It was Kyne not Paarthurnax that helped mortalkind

[CaptMorgan72]

I always thought that Paarthurnax defected from Alduin's reign and helped mortal kind because of a change in his heart. Now I learned that he was in fact just an instrument used by the goddess Kyne to teach mortal kind the Thu'um. Without intervention by Kyne, it is more than likely that Paarthurnax never would have turned on Alduin. When I take that into consideration and think about all the death and destruction done by Paarthurnax, I am starting to see logic in Delphine's reasoning that Paarthurnax has to die for his crimes.

 

[LotusEater]

I always thought that Paarthurnax defected from Alduin's reign and helped mortal kind because of a change in his heart. Now I learned that he was in fact just an instrument used by the goddess Kyne to teach mortal kind the Thu'um. Without intervention by Kyne, it is more than likely that Paarthurnax never would have turned on Alduin. When I take that into consideration and think about all the death and destruction done by Paarthurnax, I am starting to see logic in Delphine's reasoning that Paarthurnax has to die for his crimes.

I always kill Paarth. Never trusted him to begin with. This info just confirms my choice to kill that weak-minded fool. I always figured that if he could be swayed one way, chances are he could be swayed again in the future... against me. I don't take chances, we meditate then he dies. That's all Skyrim needs is for Paarth to change his mind again or, more accurately, be controlled by another, and muster the lazy Greybeards into action. I squash that possibility early.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

Source?
That would sadden me to be honest... but I doubt I'd kill him. Kyne didn't tell him to help me defeat Alduin.

 

[LotusEater]

Source?
That would sadden me to be honest... but I doubt I'd kill him. Kyne didn't tell him to help me defeat Alduin.

Of course Paarth is gonna help you at that point. Alduin came back and is highly pissed at him for betraying him. He'd be dumb to not help you. He's not nearly powerful enough to face him on his own. Check his stats. He's basically a glorified Blood Dragon.

 

[Remington721]

He is so easy to destroy , very weak . So mabye Paarth is playing all of us for the fool , I have only killed him 2 times out of probley a hundred .

 

[Rimfaxe96]

Of course Paarth is gonna help you at that point. Alduin came back and is highly pissed at him for betraying him. He'd be dumb to not help you. He's not nearly powerful enough to face him on his own. Check his stats. He's basically a glorified Blood Dragon.

That doesn't answer my question for a source though.

 

[LotusEater]

Of course Paarth is gonna help you at that point. Alduin came back and is highly pissed at him for betraying him. He'd be dumb to not help you. He's not nearly powerful enough to face him on his own. Check his stats. He's basically a glorified Blood Dragon.

That doesn't answer my question for a source though.

I had no intention of providing you a source. I was addressing your statement about how Kyne didn't tell him to help you and merely pointing out that it was in his best interest to do so for his own survival. The second most powerful being in the scenario, Alduin, is a bridge burned for him. He's smart, but being smart doesn't make him loyal. I personally don't need a source, the evidence is enough for me in the game.

 

[Ivory]

I personally don't need a source, the evidence is enough for me in the game.

You have no concrete evidence. This is all speculation. You do realize this right? It's not truth nor false unless lore is provided. Just simple speculation. Kyne didn't teach Mortals the thu'um directly only granted them their ability. Nor is there any such Lore to state Kyne used Parthurnaax as her instrument. Parthurnaax took it upon himself to teach mortals the Voice.

Just wanna make sure you know you're not saying any real truth, just your personal head cannon as it were before you confuse other players.

 

[LotusEater]

I personally don't need a source, the evidence is enough for me in the game.

You have no concrete evidence. This is all speculation. You do realize this right? It's not truth nor false unless lore is provided. Just simple speculation. Kyne didn't teach Mortals the thu'um directly only granted them their ability. Nor is there any such Lore to state Kyne used Parthurnaax as her instrument. Parthurnaax took it upon himself to teach mortals the Voice.

Just wanna make sure you know you're not saying any real truth, just your personal head cannon as it were before you confuse other players.

I'm not the one that made that claim in the first place. Reread the thread. I couldn't care less about lore one way or another, Paarth dies in all my playthroughs because I don't trust him. Yes, I have speculated many, many times now after all the playthroughs and my speculations always lead to me agreeing with the Blades. Kill Paarth. He's a turncoat whether Kyne controlled him or not. Once a turncoat, always a turncoat. That's how I feel and that's why I enjoy killing him even more than Alduin, Miraak and Harkon. He's hid for thousands of years, but he can't hide from me.

Quote the OP if you feel like bickering about lore. I'm not interested. All I know is that his name means: Ambition Overlord Cruelty and that Kyne may have used him as an instrument. That's not deep lore, it's right on the wiki, but it's good enough for me. If I were so inclined, I would ask you for concrete evidence showing that he wasn't controlled by Kyne. But really, don't bother because as I stated earlier, I couldn't care less.

