Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

I would agree with you if Ulfric benefited the people he served in any way long term. But the Empire isn't perfect, I admit. But they are better equipped to deal with the thalmor threat, and Ulfric seems more interested in fighting the Empire than the Thalmor. It could be argued that that's because of the CW though. As for the Empire's flaws, it is more justified because it sees the whole picture, and is the lesser of two evils. The Empire has a vastly higher population to take care of than Skyrim, and all of Skyrim isn't even committed to the STORMCLOAK cause. Roughly half of them are. Are they justified in dragging down the whole house to accomplish their own ends?

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Just because someone believes they are right doesn't justify them. The stormcloaks worsen Skyrim's position as well as the Empire's position as a whole. That includes the millions of people that call the provinces home. I see what you're saying though. My point is that joining the stormcloaks is like shooting yourself in the foot.

This same conclusion pertains every bit as much to the Empire as it does the Stormcloaks.

You continue to try and justify the Empire's survival. This is no different from a Stormcloak trying to justify his country's survival and that of his way of life. Any Nord is capable of speech and deciding what to do with his money. Emperor sold separately.

In this fight for survival knowing that neither side itself is right or wrong, they are still judged by their actions.

You cannot maintain the Empire should live because it was good in the past. You cannot condemn a Province for wanting to be good in the future.

However, the Thalmor are the common denominator in this madness and clearly serve as the Final Antagonist to both parties. The Thalmor are why they fear the night, the Dominion is why you keep your doors locked and pray that God(s) watch over you with a ready sword.

It is therefore my conclusion that the righteous faction can safely be determined by how they have dealt with the Thalmor.

And even if the Stormcloaks do intend to try and deal with the Thalmor, they cannot hope to go on the offensive in their current position. They are nothing but words and one dragonborn.

 

[NENALATA]

I would agree with you if Ulfric benefited the people he served in any way long term. But the Empire isn't perfect, I admit. But they are better equipped to deal with the thalmor threat, and Ulfric seems more interested in fighting the Empire than the Thalmor. It could be argued that that's because of the CW though. As for the Empire's flaws, it is more justified because it sees the whole picture, and is the lesser of two evils. The Empire has a vastly higher population to take care of than Skyrim, and all of Skyrim isn't even committed to the STORMCLOAK cause. Roughly half of them are. Are they justified in dragging down the whole house to accomplish their own ends?

That is your opinion based on a biased perspective.

I respect it, however it is not strong enough to draw a solid conclusion.

It is not good enough to look a man in his eyes and take away his heart.

No. Nor should this be done to anyone based on the opinion's of man.

 

[NENALATA]

As I stated before, the Thalmor are the common denominator here, everything else is Provincial matters.

A servant of the Thalmor is an enemy to man, for he calls the Thalmor 'Master'.

The only question(s) remains is...

1) Is it one?
2) Both?
3) None?

The truth points to itself although is usually guarded by an Army of lies. And a house fighting itself won't stand.

So there must be an answer.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

I would agree with you if Ulfric benefited the people he served in any way long term. But the Empire isn't perfect, I admit. But they are better equipped to deal with the thalmor threat, and Ulfric seems more interested in fighting the Empire than the Thalmor. It could be argued that that's because of the CW though. As for the Empire's flaws, it is more justified because it sees the whole picture, and is the lesser of two evils. The Empire has a vastly higher population to take care of than Skyrim, and all of Skyrim isn't even committed to the STORMCLOAK cause. Roughly half of them are. Are they justified in dragging down the whole house to accomplish their own ends?

That is your opinion based on a biased perspective.

I respect it, however it is not strong enough to draw a solid conclusion.

It is not good enough to look a man in his eyes and take away his heart.

No. Nor should this be done to anyone based on the opinion's of man.

It is your bias perspective that my perspective is bias.

Just because the future isn't certain doesn't mean you should ignore context clues.

What is good enough to look a man in the eyes and take away his heart?

Probably true. But it happens anyways and is happening as we speak. Just because it shouldn't happen won't change it.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

As I stated before, the Thalmor are the common denominator here, everything else is Provincial matters.

