PS3 Playing a Good Character (?)

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Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
The Dark Brotherhood would keep on killing people for a long time. If the murder of one old woman who makes children live horrible lives means no more Dark Brotherhood then I think its worth it.
True, true, but I guess I'm not sure on my characters total moral makeup. Do the ends justify the means or is she more concerned with the means. The TG will keep on stealing stuff that people worked hard to get (I know, not always, but still) whether I do anything with them or not, so, what difference does a few murders make, especially since I'm murdering hundreds of bandits, foreswarn, mages and Stormcloaks on a regular basis but justifying it as "they are bad guys" or in the cause of the war.

It gets really murky. Besides, how do we really know their lives are that horrible? Because they say so? At least they're housed, clothed and fed, which is more than I can say for my little Lucia before she met me and any number of other street kids I met during the course of the game. A little slave labor makes them earn their keep. Besides, if she was that bad then the authorities would have done something, right? Maven may be a not nice person, but I can't see, even her putting up with the abuse of children. Where's the profit in that?


You do know that they have a bad life because 1: When you kill Grelod they are all really happy and they say thank you. 2: When you go into the orphanage you hear Grelod mistreating them.
No one can go their whole life without doing anything bad, so the bad thing you do may as well be to have a good ending. And if you think about it killing bandits and Forsworn is kind of bad. Who are you to judge whether they should live or die? Maybe the bandit was really poor and needed food and gold. When the Forsworn ruled Markarth they were fair rulers, everyone liked them. When Ulfric conquered them he had to execute most of the citizens too because they supported the Forsworn.
1) Of course they're happy, they were whining about mistreatment in the first place (which I did not see). It's not like killing isn't the way to solve most problems in Skyrim (or at least it seems that way).
2) I've been to the orphanage and frankly, she isn't mistreating them any more than my own mother did my brother and me. So she's nasty and threatening. I did not witness her beating them, poisoning them or using them as sex slaves. She just didn't "talk nice". So what. That's not abuse to me. Poor babies, so she doesn't treat you all sweet and loving - hey, you're orphans and she's supporting you with no visible funding. WAAAAH... PHBBBT...
3) Absolutely agree about the Foreswarn, but the bandits are bad - another example of thievery being bad. Besides, if they were so innocent, what's with the dead bodies all over the place at their pads? It is a shame how the whole Markarth thing worked out though.
 

LotusEater

I brake for blue butterflies
Yea good subject . The Bothia quest is far over the edge for me . I just went and Killed them all . Now I have to forever look at this in my quest log . And the other was the cannibel quest in Markarth , I go in to the Hall of the dead and waste her . I have never liked the D.B. Quest , so now I just do away with them , but the Thieves Guild I'm not really sure??? I tried to kill "Vekel the Man" ( who owns the Ragged Flagon and is the bartender ) And he's one of those in game " sleeper" kind of character's ..... He can't be killed on console X-Box , he is a tough deadly" BLEEP " and I ended up running clear out of Riften to save my life :cowboy:



I always squirm a little during that Boethiah quest. But I do love me some Ebony Mail so Lydia is always on thin ice. But ya, that quest feels dirty.
 

LotusEater

I brake for blue butterflies
True, true, but I guess I'm not sure on my characters total moral makeup. Do the ends justify the means or is she more concerned with the means. The TG will keep on stealing stuff that people worked hard to get (I know, not always, but still) whether I do anything with them or not, so, what difference does a few murders make, especially since I'm murdering hundreds of bandits, foreswarn, mages and Stormcloaks on a regular basis but justifying it as "they are bad guys" or in the cause of the war.

It gets really murky. Besides, how do we really know their lives are that horrible? Because they say so? At least they're housed, clothed and fed, which is more than I can say for my little Lucia before she met me and any number of other street kids I met during the course of the game. A little slave labor makes them earn their keep. Besides, if she was that bad then the authorities would have done something, right? Maven may be a not nice person, but I can't see, even her putting up with the abuse of children. Where's the profit in that?


