Doom Driven Hero

I decided to replay the main quest for the second time ever, and this phrase kept cropping up.

Now, when I hear a phrase like that, it sounds like a fancy way of saying: "going to die heroically." But seeing as you survive the main storyline, perhaps it does not mean what I think it means.

Those who know Elder Scroll lore better than I, is doom a word which means something specific? Or something slightly different to what I would use the word doom?

Or is the phrase doom driven hero supposed to refer to the fact that intrigue, violence and chaos inevitably follows the Dovahkiin wherever they go? All you have to do is poke your nose into a new town and all sorts of hideous things with far reaching consequences happen.

Here are is the exact dialogue I remember the phrase doom driven hero or just doom being used:

Paarthurnax said this the first time you rock up with the Elder Scroll:

"You have it. The Kel - the Elder Scroll. Tiid kreh... qalos. Time shudders at its touch. There is no question. You are doom-driven. Kogaan Akatosh. The very bones of the earth are at your disposal. Go then. Fulfill your destiny. Take the Scroll to the Time-Wound. Do not delay. Alduin will be coming. He cannot miss the signs."

Tsun when you claim entry to the Hall of Valor by right of birth (Dragonborn) he says: "Ah! It's been too long since last I faced a doom-driven hero of the dragon blood". He also said, when told you pursue Alduin the world eater: "A fateful errand. No few have chafed to face the Worm since first he set his soul-snare here at Sovngarde's threshold. But Shor restrained our wrathful onslaught - perhaps, deep counselled, your doom he foresaw."

Doom doesn't always mean death or destruction. It is also used to refer to fate. One's doom may not be one's end, but it is nonetheless inescapable.

The Dragonborn is surrounded by both death and destruction as well as fate and prophecy. Wherever she walks, people die, things burn, the immortal is destroyed, bonds are broken or renewed. Whatever his inclination, he destroys the status quo and upsets the order of the day. Companion, Thief, Assassin, Mage, Legionaire, Stormcloak, Vampire or Vampire Hunter, her very appearance heralds change for good or ill.

Whether he marches with heralds of his glory, or stalks unknown through the shadows, he is awaited and expected when he arrives, even if those he seeks never knew they were waiting.

Wildroses said:

I decided to replay the main quest for the second time ever, and this phrase kept cropping up.

Now, when I hear a phrase like that, it sounds like a fancy way of saying: "going to die heroically." But seeing as you survive the main storyline, perhaps it does not mean what I think it means.

Those who know Elder Scroll lore better than I, is doom a word which means something specific? Or something slightly different to what I would use the word doom?

Or is the phrase doom driven hero supposed to refer to the fact that intrigue, violence and chaos inevitably follows the Dovahkiin wherever they go? All you have to do is poke your nose into a new town and all sorts of hideous things with far reaching consequences happen.

Here are is the exact dialogue I remember the phrase doom driven hero or just doom being used:

Paarthurnax said this the first time you rock up with the Elder Scroll:

"You have it. The Kel - the Elder Scroll. Tiid kreh... qalos. Time shudders at its touch. There is no question. You are doom-driven. Kogaan Akatosh. The very bones of the earth are at your disposal. Go then. Fulfill your destiny. Take the Scroll to the Time-Wound. Do not delay. Alduin will be coming. He cannot miss the signs."

Tsun when you claim entry to the Hall of Valor by right of birth (Dragonborn) he says: "Ah! It's been too long since last I faced a doom-driven hero of the dragon blood". He also said, when told you pursue Alduin the world eater: "A fateful errand. No few have chafed to face the Worm since first he set his soul-snare here at Sovngarde's threshold. But Shor restrained our wrathful onslaught - perhaps, deep counselled, your doom he foresaw."

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From me personally, I think it means multiple things. I think it's talking about the Dragonborn's fate, as this is what's driving him without knowing, but also destruction, considering you are stepping up to the plate to fight Alduin.

Since doom can mean fate, death, ruin, judgement (more on the negative side), Last Judgement (end of time with religion and all that), and also obsolete. So out of those, Dragonborn fits fate and judgement (as his actions will surely be judged by the Graybeards and whoever else), he could also even fit the Last Judgement because if he fails that could be the end of Skyrim completely.

That's what I make of it, don't really see any other way it could go unless you have an idea. It's definitely not his death, but Alduin's.

Edit: Just thought about another thing. Doom could also refer to the fact that the Dragonborn will have to kill Alduin. While he will be a hero, blood will be on his hands, so he is doomed to be doomed, so to speak. He must kill to fulfill his fate, even though he will be considered to be a hero.

2doom transitive verb
: to make (someone or something) certain to fail, suffer, die, etc.
Full Definition of DOOM

1
: to give judgment against : condemn
2
a : to fix the fate of : destine <felt he was doomed to a life of loneliness>
b : to make certain the failure or destruction of <the scandal doomed her chances for election>
Examples of DOOM

A criminal record will doom your chances of becoming a politician.
<had always felt that he was doomed to remain single forever>
First Known Use of DOOM

15th century

Being that the Skyrim is so heavily tied to Norse myth/culture/etc, the dialogue and writing tend to borrow extensively from Norse sagas. "Doom" is a concept that figures greatly in much of this kind of writing, almost like other cultures refer to one's 'destiny' or purpose.

