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JechtFayth

Member
I was curious whether or not it's a good idea to level grind.... I have a level 20 mage... and was considering just boosting up my Speech and Enchanting right now to gain more money faster as well as be super over powered....

I liked the idea of going through the Dark Brotherhood just crushing everything in my path as well as with the Civil War along with the Main questline too. Was considering Holding off on the Civil War to get some Dragon Shouts... but Idk yet...

I'm a pure magic caster... so only use destruction spells.

where i'm at now
Total Level: 20
Lvl 75 Destruction; Perks
Lvl 50 Illusion; Perks just to Quiet Casting only
Lvl 55 Enchanting; Perks
Lvl 33 Speech; No perks so far
Lvl 35 Sneak; No perks so far
Lvl 34 Lockpicking; No perks so far
Restoration and Alteration will be worked on at a later time, just not important to me at this time.
I am NOT using Conjuration ever.

Using the Perk tree calculator, My max level will be Level 57 since I will have all the perks I want once I'm that level.

Here's my perk tree: Skyrim Perk Calculator And Respec Tool
I hope this link works, cause apparently the Tree calc is down for this website currently :/

I would be roughly Level 28-32 depending what I did with speech, if I were to boost Speech, Enchanting and Destruction up to 100 putting perks into each of them in their rightful spot... so would the extra 8-12 levels make much of a difference in dungeons and difficulties for the remaining quests?
 

ShadowGambit

Active Member
In my opinion, level grinding is never good if you grind non combat skills first.

It is even more true for a caster using destruction magic as his main attack.

The reason is that with level grinding, you will increase your level but also therefore increase the level of your opponents. But destruction magic doesn't scale with your level, it stays the same and does the exact same damage, you being a caster level 10 or level 50. But enemies level 50 will have MUCH MORE HP, mostly if you play on master.

Because destruction magic doesn't scale, the higher your level, the weaker in comparaison your output damage will be.

So I wouldn't advise on level grinding for a destruction mage.

Note : look into Alchemy. Destruction potion is the only way to increase your damage output.
 

Tivo

Dovahkiin
I'm working on a summoner/destruction mage right now and this is what I did....

I started with 100 speech so merchants would have 1000 more gold (in their chests :p)

Then I got 100 smithing and enchanting.

I made and upgraded a full set of daedric armor and enchanted for a total of 100% reduced magicka cost for conjuration and destruction spells (All of my destruction and conjuration spells cost 0 magicka to cast so I can spam even the master level spells indefinitely)

Then I went and got conjuration and destruction up to master level.

I can use heavy armor effectively because I use the Steed Standing stone.

In combat all I have to do is summon my storm thralls (you can use any, I just went with storm because they aren't hurt by my shock spells) and fight from afar with lightning storm. I'm not having much of a problem at all at level 53 and on master.
 

JechtFayth

Member
In my opinion, level grinding is never good if you grind non combat skills first.

It is even more true for a caster using destruction magic as his main attack.

The reason is that with level grinding, you will increase your level but also therefore increase the level of your opponents. But destruction magic doesn't scale with your level, it stays the same and does the exact same damage, you being a caster level 10 or level 50. But enemies level 50 will have MUCH MORE HP, mostly if you play on master.

Because destruction magic doesn't scale, the higher your level, the weaker in comparaison your output damage will be.

So I wouldn't advise on level grinding for a destruction mage.

Note : look into Alchemy. Destruction potion is the only way to increase your damage output.

The thing is though.... I would be making it so my Destruction magic would cost 0 if I just shot my enchanting up... and I already have it where fire damage does 50% more damage or something...

would there be a significant difference in the 8-12 levels?
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
I don't recommend grinding levels simply because it's not fun. If you allocate perks properly though you won't have a problem scaling damage. If you haven't already done it I would recommend taking both Augmented Flames perks, the Dual Casting perk and the Impact perk which will get you to 217 points of damage per attack with staggering effects from the Incinerate spell. I'd be more concerned about what your strategy is to mitigate damage if you're not going to use Conjuration or Restoration magic
 

JechtFayth

Member
In my opinion, level grinding is never good if you grind non combat skills first.

It is even more true for a caster using destruction magic as his main attack.

The reason is that with level grinding, you will increase your level but also therefore increase the level of your opponents. But destruction magic doesn't scale with your level, it stays the same and does the exact same damage, you being a caster level 10 or level 50. But enemies level 50 will have MUCH MORE HP, mostly if you play on master.

Because destruction magic doesn't scale, the higher your level, the weaker in comparaison your output damage will be.

So I wouldn't advise on level grinding for a destruction mage.

