Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
I feel like attacking some more Stormcloaks, but these forums lack many. So I'll attack Bethsoft Stormcloak arguments. Which they tend to use, from a document they call 'Handy Debate Links'.

Bear of Markarth is propaganda! - Which they go on to use Igmund's dialogue and the fact a man's daughter was executed couple years after the Markarth Incident, and a Silver-Blood journal. Also I've debated with one here before.

Okay so lets take a look, Igmund's dialogue. They promised Nord Militia free worship. This disproves the Empire did, well no, Igmund's family was part of the Empire. Also when the Legions returned Ulfric would of had to make sure they agreed to it also.

Man's daughter was executed by Igmund, thus Ulfric is suddenly innocent! Well an execution years after an incident is hardly evidence to discount Ulfric's involvement. It would actually go around the time Igmund's father was killed by the Forsworn (Which was after the Markarth Incident) Not surprised Igmund would find a reason to execute someone who had spoken with the Forsworn ruler.

Silver-Blood's journal says he stopped the Jarl from executing the Forsworn King. Therefor Ulfric was not involved! Well as the Jarl of the city, executing the leader of the uprising would of been his given right.

Another reason, which was brought to me when a member of Bethsoft came into this thread. "Ulfric wouldn't do that because it would harm recruitment!" Well Ulfric wasn't recruiting, he wasn't even preparing rebellion back then. His motives in 4E 201, aren't the same in 4E 176.

Why is the Bear of Markarth not propaganda? Well allow me to explain, there is a passage in the book. "You are with us, or you are against Skyrim" was the message on Ulfric's lips Now that sounds very familiar, where have we heard something like that before... The Palace of the Kings during the Civil War. We also hear it phrased differently by every Stormcloak Officer about 'How does one join the Stormcloaks?'

Now that is interesting. For mere propaganda, how on earth is there that similarity? Unless, there is truth in the Bear of Markarth. Bethesda would not have put that in there for no reason, that subtle hint. The fact many Stormcloaks compare Bear of Markarth to 'Nords Arise' is laughable. The only Imperial propaganda in-game is to do with the White-Gold Concordat supporting the banning of Talos.

Empire's ethnocentrism - Tullius saying without us, the provinces would fall into lawlessness and barbarism. Where he mentions Ulfric's rebellion as an example.

Well, considering the Stormcloak Officers have Bear Heads for hats? I'm not surprised. Without the Legions hand, we have what, deer head wearing people to the west, bear head wearing people to the east. I would call that fairly savage and barbarism.

Dengeir is a good Jarl! - Oh, well that makes it better. One good Jarl and you're left with what? The Jarl in Riften who has no power and talks about fleeing the city, the Jarl in Dawnstar who what, would throw every last man, women and child into the blades of trained Legionnaires before losing. Who also won't prepare for Dragon attack, when his city is one of the most exposed in the province. Smart. You have the Jarl in Winterhold, not caring about attempting to rebuild his city, and he blames the Mages for the cold. Then what, Silver-Blood Jarl? Because enslaving the natives of the Reach is a good thing.

Ulfric spies in Solitude - He's got spies? Well good for him, the Empire has hundreds if not thousands.

Imperials are racist too! - Shows links of NPC's from Oblivion... two hundred years ago. Well nobody said racism is just a Stormcloak thing, also the Stormcloaks are the Government and Military. So random Civilians in Cyrodiil and one Countess who are racist somehow makes it alright? No. But you never saw racial segregation.

Elisif enjoys Thalmor parties! - Well free food, free drink, who wouldn't? Elisif would of been instructed to act happy at a party, especially when you got Elenwen hovering around you. Like the Grim Reaper, what do they expect, her to complain and moan? She's the future High Queen, diplomatic incidents are best avoided.

Ulfric's Argonian segregation possible reasons - Links going to dialogue from Rolf Stone-Fist, well he's the source of trustworthy information about racial equality. Another link going to Scouts-Many-Marshes who mentions he wishes everyone would get along.

Funny how they don't link the dialogue of Scouts-Many-Marshes welcoming the Empire and saying it was the Stormcloaks who caused the racial prejudice. Also the lack of dialogue from Free-Winter, saying the Argonians have to remain outside for their own safety against Nords who shared Ulfric's ideology.

Some more things in their Anti-Empire section. Two about the East Empire Trading Company, well the EETC is a merchant guild. Not an Empire controlled organization. So it'd be like saying the Stormcloaks are bad because the Nord shipping company in Windhelm is employing pirates to attack EETC ships.

