immed dismiss the Stormcloak argument for what have you. The Stormcloaks feel they've been wronged, let down, abandoned, knife in back and well... used so many times in the past that they want a new beginning.
They see Ulfric as this "New Beginning" and they don't mind that he's a loon, because so are they. Not to imply any disrespect, just in the sense that the Stormcloaks are tired of being rational when folks aren't rational towards them. So then the obvious conclusion is to rebel thru irrationality.
You can't have a rational rebellion against a Gov that has corrupted the def of "civility". At least according to them. So what we're perceiving as being an "off the wall argument" makes perfect sense when you consider how much pain, loss and suffering the 'cloaks have incurred because of the Empire. And the Empire is to blame for at least some of it.
Still, Ulfric drew swords against his countrymen FIRST, what honor is there in slaying them who honor you?
To illustrate, there was someone I once admired, held them as friend. Out of no where came the back stab, it was really bad and never had this person discussed the matter with me before. Suppose I was in the wrong, people make mistakes. However, one can make a mistake and still be honorable, as opposed to someone else pretending to be honorable and making no mistake.
And I don't care who started what, TRUST is the key to any relationship. Without Trust, there is no hope for cooperation. Emperor Mede and Jarl Ulfric both violated this Trust. Eliminating them gives the relationship a chance again, to close Pandora's box in just enough time to keep hope alive.
You have some good points here, you also have to understand how important honour and traditions are to Nords. They have been shamed by the Dominion and now their customs are becoming harder and harder to keep to. Your right about them wanting a "new beginning", where they can look after themselves before anyone else, but it's also a chance to redeem themselves and their honour. They'll show the Empire they don't need them, and they'll show the Dominion they are the superior force. They want to prove to themselves and the world they're still the fierce, independant and strong people of Skyrim.
I guess it'll never be answered. Chances are they won't even mention the war in TES VIPsh, never.
Unless either the Imperials die, Stormcloaks die or Alduin returns and screws us all over again.
Agreed. If they declare one side or another the winner it'll upset each side's fan base.
Chances are excellent the Civil War outcome will never be 'officially' resolved. However, whenever the next 'future TES' is released, I believe an assertion of the Civil War outcome will be able to be extrapolated from new lore data.
It'll never hold up in a serious debate, however the answer will be there somewhere.
Whoa.
I've read the last page or so and Imperials just will not understand what the Qahn is trying to convey here. Yeah, I know, I know however you have to feel their pain, in order to remain sane.
And it's this outrage, this bitterness, this blame game that drives the Stormcloaks. To some extent, I can see why they're angry and maybe they should be.
I've always said the Stormcloaks were the weakest link however, that doesn't make them weak. What it boils down to... is the Stormcloaks want to be left alone. They want everyone ~ whom they feel has wronged them ~ off their land and out of their lives.
So, the more rational thinking Imperial will immed dismiss the Stormcloak argument for what have you. The Stormcloaks feel they've been wronged, let down, abandoned, knife in back and well... used so many times in the past that they want a new beginning.
They see Ulfric as this "New Beginning" and they don't mind that he's a loon, because so are they. Not to imply any disrespect, just in the sense that the Stormcloaks are tired of being rational when folks aren't rational towards them. So then the obvious conclusion is to rebel thru irrationality.
You can't have a rational rebellion against a Gov that has corrupted the def of "civility". At least according to them. So what we're perceiving as being an "off the wall argument" makes perfect sense when you consider how much pain, loss and suffering the 'cloaks have incurred because of the Empire. And the Empire is to blame for at least some of it.
Still, Ulfric drew swords against his countrymen FIRST, what honor is there in slaying them who honor you?
To illustrate, there was someone I once admired, held them as friend. Out of no where came the back stab, it was really bad and never had this person discussed the matter with me before. Suppose I was in the wrong, people make mistakes. However, one can make a mistake and still be honorable, as opposed to someone else pretending to be honorable and making no mistake.
