Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Raijin]

Are you joking me, are you? The Stormcloaks does not have more wealth than Maven, and Maven more likely have a close business friends with the majority of nobles in Skyrim . Sure the Dark brotherhood have no loyalty... for as long as someone keeps filling their pockets full of coin.

Maven has absolutely no connection to the Dark Brotherhood. Check her cellar, there's the Black Sacrament and a note suggesting that the DB has no idea of her performing it.

I never said she did but she does financially supports them by paying them to have people killed so actually the DBH does show loyalty to those who throws $$$$ at them.

 

[Raijin]

I'm in somewhat of a good mood and giving my Imperial friends here a humorous gift

Can you imagine the reaction of Ulfric Stormcloak had he heard this observational critique?

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Oh I never said he wasn't a bastard. But Sol Ty from BSG was the same way. I don't think his personality should even be a factor, he's hardened from experience and not just anyone can be an Imperial General.

Sure, I agree, just don't make Ulfric look like the Heart of All Things Evil when the Imperial General does the same, exact, thing.

I wouldn't go so far to say Ulfric is evil. Alot of this discussion is about politics and politics sucks everywhere you go.

No, Ulfric is an expression of change. One of probably several I would presume going on right now throughout the Empire. The Nords have gotten a little freedom from the Empire, are suffering to an extent because of the Empire's wonderful laws and some of them are coming out of the wood work with ideas for change. *However* they're not alone, it sounds like the Elder Council has some ideas as well, it's the Emperor holding everyone up, not the Empire.

I'll be honest, I've had to rebel before. Have had to go all Stormcloak on some folks and it was alot of fun. Event went all Maven Blackbriar on this one fuzzy kitten sup of mine and it was glorious. Watching her having to sit there and listen to me for a change was one of the greatest moments in my life. XD

The thing is though... the catalyst for freedom... was a desire for freedom itself. I was not assisted, funded or encouraged by anyone else really to fight for my freedom. And we know the Thalmor want the Empire destroyed, so maybe in this case freedom is a bad thing.

I know you don't but a lot of Imperials don't join the Stormcloak side just because they think Ulfric is Hitler 2.0

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

The fact they don't care about any of that is just as disturbing as having the Gov ban your rights to Religion.

Had Ulfric went about this differently, that would have been one thing. Maybe talk to his High King about it, call another Moot to discuss it and then if he still hit dead ends ---> Go straight to Civil War.

Instead, he went about it the wrong way.

I think the Nord's, My people, won't really care about any of that, They'll think "Our Hero, Our only fighter Ulfric Stormcloak, is now dead. And, He didn't even get a say. This is wrong, and Tyrannical of the Empire." There are three thing's you don't deny a Nord. His Mead, a Fight, and his right of Speech, And the Empire denied two of those rights, right there to Ulfric Stormcloak. That will be seen as a Travesty to the Nords who agree with Ulfric, and it will prove Ulfric's point all the same.

These aren't Elves, Legate. These are stubborn, Proud, Ferocious Nords who don't take insults to their pride Lightly. A Nord doesn't know when he's beaten, A Nord fights for his Freedom, A Nord never misses a chance to test his worth. And when you anger a Nord, well, you better hope you can back those words up with Steel.

"The heat of battle is the Fire that forms the Strongest blades"-Old Nord Proverb

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

I'm in somewhat of a good mood and giving my Imperial friends here a humorous gift

Can you imagine the reaction of Ulfric Stormcloak had he heard this observational critique?

Any Nord would be offended, I know I was!

 

[LegateFasendil]

Sure, I agree, just don't make Ulfric look like the Heart of All Things Evil when the Imperial General does the same, exact, thing.

I wouldn't go so far to say Ulfric is evil. Alot of this discussion is about politics and politics sucks everywhere you go.

No, Ulfric is an expression of change. One of probably several I would presume going on right now throughout the Empire. The Nords have gotten a little freedom from the Empire, are suffering to an extent because of the Empire's wonderful laws and some of them are coming out of the wood work with ideas for change. *However* they're not alone, it sounds like the Elder Council has some ideas as well, it's the Emperor holding everyone up, not the Empire.