Some more arguments of theirs I have seen - Empire is corrupt, not sending Tullius more soldiers. (I used this one, seeing how many here knew the counter.) If the Aldmeri Dominion won over Cyrodiil they can't invade Skyrim because Pale Pass is closed.

No. Pale Pass is currently being cleared by the Empire and a new Imperial force is assembling in Cyrodiil to reinforce Tullius, which threatens Stormcloak gains. So the Empire are in fact reinforcing General Tullius. Pale Pass actually gets cleared in Stormcloak victory, so their reason why the Aldmeri can't get to Skyrim if the Empire collapses is false.

The Empire Strikes Back ;)
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Hello Everyone.

Well there's no easy way to say this so I'll say it like it is. There is a Hurricane heading my way and I can no longer support this. So this will probably be my last post on here for the foreseeable.

Seeing how I've been here for a while, I feel that I owe it to everyone to close any loose ends before I leave... for war. lol It's kind of interesting because what I'm going thru feels very similar to the Empire with it's borders loaded up, Civil War just over and hell is inbound... you just don't know when. I've enjoyed debating with every one of you and although I respect the Thalmor, ultimately Empire is my choice for several reasons.

Simply put, I have no desire to be enslaved or live under the radicalism of the Nords or Thalmor. I don't care if the Empire is on death's door, it's not dead yet and furthermore, at least I can say that by supporting the Empire I DID NOT give the Thalmor or the Fascist Nords what they really wanted. While the Empire is forced to take away one thing, the Stormcloaks take away another willingly.

That means something to me. Also, I'm getting really, really tired of fighting against an Empire whom I know to be in the right, even though I am NOT a follow of Titus Mede II. I'm a Post-Mede Imperial. Esp after I sacrificed all that time, effort and my very membership at Fascist Nexus to fight for the Empire's side to be heard - That's all. Was banned by "Stormcloak" Admins. Although at least the Empire was vindicated in the end. That said, I want to take this time now to express my admiration to Skyrim Forums and it's "Officers/Admins" for the Freedom of Discussion and Debating Excellence that I have not seen anywhere else on the internet.

Someone should not be banned for having a point of view that not only runs contrary to yours, but provides irrefutable evidence that you are wrong. And children don't like to be corrected or otherwise told 'No'. And that's exactly the kind of Gov the Stormcloaks would setup... you disagree with the Chairman and bad things will happen. Least Titus Mede II will listen and so will Tullius and neither will prejudge you because, "I don't think you belong here friend." So tired hearing that phrase amongst the Stormcloaks, esp when I'm in the middle of Whiterun. Tell me I need to move or leave when they're not even in their own damn territory. Shhh. You get out of my way tough guy... Just look at the Jarl of Winterhold taking a personal interest in the Inn Keep's business affairs. If the Inn Keeper wants to rent a room to an Elf, what business is that of the Jarl?

Anyways, although I've defended the Thalmor on this forum, I'm an Imperial at heart. Like Dradin, I admire the Bretons. Probably admire High Elves, Orcs, Dark Elves and Bretons equally. Just because. It is my hope that you guys have come to understand the Thalmor better and can also see their side of things, where they're coming from. Which I find interesting.

Now. About me being an Imperial... I will not follow anyone who will surrender my freedoms for either his sake or for the sake of my neighbor. Why because they're mine that's why and there's some lines that you just don't cross. However, the Empire in general should not be punished for Mede's actions so I'm willing to try to save it for old time's sake... Once TMII is no longer leading it. Which I do agree with the Elder Council... he needs to resign. flffers got to go... he's got to go... he's got to goooooooo. TMII saved the Empire for a later date, threw himself and his Admin/Family on the Grenade for the Empire and that sacrifice should never be forgotten or taken lightly. However, in signing the WGC *one way or another* he signed his own Death Warrant and can no longer be taken seriously as Emperor. And finally, I don't think the Empire should give up and die just because they trampled on my rights ~ However, it would be my hope that thru time, patience and alot of hard work things will change. And I think they will. The Elder Council and Gen Tullius both express a need for change. And I follow them.