For example, "Fear not death, for the hour of your doom is set and none may escape it" is an often-quoted line from the Saga of the Volsungs. It expresses the idea that everyone's life has a finite end, and in the case of a hero, is wrapped up in violence and danger and heroic exploits. It also reminds us that the Norns have the threads of everyone's lives intricately entwined and know the length of each, and cut them when the time has come to end that life.

It's references like this that reinforce the 'classical' Norse feeling that the developers were striving for, I think. And, I'd highly recommend getting a copy of Saga of the Volsungs or the Complete Sagas of the Icelanders, or the Elder Edda (Prose Edda) for some really interesting Norse heroic reading if you have the time

I've heard those are pretty good. Do they have some accuracy of the period and how life was? I enjoy Louis L 'Amour, "The Walking Drum". It's not a Nordic tale, it is an accurate (yet fictional) tale of how it was to live in those day's when one's honor was his word and his sword. The Sakett series is good too, how it was when England made it's way to this country.

Both the Saga of the Volsungs and the Icelanders Sagas are (were) written in the stylized prose of their era, so it tends to follow a sort of traditional style; sections broken into sets of stanzas, etc.. It might remind you of a bit like Shakespeare perhaps. They can be admittedly a little dense to read, but I found that they require a slow approach so as not to get overwhelmed by the style and frankly, all the names of people and places!

The Volsungs Saga is from the 12th or 13th century (I forget which) and details the clan history of the Volsungs, especially the well-known Sigurd the Dragon Slayer and his love, the valkyrie Brynhildr ("Brunhilde" or "Brunhilda", etc).

The Icelanders can vary by publisher/translator but is generally a collection of different sagas of famous people and/or their clans. Probably the best known would be Egil Skallagrimsson, who was simply a bad-ass poet/berserker warrior, ran afoul of the King of Norway, adventured through England, and amassed great wealth and respect.

Are they available through iBooks?

JClarke1953 said:

Are they available through iBooks?

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I'm not overly familiar w/ iBook but I found these just by searching for the titles; hope this helps!

Saga of the Volsungs iBook

selection of tales from the Prose Edda iBook

Same as iTunes, more or less. Thanks for the link, and I'll check iBooks as well.

I'm not sure how many know of this. But there were female warrior's "back in the day", very strong and very good. And extreme as anything! Why? Because if they were "well-endowed", they would literally cut off the right breast because it was in the way of the swing of their sword arm.

Not entirely sure that's true -the breast thing, that is. A number of scholars claim that the Amazons from Greek legend did this so as to better shoot bows or throw javelins or somesuch, but Amazons were popular images for Greek art and their depictions don't bear this out. Probably the result of a folk etymology.

I've yet to see any recent and reputable sources claim that this practice was ever institutionalized for female warriors of any ethnicity. Removal of breasts almost always stems from health issues or religion, as in the Skoptsy sect of Imperial Russia.

Aside from that, it's pretty well established that female warriors have popped up quite often in a number of cultures. They usually tend to be pretty well celebrated and renowned for skill, since the less talented ones would just die and be forgotten.

Yes from what I remember, the 'breast issue' points to an early mention by Hippocrates of the removal of the (right) breast by some "Amazons" (were they a spur of Scythians? I can't recall the culture exactly, but most probably originating in Asia Minor); this usually occurred at a very young age, and was supposedly done by cauterization. The word 'amazoi' I think is loosely translated as 'breastless' and I think makes your statement about a (mythologized) folk etymology pretty likely.

And you're right, it is always odd that the artwork/statuary depicting 'Amazons' does not include this rather prominent feature! The concept of a very strong female who undergoes a radical disfigurement to improve her battle prowess definitely speaks to a lot of mythological archetypes and does explain why it has persisted for so very long in popular culture references.

Most likely refers to the prophecy of the Dragonborn, being Doom-Driven. Much like Emperor Tiber Septim who was also driven towards his destiny and fate. You're being pushed towards your fate, being driven towards the doom.

Your path differs from most. You are being guided, pushed towards something. - Augur of Dunlain

I did some reading of women and battle's yesterday. There was something about armor and the female form, and how difficult it would have been to make. There was a safety issue as well because of how the breastplate would have had to been made.

Obviously in those day's, women had the same problems with battle gear as do women in these times. Movement in the armor would have been difficult, as the female form moves differently in walking/running as does the male form. And the fighting movements would also have been different.

I wonder if this is why in Spartacus (I know it was just a series. Yet they did attempt to be accurate I believe), why the men wore some kind of armor (hide, leather, iron or steel), while the women just wore what they wore for more freedom of movement in fighting (Saxa is the main one I think of).