Torn on the War in Skyrim

[XIIGenocide]

I've played through Skyrim many times and as a result i've played through both as an Imperial and a Stormcloak. I have questions though that I was hoping someone could answer.

The book titled 'Great War' says something along the lines of Ulfric is working for the Thalmor in an attempt to divert the Imperial Legion's resources so that they cannot focus on forcing the Thalmor out of Cyrodil, is this true? If so wouldn't choosing the Legion be the obvious choice?

My view is that by defeating the Stormcloaks the Legion will have control of more than one province, making them stronger. A strong united Empire means that they can eventually force the Thalmor back and restore Talos worship, in turn making the Nords happy and achieving what the Stormcloaks are fighting for. Another question is knowing this, if you think that Ulfric isn't associated with the Thalmor that he would realize this and maybe even ally himself with the Legion so they can fight together to get there homelands back. But instead, he chooses to fight and be extremely prejudice to any race that isn't Nord. It is also obvious that Ulfric has ulterior motives, he says that his main goal is to restore Talos worship and to force the Legion out of Skyrim, when it is extremely obvious that he wants to become High King. But whats the point? If he does become High King the Legion and definitely the Thalmor are going to act, and if the Imperial Legion couldn't withstand the Aldmeri Dominion, a country that was very recently stricken with War and Dragon attacks would not fare much better, in fact I believe the Thalmor would destroy them just to make an example out of them, rebel and be killed.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts.

 

[AS88]

DrunkenMage is the dude to answer a lot of these points. I'mma leave it to him

Agree with you, though.

 

[Sven]

If I were you,I wouldn't take DrunkenMage's opinion,he lacks neutrality.Been drinking to much of the emperor's rainbow juice I say.

Then again,you shouldn't take mine either.I've been drinking too much of Ulfric's.

But I do say this:Ulfric is no spy or agent of the Thalmor,what he is doing infact is helping them,but not on purpose,he doesen't realise it.

 

[XIIGenocide]

If I were you,I wouldn't take DrunkenMage's opinion,he lacks neutrality.Been drinking to much of the emperor's rainbow juice I say.

Then again,you shouldn't take mine either.I've been drinking too much of Ulfric's.

But I do say this:Ulfric is no spy or agent of the Thalmor,what he is doing infact is helping them,but not on purpose,he doesen't realise it.

Well if I wouldn't want him as High King of Skyrim if he is as dull as that.

 

[Sven]

If I were you,I wouldn't take DrunkenMage's opinion,he lacks neutrality.Been drinking to much of the emperor's rainbow juice I say.

Then again,you shouldn't take mine either.I've been drinking too much of Ulfric's.

But I do say this:Ulfric is no spy or agent of the Thalmor,what he is doing infact is helping them,but not on purpose,he doesen't realise it.

Well if I wouldn't want him as High King of Skyrim if he is as dull as that.

Then would you want a weak emperor who bends over for the Thalmor on any occasion just to keep his weak falling apart empire together?

 

[XIIGenocide]

If I were you,I wouldn't take DrunkenMage's opinion,he lacks neutrality.Been drinking to much of the emperor's rainbow juice I say.

Then again,you shouldn't take mine either.I've been drinking too much of Ulfric's.

But I do say this:Ulfric is no spy or agent of the Thalmor,what he is doing infact is helping them,but not on purpose,he doesen't realise it.

Well if I wouldn't want him as High King of Skyrim if he is as dull as that.

Then would you want a weak emperor who bends over for the Thalmor on any occasion just to keep his weak falling apart empire together?

I'm on the side of myself at the moment. Haven't really taken sides hence the title.

But if he hadn't kept the Empire alive then I can imagine harsher actions been taken by the Thalmor. I'll admit Mede does play the role of a puppet but he still does have some authority. The Great War wasn't as one sided as the Thalmor like to think, they took heavy casualties as well and i'd think that they'd want to avoid that again. He has kept Skyrim from being destroyed, you don't see the Empire torturing the Stormcloaks, only the Aldermi Dominion.

 

[AS88]

If I were you,I wouldn't take DrunkenMage's opinion,he lacks neutrality.Been drinking to much of the emperor's rainbow juice I say.

