Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Raijin]

I'm really not too sure Hard Work alone is going to fix things for the Dunmer or anyone else. After all, laboring for almost nothing for the Shatter-Shields has done the Argonians no favors - whom, as we may recall, were actually relegated to living outside the city walls. On Ulfric's watch, no less.

Seems like the hard work is helping this Dunmer out, and don't forget that the Guards are recommending people to go the pawn shop to sell their unnecessary stuffs. That's soliciting business for the Dunmers.

Windhelm isn't all that bad to the Dunmers after all.

In terms of endearing them to insular and otherwise unfriendly Nords, I don't think it's helping. He may be making more money than before, but he's not enjoying the same freedom of habitation as non-Dunmers and non-Argonians.

Just because Ulfric isn't sending midnight posses to systematically destroy the Dunmer residents does not negate the fact that they are being discriminated against based on their race.

Alva: "The people here work so hard, and they never allow themselves a moment of fun. It's such a pity. It won't last forever though."

Alva: "These people are like cattle. All they do is work, sleep and eat."

Alva: "Gathering plants, picking mushrooms, brewing potions. It all gets so dreary after a while. This town needs something exciting to happen."

If they want total freedom they should go and become a vampire and then go find some Nords to turn into a thrall... that way they'll have total freedom

 

[Docta Corvina]

LOL, that would be pretty funny. I'd like to see that!

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

There is Dunmer working for Cruel-Seas and Shatter-Shields... So that kind of backfired on you?

I know... but The others don't and they certainly could. But why don't they ALL MIGHTY DRUNKEN MAGE? To me Those four Dunmer seem to be trying to integrate while the rest hold them back. So no it didn't backfire. It actually proved my point. Thank you.

I'm really not too sure Hard Work alone is going to fix things for the Dunmer or anyone else. After all, laboring for almost nothing for the Shatter-Shields has done the Argonians no favors - whom, as we may recall, were actually relegated to living outside the city walls. On Ulfric's watch, no less.

Those boots aren't worth the septims I do pay them. I'm not giving them coin I could give to good, Nord workers.

Hard work may not be the only thing they'll have to do but it'll be a start.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

I know... but The others don't and they certainly could. But why don't they ALL MIGHTY DRUNKEN MAGE? To me Those four Dunmer seem to be trying to integrate while the rest hold them back. So no it didn't backfire. It actually proved my point. Thank you.

I'm really not too sure Hard Work alone is going to fix things for the Dunmer or anyone else. After all, laboring for almost nothing for the Shatter-Shields has done the Argonians no favors - whom, as we may recall, were actually relegated to living outside the city walls. On Ulfric's watch, no less.

Those boots aren't worth the septims I do pay them. I'm not giving them coin I could give to good, Nord workers.

Seems like the hard work is helping this Dunmer out, and don't forget that the Guards are recommending people to go the pawn shop to sell their unnecessary stuffs. That's soliciting business for the Dunmers.

Windhelm isn't all that bad to the Dunmers after all.

They really don't have it as bad as they make people think.

 

[Raijin]

LOL, that would be pretty funny. I'd like to see that!

Yeah me too

 

[Docta Corvina]

I know... but The others don't and they certainly could. But why don't they ALL MIGHTY DRUNKEN MAGE? To me Those four Dunmer seem to be trying to integrate while the rest hold them back. So no it didn't backfire. It actually proved my point. Thank you.

I'm really not too sure Hard Work alone is going to fix things for the Dunmer or anyone else. After all, laboring for almost nothing for the Shatter-Shields has done the Argonians no favors - whom, as we may recall, were actually relegated to living outside the city walls. On Ulfric's watch, no less.

Those boots aren't worth the septims I do pay them. I'm not giving them coin I could give to good, Nord workers.

Hard work may not be the only thing they'll have to do but it'll be a start.

My point is that the Argonians, for example, already do work their tails off and it hasn't done them any good in the eyes of those who already despise them. As if being loathed by some of the local population by dint of being Argonian isn't bad enough, they're excluded from town proper. That's no way for a city to operate (if it truly wants to thrive), and that's the gist of people's arguments about the Dunmer's treatment in Windhelm. No, they're not being violently persecuted. But they are being treated differently because of their race.

