Argonian Question.

[Hildolfr]

I'm once again getting the urge to make a new character and I want to do something I've never done before. I had considered playing an Orc (I've always wanted to), but I feel like they'd end up playing exactly like all my Nords. I thought some more and I realized I've never touched a beast race. I prefer lizards to cats, so I'm going to give Argonians a try.

However, I have a dilemma and I'm hoping someone can help. How do you reconcile the fact that Argonians aren't allowed in cities? I RP my characters to some extent and I enjoy that aspect of the game. This seems to be a major issue for me.

Other than that glaring problem for me, any other tips for playing an Argonian? What's a good build that's not a warrior build that's fun to play with them? Also... got any badass name suggestions?

Appreciate the help and maybe this will change my view of the beast races!

 

[AS88]

Argonians are allowed in cities, just not Windhelm. There are Argonians in both Riften and Solitude, I assume mostly due to the fact that they're both near water. As for build, I enjoy sneaky archers and pickpockets for Argonians, with lots of Alchemy thrown in. Thieves Guild works well for this build, which is handy because Argonians tend to like Riften.

 

[Hildolfr]

Ah, ok. Just Windhelm. Which I can reconcile with the fact that by the time I enter Windhelm, I'll have already established myself as Dragonborn. It just goes to show you my misconceptions about the beast races. Khajiit aren't allowed into cities, though, right?

A sneaky archer, eh? I could try that. My sneaky archers always turn into assassin's, though.

Also, I would have given you rep, but apparently I need to give it to 5 people before you.

 

[Khasrin]

Ah, ok. Just Windhelm. Which I can reconcile with the fact that by the time I enter Windhelm, I'll have already established myself as Dragonborn. It just goes to show you my misconceptions about the beast races. Khajiit aren't allowed into cities, though, right?

A sneaky archer, eh? I could try that. My sneaky archers always turn into assassin's, though.

Also, I would have given you rep, but apparently I need to give it to 5 people before you.

It would appear that it's only the Khajiit caravans that are not allowed in the cities (and bandits of course, and with only a handful of exceptions all Khajiit found in Skyrim are one or the other). You will find one named Shavari walking around in Riften unhindered at a certain point in the main quest.

 

[AS88]

Ah, ok. Just Windhelm. Which I can reconcile with the fact that by the time I enter Windhelm, I'll have already established myself as Dragonborn. It just goes to show you my misconceptions about the beast races. Khajiit aren't allowed into cities, though, right?

A sneaky archer, eh? I could try that. My sneaky archers always turn into assassin's, though.

Also, I would have given you rep, but apparently I need to give it to 5 people before you.

It would appear that it's only the Khajiit caravans that are not allowed in the cities (and bandits of course, and with only a handful of exceptions all Khajiit found in Skyrim are one or the other). You will find one named Shavari walking around in Riften unhindered at a certain point in the main quest.

I'm still convinced that the Thalmor pulled a few strings in Maven's city and smuggled her in. I'd have thought that there would be a couple of Khajiit mercenaries poking about in cities if they were normally allowed in.

 

[Khasrin]

Ah, ok. Just Windhelm. Which I can reconcile with the fact that by the time I enter Windhelm, I'll have already established myself as Dragonborn. It just goes to show you my misconceptions about the beast races. Khajiit aren't allowed into cities, though, right?

A sneaky archer, eh? I could try that. My sneaky archers always turn into assassin's, though.

Also, I would have given you rep, but apparently I need to give it to 5 people before you.

It would appear that it's only the Khajiit caravans that are not allowed in the cities (and bandits of course, and with only a handful of exceptions all Khajiit found in Skyrim are one or the other). You will find one named Shavari walking around in Riften unhindered at a certain point in the main quest.

I'm still convinced that the Thalmor pulled a few strings in Maven's city and smuggled her in. I'd have thought that there would be a couple of Khajiit mercenaries poking about in cities if they were normally allowed in.

