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Argonian Question.

Discussion in 'General Skyrim Discussion' started by Hildolfr, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. AS88

    AS88 Well-Known Member
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    I realise that, I was speaking in terms of families or groups that had settled with nowhere else to go. The Red Mountain erupted nearly two hundred years ago, and there are still Dunmer in Windhelm (I appreciate the difference in life span).

    Yeah, you would think they'd use a Nord. But they probably didn't expect the Dragonborn to go marching in and kill the dozen or so Thalmor in the Ratway, so time was of the essence. I'd say the Thalmor would be willing to risk a little uproar for the sake of killing the Dragonborn and Esbern, both very high level targets. The Riften Guard are corrupt, who's to say that Maven or Maul didn't slip a coin purse into one of their pockets and tell them they saw nothing? Had it gone to plan, Shavari would've killed the targets, and left, never to be heard from again.

    In response to your "Hey, Imperials here is your evidence we're breaching Imperial Law and failing to adhere to the treaty. Come kill us," who would tell the Imperials? Riften is loyal to Ulfric, as is much of the public from what little we know, and I doubt the Black-Briars would rat each other out. The Black-Briar theory is just that, a theory. She's disguised, ie wearing normal clothes instead of armour, and could even have swam under the gates. But if there wasn't a blanket ban enforced, although potentially by judgemental guards on a discretionary basis, you'd think that we'd see more than one Khajiit inside a city over the course of the game.

    Anyway, I've made my point, and I will stop derailing the thread. :)
     
  2. DrunkenMage

    DrunkenMage Intoxicated Arch-Mage

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    When it comes to Khajiit families, wouldn't they have simply moved into Cyrodiil where the climate is warm and the air is nice? :p

    I shall make my point, if an entire race is banned there would be large amounts of evidence and no contradiction towards it. There wouldn't be this vagueness or doubtful theories. Bethesda aren't that bad when it comes to in game information, generally you can't over think things too much in regards to lore.
     
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  3. Daelon DuLac

    Daelon DuLac How do you backstab a Dragon?

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    I like Argos. I usually play them as tank-sneaky types and ALWAYS do the main Questline with them and get all the shouts (nothing cooler than an Argo with Fire & Frost breath).

    While their disease resistance is great, I really like their ability to stay underwater. There are a lot of things down there in the depths that I never get with my other characters (since I don't carry many potions and never carry waterbreathing but lots of invisibility). I luv doing dwemer ruins with them since so many are so waterlogged.

    To me there's nothing cooler than a Dragonborn Argo in scaled armor with a really big ax and a kicka** bow.

    Of course I also like that you can get colourful with an Argo (the head feathers, warpaint, etc...) as you can't with any other race. :)
     
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  4. Reaper87

    Reaper87 吉光

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    I agree with Daelon, the colour/feathers/horns option is pretty cool.
     
  5. Amaryllis

    Amaryllis New Member

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    It makes no sense at all to assume that only the caravans were banned from cities. If it was just the caravans, all the Khajiit would need to do is split up and be like 'no I'm not part of a caravan. You're silly for asking!' and just conduct their business on the down-low while doing something else.

    If we assume that Roma are the inspiration for the Khajiit (which I think is pretty accepted), then cultural hate of them was not limited simply to the traveling gypsies, but to everyone who was a part of that ethnic group. And if we assume the Nords are an actual race (and not a nearly meaningless designation given to characters in a videogame), then it would be really weird if they hated Khajiit caravans unequivocally, but were totally cool with random Khajiit running around conducting business with people and talking to their children in cities.

    Ysolda's quotes are pretty noncommittal on the whole deal, it's true, but there is no evidence to suggest that Khajiit aren't universally banned from cities (the one quest spawned NPC simply suggests that Bethesda either didn't catch it, or didn't care enough to do anything about it).
     
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  6. Hildolfr

    Hildolfr It's a big hammer.

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    Aren't Khajiit also known for their stealth abilities? Isn't it possible that they chose a Khajiit because she was someone who was capable of slipping in, getting the job done, and slipping out unnoticed? It definitely seems like the Thalmor plan in the Ratways kind of went to plops pretty quickly for them.

    I reiterate that I still think the info the game gives us makes it inconclusive. I see both sides of the argument as totally logical and valid. I, personally, just lean towards the idea that all Khajiit are banned due to some horrid xenophobia on the part of the Nords. I also feel like that xenophobic mentality fits with their superstitious ways. "You wouldn't understand, Housecarl. You ain't a Nord."
     
  7. DrunkenMage

    DrunkenMage Intoxicated Arch-Mage

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    Nords tend to hate every race, but if we're going to say the entire khajiit race is banned from Skyrim's cities. Then this is fairly recent as Khajiit have been in the cities historically, so if it is purely racial that Khajiit cannot enter any city in Skyrim, with the exception of the player, the Khajiit assassin and khajiit followers. Simply over culture as which you say they're Roma based, even though this is the only time they're shown this way in TES, why would this racial hatred start now?

    If they are hated by all then why aren't Khajiit banned everywhere, especially since the only Khajiit mainly shown belong to the Caravans and they're looked upon as smugglers.

    Really going to go on the belief that is only supported if we say Bethesda is inept in game making?

    Look at how Ysolda says it. "Yeah, these Khajiit make a living traveling the roads and selling their wares. It's got to be tough. Skyrim's a hard enough land when you've got a roof over your head. Worst thing is, nobody wants them in the cities. Nobody trusts them."