And I don't care who started what, TRUST is the key to any relationship. Without Trust, there is no hope for cooperation. Emperor Mede and Jarl Ulfric both violated this Trust. Eliminating them gives the relationship a chance again, to close Pandora's box in just enough time to keep hope alive.
You have some good points here, you also have to understand how important honour and traditions are to Nords. They have been shamed by the Dominion and now their customs are becoming harder and harder to keep to. Your right about them wanting a "new beginning", where they can look after themselves before anyone else, but it's also a chance to redeem themselves and their honour. They'll show the Empire they don't need them, and they'll show the Dominion they are the superior force. They want to prove to themselves and the world they're still the fierce, independant and strong people of Skyrim.
Well yeah and I *totally* respect that argument. Totally.
It's just, Whiterun and the Reach kingdom had this same mentality. See? Ulfric Stormcloak liberated them from their Kingdom / Hold when no one from there was bothering the Stormcloaks. If say, Whiterun wanted to join Ulfric I'd be totally accepting of it because that's their decision to make. Whiterun can be used as a model for any other city-state or Province.
The people could form a petition and take it before the nobles and the Jarl and then join the 'cloaks. Hell, I'd even help them move However, What happened though? Whiterun wanted to be free of BOTH Empire and 'Cloaks. And what also happened? Ulfric threatened them with war, eventually instigated a war on this Hold that chose not to side with him. So they had to side with the Empire to preserve their freedom(s).
Which ultimately, was Freedom from Ulfric.
This is why I could never take up the Stormcloak cause. If Whiterun Hold already had Freedom of Talos worship and Freedom of Speech then how are they not free?
* They are friends of the Empire...big deal who are you to tell them who their friends are?
* They are neutral with the Thalmor...your kingdom doesn't set their foreign policy.
* They don't believe in Ulfric's cause...then according to your cause you should respect their beliefs, even if different from your own.
* Whiterun is keeping Skyrim from being unified by not joining the 'cloaks...submit a diplomatic package to Whiterun and hold a summit on the topic.
BUUTTT Since this didn't happen, no I think every Imperial Hold, Citizen or any Neutral party in Skyrim should resist Ulfric's aggression, not to take away the Stormcloaks Freedom, but to protect their own.
An official winner for the Civil War may never be declared, however in some ways Ulfric has already lost, even if he wins.
It wouldn't have mattered, they wouldn't have had to cross the Alik'r and Redguard resistance would still be a mess. Even if I'm wrong, they would have spent the time before the invasion preparing for taking the capital instead of changing plans halfway through when the Empire started to get it together. The generals over in Summerset probably would've had a plan or two.
You only need one or two mages up front casting wards... Not all your healers...
They had skirmishes going, the Jarls either did or didn't back Ulfric, they knew a war was coming.
They wouldn't allow such a form of government if it didn't advance and protect their interests within the province.
They won't stop the rebuilding, but the holds still rely on the crown (where will the holds whose coffer's have been wiped clean by the war going to get any resources to rebuild?), and Elisif's dialogue implies that she cannot run Haafingar on her own, much less Skyrim. As for her advisors, Falk seems alright (he does ignore Wolfskull Cave though) but you can't expect him to run the whole kingdom, and her thanes are more concerned with making money than anything.
It's not like Atmora was directly governing Skyrim or at least not for very long. The immigrants were fleeing troubles in Atmora for the most part so they probably weren't all that loyal to the government back home. Windhelm probably had more power than back home by the time they split. Yes, the Empire isn't the be all end all, that was my original point.
a) That has recently been decimated
b) Im not sure what you're saying here, the Empire got a head start preparing over the Dominion? Not really...
c) (Assuming we're talking about a scenario where Ulfric won) It's just them and High Rock, and High Rock is no world power, corsairs have recently sacked Wayrest
The EETC has investors who are high up in the Empire but are operated independently. Because merchants and caravaneers are still going back and forth, it's not as simple as them saying "we're still pretty mad at you, but could we ever go for a bottle of Colovian brandy right about now!"
