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Ukraine and Russia: are we heading for war?

Discussion in 'The Lobby' started by Anouck, Apr 15, 2014.

?

Will this conflict lead to a war?

  1. Yes, but it will be like the Cold War.

    5 vote(s)
    20.8%
  2. Yes, this could lead to World War III.

    11 vote(s)
    45.8%
  3. Yes, but this will be a war between Russia and Ukraine. The UN will look the other way.

    4 vote(s)
    16.7%
  4. No, this 'conflict' is highly overrated.

    4 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Endowed Member

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    So 1 plane destroyed, 298 people dead, 28 of them being fellow Australians. Was anyone from your country affected?
     
  2. raido KASAI

    raido KASAI Ansei Master Badass

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    It's reported that 23 Americans were killed but not confirmed officially. Was surprised airlines were still using that airspace.

    Heard one of the families that lost someone in the missing jet also lost a family member in this one
     
  3. Crooksin

    Crooksin Glue Sniffer

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    1 Canadian.

    Its going to be a plops show when they figure out who did it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Anouck

    Anouck Queen of Procrastination

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    189 Dutch people died. So I guess I should say 'yes'.

    I hope Europe and the UN will finally show what they're worth. So far there has been no advantage to being part of the European Union. But now they can show how strong we are when we support each other. It's ridiculous they are trying to 'negotiate' with local rebels to get near the wreck. The last 24 hours the crash site has been robbed and manipulated by people who might have reasons to hide or mess with evidence. The black box was even on its way to Moscow.

    So yes, 189 Dutch brothers and sisters lost.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. raido KASAI

    raido KASAI Ansei Master Badass

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    1 confirmed US dual citizen. 40 passenger nationalities unknown. How is it possible an airlines doesn't know anything about 20% of the people onboard?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Anouck

    Anouck Queen of Procrastination

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    That's not true. 3 nationalities are unknown. These are the victims' nationalities.
    australia-spider-behind-clock.jpg
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. Seanu Reaves

    Seanu Reaves The Shogun of Gaming

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    IDK, but it seems like it wouldn't be that hard with the amount of people they have to deal with. An example is in a classroom, how many people do you actually "know" about? In my case, I know people are there, but I don't know anything about them.

    EDIT: I was gonna use that image, but I can't count so I thought a lot more people where unknown...
     
  8. Anouck

    Anouck Queen of Procrastination

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    To me, people are people. It doesn't really matter whether or not we share a nationality. It would be rather arrogant to find someone less important just because I don't know said person.
    It's not like I am deeply grieving. But when 189 Dutch people are lost, amongst them 2 people from my town, you always know someone who had something to do with them. I've seen pictures of the crash site, and I saw little Disney backpacks and other personal belongings. Stuff like that is terrible to see.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  9. raido KASAI

    raido KASAI Ansei Master Badass

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    The latest I had seen in the last hour here had a total of ~250 listed and the others were listed by Malaysian Airlines as "being investigated"

    I'm hoping here too that this will be handled properly. Sadly, if Putin is in charge of it, it isn't too likely that there is any objectivity.

    Condolences to all affected by this. Thoughts especially go out to the family that lost a family member on the flight that disappeared and now another on this one
     
  10. raido KASAI

    raido KASAI Ansei Master Badass

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    Indeed. Whether it was 5 people or 500, all were innocent bystanders that had nothing to do with the group that fired on them
     
  11. Seanu Reaves

    Seanu Reaves The Shogun of Gaming

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    I was referring to how there was a chance the Airlines missed some people. You know how I feel about this anyway.
     
  12. Anouck

    Anouck Queen of Procrastination

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    According to the latest update, all the passengers are known by now. These are all the nationalities on board of the plane according to Malaysia airlines.

    192 Dutch people
    44 Malaysians
    27 Australians
    12 Indonesians
    10 British
    4 Germans
    4 Belgians
    3 Filipino's
    1 Canadian
    1 New Zealand

    There was one Dutchman on board who also had an American passport. He is counted as a Dutch and American victim.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. Seanu Reaves

    Seanu Reaves The Shogun of Gaming

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    What was that quote by Stalin. "One is a tragedy, a million is a statistic." I am going to be interested to see if the media brings to light that we technically lost someone. Either they will sweep it under the rug and call him Dutch or start a plops storm.
     
  14. Crooksin

    Crooksin Glue Sniffer

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    No one's going to do anything about this, rest assured. Might be a lot of denouncing but no action.

    In all honesty, what can they do except that and maybe some sanctions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. raido KASAI

    raido KASAI Ansei Master Badass

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    If it becomes clear that Russia was involved, the damage done to international business travel is going to affect everyone, especially a country like China that it a major international economic power and one of the few allies that is propping up Putin. I doubt new sanctions from the West other than demanding damages for those affected. Right now Russia is on shaky economic ground as it is. Putin is going to have to tread quite cautiously, that is unless he decides to go all in and just take Ukraine before anyone stops him because even now, no one really would
     
  16. Crooksin

    Crooksin Glue Sniffer

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    Right now the sanctions so far are affecting Russia's economy but until Europe can find an alternative source to Russian gas, it will be nothing serious.

    I'm very sure that Russia is not involved in this situation, though, as much as it seems Western media wants it to be.
     
  17. Harc

    Harc Big Hog

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    My Dutch friend lost her primary school teacher from a while ago in that mess, R.I.P. To all that died.
     
  18. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Endowed Member

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    With comments like these, it makes me wonder if we will find out who is responsible in the near future. There are going to be a lot powerful people not happy about how this is being handled if no one steps forward and does something proactive in the attempt to 'quieten' Putin and the conflict.
     
  19. raido KASAI

    raido KASAI Ansei Master Badass

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    Even in a field in the most rural landscape of Ukraine, the world is a very small place. Know this, the truth will be found, regardless of whether or not it is ever heard from a black box.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  20. Crooksin

    Crooksin Glue Sniffer

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    Well, we may already found out as conclusive evidence as we're going to get.

    One of the major leaders of the rebels and their official media twitter page had bragged about capturing the same AA missile launch system that is suspected in shooting down this plane a couple days ago, with pictures and everything.

    Then, a few hours before it was confirmed that a civilian airliner crashed in Ukraine, the leader of the Donestk rebel group was bragging on Twitter how they shot down what they thought to be a Ukrainian military cargo jet (of similar class and appearance). This was immediately taken down when it came to light that the civilian jet was destroyed. This is when the rebels and Russia started blaming Kiev, Kiev blamed the rebels and some media outlets blamed Russia. So far, no further word on that "Ukrainian military cargo" jet from any party.

    Given this and how fast the rebels had pictures of the wreckage, I'd bet money that the rebels got trigger happy and stupid with their new toy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1

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