I'll be honest, I've had to rebel before. Have had to go all Stormcloak on some folks and it was alot of fun. Event went all Maven Blackbriar on this one fuzzy kitten sup of mine and it was glorious. Watching her having to sit there and listen to me for a change was one of the greatest moments in my life. XD

The thing is though... the catalyst for freedom... was a desire for freedom itself. I was not assisted, funded or encouraged by anyone else really to fight for my freedom. And we know the Thalmor want the Empire destroyed, so maybe in this case freedom is a bad thing.

I know you don't but a lot of Imperials don't join the Stormcloak side just because they think Ulfric is Hitler 2.0

Yeah he's no Hitler. Although I will admit there are some similarities of concern. However, we'll never truly know for certain how events turned out for the Stormcloaks. Yes, there maybe another whatever but it could be by a totally def design and dev team.

I will also say this though, a possible problem with Ulfric's Gov is lack of Warlords with comparable strength. If Ulfric is to rule, there had better be checks and balances, if not his Gov may break down over time because of competition between the Jarls. Esp if he pushes them too hard and then Jarls start pushing back. Which is likely to happen sooner or later.

The thing is... without a common enemy, <the Empire or the Thalmor> the Jarls can do whatever they want. And if the Thalmor do sign some sort of agreement with Ulfric as Elenwen hints at during Season Unending, his rebellion may lose credibility in the long run. Esp if the Thalmor leave Skyrim alone for too long.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

I wouldn't go so far to say Ulfric is evil. Alot of this discussion is about politics and politics sucks everywhere you go.

No, Ulfric is an expression of change. One of probably several I would presume going on right now throughout the Empire. The Nords have gotten a little freedom from the Empire, are suffering to an extent because of the Empire's wonderful laws and some of them are coming out of the wood work with ideas for change. *However* they're not alone, it sounds like the Elder Council has some ideas as well, it's the Emperor holding everyone up, not the Empire.

I'll be honest, I've had to rebel before. Have had to go all Stormcloak on some folks and it was alot of fun. Event went all Maven Blackbriar on this one fuzzy kitten sup of mine and it was glorious. Watching her having to sit there and listen to me for a change was one of the greatest moments in my life. XD

The thing is though... the catalyst for freedom... was a desire for freedom itself. I was not assisted, funded or encouraged by anyone else really to fight for my freedom. And we know the Thalmor want the Empire destroyed, so maybe in this case freedom is a bad thing.

I know you don't but a lot of Imperials don't join the Stormcloak side just because they think Ulfric is Hitler 2.0

Yeah he's no Hitler. Although I will admit there are some similarities of concern. However, we'll never truly know for certain how events turned out for the Stormcloaks. Yes, there maybe another whatever but it could be by a totally def design and dev team.

I will also say this though, a possible problem with Ulfric's Gov is lack of Warlords with comparable strength. If Ulfric is to rule, there had better be checks and balances, if not his Gov may break down over time because of competition between the Jarls. Esp if he pushes them too hard and then Jarls start pushing back. Which is likely to happen sooner or later.

The thing is... without a common enemy, <the Empire or the Thalmor> the Jarls can do whatever they want. And if the Thalmor do sign some sort of agreement with Ulfric as Elenwen hints at during Season Unending, his rebellion may lose credibility in the long run. Esp if the Thalmor leave Skyrim alone for too long.

Evgir Unslaad, A fear for all Nords. When does Elenwen agree with Ulfric, ever?

 

[LegateFasendil]

The fact they don't care about any of that is just as disturbing as having the Gov ban your rights to Religion.

Had Ulfric went about this differently, that would have been one thing. Maybe talk to his High King about it, call another Moot to discuss it and then if he still hit dead ends ---> Go straight to Civil War.

Instead, he went about it the wrong way.

I think the Nord's, My people, won't really care about any of that, They'll think "Our Hero, Our only fighter Ulfric Stormcloak, is now dead. And, He didn't even get a say. This is wrong, and Tyrannical of the Empire." There are three thing's you don't deny a Nord. His Mead, a Fight, and his right of Speech, And the Empire denied two of those rights, right there to Ulfric Stormcloak. That will be seen as a Travesty to the Nords who agree with Ulfric, and it will prove Ulfric's point all the same.

