Are the Thalmor really that bad?

DrunkenMage said:

Jeremy Stone said:

again, Thalmor are just likely blowing hot air and are nothing in the grand scheme of Skyrim.

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Except they are a major part in the grand scheme of Skyrim and future TES games/lore. So that kind of contradicts what you're saying.

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for one quest? that is definitely in the grand scheme of Skyrim the game.

Jeremy Stone said:

for one quest? that is definitely in the grand scheme of Skyrim the game.

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If you believe the Thalmor are a minor thing in Fourth Era TES, then I won't even bother. You have been given example after example, yet you refuse it for a better RP or dismiss it because it isn't "True lore" in your mind.

DrunkenMage said: ↑

Jeremy Stone said: ↑​

again, Thalmor are just likely blowing hot air and are nothing in the grand scheme of Skyrim.​

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Except they are a major part in the grand scheme of Skyrim and future TES games/lore. So that kind of contradicts what you're saying.

for one quest? that is definitely in the grand scheme of Skyrim the game.

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I fail to understand what is so hard about this. Elves think in long terms and live very long lives. The Empire can fix itself in the short term by stopping Ulfric, but if anything hurts the Empire it will be what happens in the long term. Many different rulers and possibly a few new Emperors. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Thalmor are the same person yesterday, today, tomorrow... Same damn people from hundreds of years ago walking the same path. Meanwhile, the Empire will change with each Emperor, sometimes considerably, other times it's not noticeable.

Quests in Skyrim are irrelevant to this fact. Some of those quests in Skyrim weren't even fully completed, Civil War included. Skyrim itslef, to me, feels like it's not complete. Like it was supposed to be something greater and then they panicked and just rounded everything off, called it 'finished'. Doesn't make it a bad game at all, but I wouldn't invest to much consideration into the Quests themselves.

Just look at all the time the Thalmor waited from the time of Titus Mede I to start the Great War. They're patient, methodical... resentful... goal minded which makes them successful... the worst kind of enemy anyone could ever hope to have.

I hate how arrogant they are when you pass them. Usually, if they have a prisoner I kill them and set the prisoner free.

Pete said:

May not be the Thalmor per se, but that fact that the elves are constantly attacking the humans through-out history. The oldest weapons in Skyrim are especially designed to kill them; like Wuuthrad. Those familiar with the mage quest line will understand.

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I'd say it's vice versa, the humans attacked the elves first, when they invaded the continent, the Nords destroyed the Snow Elves more or less, and fought the Dunmer and Dwemer up north for millenia.

And yeas the Snow Elves were the ones to initially engage the ancient Nords, destroying Saarthal, but how would you act if a race of hostiles invade your land, claim it as their own, set their cities up, disrupting your own culture, and in the process try remaining friends with you?

(It's all about perspective)

Not a huge history buff (especially about a video game) but I don't really care what they're trying to do. They're arrogant pompous and cruel. I despise them for what they are and eliminate them every chance I get. A quick side note has anyone ever gotten a DB quest to take out a Thalmor?

Nephor The Shadow Stalker said:

Not a huge history buff (especially about a video game) but I don't really care what they're trying to do. They're arrogant pompous and cruel. I despise them for what they are and eliminate them every chance I get. A quick side note has anyone ever gotten a DB quest to take out a Thalmor?

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Probably is some mod for that, vanilla you can't get that.

Jo'rak Vandeni said:

I'd say it's vice versa, the humans attacked the elves first, when they invaded the continent, the Nords destroyed the Snow Elves more or less, and fought the Dunmer and Dwemer up north for millenia.

And yeas the Snow Elves were the ones to initially engage the ancient Nords, destroying Saarthal, but how would you act if a race of hostiles invade your land, claim it as their own, set their cities up, disrupting your own culture, and in the process try remaining friends with you?

(It's all about perspective)

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I could be wrong, and I'd have to look, but I'm pretty sure the Nords didn't arrive on Tamriel as invaders and didn't disrupt the Snow Elves' culture, the racial tensions came later. They lived peacefully until the Night of Tears at Saarthal, after which they left until Ysgramor returned.