So you're saying the Empire will be strong enough to fight a war on two fronts against Skyrim and the Dominion at the same time. Maybe if the Thalmor have been completely overthrown waaaay down the line, sure go ahead, reconquer Skyrim, but not during the Second Great War.
Sadly I see it coming to that, because a Dominion occupied Tamriel would make the Civil War irrelevant, or maybe some Northern humans are holding out. It would be kinda cool to play in Dominion provinces and work as a freedom fighter or something. Remember, a United Empire still doesn't have great odds against the Dominion.
I'm no geologist or whatever it's called but whatever pressure around Red Mountain has been released, and it's erupting at a steady pace currently. If the Collapse happened within a few years of the eruption, sure ok, but not over a century later. Also, earthquakes can only occur at certain areas, and they usually recur in those areas over time. In Winterhold's history, which goes back to the First Era or earlier, no mention of the sea turning violent or earthquakes either.
It wouldn't have mattered, they wouldn't have had to cross the Alik'r and Redguard resistance would still be a mess. Even if I'm wrong, they would have spent the time before the invasion preparing for taking the capital instead of changing plans halfway through when the Empire started to get it together. The generals over in Summerset probably would've had a plan or two.
It does. They didn't need to cross the Alik'r, what united the Redguards was the siege of a city in southern Hammerfell. Which means they would still unite following your idea of them just "Taking the southern part, and hitting Cyrodiil with everything".
So now that they've taken the Imperial City, Mede has retreated North and now four armies are coming down upon them. Good job Aldmeri Generals.
You only need one or two mages up front casting wards... Not all your healers...
In an army of thousands? What even makes you think every healer suddenly knows all the restoration spells under the sun? Wards are a specific study, just as offensive spells against undead are.
They had skirmishes going, the Jarls either did or didn't back Ulfric, they knew a war was coming.
Skirmishes and raids aren't that rare.
They wouldn't allow such a form of government if it didn't advance and protect their interests within the province.
Says who? Skyrim was not a conquered province, but was the province who had joined willingly at the start. They also were the strongarm of the Empire. There have been High Kings who have acted against "Imperial interests", the Empire backed a Republic in Hammerfell because it advanced and protected their interests, they could bribe nobles. Skyrim's form of governing isn't reliable, titles are past from parent to heir.
They won't stop the rebuilding, but the holds still rely on the crown (where will the holds whose coffer's have been wiped clean by the war going to get any resources to rebuild?), and Elisif's dialogue implies that she cannot run Haafingar on her own, much less Skyrim. As for her advisors, Falk seems alright (he does ignore Wolfskull Cave though) but you can't expect him to run the whole kingdom, and her thanes are more concerned with making money than anything.
Resources come from all over Skyrim, Falkreath supplies majority of the lumber. Also resources from the Empire, and the free trade Skyrim has for being a province of the Empire. No Jarl truly runs the Hold, it is why they all have a Court. The Stewards actually do the running of a city and hold. So you're blaming Elisif for something every Jarl/King does and has done for the last thousands of years?
Please... Before we start hating, at least gain an understanding of how Nords govern.
It's not like Atmora was directly governing Skyrim or at least not for very long. The immigrants were fleeing troubles in Atmora for the most part so they probably weren't all that loyal to the government back home. Windhelm probably had more power than back home by the time they split. Yes, the Empire isn't the be all end all, that was my original point.
What? It was Ysgramor and the first settlers who were fleeing troubles in Atmora, which was a Civil War. Then when Ysgramor returned to Atmora, he rallied his countrymen to the threat of elves.
a) That has recently been decimated
Twenty six years ago. But, Skyrim has recently been decimated right now. So the Nords are in even worse shape, yet they're going to take on the Dominion? If twenty six years ago is recently decimated, then you Stormcloaks are up pl*** creek for the next thirty years.
b) Im not sure what you're saying here, the Empire got a head start preparing over the Dominion? Not really...