These aren't Elves, Legate. These are stubborn, Proud, Ferocious Nords who don't take insults to their pride Lightly. A Nord doesn't know when he's beaten, A Nord fights for his Freedom, A Nord never misses a chance to test his worth. And when you anger a Nord, well, you better hope you can back those words up with Steel.

"The heat of battle is the Fire that forms the Strongest blades"-Old Nord Proverb

It's possible you have a point here because obv I'm looking at this thru an errmmm... "different set of eyes".

While I've never truly held the Nords in great respect or contempt, I understand that when you take away enough of a man's freedoms, of a man's life, then that is when a man is most dangerous. Dangerous because there are no delusions or possessions, only heart.

However, my question is... wouldn't the works of Talos be at the heart of a Nord? Wouldn't a true Nord endeavor to save his Empire? When I say save it, that means nearly every option is on the table minus seceding from it.

And what about secession? What is seceding from the Empire isn't the fix for the problem after all?

 

[LegateFasendil]

I know you don't but a lot of Imperials don't join the Stormcloak side just because they think Ulfric is Hitler 2.0

Yeah he's no Hitler. Although I will admit there are some similarities of concern. However, we'll never truly know for certain how events turned out for the Stormcloaks. Yes, there maybe another whatever but it could be by a totally def design and dev team.

I will also say this though, a possible problem with Ulfric's Gov is lack of Warlords with comparable strength. If Ulfric is to rule, there had better be checks and balances, if not his Gov may break down over time because of competition between the Jarls. Esp if he pushes them too hard and then Jarls start pushing back. Which is likely to happen sooner or later.

The thing is... without a common enemy, <the Empire or the Thalmor> the Jarls can do whatever they want. And if the Thalmor do sign some sort of agreement with Ulfric as Elenwen hints at during Season Unending, his rebellion may lose credibility in the long run. Esp if the Thalmor leave Skyrim alone for too long.

Evgir Unslaad, A fear for all Nords. When does Elenwen agree with Ulfric, ever?

Well she didn't agree with him, she was just like, "It's not the Thalmor burning your homes and destroying your lives..." She basically took a shot at Diplomacy, playing the Good Cop so to speak.

 

[LegateFasendil]

@Mikulus


While we're on the subject of Nord nature, here is a Klingon Proverb from Kahless, their greatest spiritual leader:

To die while serving the Empire is the hope of every Klingon.​

​

Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory. And ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat.​

Klingons are a warrior race like the Nords, strongly believe in honor above all else. And Klingons have, spiritually, come to the conclusion that Imperialism is how their society should be Gov'd and how they should govern others. If the Empire is having problems, they don't secede and run, they fix the problem(s).

So, after Skyrim secedes, Ulfric and Galmar plan to resist Imperialism. Do you think it is in the Nord's nature to be Imperialistic or to just sit in their corner of Tamriel? If the Nords are Imperialistic, why can't they instead fight to restore the Empire, as Talos did, instead of simply breaking it and leaving it in the cold, as Talos did not do?

And this is a fund problem with your cause. It's simply too charismatic and too rebellion oriented. By history it's not what Talos wanted, he fought against Nords wouldn't support his Imperialism and you guys worship this same man as God, however, you and he are not the same. Not if you resist Imperialism and fight against the Empire he built. Something's missing somewhere.

Part of the problem could be Ulfric's cause is too charasmatic, the people who follow him are too clingy, they won't see any other way out but Ulfric. I understand you're pissed off at the Empire, however, do you think it's healthy and productive to your cause to have your supporters be too attached to Ulfric?

See you all next week!?!! Well, maybe MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

The fact they don't care about any of that is just as disturbing as having the Gov ban your rights to Religion.

Had Ulfric went about this differently, that would have been one thing. Maybe talk to his High King about it, call another Moot to discuss it and then if he still hit dead ends ---> Go straight to Civil War.

Instead, he went about it the wrong way.