Then again,you shouldn't take mine either.I've been drinking too much of Ulfric's.

But I do say this:Ulfric is no spy or agent of the Thalmor,what he is doing infact is helping them,but not on purpose,he doesen't realise it.

The questions that XIIGenocide is asking are topics that DM often makes reference to and bases his arguments on, more than anyone else I've seen on these forums. As someone who makes consistent and concise reference to those points, he's probably a good source from whom to get an opinion. Also, I haven't noticed a particular lack of neutrality; just because he favours the Empire doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't looking at sources in a balanced way. It's possible to be neutral but still argue for one side, when taking part in debate.

You're right in saying that Ulfric isn't purposefully making things easier for the Thalmor, though, and it's unusual and refreshing that you've admitted to be unwaveringly biased to Ulfric's side.

Then would you want a weak emperor who bends over for the Thalmor on any occasion just to keep his weak falling apart empire together?

That's a story for the other thread, but I don't know how you can categorise the Battle of the Red Ring 'bending over.'

 

[DrunkenMage]

"Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes." - General Tullius

Most of the issue some people have against the Mede Dynasty is that they aren't the Septims. Mainly those who have no clue on the Mede dynasty.

The Great War was a surprise attack, with the forces of the Aldmeri Dominion invading from hidden camps within Elsweyr. The Empire was never going to win the Great War, the Military weakness of the Empire was far greater than the Aldmeri Dominion during the Great War. Titus Mede II's leadership turned certain defeat into Imperial forces being victorious in destroying the main Dominion's army in Cyrodiil.

Peace was needed to rebuild, the White-Gold Concordat was signed and for twenty six years went without any issues. Ulfric and the Stormcloaks agitated the banning of Talos causing increased Thalmor presence. What was once a minor disturbance turned into a full blown Inquisition during the Civil War.

"We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down." - Alvor

The Empire is preparing for an all out war against the Aldmeri Dominion, the Thalmor are providing indirect aid to the Stormcloaks and even were in Helgen to try and stop the execution of Ulfric which would end in an Imperial victory which harms the overall position of the Thalmor.

The Thalmor take their views in the long run, the civil war keeps the Empire distracted as Skyrim erupts into a small and bloody Civil War. The Empire unable to dispatch a force to crush the rebellion due to the Aldmeri Dominion lining up on their borders where the Imperial army is staring them down while they're getting close to an invasion of the Dominion.

Ulfric and his Stormcloaks are fighting the locally recruited Militia (Auxiliary Legionnaires) as Tullius deals with the rebellion with a handful of poorly trained locally recruited soldiers.

Ulfric by starting his Civil War, fulfills the prophecy for the return of Alduin and nearly causes the destruction of the known world. Which only in his death does he realize the error of what he has caused in only making the World Eater stronger.

"Skyrim was betrayed, the blood of her sons spilled in doomed struggle against fate. And so in death, too late, I learn the truth - fed by war, so waxed the power of Alduin, World-Eater - wisdom now useless. By gods' jest in this grim mist together snared, Stormcloak and Imperial, we wander hopeless, waiting for succor." - Ulfric Stormcloak

 

[XIIGenocide]

Also, I happen to be on the side of the Argonians, and the conditions that Ulfric makes them live in, outside the city in the Argonian Assemblage doesn't really put him in my favor either. What? Because they're not Nords they're not allowed the 'privilege' of living within city walls? The discrimination puts me against him even more.

The Argonians fought and made themselves and an independent country, this should make me want to fight for the Nords, but they are going about in the wrong way, especially considering the circumstances.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Also, I happen to be on the side of the Argonians, and the conditions that Ulfric makes them live in, outside the city in the Argonian Assemblage doesn't really put him in my favor either. What? Because they're not Nords they're not allowed the 'privilege' of living within city walls? The discrimination puts me against him even more.

The Argonians fought and made themselves and an independent country, this should make me want to fight for the Nords, but they are going about in the wrong way, especially considering the circumstances.

Torygg was actually interested in hearing more about going independent. Ulfric requested an audience and everyone thought he was going to ask Torygg to declare independence. Instead he killed Torygg, fled back to Windhelm and started the Civil War.

Peacefully leaving the Empire, doesn't make for a good song.