Note : look into Alchemy. Destruction potion is the only way to increase your damage output.

im not grinding non combat skills first......its in my first post........................... lvl 75 destruction........expert level spells..... thats my highest skill.............there's really no other spells after that since the master spells can wait and they take alot longer to cast.............. so i dont see where I am grinding non combat skills higher than combat..... i asked if it would be bad to go up 8-12 levels..... I have all the damage i need due to the wall of spells and incinerate and thunderbolt...... and i calculated what level i would be if I brought enchanting and speech up to 100... which is the 8-12 levels.... would bring me from 20- 28 or 32

is that a significant leap of levels? cause if i just threw my enchanting up, i could then cast my destruction spells at 0 cost meaning i would kill everything super fast no matter what.... so ya.....


I apologize if im coming off rude or cross..... just in my head it sounded like a simple question... but I may not have directed my question in a correct way or made it too broad sounding..... if i didnt then please help me see what i could have said differently in orginial post. thanks
 

Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
In my limited play , I saw more than a few new bad guys appearing @lvl 30 or so.
Powerful ones among the Dragr , vampires , mages , and Falmer gave me fits
But it`s nothing you can`t handle if (Dagmar is right on target) you`re good with Lightning Storm/Incinerate and can avoid/heal damage
I did the Dragon Priests @ lvl 40 and I can tell you they were plenty tough and quite evasive
 

JechtFayth

Member
In my limited play , I saw more than a few new bad guys appearing @lvl 30 or so.
Powerful ones among the Dragr , vampires , mages , and Falmer gave me fits
But it`s nothing you can`t handle if (Dagmar is right on target) you`re good with Lightning Storm/Incinerate and can avoid/heal damage
I did the Dragon Priests @ lvl 40 and I can tell you they were plenty tough and quite evasive
nice..... so do you think just hopping up 8-12 would be that much a significant challenge when i can already cast incinerate and thunderbolt or storm... whatever the expert level one is.... just cant spam cast yet.... need 100 enchanting to do so.... thats what my question is... since i was gonna just bring up speech to make prices go down so i can do enchanting a little faster for cheaper and get more money back..... and once i got enchanting up making it so i can just keep dual casting incinerate and any other expert level destruction spell.
 

VonCrown

Member
Alchemy will probably help you more with replenishing your pocketbook to get enchanting up than speech would, and will also net you the ability to make fortify destruction potions into the bargain.
 

ShadowGambit

Active Member
I think that if you powergrind Enchanting from 55 to 100, Speech from 33 to 100 and get your destruction to 100 as well as your Illusion going up, you will be around your late 30's early 40's.

If I'm not wrong, and Dagmar can correct me if I'm wrong, there is a "visible" increment of your enemies every 10 levels. 30's should be manageable. But as Adam Warlock says, Dragon Priests at 40 (like most NPC) are fully develop in their "main skill" so much harder to beat.
 

JechtFayth

Member
I think that if you powergrind Enchanting from 55 to 100, Speech from 33 to 100 and get your destruction to 100 as well as your Illusion going up, you will be around your late 30's early 40's.

If I'm not wrong, and Dagmar can correct me if I'm wrong, there is a "visible" increment of your enemies every 10 levels. 30's should be manageable. But as Adam Warlock says, Dragon Priests at 40 (like most NPC) are fully develop in their "main skill" so much harder to beat.

I was just gonna keep my illusion to 50 since I will not be using any spells from that school. just needed quiet casting.

so you think just the slightest level grinding to level 100 for just enchanting, speech, and destruction at this point in time would be fine? I'm only level 20 and just dont know if going 8-12 levels is really gonna mean anything or not..... since thats how many levels i would go up if i were to just shoot destruction, speech and enchanting up now to 100. the reason it would be 8-12 opposed to only 8 or 12 is cause I may just have 1/5 for haggling instead of 5/5
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
I think that if you powergrind Enchanting from 55 to 100, Speech from 33 to 100 and get your destruction to 100 as well as your Illusion going up, you will be around your late 30's early 40's.
I'm not sure why you're factoring in Illusion when JechtFayth didn't mention anything about leveling it. His estimate is fairly accurate If he levels Destruction, Enchanting and Speech to 100 with his current stats he will be level 29 give or take a level.
If I'm not wrong, and Dagmar can correct me if I'm wrong, there is a "visible" increment of your enemies every 10 levels. 30's should be manageable. But as Adam Warlock says, Dragon Priests at 40 (like most NPC) are fully develop in their "main skill" so much harder to beat.
The increments of level of enemies depends on the type of enemy and it's not necessarily in even increments. For example normal Bandits level as 1/5/9/14/19/25, Bandit Chiefs level as 6/10/16/21/28, Dragons level as 10/20/30/40/50, Draugr Warriors level as 1/6/13/21/30/40, Draugr Overlords level as 7/15/24/34/45 and Dragon Priests are always level 50. As you level you'll increase the range of levels for enemies you may encounter. You can still encounter lower level enemies but higher level enemies will be added to the table of possible leveled enemy encounters. The level cap unlocked isn't even necessarily close to your actual level as you can encounter a level 50 Ancient Dragon at level 36 or so, but it's rare to encounter this kind of disparity between your level and your enemies and I've never experienced it to that extent for anything but Dragons.
 