The OP3RaT0R said:

Jo'rak Vandeni said:

I'd say it's vice versa, the humans attacked the elves first, when they invaded the continent, the Nords destroyed the Snow Elves more or less, and fought the Dunmer and Dwemer up north for millenia.

And yeas the Snow Elves were the ones to initially engage the ancient Nords, destroying Saarthal, but how would you act if a race of hostiles invade your land, claim it as their own, set their cities up, disrupting your own culture, and in the process try remaining friends with you?

(It's all about perspective)

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I could be wrong, and I'd have to look, but I'm pretty sure the Nords didn't arrive on Tamriel as invaders and didn't disrupt the Snow Elves' culture, the racial tensions came later. They lived peacefully until the Night of Tears at Saarthal, after which they left until Ysgramor returned.

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Saartal was destroyed by Snow Elves because the Nords were growing too uncontrollably in "Skyrim", which was the land of Snow Elves and Dwemer, not the Nord occupants.

Use England as an example, the Scots, Irish and Welsh weren't too happy when the Normans from France came and took charge of Brittania, I know I would have done as the Snow Elves in their situation, I'd get the first strike and get my land for my own again.

I don't mind the Aldmeri Dominion, let them have what Tiber Septim took from them. But that part about taking over all of Tamriel and enslaving mankind makes it evil, even more so when the purges were revealed. Anyone who isn't a High Elf from Alinor is threatened by it, or rather by the Thalmor ruling it. This Aldmeri Dominion is much much different from the old one. Sure, they attacked all the time as well, but only a few border skirmishes, not whole invasions. Right now it feels more like Ayleid 2.0 for me. Bad. Evil. Insane. There are plenty of words to describe my thoughts about those guys from the south.

The OP3RaT0R said:

I could be wrong, and I'd have to look, but I'm pretty sure the Nords didn't arrive on Tamriel as invaders and didn't disrupt the Snow Elves' culture, the racial tensions came later. They lived peacefully until the Night of Tears at Saarthal, after which they left until Ysgramor returned.

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It's not possible to say what caused the attack on Saarthal. Gelebor said that they always had an "uneasy alliance", that could have plenty of reasons. Minor attacks from Nord racists (this is NOT a hint to Ulfric or anything connected to the CW in Skyrim in the 4th Era, every race has some racism to itself which is fine as long as they don't start murdering) up to hunting grounds being claimed or hunted-empty which could be a catastrophe in a land like Skyrim.
All we know is that there was tension right up since the very beginning. Whether it was just an overreaction from the Elves feeling threatened by the growing numbers of humanity in their neighbourhood or not is left for Bethesda to say.

I believe Saarthal and the Night of Tears had something to do with the Eye of Magnus, that the Nords discovered.

Rimfaxe96 said:

It's not possible to say what caused the attack on Saarthal. Gelebor said that they always had an "uneasy alliance", that could have plenty of reasons. Minor attacks from Nord racists (this is NOT a hint to Ulfric or anything connected to the CW in Skyrim in the 4th Era, every race has some racism to itself which is fine as long as they don't start murdering) up to hunting grounds being claimed or hunted-empty which could be a catastrophe in a land like Skyrim.
All we know is that there was tension right up since the very beginning. Whether it was just an overreaction from the Elves feeling threatened by the growing numbers of humanity in their neighbourhood or not is left for Bethesda to say.

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We were once a wealthy and prosperous society that occupied a portion of Skyrim. Unfortunately, we were constantly at war with the Nords who claimed the land as their ancestral home."

The Nords claimed Skyrim was theirs by right. I don't believe they ever actually got along, but it was more historians putting the Snow Elves as the aggressors. Bethesda tends to do that with much of their history lore. You will find many are biased.

DrunkenMage said:

The Nords claimed Skyrim was theirs by right. I don't believe they ever actually got along, but it was more historians putting the Snow Elves as the aggressors. Bethesda tends to do that with much of their history lore. You will find many are biased.

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I'd say that's a logical consequence at some point. There were no Snow Elf historians left that could have told the story from their point of view, and if there ever was a Nord historian who wrote positively about them I suspect he lost his hands to do so in time.

