Brunwulf vs Ulfric

Now I'm not a stormcloak (I generally avoid the civil war) however I have noticed in every CW argument he is quoted as evidence against Ulfric.

Now I know this may spark controversy but has it ever been explored that Brunwulf is actually just making the whole "Ulfric never suppports non-Nord caravans/travellers" thing up as a political jibe at Ulfric, he is the only person to mention it after all.

I mean if you think about who leads Windhelm after an Imperial victory surely then it seems a legit move, I think honestly Ulfric has a lot on his plate with the war and can barely afford resources to hunt a murderer down nevermind refurbish an entire section of the city to people that whilst being his responsibility don't support him.

Then you have to think is Brunwulf actually a true friend to Dunmer or his he using his popularity within the gray-quarter as a rallying cry to try and paint Ulfric in a bad light, I mean there isn't any evidence that once he takes over he has actually begun construction and rebuilding. (though that may be due to the game).

Another thing is that so many Nords are infatuated with Ulfric and throughout TES lore its oft commented on how good a judge of character Nords actually are.

This is just my opinion after reading so many arguments over Ulfric and whether he is good or bad, so what are your thoughts?

I don't tend to get involved in this discussion line, but.

Ulfric is human and flawed like the rest of us, and he is struggling with his role and his ideals, as witnessed in his philosophical debates in the Palace of the Kings. Should we expect perfection of our leaders? Well, good luck with that. True for both sides of this conflict, assured, that imperfections are equally as easily discerned. That being so, we could look to the "greater good" in the war . What is best for Skyrim? I've played both sides of this war. Either way, you feel bad at the outcome. But I felt worse when I discovered what happens when the Imperials win. Corrupt Maven Black-Briar becomes Jarl of Riften. Siddgeir remains Jarl of Falkreath. The Silverbloods tighten their greedy grip on Markarth. Life goes on, but we march a solid step backwards from that which is good and fair for the people. Isn't that how despotism takes its hold, one step at a time? Aren't the Thalmor just one step closer to total domination? So I'll take Ulfric, with all his flaws, even though the final assault on Windhelm is MUCH more entertaining and challenging than the final assault on Solitude.

Oh, and I may have had a different opinion had we had to make our way all the way to the Blue Palace and take out all those self-absorbed thanes along the way.

Is it possible to take Stormcloak side and get away with killing those Thalmor in Markarth ? I never tried but would like to kill that Wizard and his body guards . I have Bosmer thief and high sneak and bow damage so a few arrows from the shadows ....Hmmmm Any input from any one who has tried this ??? Thanks

Atz said:

Is it possible to take Stormcloak side and get away with killing those Thalmor in Markarth ? I never tried but would like to kill that Wizard and his body guards . I have Bosmer thief and high sneak and bow damage so a few arrows from the shadows ....Hmmmm Any input from any one who has tried this ??? Thanks

Click to expand...

Killing those who are aiding the Stormcloaks and who turned up in Helgen to save Ulfric?



But in all seriousness, it becomes even harder in Stormcloak Markarth. Cause the Thalmor are getting cozy with the Stormcloak officer who never leaves the room.

DrunkenMage said:

Atz said:

Is it possible to take Stormcloak side and get away with killing those Thalmor in Markarth ? I never tried but would like to kill that Wizard and his body guards . I have Bosmer thief and high sneak and bow damage so a few arrows from the shadows ....Hmmmm Any input from any one who has tried this ??? Thanks

Click to expand...

Killing those who are aiding the Stormcloaks and who turned up in Helgen to save Ulfric?

But in all seriousness, it becomes even harder in Stormcloak Markarth. Cause the Thalmor are getting cozy with the Stormcloak officer who never leaves the room.

Click to expand...

Thanks for input >> The Thalmor were in Helgen ? , I must have missed that . The Stormcloak in Markarth , must be in that locked room in the palace , I'll check that out . According to your post the Thalmor must be playing both sides against the other . I really , really , dislike the Thalmor . I always take the Legion side so have never done Stormcloak C.W.

Though I can't say too much on this topic as I've not found it in me to do the imperial questline and kill both Galmar and Ulfric, I will say, judging from the Missing In Action quest in Whiterun, that the imperials seem much more cruel and corrupt than Ulfric. But to give my thoughts on Brunwulf/Ulfric, Ulfric has a war to worry about. Brunwulf doesn't so of course he will find time think about renovations in the Gray Quarter way before Ulfric would. He's even said so himself that he doesn't have the time to think about the Gray Quarter. That's understandable, a bit flawed, but no one is perfect as ColleenG said.

