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Discussion in 'General Skyrim Discussion' started by InnocentRoggy, Jul 1, 2020.
Did Roggvir actually open the gates to Solitude or not? What evidence can you bring up?
Of what? He opened the gates for a murderer to escape unscathed. It's pretty cut and dry.
Not sure what you need:
1) He was a city guard (who's job is to uphold the law)
2) He opened the gate for the guy who had just murdered his king (okay, we can argue whether it was murder or not, but the way I see it is that, as long as Ulfric used an ability that there was no defense against and that no-one else could have used, it was definitely not "Fair" combat.
3) As an employee of a city that he knew was an Imperial Stronghold, had an Imperial garrison AND a High King (and Queen) that supported the Imperial position, he had an obligation to fulfill and uphold the laws of his hold.
Of course, in this case, it was not his position to aid and abet a criminal by allowing him to escape in violation of the terms and obligations of his employment.
He has committed treason and is therefore getting what he deserves
That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if he even opened the gate in the first place. I played the game multiple times, and I couldn't find any evidence of his treason other than Captain Aldis talking about it when he was executed. And he doesn't say he was there to see him. Therefore, it could be argued that Roggvir didn't open the gate, and Ulfric is simply passing the blame to him so that they would have one less guard for the invading Stormcloaks to deal with.
As so many of the witnesses seem to confirm it, including his brother in law, I kind of assume that it is true.
I checked, and there isn't any dialogue that suggests that Addvar was witness to the gates being opened.
What other witnesses are there?
I agree with you. Addvar is simply law enforcement and I don't think that he witnessed anything. There are any number of people at the execution (store owners, citizens, etc.). Listen to their conversations and statements. It's been a while since I actually listened to them.
Addvar is a fishmonger, you might be thinking of Aldis, the captain of Solitude's guard.
Rogvir never denies doing it. He uses his last words to defend Ulfric. He's not being used as a scapegoat.
And even if it used to be okay to duel the king to the death in ancient Nord society, it is definitely not okay under modern Imperial law. And as Skyrim is officially an Imperial province (and has been for virtually the entirety of the Third Empire), Imperial law is what gets enforced.
Sort of like in real life. You used to be able to duel people to the death for insults or honor or whatever reason you felt was important enough. But even if you use the old duelling ceremony and kill a rival, it's still murder under modern lawn. It used to be okay to cut off the hand of a convicted thief; today, that's considered inhumane and disproportionate.
Dumbest. Argument. Ever.
Roggvir spends his final moments defending Ulfric's actions, you don't think it more likely that Roggvir would have sided with the Stormcloaks if it came to that?
And if you join the Stormcloaks and help Ulfric take over Solitude, the Stormcloak soldiers even say its a shame they could not get there in time to save Roggvir.
Everyone go fluff yourselves Roggvir is innocent I know it you are all just Imperial cucks
What evidence do you have that he did not do it? Everything in the game says he did, while only Stormcloak bias declares his innocence.
To all you folks posting "bad manners", read the posters tag for goodness sake. He's just acting like your average Nord. No brains and no manners.
Okay. That is waaayyy too far. Reported to moderator.
Resorting to name calling and sexual language is bad manners no matter the tag.
When you post a position in an argument, you should have evidence. He said he knew Roggvir was innocent and resulted to going too far with language, proving that there is no evidence to prove that Roggvir was innocent.
In fact, here is direct evidence to prove the opposite, from Greta the sister of Roggvir:
"Roggvir. He opened a gate and they executed him for it. He opened a gate and the wrong man rode out of it. If that man hadn't been Ulfric Stormcloak. If Ulfric hadn't killed High King Torygg... But it was Ulfric. And he did kill the High King, in honorable combat. My brother refused to allow the the [sic] Imperials to take revenge for the deed. So now he's dead."
Roggvir is clearly guilty, but of course he would say that is not a canon response since you have to ask her who her brother is. He is not being a nord, but a jerk who wants people to blindly agree with him because he tells us his position on the argument.
Oh, it's my fault. I riled him up by saying his comment about Ulfric "passing the blame to Roggvir" was the dumbest argument ever. Which was wrong. He outdid himself with his next two posts.