Empire signed the White-Gold Concordat and got peace. Aldmeri Dominion kept fighting in Hammerfell for another five years. Yes, really. When one faction isn't fighting, but is rebuilding and repairing, they have a head start over the other faction who is still waging war and losing soldiers and resources. Didn't think that was a hard concept.
c) (Assuming we're talking about a scenario where Ulfric won) It's just them and High Rock, and High Rock is no world power, corsairs have recently sacked Wayrest
High Rock is still stronger than Skyrim is at the moment.
The EETC has investors who are high up in the Empire but are operated independently. Because merchants and caravaneers are still going back and forth, it's not as simple as them saying "we're still pretty mad at you, but could we ever go for a bottle of Colovian brandy right about now!"
The Empire thrives on trade. If the Redguards decided they wanted to refuse to trade with the Empire, they would be stupid. They're not enemies. Refusing to trade with the Empire would mean for the last twenty years they only have had the option of trading with the Thalmor or Morrowind.
So you're saying the Empire will be strong enough to fight a war on two fronts against Skyrim and the Dominion at the same time. Maybe if the Thalmor have been completely overthrown waaaay down the line, sure go ahead, reconquer Skyrim, but not during the Second Great War.
If they did another Blackwood Company, it is possible. Empire does employ thousands of mercenaries. Also depends on the Empire's plans, if they were to take Valenwood only before moving onto Summerset much later.
Sadly I see it coming to that, because a Dominion occupied Tamriel would make the Civil War irrelevant, or maybe some Northern humans are holding out. It would be kinda cool to play in Dominion provinces and work as a freedom fighter or something. Remember, a United Empire still doesn't have great odds against the Dominion.
It would be interesting playing in a Dominion controlled environment. You should also remember, a United Empire is what the Dominion hate the most, what the Thalmor are against completely and ideologically. They are against everything it stands for.
Don't underestimate the Empire, they have a habit of being able to survive impossible odds. Just when you think you've beaten them, they come back stronger and expand even further than last.
I'm no geologist or whatever it's called but whatever pressure around Red Mountain has been released, and it's erupting at a steady pace currently. If the Collapse happened within a few years of the eruption, sure ok, but not over a century later. Also, earthquakes can only occur at certain areas, and they usually recur in those areas over time. In Winterhold's history, which goes back to the First Era or earlier, no mention of the sea turning violent or earthquakes either.
Red Mountain is one of the towers that holds the world up. Is it really hard to believe it could have effects that are only felt hundreds of years later? Time holds no meaning to them. Hundreds of years later, or thousands in the past. You're thinking logically to an illogical situation.
Wasn't Red Mountain deactivated by the Nerevarine? I don't know exactly what a deactivated tower can do, but I'd guess that at that point Red Mountain was just a volcano. And maybe you've solved the time problem, but what about the space? Why Winterhold? Why wasn't Solstheim, Blacklight, Eastmarch or Dawnstar effected?
Wasn't Red Mountain deactivated by the Nerevarine? I don't know exactly what a deactivated tower can do, but I'd guess that at that point Red Mountain was just a volcano. And maybe you've solved the time problem, but what about the space? Why Winterhold? Why wasn't Solstheim, Blacklight, Eastmarch or Dawnstar effected?
Considering Solstheim is smothered in Ash, Ash spawn, barely survivable to the point only one of the Great Houses bothers with it kinda is because of Red Mountain.
We don't know if Blacklight has been affected or not. It's only been briefly mentioned.
Hell, all of Morrowind is in turmoil. Once Red Mountain erupted, the Argonians used the chance to attack. Smart move on their part.
Eastmarch took in refugees that are now outcasts by stormcloaks.
Dawnstar is a bit out there, even for waves to reach out that far. But that's just my interpretation of the situation.