 

[XIIGenocide]

Also, I happen to be on the side of the Argonians, and the conditions that Ulfric makes them live in, outside the city in the Argonian Assemblage doesn't really put him in my favor either. What? Because they're not Nords they're not allowed the 'privilege' of living within city walls? The discrimination puts me against him even more.

The Argonians fought and made themselves and an independent country, this should make me want to fight for the Nords, but they are going about in the wrong way, especially considering the circumstances.

Torygg was actually interested in hearing more about going independent. Ulfric requested an audience and everyone thought he was going to ask Torygg to declare independence. Instead he killed Torygg, fled back to Windhelm and started the Civil War.

Peacefully leaving the Empire, doesn't make for a good song.

It seems to me that independence could have been negotiated, but Ulfric was too blind with either corruption or stupidity to see that.

Ulfrics philosophy was wrong in my opinion. He said that Torygg was not fit to lead because he was so easily killed by Ulfric himself, and because Ulfric killed Torygg that he is now fit to lead, does that mean when I seige Windhelm and give Ulfric the same treatment he gave to Torygg that I am now fit to lead and will be rightfully crown High King of Skyrim? Ulfric died, therefore he was not fit to lead, his philosophy, not mine.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Also, I happen to be on the side of the Argonians, and the conditions that Ulfric makes them live in, outside the city in the Argonian Assemblage doesn't really put him in my favor either. What? Because they're not Nords they're not allowed the 'privilege' of living within city walls? The discrimination puts me against him even more.

The Argonians fought and made themselves and an independent country, this should make me want to fight for the Nords, but they are going about in the wrong way, especially considering the circumstances.

Torygg was actually interested in hearing more about going independent. Ulfric requested an audience and everyone thought he was going to ask Torygg to declare independence. Instead he killed Torygg, fled back to Windhelm and started the Civil War.

Peacefully leaving the Empire, doesn't make for a good song.

It seems to me that independence could have been negotiated, but Ulfric was too blind with either corruption or stupidity to see that.

Ulfrics philosophy was wrong in my opinion. He said that Torygg was not fit to lead because he was so easily killed by Ulfric himself, and because Ulfric killed Torygg that he is now fit to lead, does that mean when I seige Windhelm and give Ulfric the same treatment he gave to Torygg that I am now fit to lead and will be rightfully crown High King of Skyrim? Ulfric died, therefore he was not fit to lead, his philosophy, not mine.

He was willing to kill someone as young as Torygg, who only had very limited martial ability. But actually won't face Balgruuf who challenges him man to man, regardless of Civil war choice.

Balgruuf: "I'm not a fool, Proventus. I mean it's time to challenge Ulfric to face me as a man, or march his Stormcloaks up to the gates."

Proventus: "He'll do no such thing! A dagger in the back is all you could expect!"

Irileth: "He was rather straight forward with Torygg."
Proventus: "Torygg? He simply walked up to the boy and murdered him!"

Irileth: "That "boy" was High King of Skyrim."

Balgruuf: "I'm not the High King, but neither am I a boy. If Ulfric wants to challenge my rule in the old way, let him. Though I suspect he'll prefer to send his "Stormcloaks" to do it for him."

 

[XIIGenocide]

All of this in support of the Empire and i'm yet to see any plausible explaination or proof that what Ulfric is doing has good intentions. It is only early in the thread though, I do hope that someone will enlighten to the actions of Ulfric and the Stormcloaks.

Thank you for all this information DrunkenMage

 

[HappyFaceClown]

I've played through Skyrim many times and as a result i've played through both as an Imperial and a Stormcloak. I have questions though that I was hoping someone could answer.

The book titled 'Great War' says something along the lines of Ulfric is working for the Thalmor in an attempt to divert the Imperial Legion's resources so that they cannot focus on forcing the Thalmor out of Cyrodil, is this true? If so wouldn't choosing the Legion be the obvious choice?