That's why I find it so dubious when people say that the Dunmer should just kiss Stormcloak backside and hope that they'll finally be (re)given the same freedom everyone else (except Argonians) has.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

I'm really not too sure Hard Work alone is going to fix things for the Dunmer or anyone else. After all, laboring for almost nothing for the Shatter-Shields has done the Argonians no favors - whom, as we may recall, were actually relegated to living outside the city walls. On Ulfric's watch, no less.

Hard work may not be the only thing they'll have to do but it'll be a start.

My point is that the Argonians, for example, already do work their tails off and it hasn't done them any good in the eyes of those who already despise them. As if being loathed by some of the local population by dint of being Argonian isn't bad enough, they're excluded from town proper. That's no way for a city to operate (if it truly wants to thrive), and that's the gist of people's arguments about the Dunmer's treatment in Windhelm. No, they're not being violently persecuted. But they are being treated differently because of their race.

That's why I find it so dubious when people say that the Dunmer should just kiss Stormcloak backside and hope that they'll finally be (re)given the same freedom everyone else (except Argonians) has.

They don't have to kiss their ass but they should certainly learn how to integrate into society like Belyn Hlaalu and Suvaris Atheron, Yeah she gripes but at least she gets things done. These other Dunmer don't want to work for the rulers of the town because they're Nords nothing more Nothing less
Ambarys: "What's new with the Shatter Shields, Suvaris? Have they given you one of those helmets with the horns on them yet?"
Suvaris: "What do you want from me? I work for them ok? We're not friends. They pay me, and I get the job done. That's it."
Ambarys: "Touchy. Maybe some Dunmer lives in you yet."
Suvaris: "Either pour another drink or keep moving, Ambarys."
Ambarys will also ask Suvaris if she finds it belittling working for a Nord family:
Ambarys: "Don't you ever find it demeaning, working for that Nord family?"
Suvaris: "Look, Ambarys, I just came here for a drink. I don't need any trouble."
Ambarys: "Fine, then. I guess some Dunmer are content to be their pets."
Suvaris: "Here's what's going to happen. I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that, and you're going to leave me alone. Deal?"

 

[Raijin]

My point is that the Argonians, for example, already do work their tails off and it hasn't done them any good in the eyes of those who already despise them. As if being loathed by some of the local population by dint of being Argonian isn't bad enough, they're excluded from town proper. That's no way for a city to operate (if it truly wants to thrive), and that's the gist of people's arguments about the Dunmer's treatment in Windhelm. No, they're not being violently persecuted. But they are being treated differently because of their race.

That's why I find it so dubious when people say that the Dunmer should just kiss Stormcloak backside and hope that they'll finally be (re)given the same freedom everyone else (except Argonians) has.

Nobody is suggesting that the Dunmers should kiss the Stormcloaks backside. The Dunmers should stop being so selfish for once and starrt thinking about what is truly going on in Skyrim. Ulfric may not have enough resources to satisfy the Dunmers because of the civil war that hes directly involve with.

Lets put it this way. When you go to the hospital and enter the emergency room to be checked out by the doctor. The nurses will give you a short checkup and calculate the severity of your injuries, or whatever your suffering, and give you an estimate time to be seen by a doctor. Those who with far severe injuries goes a head of you while you still wait for your turn to be seen by a doctor.

Skyrim is a patient who just came in to the emergency department with a life and death injuries while the Dunmers are patients who are waiting for their turn to treat their lacerations.

And the Dunmers aren't slaves to the Nords. They have their freedom. They can worship Azura, Boethiah or whatever daedra gods they want without being persecuted for what they believe in. They're not forced to stay inside Windhelm. They have the freedom to walk out and go else where if they feel that their not welcome in the city.

 

[Jeremius]

My point is that the Argonians, for example, already do work their tails off and it hasn't done them any good in the eyes of those who already despise them. As if being loathed by some of the local population by dint of being Argonian isn't bad enough, they're excluded from town proper. That's no way for a city to operate (if it truly wants to thrive), and that's the gist of people's arguments about the Dunmer's treatment in Windhelm. No, they're not being violently persecuted. But they are being treated differently because of their race.