*grumbles* Well, maybe...possibly...damn it, AS88, don't make me invent a whole other justification for my Khajiit being allowed to wander around in the cities That's extra work! lol

Well apart from Shavari there's also J'zargo at the College, who is presumably allowed in Winterhold if he is allowed to be at the College. Unless you think Winterhold doesn't count, which you could probably make a valid argument for...

 

[AS88]

It would appear that it's only the Khajiit caravans that are not allowed in the cities (and bandits of course, and with only a handful of exceptions all Khajiit found in Skyrim are one or the other). You will find one named Shavari walking around in Riften unhindered at a certain point in the main quest.

I'm still convinced that the Thalmor pulled a few strings in Maven's city and smuggled her in. I'd have thought that there would be a couple of Khajiit mercenaries poking about in cities if they were normally allowed in.

*grumbles* Well, maybe...possibly...damn it, AS88, you're making me invent a whole other justification for my Khajiit being allowed to wander around in the cities! That's extra work! lol

Well apart from Shavari there's also J'zargo at the College, who is presumably allowed in Winterhold if he is allowed to be at the College. Unless you think Winterhold doesn't count.

It's just what I've always thought!

Yeah, Winterhold doesn't count It's open, no walls, and the College holds no discrimination regarding race. I don't think he ever leaves the College, so the guards probably don't care enough to complain.

I managed to justify city entry for a Khajiit mercenary of mine. He would collect bounties in village inns or taverns, complete the bounty and enter the city with the purpose of collecting his reward. Eventually, the Jarls allow him to stay in their city for one night, i.e. when he hands in the bounty, to get some rest and see to his armour and weapons.

 

[Khasrin]

Lol...alright then.

My Khajiit do tend to sneak around in cities they haven't been to before, wearing as much as possible to disguise themselves (not much you can do to hide that perky tail, though...lol) until they have some reason established for being there. And even then, they get what they came for and they're gone. They don't linger and don't buy property or become Thane unless they can't weasel out of it...this one is looking at you, Jarl Balgruuf (Just because one is tolerated doesn't mean one is welcome, no?)

Frankly that's one minor thing that irks me about Skyrim - this pretense that certain races are not allowed in the cities, which turns out to be immaterial since you can wander into any city you choose, and half the time you can become Thane in a matter of days. I realize for the sake of the game, Dragonborn Argonians and Khajiit need to move freely around Skyrim, but still... *grumbles some more*

I feel like city guards should be more hostile toward the "beast races" if this is the case. Similar to when you're in Gloombound Mine in the Orc stronghold of Narzulbur....if you're not an Orc or Blood-Kin, the Orcs will tell you that you need to leave, or that you don't belong there (but without actually throwing you out). Something like that would have made more sense.

 

[Lucid]

I'm still convinced that the Thalmor pulled a few strings in Maven's city and smuggled her in. I'd have thought that there would be a couple of Khajiit mercenaries poking about in cities if they were normally allowed in.

Pretty sure she's an assassin working for Elenwen isn't she?

 

[AS88]

I'm still convinced that the Thalmor pulled a few strings in Maven's city and smuggled her in. I'd have thought that there would be a couple of Khajiit mercenaries poking about in cities if they were normally allowed in.

Pretty sure she's an assassin working for Elenwen isn't she?

Precisely.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I'm still convinced that the Thalmor pulled a few strings in Maven's city and smuggled her in. I'd have thought that there would be a couple of Khajiit mercenaries poking about in cities if they were normally allowed in.

Maven can only pull so few strings, allowing a Khajiit inside a city if the entire race was banned due to Nords it would risk violence and draw too much attention, Elenwen would of used another race if that was the case, they do have Nords working for them. Khajiit Caravans are banned from the city, the khajiit themselves seem to mention this.