    'These Khajiit' (Caravans).
    Nobody wants 'them'(Caravans) in the cities.
    Nobody trusts 'them' (Caravans).

    She isn't talking about the entire race, that is foolish to believe because the entire Khajiit race are not merchants who peddle their wares. Nords can be jerks, but they're not going to ban an entire race. They hate everyone equally, if they were to ban one race they would ban all other races. You'd think if races were getting banned from cities... it'd be the elves who'd go first.
     
  8. ShadowHunter

    ShadowHunter Active Member

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    It is Khajiit that aren't allowed in cities, not Argonians. The only city they are not allowed in is Windhelm, due to the Nords constantly harassing them even more so than Dark Elves
     
  9. DrunkenMage

    DrunkenMage Intoxicated Arch-Mage

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    I only just noticed this, really? How dumb do you think Nords are. :p

    Riften Guard 1 - "Hey, is that one of them cats!"
    Riften Guard 2 - "Nah, she's wearing people clothes. That is how you can tell who is and who isn't a cat."

    Swam under the gate, she was standing around the markets pretending to buy things. Little out in the open aye?
     
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  10. AS88

    AS88 Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, she could've worn a hood :p

    Skyrim's a rushed game, we all know that. I imagine that had they been given all the time in the world, she'd have been perched somewhere high up, with a bow drawn ready for you, with a flippin' hood on. This is why I can't say anything either way on this game, there is a lot of conjecture and "well it must be" used. I've just finished a law degree, so if it's not 100% then it's not enough, but I'm happy to consider either side and talk about the pros and cons.

    As always, though, I see your point of view. You tend to go very much on hard evidence and lore, which is ideal but doesn't always extend to individual acts, eg racism of guards, underhanded dealings, etc, which may or may not happen. Obviously lore is more useful and you can't dispute it, and there's not always evidence of what I'm talking about in-game, but this is something that's talked about often - the beauty of Skyrim, you make you own world.

    Now, stop it before we start throwing personal insults!!!!!!!! :mad: :p
     
  11. DrunkenMage

    DrunkenMage Intoxicated Arch-Mage

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    "Can this one come in?"
    "Right away."
    "Wasn't that a Khajiit?"
    "She was wearing people clothes and she had a hood on, therefor not a Khajiit."
    "Didn't she have a tail?"
    "Oh plops... ah well she already went inside, their problem now." :p

    I can understand your view. Though ponder on this last thought, if the entire race was banned across all Holds including those under Imperial influence, then how would that affect the Legion who accept all races which Khajiit could be part of, or a Khajiit official/noble/council member or even a Diplomat from Elsweyr?

    That is one of the many issues when it comes with banning an entire race, which wouldn't be accepted under Imperial authority, unless there were exceptions which thus proves it is impossible to ban the entire race. :p
     
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  12. AS88

    AS88 Well-Known Member
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    I agree! I'm not saying there's a ban, I'm saying that the guards don't let them in. ;)
     
  13. Cherry

    Cherry Farfetch'd is judging you!

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    I only quickly skimmed through this thread, but I didn't see anyone suggesting an Argonian mage. Remember, Argonians are described in lore as being intelligent. What's more, many bandit wizards are Argonian, and I remember there being surprisingly many Argonians in Oblivion's Mage's Guild, so an Argonian mage is definately lore-friendly.

    I was thinking of a pyromancer named Plays-With-Fire
     
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  14. Mr Forz

    Mr Forz I'm helping. Mostly.

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    Did somebody say Argonian mage?


    Well, you can do anything and remain lore friendly with some dedication, Onmund, J'zargo and even the Gourmet are good examples. Also, Skyrim doesn't tend to cover many varieties of some races, a Khajiit warrior is a force to be reckoned with if I remember well.
     
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  15. AS88

    AS88 Well-Known Member
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    There's the Argonian mage ghost featured in that College of Winterhold quest, too. :)

    *carefully steps around spoilers*
     
  16. DrunkenMage

    DrunkenMage Intoxicated Arch-Mage

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    Khajiit warriors are indeed a force to be reckoned with. Enough to even be said their tactics and ability is something the Legion could learn from.
     
  17. DrunkenMage

    DrunkenMage Intoxicated Arch-Mage

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    There is another Argonian mage featured in the ruin where you get firey soul trap.

    I have never actually played as an Argonian in any TES game, might have to run an Argonian mage in Oblivion or Skyrim perhaps.
     
  18. AS88

    AS88 Well-Known Member
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    Oh yeah, Beem-Ja.
     
  19. MalkavianVentrue

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    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason Argonians aren't allowed in Windhelm is due to the tension between the Dunmer and the Argonians, not because of the tension between the Nords and the Argonians. Suvaris Atheron can even be heard insulting the Argonians by saying "These lazy Argonians better get their tails moving".
     
  20. DrunkenMage

    DrunkenMage Intoxicated Arch-Mage

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    Since this thread is about Argonians, I will create an Argonian sometime later. Thinking maybe shaman type, tribal like. Forsworn armor perhaps, with the skulls. Use some alchemy for poisons (Since sadly I can't create a plague like Argonian shaman's of old), probably live in the manor near Morthal. Have the altar blank with just skulls, human hearts etc on it. Alchemy garden, greenhouse and just no other furniture or lighting in the place, give it that creepy vibe.

    Maybe a fish hatchery that has slaughter fish in it, that way when bandits attack my house I can drag their bodies and dump them in the water to feed my pretties. :p
     
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