That's why I find it so dubious when people say that the Dunmer should just kiss Stormcloak backside and hope that they'll finally be (re)given the same freedom everyone else (except Argonians) has.

Nobody is suggesting that the Dunmers should kiss the Stormcloaks backside. The Dunmers should stop being so selfish for once and starrt thinking about what is truly going on in Skyrim. Ulfric may not have enough resources to satisfy the Dunmers because of the civil war that hes directly involve with.

Lets put it this way. When you go to the hospital and enter the emergency room to be checked out by the doctor. The nurses will give you a short checkup and calculate the severity of your injuries, or whatever your suffering, and give you an estimate time to be seen by a doctor. Those who with far severe injuries goes a head of you while you still wait for your turn to be seen by a doctor.

Skyrim is a patient who just came in to the emergency department with a life and death injuries while the Dunmers are patients who are waiting for their turn to treat their lacerations.

And the Dunmers aren't slaves to the Nords. They have their freedom. They can worship Azura, Boethiah or whatever daedra gods they want without being persecuted for what they believe in. They're not forced to stay inside Windhelm. They have the freedom to walk out and go else where if they feel that their not welcome in the city.

And no one is suggesting that Ulfric deal with their needs right now either, as you stormcloaks like to blindly believe. The Empire deals with them later because they do not have the resources either, namely coin. The problem with Ulfric and the Dunmer is that Ulfric refuses to even tell them that he has heard their complaints, which make it look like Ulfric is racist as he is dealing with a primarily Nordic need.

 

[Ivory]

Skyrim is a patient who just came in to the emergency department with a life and death injuries while the Dunmers are patients who are waiting for their turn to treat their lacerations.

By that Logic, Ulfric is the injury that caused the mess to begin with. Skyrim was fine until Ulfric started the civil war. If anything, the only ones who didn't suffer as much as the other provinces are probably Black Marsh and Skyrim and now thanks to the civil war, it's in disarray and unsafe to travel.

Balgruuf cannot protect people on the roads because he needs his guards to protect his city from Stormcloak attack. Hell, Dawnstar's Jarl REFUSES to let a mage go home to High Rock because she doesn't agree with him about the war. He's revoking her right as a human being and a Breton to allow a leave of absence.

So tell me again, how do the Dunmer have the ability to leave with such poor pay and living conditions?

And I'm sorry but if you lived where the Argonians do, with no privacy, no safety from the weather and with a fraction of the pay a Nord would make, you wouldn't say the Argonians have it good.

And the Dunmers aren't slaves to the Nords. They have their freedom. They can worship Azura, Boethiah or whatever daedra gods they want without being persecuted for what they believe in. They're not forced to stay inside Windhelm. They have the freedom to walk out and go else where if they feel that their not welcome in the city.

We live in a world that has far better resources than Skyrim and yet it's not at ALL easy to just pick up and move away. To think it's easy for them is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[DrunkenMage]

There is a Dunmer working for the Shatter Shields and shes scolded by The Other Dunmer for doing so:

She also gets crap from Nords, which your point about them wanting respect by working for Nords doesn't mean anything. They still get discriminated against by the locals.

I don't know. Those two Stormcloaks didn't do anything that prompts me to want to kill them. In fact it doesn't make any sense to kill them considering the fact that you're at a weak level, and need all the help that you can get to escape from the keep.

The point is, you can still kill them without any problems. Just like you can kill the Imperials with Hadvar.

Apparently they're working hard to achieve this goal.

Not that hard, they don't have the means to take over Skyrim from an embassy. You mention the Stormcloaks are fighting the Thalmor, well the Legion is also fighting the Forsworn so neither side has it easy.

Skyrim is in shambles right now. The Thalmor are here because the Empire allowed them to be here. Talos worshipers are being slaughtered and being harshly imprisoned that carries out abuse. Ulfric is desperately trying to drive out any imperial influence from Skyrim and making the country independent. priorities are being set. The highest priorities get far more attention then the lowest priorities. You expect Ulfric to give full attention to a few unhappy Dunmers living in his city? Do you expect him to give them resources therefor shorten up the Armys supplies because of few Dunmers who refuse to contribute?