JechtFayth

Member
I'm not sure why you're factoring in Illusion when JechtFayth didn't mention anything about leveling it. His estimate is fairly accurate If he levels Destruction, Enchanting and Speech to 100 with his current stats he will be level 29 give or take a level.

The increments of level of enemies depends on the type of enemy and it's not necessarily in even increments. For example normal Bandits level as 1/5/9/14/19/25, Bandit Chiefs level as 6/10/16/21/28, Dragons level as 10/20/30/40/50, Draugr Warriors level as 1/6/13/21/30/40, Draugr Overlords level as 7/15/24/34/45 and Dragon Priests are always level 50. As you level you'll increase the range of levels for enemies you may encounter. You can still encounter lower level enemies but higher level enemies will be added to the table of possible leveled enemy encounters. The level cap unlocked isn't even necessarily close to your actual level as you can encounter a level 50 Ancient Dragon at level 36 or so, but it's rare to encounter this kind of disparity between your level and your enemies and I've never experienced it to that extent for anything but Dragons.

ok so going from level 20 up to 28-32 really wouldnt be too bad of a thing since i would most likely be able to spam cast all expert level destruction spells for my damage and stuff?
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
With 100 Enchanting, 5 Enchanter perks, and the Insightful Enchanter perk you could enchant robes, hood/circlet, ring and necklace with Fortify Destruction for 0 magicka cost for Destruction spells so yes you could spam Destruction spells.
 

ShadowGambit

Active Member
I'm not sure why you're factoring in Illusion when JechtFayth didn't mention anything about leveling it. His estimate is fairly accurate If he levels Destruction, Enchanting and Speech to 100 with his current stats he will be level 29 give or take a level.

The increments of level of enemies depends on the type of enemy and it's not necessarily in even increments. For example normal Bandits level as 1/5/9/14/19/25, Bandit Chiefs level as 6/10/16/21/28, Dragons level as 10/20/30/40/50, Draugr Warriors level as 1/6/13/21/30/40, Draugr Overlords level as 7/15/24/34/45 and Dragon Priests are always level 50. As you level you'll increase the range of levels for enemies you may encounter. You can still encounter lower level enemies but higher level enemies will be added to the table of possible leveled enemy encounters. The level cap unlocked isn't even necessarily close to your actual level as you can encounter a level 50 Ancient Dragon at level 36 or so, but it's rare to encounter this kind of disparity between your level and your enemies and I've never experienced it to that extent for anything but Dragons.

I was just factoring in Illusion because, as you said, he has no real mean to resist/avoid damage. Illusion, as it is one of his skill already well leveled, can help him on that matter with Fury/Calm and then Pacify/Frenzy.
 

JechtFayth

Member
With 100 Enchanting, 5 Enchanter perks, and the Insightful Enchanter perk you could enchant robes, hood/circlet, ring and necklace with Fortify Destruction for 0 magicka cost for Destruction spells so yes you could spam Destruction spells.
ok just was looking for that... thanks. so you would say go wild on the boosting enchanting up quickly along with destruction and speech all up to 100 since it really wouldnt affect me much?
 

JechtFayth

Member
I was just factoring in Illusion because, as you said, he has no real mean to resist/avoid damage. Illusion, as it is one of his skill already well leveled, can help him on that matter with Fury/Calm and then Pacify/Frenzy.
lol, i just take the damage like a tank....... sort of.... I figured i would just kill everything quicker than they kill me, and if i struggle then i try a different approach on my first advance on the target.
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
ok just was looking for that... thanks. so you would say go wild on the boosting enchanting up quickly along with destruction and speech all up to 100 since it really wouldnt affect me much?
Not with your current build. Some people start grinding their crafting skills with much lower combat skill stats which can make for serious problems dealing with their leveled encounters.
 

JechtFayth

Member
Not with your current build. Some people start grinding their crafting skills with much lower combat skill stats which can make for serious problems dealing with their leveled encounters.

whats wrong with my current build? I already can cast expert level destruction spells... just need to be able to cast them with no cost and im golden.... arent i? and speech is just so I can more so exploit the dawnstar chest even more..... so it doesnt take as long to get money back since i spent over 70-90k on leveling destruction itself since i got frusterated about having lost my previous mage and in this playthrough, my magic wasnt even at the level it was before and i had done just as many quests....
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
Lol, I meant it wont affect you much in a negative way because your build already has some combat skills up high enough. :p
 

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