In all honesty, in my opinion, bickering and debating Elder Scrolls lore is nothing but an exercise in futility. It's spotty and incomplete at best. You may as well rip half the pages from an American Civil War history book, read it and then debate it. Seriously a waste of time but it's your life, do what you want.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

I had no intention of providing you a source. I was addressing your statement about how Kyne didn't tell him to help you and merely pointing out that it was in his best interest to do so for his own survival. The second most powerful being in the scenario, Alduin, is a bridge burned for him. He's smart, but being smart doesn't make him loyal. I personally don't need a source, the evidence is enough for me in the game.

Then you had no reason to even reply to my post.
One could also say that without Kyne granting the ability of the Thu'um, Paarthurnax would have never turned against his own kind. Why would he? If he turned against dragons, whose weakest members still breath fire and ice and can fly, while all he had were "mere humans" with swords as weapon, that would have been a battle lost already. Could be that Kyne provided that last bit of "persuasion" in him by granting humans the Thu'um powers, but if he wanted power, he could have just stayed Alduin's right-hand dragon and take control over all mortals that exist on Tamriel. Not just sit on a mountain for thousands of years meditating or teaching 5 men who never leave their little castle.

Well, as Ivory said, this is probably mostly head cannon. And discussing lore is the only way to make absolute statements that are either true, or false. This thread however provided nothing so far. And Bethesda's fondness of rarely giving exact information is not relevant.

 

[JClarke1953]

Hey hey, take it easy, lol! The only change in the game that'll happen if you kill Par is that the Blades will talk to you, but the Greybeards won't.

Other than that, nothing much else will happen, and I seriously doubt Bethesda is going to put out any more add-on's or anything else concerning Skyrim. So killing Par isn't going to change, or result in much difference, one way or the other.

 

[khazan99]

The fourth stone etched tablet (Emblem IV) on the way up to High Hrothgar references Kyne's involvement with Paarthurnax, though the choice of words is important I suppose; it says she "called on" Paarthurnax and "together" they taught Men the Voice. It doesn't use any pejorative term like "used" or "manipulated", and further states that they instructed Men in the Way of the Voice jointly.

Source here, or, you know....climb up the mountain in-game and read it

 

[JClarke1953]

I'd forgotten about that, it's been so long since I trekked up that long a__ trail!

 

[khazan99]

I'd forgotten about that, it's been so long since I trekked up that long a__ trail!

LOL yes it's not exactly a pleasant walk through a meadow, is it?

 

[JClarke1953]

ROFL! No, it's not exactly a "pleasant" hike!

 

[Jader]

I always thought Kyne enabled mortals the ability to learn and Paarthurnax taught the thu'um itself.

 

[khazan99]

And back on topic, I don't know if there is meant to be any definitive answer to the OP point. Referencing the translation of the name "Paarthurnax" does indeed confirm his villainous nature, but then again, he was given his name long before his involvement with Kyne's instruction in the Voice. In other words, though he had all the characteristics of "Ambition Overlord Cruelty" whilst loyal to Alduin, he apparently underwent a change of heart once selected, or prior to being selected, by Kyne to assist in the instruction of Men.

And that is obviously the conflict here because it is unclear if his nature changed for the better because of Kyne's selection of him or if he had begun to change his loyalties before Kyne chose him to help Her.

It's completely speculation, but i'd assume that Kyne chose him because he had begun to pity Men and began his change of heart; She saw him as a willing instrument to help Men at that point in the Dragon Wars. There's a passage in "The Dragon War" that states that some dragons had already begun to take the side of Men in the War, though it was unclear why, so I'd assume Paarthurnax was one of those.

 

[Jader]

His name,translated, can be taken to mean multiple things.While yes it's easier to assume he'll eventually turn evil again,it's as i said,one of many interpretations that could be made.

 

[CaptMorgan72]

Source?
That would sadden me to be honest... but I doubt I'd kill him. Kyne didn't tell him to help me defeat Alduin.

I got my source from the wiki. Everything I have read about Kyne and Paarth suggests that Kyne influenced Paarth to help mortalkind. Take Kyne out of the equation and I wonder if Paarth would have betrayed Alduin. I have never killed Paarth before in my many playthroughs, this is the first time for me. Oddly enough, he didn't fight back, he just stood there and let me kill him.

 

[Remington721]

Source?
That would sadden me to be honest... but I doubt I'd kill him. Kyne didn't tell him to help me defeat Alduin.

I got my source from the wiki. Everything I have read about Kyne and Paarth suggests that Kyne influenced Paarth to help mortalkind. Take Kyne out of the equation and I wonder if Paarth would have betrayed Alduin. I have never killed Paarth before in my many playthroughs, this is the first time for me. Oddly enough, he didn't fight back, he just stood there and let me kill him.

Yeah I killed him 1 or 2 times and never felt good or right in doing it . I'll never do it again .