Few unhappy Dunmer? Raijin lore wise they populate quarter of the city. So there would be hundreds of them. I expect Ulfric to have the sense to at least address their issues, they're not asking for resources this instant. When Free-Winter becomes Jarl, they're happy their concerns have been listened to.

Having unrest in an entire quarter of your city isn't a good thing and it isn't a small issue, it could lead to major problems. The Reachmen uprising in Markarth obviously hasn't taught the Nords anything.

Yeah the Argonians truly have it rough down there. Keep telling me more about how rough they have it while the beggars (One of them is a former Stormcloak soldier) are forced to stay outside, and beg for coin. I don't know how they can die living in the Argonian Assemblage. They have heat and proper equipment to cook their food, and have beds to sleep on.

I wasn't talking about the Argonians. Nords have a resistance to cold anyway, I'm glad you mentioned the beggars... Shame that the Dunmer are considered a burden by Stormcloak supporters, but not the Nords who beg and do nothing.

But yes, the Argonians also do have it rough. You're telling me they should be grateful about being racially segregated, because they have beds and cooking pots? That Stormcloak beggar can go wherever he likes in the city, the Argonians can't.

Missing travelers and odd lights... mmmm.. that's enough evidence that is needed to start up an investigation, especially since you're dealing with something supernatural in the making.

He didn't investigate second hand report of lights and the "Travelers missing" ooh spooky. You ever notice that people go missing in the best stories, Nords have hundreds of them. People go missing all across Skyrim, they often blame the Snow Elves. Coming to snatch up Nord children.

You're using this to try excuse Windhelm's Steward when he had dead bodies right in front of his own eyes. Falk had nothing to suggest it was something evil, which is why he assumed bandits or animals.

As for Sybille.

Shes by far more worried about her experiments rather than what truly goes on in Solitude.An investigation in the cave takes resources, and she rather have that go to her experiments and studies.

A Mage that is more concerned about their own experiments... My god... That is unheard of... The audacity... Oh wait, just about every Mage is like that.

You have no evidence she is intentionally trying to stop any investigation. Is being a Mage a crime now? Pff, go join your Stormcloaks in Winterhold... With their pitchforks and torches.

Sorry but her statement is irrelvent considering the fact that she is a vampire, and most likley are part of the necromancers plan to bring back queen Potema.

I swear, you Stormcloaks... Show me your source that she is part of their plan, where is the dialogue, or notes of communication between her and the Necromancers.

You just have "She's a Vampire!! It must be her then!" What is this Monty Python 'She's a Witch!' scene?

They're also guest of Skyrims lands. If you want to be treated equally you need to make yourself known, and to contribute and nobody is treating like second class citizens.

Guests? They've been there for 185 years or more, they all work hard. Yet still are discriminated against.

"All the jobs" aren't taken. Its a matter of Pride. If they wanted to earn the respect of the Nords they could work for the Cruel-Seas or the Shatter-Shields, That'd certainly give them a bit more leverage, but no, they refuse.

There is Dunmer working for Cruel-Seas and Shatter-Shields... So that kind of backfired on you?

I know... but The others don't and they certainly could. But why don't they ALL MIGHTY DRUNKEN MAGE? To me Those four Dunmer seem to be trying to integrate while the rest hold them back. So no it didn't backfire. It actually proved my point. Thank you.

Why don't they all? Are the Shatter-Shields going to employ quarter of the city? Lore wise there are hundreds of Dunmer, they populate quarter of Windhelm as I mentioned above.

It is clear why they're not all working for them, not enough work for all of that. It is why you have a Dunmer working a farm saying it was all he could get.

I'm 'All Mighty' now? Thanks, I guess.

It did backfire, because even working for the Nord families the Dunmer aren't getting respect from the locals. It proved your point on what? That no matter what the Dunmer do, they're going to still get plops for being Dunmer?

 

[Vatonage]

Few unhappy Dunmer? Raijin lore wise they populate quarter of the city. So there would be hundreds of them.