My view is that by defeating the Stormcloaks the Legion will have control of more than one province, making them stronger. A strong united Empire means that they can eventually force the Thalmor back and restore Talos worship, in turn making the Nords happy and achieving what the Stormcloaks are fighting for. Another question is knowing this, if you think that Ulfric isn't associated with the Thalmor that he would realize this and maybe even ally himself with the Legion so they can fight together to get there homelands back. But instead, he chooses to fight and be extremely prejudice to any race that isn't Nord. It is also obvious that Ulfric has ulterior motives, he says that his main goal is to restore Talos worship and to force the Legion out of Skyrim, when it is extremely obvious that he wants to become High King. But whats the point? If he does become High King the Legion and definitely the Thalmor are going to act, and if the Imperial Legion couldn't withstand the Aldmeri Dominion, a country that was very recently stricken with War and Dragon attacks would not fare much better, in fact I believe the Thalmor would destroy them just to make an example out of them, rebel and be killed.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts.

imperial fanboys like Drunkenmage will tell you yes, but he doesn't go by the "actual" story of the game itself so i urge you not to fall for his bs and do your own research. Ulfric does not work for the thalmor in any way, shape or form, true lore states he was held captive and tortured by them for many months, Uflric's hatred for the thalmor actually surpasses that of anyone in Skyrim, simply cause of what they did to him, you can only imagine the torture methods they used on the poor guy.. next time you do the quest "Diplomatic Immunity" pay close attention to the various notes and journals you encounter, there is a ton of back story found throughout that quest providing all the answers you need, asking about this on here you will only get opinions not facts so you're much better off researching it yourself.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Argonians fought and made themselves and an independent country, this should make me want to fight for the Nords, but they are going about in the wrong way, especially considering the circumstances.

If you're interested in a little history on the Argonians. During the Oblivion Crisis, which they were crazy.

The Argonians poured into the Oblivion Gates with such ferocity that Dagon's lieutenants had to close them. This resulted in an astounding victory for the Argonians and led to the collapse of the Empire in Black Marsh as the Argonians turned to the An-Xileel.

 

[XIIGenocide]

I've played through Skyrim many times and as a result i've played through both as an Imperial and a Stormcloak. I have questions though that I was hoping someone could answer.

The book titled 'Great War' says something along the lines of Ulfric is working for the Thalmor in an attempt to divert the Imperial Legion's resources so that they cannot focus on forcing the Thalmor out of Cyrodil, is this true? If so wouldn't choosing the Legion be the obvious choice?

My view is that by defeating the Stormcloaks the Legion will have control of more than one province, making them stronger. A strong united Empire means that they can eventually force the Thalmor back and restore Talos worship, in turn making the Nords happy and achieving what the Stormcloaks are fighting for. Another question is knowing this, if you think that Ulfric isn't associated with the Thalmor that he would realize this and maybe even ally himself with the Legion so they can fight together to get there homelands back. But instead, he chooses to fight and be extremely prejudice to any race that isn't Nord. It is also obvious that Ulfric has ulterior motives, he says that his main goal is to restore Talos worship and to force the Legion out of Skyrim, when it is extremely obvious that he wants to become High King. But whats the point? If he does become High King the Legion and definitely the Thalmor are going to act, and if the Imperial Legion couldn't withstand the Aldmeri Dominion, a country that was very recently stricken with War and Dragon attacks would not fare much better, in fact I believe the Thalmor would destroy them just to make an example out of them, rebel and be killed.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts.

imperial fanboys like Drunkenmage will tell you yes, but he doesn't go by the "actual" story of the game itself so i urge you not to fall for his bs and do your own research. Ulfric does not work for the thalmor in any way, shape or form, true lore states he was held captive and tortured by them for many months, Uflric's hatred for the thalmor actually surpasses that of anyone in Skyrim, simply cause of what they did to him, you can only imagine the torture methods they used on the poor guy.. next time you do the quest "Diplomatic Immunity" pay close attention to the various notes and journals you encounter, there is a ton of back story found throughout that quest providing all the answers you need, asking about this on here you will only get opinions not facts so you're much better off researching it yourself.

That maybe so, but the discrimination that he holds towards all other races is undeserving. As I recall the Thalmor tortured him yes? So why do the Argonians have to live outside of the city? What is the justification for that? Because he was tortured by Thalmor he now hates all races but his own? How senseless.