*yawn* I seriously don't give a crap what they do anymore lol I follow this one rule.... "Don't mess with me... and I won't mess with you" however if I see those sick mofos charging after me... I'm breaking out the sword to defend myself

XIIGenocide said:

A thought just crossed my mind earlier, and well here we are.

Are the Thalmor and Aldmeri really that bad? I was thinking about it and aren't they just making a bid for power? Not unlike the one that Tiber Septim made when he was conquering Tamriel? How is that different to what the Aldmeri Dominion is doing or are trying to do?

Just a thought.

Opinions?

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I "bait" them when I see them on the road with or without a prisoner. When they declare they are superior to humans, and then when I declare I'll worship Talos, it's ON! And what's better, no bounty if I make sure they start the fight. And at the Embassy? Lol!

But I digress from the question you ask. I believe they are "evil" in the sense they are forcing their belief system onto the people of Skyrim. And that they have an enormous superiority complex, thinking they are "higher" than humans.

Also, the fact that they take people who worship Talos to "question" them. Reminds me of the history of the Spanish Inquisitions, the methods used to make people "confess".

Frankly, if one observes the Thalmor, listens to them about their view of humans and Talos, it seems almost a parallel of the times now.

Perhaps not so severe in the U.S., however in other countries, certain beliefs are being hunted and attempts made at "eliminating" those who believe as well as the belief/faith.

JClarke1953 said:

XIIGenocide said:

A thought just crossed my mind earlier, and well here we are.

Are the Thalmor and Aldmeri really that bad? I was thinking about it and aren't they just making a bid for power? Not unlike the one that Tiber Septim made when he was conquering Tamriel? How is that different to what the Aldmeri Dominion is doing or are trying to do?

Just a thought.

Opinions?

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I "bait" them when I see them on the road with or without a prisoner. When they declare they are superior to humans, and then when I declare I'll worship Talos, it's ON! And what's better, no bounty if I make sure they start the fight. And at the Embassy? Lol!

But I digress from the question you ask. I believe they are "evil" in the sense they are forcing their belief system onto the people of Skyrim. And that they have an enormous superiority complex, thinking they are "higher" than humans.

Also, the fact that they take people who worship Talos to "question" them. Reminds me of the history of the Spanish Inquisitions, the methods used to make people "confess".

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Now this is very interesting, I focus mostly on this part: "But I digress from the question you ask. I believe they are "evil" in the sense they are forcing their belief system onto the people of Skyrim. And that they have an enormous superiority complex, thinking they are "higher" than humans."
What other race and religion did the same thing on Earth just 200 years ago and in some nations still do? Think about that

Precisely! Yet we need to keep in mind that kind of persecution went on before, and continues to this day. Perhaps not so much religious persecution (except in other countries), but other kinds of "persecution" are becoming "popular"?

JClarke1953 said:

Precisely! Yet we need to keep in mind that kind of persecution went on before, and continues to this day. Perhaps not so much religious persecution (except in other countries), but other kinds of "persecution" are becoming "popular"?

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I lived three years in Botswana, southern Africa, and I know the persecution is still active, just changed in ways, the american pastors and preachers were idolized more than the God they came to preach about, and those who did not believe in "God" (The preachers and pastors more like it) were not accepted as others were, my sister is an atheist, and when she said she was to her South african friend, the friend actually cried and begged her to become christian or they could not be friends, which today they are not at all.

The persecution is still there, we just don't kill the "pagans" and "heretics" anymore, we just outcast them.

(Out of topic from the THalmor, sorry about that)

No problem, I didn't think it was that far removed from the Thalmor, as for them as well, it's one or the other. No common ground, no where to meet with the mind.

Sorry about your Sis and her former friend. In my opinion, her friend was wrong to discontinue the friendship. I wasn't there of course, but from my understanding and experience, keeping the friendship would have been more "Christian" than discontinuing it.

We, no one really knows. As was said in Life of Pi, "we only know the God we're introduced to". Your Sister's former friend may well have been the one to do that, not by words, but by actions. And even if your Sister never believes, who knows what the friendship may have done in both of their lives?

That's just my own perspective.