Proooooooof that there are hundreds, pleeaase???

 

[DrunkenMage]

They have the freedom to walk out and go else where if they feel that their not welcome in the city.

Life doesn't work like that. Do you have the freedom to simply walk out? Leave your job, your home behind. Could you do it, how long would you last?

Freedom to simply leave is an illusion Raijin, that is the situation. Anyone who works for a living can agree to that.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Few unhappy Dunmer? Raijin lore wise they populate quarter of the city. So there would be hundreds of them.

Proooooooof that there are hundreds, pleeaase???

A quarter of Windhelm, that is one fourth of the city. Do you really believe Windhelm has a population of twenty lore wise? Major cities in Tamriel have thousands of people.

This is common knowledge, you can read about all of this on UESP forums or Bethesda forums. Games are scaled down from what they are in lore.

 

[Vatonage]

A quarter of Windhelm, that is one fourth of the city. Do you really believe Windhelm has a population of twenty lore wise? Major cities in Tamriel have thousands of people.

This is common knowledge, you can read about all of this on UESP forums or Bethesda forums. Games are scaled down from what they are in lore.

1 quarter out of 4, Ulfric still has those other thousands to worry about.

 

[DrunkenMage]

1 quarter out of 4, Ulfric still has those other thousands to worry about.

Ignoring quarter of the city isn't smart. It isn't such a hard thing to just listen to what the Dunmer have to say, going "Blasted Dark Elves" when they're mentioned isn't going to solve his issues.

The Reachmen uprising should be an example of what happens when you ignore problems, and the uprising against Jarl Hosgunn Crossed-Daggers. That led to Riften being razed to the ground by people who felt oppressed.

 

[Jeremius]

A quarter of Windhelm, that is one fourth of the city. Do you really believe Windhelm has a population of twenty lore wise? Major cities in Tamriel have thousands of people.

This is common knowledge, you can read about all of this on UESP forums or Bethesda forums. Games are scaled down from what they are in lore.

1 quarter out of 4, Ulfric still has those other thousands to worry about.

And those thousands are not actually complaining, except for those who just want the war to stop. Not many actually care about the Talos problem all that much. Many Nords who join the stormcloaks join only out of petty revenge against the Thalmor for being in Skyrim kidnapping people which was caused by Ulfric and the stormcloaks in the first place.

 

[Vatonage]

Ignoring quarter of the city isn't smart. It isn't such a hard thing to just listen to what the Dunmer have to say, going "Blasted Dark Elves" when they're mentioned isn't going to solve his issues.

The Reachmen uprising should be an example of what happens when you ignore problems, and the uprising against Jarl Hosgunn Crossed-Daggers. That led to Riften being razed to the ground by people who felt oppressed.

OK..... What else is there to say about it?

 

[DrunkenMage]

OK..... What else is there to say about it?

Obviously plenty. Until it sinks into Stormcloak supporters of this thread that the Dunmer aren't asking for the best things, or that they're just a burden to the city doing nothing.

Jorleif: "Sir, there continues to be unrest in the Gray Quarter."
Ulfric: "Blasted dark elves. I don't suppose you could tell them that I presently have larger concerns? Such as all of Skyrim?"

I do like how Ulfric words that, his larger concerns with all of Skyrim. I'm sure all the Imperial supporters here are able to notice the small detail of that excuse working even when Ulfric's High King. All of Skyrim isn't suddenly going to vanish when he claims the throne.

 

[Vatonage]

Obviously plenty. Until it sinks into Stormcloak supporters of this thread that the Dunmer aren't asking for the best things, or that they're just a burden to the city doing nothing.

Jorleif: "Sir, there continues to be unrest in the Gray Quarter."
Ulfric: "Blasted dark elves. I don't suppose you could tell them that I presently have larger concerns? Such as all of Skyrim?"

I do like how Ulfric words that, his larger concerns with all of Skyrim. I'm sure all the Imperial supporters here are able to notice the small detail of that excuse working even when Ulfric's High King. All of Skyrim isn't suddenly going to vanish when he claims the throne.

Well, hopefully you Imperials conjure up a new argument, I grow tired of the current one.