A servant of the Thalmor is an enemy to man, for he calls the Thalmor 'Master'.

The only question(s) remains is...

1) Is it one?
2) Both?
3) None?

The truth points to itself although is usually guarded by an Army of lies. And a house fighting itself won't stand.

So there must be an answer.

Or a cryptically phrased series of questions.

 

[NENALATA]

It is your bias perspective that my perspective is bias.

Just because the future isn't certain doesn't mean you should ignore context clues.

What is good enough to look a man in the eyes and take away his heart?

Probably true. But it happens anyways and is happening as we speak. Kust because it shouldn't happen won't change it.

Just an observation. I have yet to claim any side is better than the other. By declaring the Empire is 'better', invites speculation.

Sometimes we see only what we (the heart) wants to see. Because to think otherwise would leave the heart helpless.

Even though it is happening, doesn't make it right or justified.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

The Empire is better equipped to wage war with the Dominion as well as take care of their people. That is fact. Whether they would use these capabilities or not is the speculation, as well as how well and to what end.

 

[NENALATA]

The Empire is better equipped to wage war with the Dominion as well as take care of their people. That is fact. Whether they would use these capabilities or not is the speculation, as well as how well and to what end.

Yet they failed to defeat the Thalmor, that is fact, which is what got us into this situation.

Granted, this does not mean the Empire shouldn't survive and does not disqualify them.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

The Empire is better equipped to wage war with the Dominion as well as take care of their people. That is fact. Whether they would use these capabilities or not is the speculation, as well as how well and to what end.

Yet they failed to defeat the Thalmor, that is fact, which is what got us into this situation.

Granted, this does not mean the Empire shouldn't survive and does not disqualify them.

Failed to defeat them yes, but succeeded in turning a near unwinnable surprise situation into a stalemate and causing a ceasefire. Could Ulfric have managed better? Maybe. Probably not. But Skyrim standing alone definitely couldn't, and a divided Empire certainly couldn't. If the Stormcloaks win, it almost guarantees a weaker position for all of the provinces that stand against the Dominion as a whole, and we have come full circle.

 

[NENALATA]

Failed to defeat them yes, but succeeded in turning a near unwinnable surprise situation into a stalemate and causing a ceasefire. Could Ulfric have managed better? Maybe. Probably not. But Skyrim standing alone definitely couldn't, and a divided Empire certainly couldn't. If the Stormcloaks win, it almost guarantees a weaker position for all of the provinces that stand against the Dominion as a whole, and we have come full circle.

There is no conclusive evidence or any collective proof that the various Provinces would stand against the Thalmor.

Hammerfell is in the ER Recovery Wing, the only true Victor in the Great War with the Thalmor. They will be out of it for some time, protected by Treaty of Stros M'Kai, their pirate mercs and no questions asked.

Highrock never gave Ulfric an answer. They're waiting to see what happens.

Nova Orsinium has just been founded after the Orcs Kingdom was removed from existence in central Highrock.

Argonia doesn't give a pl*ps.

Neither does Morrowind.

Skyrim is the heart of this Empire. Which is fitting in that the fate of the Empire will be decided thusly.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Failed to defeat them yes, but succeeded in turning a near unwinnable surprise situation into a stalemate and causing a ceasefire. Could Ulfric have managed better? Maybe. Probably not. But Skyrim standing alone definitely couldn't, and a divided Empire certainly couldn't. If the Stormcloaks win, it almost guarantees a weaker position for all of the provinces that stand against the Dominion as a whole, and we have come full circle.

There is no conclusive evidence or any collective proof that the various Provinces would stand against the Thalmor.

Hammerfell is in the ER Recovery Wing, the only true Victor in the Great War with the Thalmor. They will be out of it for some time, protected by Treaty of Stros M'Kai, their pirate mercs and no questions asked.

Highrock never gave Ulfric an answer. They're waiting to see what happens.

Nova Orsinium has just been founded after the Orcs Kingdom was removed from existence in central Highrock.