Often you will hear on here that there are not enough Stormcloak supporters. Good. Because like DrunkenMage, I've had to deal with the hard core ones. Picture it ~ you're sitting behind your keyboard watching some social criminal fight to justify why it's ok for a Freedom Fighter to racially segregate people and enslave entire populations. Why it's ok to Fight for Freedom, yet again, WILLFULLY take away same Exact Freedom(s) THE SAME EXACT FREEDOMS from some bystander who has NOTHING whatsoever to do with this. Like the Reachman. Sure, they've always had a crazy bone or two about 'em but Ulfric turned them into monsters. Somehow, when the Jarl said liberate the city I don't think that's what he had in mind because Ulfric REFUSED to turn over the city (violating his agreement with the Jarl) until the Empire was forced to go back on it's word to the Thalmor. Ulfric only agreed to help the Jarl of Markarth because he needed a good reason to kick off his PR Campaign.

Anyways, so this is it. Take care everyone, have fun and LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!! :p


"Upon my honor I do swear undying loyalty to the Emperor, or Empress, and unwavering obedience to the officers of this great Empire. May those above judge me, and those below take me, if I fail in my duty. Long live the Emperor! Long live the Empire!"​
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Oh yeah one more thing:

Long Live "Patrick Stewart", best damn Emperor Tamriel ever had... who apparently was part Mud-Crab.

Thank You! :p


images
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
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DrunkenMage said:
The Empire Strikes Back ;)
Why don't you finally sit down and write a tutorial for TES discussions? Especially when it comes down to Stormcloak stuff.
Youtube's Pro-Stormcloak-Videos are also unclaimed territory, woof woof.


My "parting" suggestion, as a fellow Imperial, let's all take Anouck's advice and rest. Like Legate Rikke said, "Let everyone get back to their lives for as long as they can..." Or she said something like that.

Point is, I am learning more and more, day after day... that Sibil said it best:

"...and always remember: the world is ripe with people looking to spill your blood"


The Empire still has many enemies out there. Clean your sword, repair your armor, mend your wounds. Empire has won but isn't out of the woods yet and it won't be... until she is vindicated in TES VI. And although I'm sad to say it, not proud of it, TMII's death is more than enough vindication for the present. It would be better, MUCH BETTER had Talos worship been restored AND TMII could live, however, Beth gravely limited our options... unlike New Vegas.

Shhh... you can save damn near everyone in that game... if you cared enough. :rolleyes:
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Oh yeah... I almost forgot. Before I leave this thread forever, may I offer parting gifts?


For Anouck:​
For DrunkenMage:​
Regrettably, I can't find a single link to it. So sorry. However, if you get the chance, please watch TNG: Q WHO. Pay close attention to what Q says. That's all the explanation you're ever going to get. XD​
For Dradin:​


GOODBYE FRIENDS!!!
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
EDG229.h_sky.on_forestpath.jpg
Still, a remnant Ayleid population seems to have survived the rule of the Alessians, because we hear of "the last king of the Ayleids" joining the Battle of Glenumbria Moors where the Dirennis decisively defeated the Alessians in 482. How this king's people survived the preceding century is unknown. We do not even know who they were, although recent research points to Nenalata as the possible resting place of this "last king." Unfortunately, in the current state of the Empire, funds are no longer available for proper scientific investigation of such extensive ruins, so the answer to these questions will have to be left to future generations.
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
I never said that. I never told people to drop the debate and to go back to their lifes. You must be confusing me with someone else.

Sent from my Huawei P6-UO6 using Tapapl***


28222-80aed4cecc459c6b60987fb35fa9f7fb.jpg
Well whose this then?​
 

Anouck

Queen of Procrastination
I never said that. I never told people to drop the debate and to go back to their lifes. You must be confusing me with someone else.

Sent from my Huawei P6-UO6 using Tapapl***


28222-80aed4cecc459c6b60987fb35fa9f7fb.jpg
Well whose this then?​

LOL.

That is no evidence for me saying we should drop the debate at all. It just shows me in my sexy Imperial armor, which basically shows I am ready to take up arms against Stormcloak scum. ;)
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Always leave 'em laughing. lolz

Take care.
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
I still think the empire is weak and the Imperials SUCK like they never sucked before. The Empire belongs to the Aldmeri Dominion. They are the high elves bitch.


Hmmm

Somehow when I look at Gen Tullius, I don't see a b*tch.

Only Thalmor b*tch I see is TMII and Ulfric. In every sense of the word too. Just cause the Emperor lost his nerve doesn't make all Imperials like him. Same with Ulfric vs Nords.
 

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