Ulfric seems to genuinely care about his followers/soldiers. Brunwulf, I don't know so much about. He's always made his concerns about the gray quarter known, but has he ever referred to the Dunmer as his "brothers/sisters"? No. But he does take stabs at Ulfric for his supposed racisim so it would seem like Brunwulf is trying to take Ulfric down a few notches, though it doesn't seem to me like he's doing it for "the throne". That's just my thoughts.

Atz said:

DrunkenMage said:

Atz said:

Is it possible to take Stormcloak side and get away with killing those Thalmor in Markarth ? I never tried but would like to kill that Wizard and his body guards . I have Bosmer thief and high sneak and bow damage so a few arrows from the shadows ....Hmmmm Any input from any one who has tried this ??? Thanks

Click to expand...

Killing those who are aiding the Stormcloaks and who turned up in Helgen to save Ulfric?

But in all seriousness, it becomes even harder in Stormcloak Markarth. Cause the Thalmor are getting cozy with the Stormcloak officer who never leaves the room.

Click to expand...

Thanks for input >> The Thalmor were in Helgen ? , I must have missed that . The Stormcloak in Markarth , must be in that locked room in the palace , I'll check that out . According to your post the Thalmor must be playing both sides against the other . I really , really , dislike the Thalmor . I always take the Legion side so have never done Stormcloak C.W.

Click to expand...

K- I went in to the locked room in Markarth and talked to the Stormcloak .... He only engages you in trying to get you to join the Stormcloak side ...right in front of the Thalmor??? What's up with that ??? Not one comment or objection from the Thalmor . He actually makes the remark that ALL ELVES in Sky Rim need to be wiped out , WELL I'm a Bosmer so I will again take the Empire's side .

Atz said:

Atz said:

DrunkenMage said:

Killing those who are aiding the Stormcloaks and who turned up in Helgen to save Ulfric?

But in all seriousness, it becomes even harder in Stormcloak Markarth. Cause the Thalmor are getting cozy with the Stormcloak officer who never leaves the room.

Click to expand...

Thanks for input >> The Thalmor were in Helgen ? , I must have missed that . The Stormcloak in Markarth , must be in that locked room in the palace , I'll check that out . According to your post the Thalmor must be playing both sides against the other . I really , really , dislike the Thalmor . I always take the Legion side so have never done Stormcloak C.W.

Click to expand...

K- I went in to the locked room in Markarth and talked to the Stormcloak .... He only engages you in trying to get you to join the Stormcloak side ...right in front of the Thalmor??? What's up with that ??? Not one comment or objection from the Thalmor . He actually makes the remark that ALL ELVES in Sky Rim need to be wiped out , WELL I'm a Bosmer so I will again take the Empire's side .

Click to expand...

DrunkenMage´s net is not working, and he asked me to reply for him (we're friends)

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak
This document is located in the Thalmor Embassy during the questline "Diplomatic Immunity".

Anouck said:

Atz said:

Atz said:

Thanks for input >> The Thalmor were in Helgen ? , I must have missed that . The Stormcloak in Markarth , must be in that locked room in the palace , I'll check that out . According to your post the Thalmor must be playing both sides against the other . I really , really , dislike the Thalmor . I always take the Legion side so have never done Stormcloak C.W.

Click to expand...

K- I went in to the locked room in Markarth and talked to the Stormcloak .... He only engages you in trying to get you to join the Stormcloak side ...right in front of the Thalmor??? What's up with that ??? Not one comment or objection from the Thalmor . He actually makes the remark that ALL ELVES in Sky Rim need to be wiped out , WELL I'm a Bosmer so I will again take the Empire's side .

Click to expand...

DrunkenMage´s net is not working, and he asked me to reply for him (we're friends)

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak
This document is located in the Thalmor Embassy during the questline "Diplomatic Immunity".

Click to expand...

Thanks for link ... This S.R . story is way over my head .

Atz said:

Is it possible to take Stormcloak side and get away with killing those Thalmor in Markarth ? I never tried but would like to kill that Wizard and his body guards . I have Bosmer thief and high sneak and bow damage so a few arrows from the shadows ....Hmmmm Any input from any one who has tried this ??? Thanks

Click to expand...

You have to take a side to kill the Thalmor in Markarth? I usually at least try to kill them on general principal, even if the entire town gets mad at me. I just hate them SOOOOOO much!

Ulfric would be like...


and then thu'umed that old man to the oblivion.

I feel both of them are idiots and thus it does not matter who is better.

Well it's more the fact that the countless arguments on forums use Brunwulf's dialogue as evidence and surely he isn't a credible source due to being Ulfric's direct competitor for control of Windhelm