 

[Amaryllis]

Frankly that's one minor thing that irks me about Skyrim - this pretense that certain races are not allowed in the cities, which turns out to be immaterial since you can wander into any city you choose, and half the time you can become Thane in a matter of days. I realize for the sake of the game, Dragonborn Argonians and Khajiit need to move freely around Skyrim, but still... *grumbles some more*

That's a part of Skyrim's -- and all TES games really -- bigger problem, which is that the game steadfastly refuses, literally avoids, ever acknowledging you as a character. You are a pair of floating hands (what is this 'third-person PoV' you speak of?) that may hold some combination of weapons, shields, and spells, that is able to accept people's quests. And that's all.

Not only can you walk into any city as a Khajiit, but you can drag a Khajiit companion in there with you as well (and if you mod, get a who pride of Khajiit companions), and not hear the slightest peep from anyone. And actually, reaction to your companion(s) is also something sorely lacking, but that's a different rant.

I understand Bethesda couldn't make the game unwinnable for you if you happened to pick a certain race, but they could at least act like it's something significant. As much as we want to debate about Bethesda not having the budget to make the 'perfect' immersive RPG, it wouldn't have cost them much to add a couple extra flags and have the voice actors do a couple extra lines, to at least portray that the game notices.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Khajiit aren't banned from the city, only the caravans which they see as thieves and skooma dealers. Caravan doesn't equal the entire race. In Skyrim most Khajiit are either bandits or part of the Caravans, there is no mention in game that the entire race is banned, there is however evidence that suggests it is only for the 'Caravans'

Speaking with Ysolda.
When asked what she knows about the Khajiit she states "About the same as everyone else. They're the cat-folk of Elsweyr. Great warriors, good traders. Way I hear it, Elsweyr ain't nothing like Skyrim. It's got tropical forests and dusty badlands. It sounds awful!", which opens a topic about the trading caravans to which she replies "Yeah, these Khajiit make a living traveling the roads and selling their wares. It's got to be tough. Skyrim's a hard enough land when you've got a roof over your head. Worst thing is, nobody wants them in the cities. Nobody trusts them."

 

[Hildolfr]

Just so you know, AS88, I love the idea of having a Khajiit or Argonian do bounties before being allowed into the city proper. That's an awesome idea and I'm totally going to steal it.

Also, I read the line from Ysolda to mean all Khajiit. That people assume they're all drug dealers and thieves and, as a result, the caravans who are legit suffer because of the prejudice towards the entire race. However, I think there's enough vagueness that you could look at in whatever way you need.

 

[DrunkenMage]

If reading Ysolda's lines, not all Khajiit peddle their wares. Otherwise taking it to mean the entire race would mean that every Khajiit travels across Skyrim to sell their wares. Banning an entire race to banning the Caravans who are all part of the same group, working for Ri'saad, are two very different things.

Argonians aren't banned from any city either, in regards to Windhelm they're banned from living inside the city.
"Did you know it was his decree that forbade the Argonians from living inside the city walls?" - Scouts-Many-Marshes, about Ulfric.

If entire races were banned from the cities, it would be very clear on that. It wouldn't be doubtful or vague. TES may have some minor holes in lore, but nothing on this scale. Bethesda isn't as inept as some people make out, they aren't perfect, but not being able to understand something doesn't make it their fault.

 

[TJ0331]

I would do archery, light armor, dual wield swords, and some sneak. I would be a hit and run guerrilla fighter.

 

[AS88]

Just so you know, AS88, I love the idea of having a Khajiit or Argonian do bounties before being allowed into the city proper. That's an awesome idea and I'm totally going to steal it.

Great stuff, as long as I get the credit

DrunkenMage, I dunno man. You'd think that we'd see at least a couple of Khajiit in cities other than Shavari if they weren't limited to outside the walls, right? I don't think we can be conclusive on this, but I understand and take your points

 

[DrunkenMage]

Just so you know, AS88, I love the idea of having a Khajiit or Argonian do bounties before being allowed into the city proper. That's an awesome idea and I'm totally going to steal it.