You do know that they have a bad life because 1: When you kill Grelod they are all really happy and they say thank you. 2: When you go into the orphanage you hear Grelod mistreating them.
No one can go their whole life without doing anything bad, so the bad thing you do may as well be to have a good ending. And if you think about it killing bandits and Forsworn is kind of bad. Who are you to judge whether they should live or die? Maybe the bandit was really poor and needed food and gold. When the Forsworn ruled Markarth they were fair rulers, everyone liked them. When Ulfric conquered them he had to execute most of the citizens too because they supported the Forsworn.
1) Of course they're happy, they were whining about mistreatment in the first place (which I did not see). It's not like killing isn't the way to solve most problems in Skyrim (or at least it seems that way).
2) I've been to the orphanage and frankly, she isn't mistreating them any more than my own mother did my brother and me. So she's nasty and threatening. I did not witness her beating them, poisoning them or using them as sex slaves. She just didn't "talk nice". So what. That's not abuse to me. Poor babies, so she doesn't treat you all sweet and loving - hey, you're orphans and she's supporting you with no visible funding. WAAAAH... PHBBBT...
3) Absolutely agree about the Foreswarn, but the bandits are bad - another example of thievery being bad. Besides, if they were so innocent, what's with the dead bodies all over the place at their pads? It is a shame how the whole Markarth thing worked out though.



She drove a child insane to the point that he was driving a dagger into the floor and chanting... just saying. And her dialogue makes it clear that she is not a good caregiver for wayward/lost/orphaned children. Enough evidence for me, she dies. Or more accurately, a one-way trip to the Soul Cairn for her.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Yea good subject . The Bothia quest is far over the edge for me . I just went and Killed them all . Now I have to forever look at this in my quest log . And the other was the cannibel quest in Markarth , I go in to the Hall of the dead and waste her . I have never liked the D.B. Quest , so now I just do away with them , but the Thieves Guild I'm not really sure??? I tried to kill "Vekel the Man" ( who owns the Ragged Flagon and is the bartender ) And he's one of those in game " sleeper" kind of character's ..... He can't be killed on console X-Box , he is a tough deadly" BLEEP " and I ended up running clear out of Riften to save my life :cowboy:



I always squirm a little during that Boethiah quest. But I do love me some Ebony Mail so Lydia is always on thin ice. But ya, that quest feels dirty.
I luv the armor too, but no go this time through. I'll save it for my nasty dark elf Asajj or my Argonian Bah'meht
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
You do know that they have a bad life because 1: When you kill Grelod they are all really happy and they say thank you. 2: When you go into the orphanage you hear Grelod mistreating them.
No one can go their whole life without doing anything bad, so the bad thing you do may as well be to have a good ending. And if you think about it killing bandits and Forsworn is kind of bad. Who are you to judge whether they should live or die? Maybe the bandit was really poor and needed food and gold. When the Forsworn ruled Markarth they were fair rulers, everyone liked them. When Ulfric conquered them he had to execute most of the citizens too because they supported the Forsworn.
1) Of course they're happy, they were whining about mistreatment in the first place (which I did not see). It's not like killing isn't the way to solve most problems in Skyrim (or at least it seems that way).
2) I've been to the orphanage and frankly, she isn't mistreating them any more than my own mother did my brother and me. So she's nasty and threatening. I did not witness her beating them, poisoning them or using them as sex slaves. She just didn't "talk nice". So what. That's not abuse to me. Poor babies, so she doesn't treat you all sweet and loving - hey, you're orphans and she's supporting you with no visible funding. WAAAAH... PHBBBT...
3) Absolutely agree about the Foreswarn, but the bandits are bad - another example of thievery being bad. Besides, if they were so innocent, what's with the dead bodies all over the place at their pads? It is a shame how the whole Markarth thing worked out though.



She drove a child insane to the point that he was driving a dagger into the floor and chanting... just saying. And her dialogue makes it clear that she is not a good caregiver for wayward/lost/orphaned children. Enough evidence for me, she dies. Or more accurately, a one-way trip to the Soul Cairn for her.
Not convincing to me. The kid is screwed up because his parents were killed in the first place and, my kid Lucia does some pretty sick stuff too and she's housed and loved. Kids are vindictive little currs even in our world. I guess I just don't trust that they're actually being realistic. Most of the kids in Skyrim are total a**holes in any case, so why are these all that different. Greold lives and the kids can just lump it. Funny, but we meet plenty of adults that grew up in the orphanage and we don't here them complaining about her, ever. She has been there a long time after all. Maybe it's just these brats.
 