Argonia doesn't give a pl*ps.

Neither does Morrowind.

Skyrim is the heart of this Empire. Which is fitting in that the fate of the Empire will be decided thusly.

My original post still stands.

 

[NENALATA]

My original post still stands.

As does my Observation(s).

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

My original post still stands.

As does my Observation(s).

True. The Empire won't be going into the next war as strong as they were the first, but neither is the Dominion. The Empire also have had more time to prepare this time. But Mede is probably almost certainly dead, so idk. It could go either way, but their chances would be better if Skyrim stayed in the Empire. Everyone's chances are worse except for the Dominion' s if they don't.

 

[NENALATA]

True. The Empire won't be going into the next war as strong as they were the first, but neither is the Dominion. The Empire also have had more time to prepare this time. But Mede is probably almost certainly dead, so idk. It could go either way, but their chances would be better if Skyrim stayed in the Empire. Everyone's chances are worse except for the Dominion' s if they don't.

You cannot out plan the Dominion. That is a biased assertion and a fact.

You mentioned before about taking a stand. Well, no one can take a stand until they know what to stand for.

The wrong choice will bring ruin.

So the Civil War continues.

Time and chance happen for everyone regardless.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

True. The Empire won't be going into the next war as strong as they were the first, but neither is the Dominion. The Empire also have had more time to prepare this time. But Mede is probably almost certainly dead, so idk. It could go either way, but their chances would be better if Skyrim stayed in the Empire. Everyone's chances are worse except for the Dominion' s if they don't.

You cannot out plan the Dominion. That is a biased assertion and a fact.

You mentioned before about taking a stand. Well, no one can take a stand until they know what to stand for.

The wrong choice will bring ruin.

So the Civil War continues.

Time and chance happen for everyone regardless.

You can't outplan someone you don't know is planning to attack you, true. But this time they know the attack is coming.

This is true.

Also true.

And kinda true.

The Stormcloaks are definitely the worst of the two choices. The context you use right and wrong in makes me want to say the Stormcloaks are the wrong choice if one wants to have the best chance at defeating the Dominion.

 

[NENALATA]

You can't outplan someone you don't know is planning to attack you, true. But this time they know the attack is coming.

This is true.

Also true.

And kinda true.

The Stormcloaks are definitely the worst of the two choices. The context you use right and wrong in makes me want to say the Stormcloaks are the wrong choice if one wants to have the best chance at defeating the Dominion.

Both have sex appeal my friend.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

You can't outplan someone you don't know is planning to attack you, true. But this time they know the attack is coming.

This is true.

Also true.

And kinda true.

The Stormcloaks are definitely the worst of the two choices. The context you use right and wrong in makes me want to say the Stormcloaks are the wrong choice if one wants to have the best chance at defeating the Dominion.

Both have sex appeal my friend.

Indeed.

 

[NENALATA]

Of course, now that I think about it, I suppose the way the Empire conducts business at Whiterun shows it's true colors.

Giving the Illusion of choice over forcing someone into submission - Even another domain whose people hold beliefs parallel to that of the Empire... what with the free and open worship of Talos and all.

At one point just before the craziness begins, the Legion even offers to leave if the Jarl isn't satisfied.

Not to mention how the Stormcloaks intend to enslave the Forsworn and probably anyone who opposes their new agenda. As opposed to the Empire who gave them citizen status before. Not to mention how on several occasions the Stormcloaks intentionally and willfully intrude on personal space, claiming it's public interest.

That answers my question. And this should not be overlooked. This Empire is weak and the strength it does have, doesn't compare to the strength it used to have, yet what makes a people worth saving?

For my part, I deem the Imperial civilization worth saving.

The Imperials did not intentionally collaborate with the Thalmor. They were forced to.

As opposed to Ulfric and the Stormcloaks. Can't tell me they don't know what's up. They know.

 

[Irishman]

Quick question guys, and I would like an accurate answer...

How long was it between Ulfric killing the High King and Alduin's attack at Helgen??