I think the Nord's, My people, won't really care about any of that, They'll think "Our Hero, Our only fighter Ulfric Stormcloak, is now dead. And, He didn't even get a say. This is wrong, and Tyrannical of the Empire." There are three thing's you don't deny a Nord. His Mead, a Fight, and his right of Speech, And the Empire denied two of those rights, right there to Ulfric Stormcloak. That will be seen as a Travesty to the Nords who agree with Ulfric, and it will prove Ulfric's point all the same.

These aren't Elves, Legate. These are stubborn, Proud, Ferocious Nords who don't take insults to their pride Lightly. A Nord doesn't know when he's beaten, A Nord fights for his Freedom, A Nord never misses a chance to test his worth. And when you anger a Nord, well, you better hope you can back those words up with Steel.

"The heat of battle is the Fire that forms the Strongest blades"-Old Nord Proverb

It's possible you have a point here because obv I'm looking at this thru an errmmm... "different set of eyes".

While I've never truly held the Nords in great respect or contempt, I understand that when you take away enough of a man's freedoms, of a man's life, then that is when a man is most dangerous. Dangerous because there are no delusions or possessions, only heart.

However, my question is... wouldn't the works of Talos be at the heart of a Nord? Wouldn't a true Nord endeavor to save his Empire? When I say save it, that means nearly every option is on the table minus seceding from it.

And what about secession? What is seceding from the Empire isn't the fix for the problem after all?

Most Nord's felt as though Talos was forgotten, betrayed by the Empire and the Imperials. As we can see they're mostly right. Most of the Imperials I have met in my travels have been quoted in saying "By the Eight" or even outright saying they don't believe in Talos, I've even caught Nords saying this, although these Nords only reside in the largely unfortunately Imperialized Solitude. but in the end I feel as though it can only be described by Nords like this:
Ysmirja Vil Mega Einga Hreppar Vølsung
It means: Ysmir's(Talos')Will can only be obtained through Warfare.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

@Mikulus


While we're on the subject of Nord nature, here is a Klingon Proverb from Kahless, their greatest spiritual leader:

To die while serving the Empire is the hope of every Klingon.​

​

Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory. And ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat.​

Klingons are a warrior race like the Nords, strongly believe in honor above all else. And Klingons have, spiritually, come to the conclusion that Imperialism is how their society should be Gov'd and how they should govern others. If the Empire is having problems, they don't secede and run, they fix the problem(s).

So, after Skyrim secedes, Ulfric and Galmar plan to resist Imperialism. Do you think it is in the Nord's nature to be Imperialistic or to just sit in their corner of Tamriel? If the Nords are Imperialistic, why can't they instead fight to restore the Empire, as Talos did, instead of simply breaking it and leaving it in the cold, as Talos did not do?

And this is a fund problem with your cause. It's simply too charismatic and too rebellion oriented. By history it's not what Talos wanted, he fought against Nords wouldn't support his Imperialism and you guys worship this same man as God, however, you and he are not the same. Not if you resist Imperialism and fight against the Empire he built. Something's missing somewhere.

Part of the problem could be Ulfric's cause is too charasmatic, the people who follow him are too clingy, they won't see any other way out but Ulfric. I understand you're pissed off at the Empire, however, do you think it's healthy and productive to your cause to have your supporters be too attached to Ulfric?

See you all next week!?!! Well, maybe MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Tiber Septim the Man wanted to unite Tamriel into an Empire, The only reason we Nords decided to join him was because we knew him as, Hjaalti Early Beard, Talos Stormcrown, and most importantly as a Dragonborn. The Man was a Nord and suited Nord interest's He sought to see an Empire for all, but one that would have its soul rest in the Land of the Nords Skyrim. When the Empire outlawed his worship, They killed the man and all of that afore mentioned Glory.
I do not think our supporters should be too attached to Ulfric, after all we make sure they're really fighting for the cause, I think the get attached to Ulfric for who he is, A Warrior, A Revolutionary, A Nord. One who cares for his men, One who cares for All of Skyrim. One who wan'ts to lead her away from the darkness so consuming her now:
Ulfric Stormcloak All Haga, Jarla Vindhelm o Rikla Skyrim!

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Yeah he's no Hitler. Although I will admit there are some similarities of concern. However, we'll never truly know for certain how events turned out for the Stormcloaks. Yes, there maybe another whatever but it could be by a totally def design and dev team.