 

[DrunkenMage]

imperial fanboys like Drunkenmage will tell you yes, but he doesn't go by the "actual" story of the game itself so i urge you not to fall for his bs and do your own research. Ulfric does not work for the thalmor in any way, shape or form, true lore states he was held captive and tortured by them for many months, Uflric's hatred for the thalmor actually surpasses that of anyone in Skyrim, simply cause of what they did to him, you can only imagine the torture methods they used on the poor guy.. next time you do the quest "Diplomatic Immunity" pay close attention to the various notes and journals you encounter, there is a ton of back story found throughout that quest providing all the answers you need, asking about this on here you will only get opinions not facts so you're much better off researching it yourself.

I don't go by the "actual" story? Haven't heard that one before.

 

[XIIGenocide]

The Argonians fought and made themselves and an independent country, this should make me want to fight for the Nords, but they are going about in the wrong way, especially considering the circumstances.

If you're interested in a little history on the Argonians. During the Oblivion Crisis, which they were crazy.

The Argonians poured into the Oblivion Gates with such ferocity that Dagon's lieutenants had to close them. This resulted in an astounding victory for the Argonians and led to the collapse of the Empire in Black Marsh as the Argonians turned to the An-Xileel.

I've based my latest Argonian off of the An-Xileel. I love the Argonian lore.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I've based my latest Argonian off of the An-Xileel. I love the Argonian lore.

As Clown says, don't take my word for it. Take an Argonian's word for it; http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Scouts-Many-Marshes

Though when it comes to these Stormcloak supporters, if it is something bad about them. Everyone one else is making stuff up

 

[HappyFaceClown]

I've played through Skyrim many times and as a result i've played through both as an Imperial and a Stormcloak. I have questions though that I was hoping someone could answer.

The book titled 'Great War' says something along the lines of Ulfric is working for the Thalmor in an attempt to divert the Imperial Legion's resources so that they cannot focus on forcing the Thalmor out of Cyrodil, is this true? If so wouldn't choosing the Legion be the obvious choice?

My view is that by defeating the Stormcloaks the Legion will have control of more than one province, making them stronger. A strong united Empire means that they can eventually force the Thalmor back and restore Talos worship, in turn making the Nords happy and achieving what the Stormcloaks are fighting for. Another question is knowing this, if you think that Ulfric isn't associated with the Thalmor that he would realize this and maybe even ally himself with the Legion so they can fight together to get there homelands back. But instead, he chooses to fight and be extremely prejudice to any race that isn't Nord. It is also obvious that Ulfric has ulterior motives, he says that his main goal is to restore Talos worship and to force the Legion out of Skyrim, when it is extremely obvious that he wants to become High King. But whats the point? If he does become High King the Legion and definitely the Thalmor are going to act, and if the Imperial Legion couldn't withstand the Aldmeri Dominion, a country that was very recently stricken with War and Dragon attacks would not fare much better, in fact I believe the Thalmor would destroy them just to make an example out of them, rebel and be killed.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts.

imperial fanboys like Drunkenmage will tell you yes, but he doesn't go by the "actual" story of the game itself so i urge you not to fall for his bs and do your own research. Ulfric does not work for the thalmor in any way, shape or form, true lore states he was held captive and tortured by them for many months, Uflric's hatred for the thalmor actually surpasses that of anyone in Skyrim, simply cause of what they did to him, you can only imagine the torture methods they used on the poor guy.. next time you do the quest "Diplomatic Immunity" pay close attention to the various notes and journals you encounter, there is a ton of back story found throughout that quest providing all the answers you need, asking about this on here you will only get opinions not facts so you're much better off researching it yourself.

That maybe so, but the discrimination that he holds towards all other races is undeserving. As I recall the Thalmor tortured him yes? So why do the Argonians have to live outside of the city? What is the justification for that? Because he was tortured by Thalmor he now hates all races but his own? How senseless.

there is no proof that he discriminates against any other race, thats "made up imperial fanboy bs" meant to demonize them, its not actually true.. most towns people who support the stormcloaks do in fact resent elves because they refuse to help Ulfric and his cause, NOT just cause they are elves. as for argonians you won't find any in most imperial controlled holds either, whiterun for example has no argonians, of course imperial fanboys won't tell you that.. lol