Great stuff, as long as I get the credit

DrunkenMage, I dunno man. You'd think that we'd see at least a couple of Khajiit in cities other than Shavari if they weren't limited to outside the walls, right? I don't think we can be conclusive on this, but I understand and take your points

You don't see any non-Nords in the Stormcloaks, does that mean they don't accept other races? No, they do. Banning an entire race wouldn't sit well with the Empire especially, if it was confined to say Eastern Holds then yeah maybe you got a case. The Empire didn't spend lots of time abolishing the slave trade and extending equal rights to all races for it to be ignored in Skyrim.

Many Khajiit don't want to be in Skyrim, the Caravans are only there because most of them are unwelcome in Elsweyr and Cyrodiil due to criminal pasts or they owe one another. Skyrim is kind of the last place Khajiit would go, even though they have fur, they can't stand the cold.

Ri'saad and his caravans are brave, but to be honest they shouldn't be complaining about the Nords not letting them inside the cities. They do buy stolen goods and sell skooma after all.

 

[AS88]

Just so you know, AS88, I love the idea of having a Khajiit or Argonian do bounties before being allowed into the city proper. That's an awesome idea and I'm totally going to steal it.

Great stuff, as long as I get the credit

DrunkenMage, I dunno man. You'd think that we'd see at least a couple of Khajiit in cities other than Shavari if they weren't limited to outside the walls, right? I don't think we can be conclusive on this, but I understand and take your points

1) You don't see any non-Nords in the Stormcloaks, does that mean they don't accept other races? No, they do. Banning an entire race wouldn't sit well with the Empire especially, if it was confined to say Eastern Holds then yeah maybe you got a case. The Empire didn't spend lots of time abolishing the slave trade and extending equal rights to all races for it to be ignored in Skyrim.

2) Many Khajiit don't want to be in Skyrim, the Caravans are only there because most of them are unwelcome in Elsweyr and Cyrodiil due to criminal pasts or they owe one another. Skyrim is kind of the last place Khajiit would go, even though they have fur, they can't stand the cold.

3) Ri'saad and his caravans are brave, but to be honest they shouldn't be complaining about the Nords not letting them inside the cities. They do buy stolen goods and sell skooma after all.

I numbered these to make stuff easier for us (me).

1) Yeah, you do see non-Nords going to Windhelm to join the Stormcloaks ("Ulfric has the right of it," "Skyrim's as much my home as any Nord's"), so that suggests that they know they're allowed in, wouldn't you say? Despite the fact that we never actually see them, you could claim that it's impossible to see all of the Stormcloak army at any one time (despite the fact that they only actually spawn as Nords) and could therefore take from that that they are out there, just quite unusual.

In answer to your points in both 1) and 2), wouldn't you think there'd be at least a few Khajiit roaming around Windhelm or Riften? Ex-slaves who have come from Morrowind following the trouble there? We see, what, about 15 named Khajiit in the game? And all of the Khajiit bandits, dozens probably. One has managed to get herself into a city; a Thalmor assassin. A city that is corrupt, and ran behind the scenes by the Black-Briars, who are aligned with the Thalmor. So, making reference to my point about the Stormcloaks earlier, that would suggest that Khajiit are not allowed into walled cities. See my point?

I'm not saying you're wrong, because I don't think there's enough proof either way. I 100% see you points, all of them, but I'm still sticking to what I've said.

 

[DrunkenMage]

There hasn't been slavery in Morrowind for over two hundred years when it was finally abolished, little late for ex slaves jumping ship?

Maven does things that help Maven or her family, the Thalmor have Nord assets as well as Khajiit, for the Thalmor not trying to draw attention to itself to allow assassins inside a city. Wouldn't they use a Nord instead of Khajiit if the Khajiit race was banned? Thalmor don't like mass attention to their covert operations, especially the ones that breach Imperial law.

Maven is aligned with the Empire, heavily. The Thalmor going through Maven may as well paint a large sign that says "Hey, Imperials here is your evidence we're breaching Imperial Law and failing to adhere to the treaty. Come kill us." The Thalmor are doing things secretly because they know the Empire won't hesitate to kill or arrest them with evidence.

The Thalmor aren't stupid, they wouldn't go to such extremes measures of secrecy and then go "Oh yeah lets just be lazy on this part."