I will also say this though, a possible problem with Ulfric's Gov is lack of Warlords with comparable strength. If Ulfric is to rule, there had better be checks and balances, if not his Gov may break down over time because of competition between the Jarls. Esp if he pushes them too hard and then Jarls start pushing back. Which is likely to happen sooner or later.

The thing is... without a common enemy, <the Empire or the Thalmor> the Jarls can do whatever they want. And if the Thalmor do sign some sort of agreement with Ulfric as Elenwen hints at during Season Unending, his rebellion may lose credibility in the long run. Esp if the Thalmor leave Skyrim alone for too long.

Evgir Unslaad, A fear for all Nords. When does Elenwen agree with Ulfric, ever?

Well she didn't agree with him, she was just like, "It's not the Thalmor burning your homes and destroying your lives..." She basically took a shot at Diplomacy, playing the Good Cop so to speak.

mmm, I see. She was trying to wiggle out of it.

 

[Raijin]

I know you don't but a lot of Imperials don't join the Stormcloak side just because they think Ulfric is Hitler 2.0

Actually a lot of Imperials don't join the Stormcloaks side because they think Ulfric is a racist, and in today's society being a racist is almost as bad as being a murderer.

I find racism in Skyrim to be just hilarious. I find it adorable how my Lydia taunts her Bosmer opponent by screaming out "Should have stayed in your precious forests, Elf!" just as she fiercely launches an attack towards her opponent.

I also find it hilarious how Dunmers calls me a N'wah... I had to find out what that meant because I thought they were calling me the N word.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

While I've never truly held the Nords in great respect or contempt, I understand that when you take away enough of a man's freedoms, of a man's life, then that is when a man is most dangerous. Dangerous because there are no delusions or possessions, only heart.

Right! Now, take this little examination you've made and multiply it by five, and you have what is known as "Nordic Fury". A ferocity so Blindingly strong and great that even the Strongest Empire would crumble before it, It's happened before, it will most certainly happen again.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Actually a lot of Imperials don't join the Stormcloaks side because they think Ulfric is a racist, and in today's society being a racist is almost as bad as being a murderer.

I find racsim in Skyrim to be just halerious. I find it adorable how my Lydia taunts her Bosmer opponent by screaming out "Should have stayed in your precious forests, Elf!" just as she fiercely launches an attack torwards her opponent.

Exactly! It really isn't something to be taken too seriously, Especially amongst Nords.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

I also find it hilarious how Dunmers calls me a N'wah... I had to find out what that meant because I thought they were calling me the N word.

Lol, yeah I always jokingly take offense whenever I'm on Solstheim and a Dunmer calls me an Outlander.

 

[Jeremius]

I know you don't but a lot of Imperials don't join the Stormcloak side just because they think Ulfric is Hitler 2.0

Actually a lot of Imperials don't join the Stormcloaks side because they think Ulfric is a racist, and in today's society being a racist is almost as bad as being a murderer.

I find racism in Skyrim to be just hilarious. I find it adorable how my Lydia taunts her Bosmer opponent by screaming out "Should have stayed in your precious forests, Elf!" just as she fiercely launches an attack towards her opponent.

I also find it hilarious how Dunmers calls me a N'wah... I had to find out what that meant because I thought they were calling me the N word.

I do not care about racism. I do not like Ulfric because of pure logistics. IF the empire were to lose the Civil War, it makes it extremely hard for them to win the next great war, unless they hand the entire empire over to the nords, just to get the metal for weapons and armor.

 

[Raijin]

I also find it hilarious how Dunmers calls me a N'wah... I had to find out what that meant because I thought they were calling me the N word.

Lol, yeah I always jokingly take offense whenever I'm on Solstheim and a Dunmer calls me an Outlander.

Racism doesn't just happen in Skyrim.... It happens everywhere and that is what makes this game so alive.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

I also find it hilarious how Dunmers calls me a N'wah... I had to find out what that meant because I thought they were calling me the N word.

Lol, yeah I always jokingly take offense whenever I'm on Solstheim and a Dunmer calls me an Outlander.

Racism doesn't just happen in Skyrim.... It happens everywhere and that is what makes this game so alive.

Exactly!