LotusEater

I brake for blue butterflies
1) Of course they're happy, they were whining about mistreatment in the first place (which I did not see). It's not like killing isn't the way to solve most problems in Skyrim (or at least it seems that way).
2) I've been to the orphanage and frankly, she isn't mistreating them any more than my own mother did my brother and me. So she's nasty and threatening. I did not witness her beating them, poisoning them or using them as sex slaves. She just didn't "talk nice". So what. That's not abuse to me. Poor babies, so she doesn't treat you all sweet and loving - hey, you're orphans and she's supporting you with no visible funding. WAAAAH... PHBBBT...
3) Absolutely agree about the Foreswarn, but the bandits are bad - another example of thievery being bad. Besides, if they were so innocent, what's with the dead bodies all over the place at their pads? It is a shame how the whole Markarth thing worked out though.



She drove a child insane to the point that he was driving a dagger into the floor and chanting... just saying. And her dialogue makes it clear that she is not a good caregiver for wayward/lost/orphaned children. Enough evidence for me, she dies. Or more accurately, a one-way trip to the Soul Cairn for her.
Not convincing to me. The kid is screwed up because his parents were killed in the first place and, my kid Lucia does some pretty sick stuff too and she's housed and loved. Kids are vindictive little currs even in our world. I guess I just don't trust that they're actually being realistic. Most of the kids in Skyrim are total a**holes in any case, so why are these all that different. Greold lives and the kids can just lump it. Funny, but we meet plenty of adults that grew up in the orphanage and we don't here them complaining about her, ever. She has been there a long time after all. Maybe it's just these brats.


Well... I don't need much evidence in order to put an arrow in someones chest. But that's just me. :)
 

Olsthepols

Fus Ro Dah
But the fact that they were happy when she died means a lot
 

sticky runes

Well-Known Member
Funny, but we meet plenty of adults that grew up in the orphanage and we don't here them complaining about her, ever. She has been there a long time after all. Maybe it's just these brats.


Good point! If Grelod was that bad, you'd think some of her past charges would have gone into a life of banditry or assassination, and come back to get personal revenge on her. It's not like any of the Dark brotherhood or Thieves Guild members or any of the bandits we encounter in the wild mention growing up in the Honorhall Orphanarium.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
She drove a child insane to the point that he was driving a dagger into the floor and chanting... just saying. And her dialogue makes it clear that she is not a good caregiver for wayward/lost/orphaned children. Enough evidence for me, she dies. Or more accurately, a one-way trip to the Soul Cairn for her.
Not convincing to me. The kid is screwed up because his parents were killed in the first place and, my kid Lucia does some pretty sick stuff too and she's housed and loved. Kids are vindictive little currs even in our world. I guess I just don't trust that they're actually being realistic. Most of the kids in Skyrim are total a**holes in any case, so why are these all that different. Greold lives and the kids can just lump it. Funny, but we meet plenty of adults that grew up in the orphanage and we don't here them complaining about her, ever. She has been there a long time after all. Maybe it's just these brats.


Well... I don't need much evidence in order to put an arrow in someones chest. But that's just me. :)
That's me normally too, but I am trying something different. My first character just killed everything that tried to kill him or that he was told to kill. This one, my sweet Poloma, the Imperial temptress, I'm trying to actually RP.
 

LotusEater

I brake for blue butterflies
Good point! If Grelod was that bad, you'd think some of her past charges would have gone into a life of banditry or assassination, and come back to get personal revenge on her. It's not like any of the Dark brotherhood or Thieves Guild members or any of the bandits we encounter in the wild mention growing up in the Honorhall Orphanarium.



She's worse because she chose the path of least resistance... instead of a life of crime, she abuses wayward children.
 

LotusEater

I brake for blue butterflies
Not convincing to me. The kid is screwed up because his parents were killed in the first place and, my kid Lucia does some pretty sick stuff too and she's housed and loved. Kids are vindictive little currs even in our world. I guess I just don't trust that they're actually being realistic. Most of the kids in Skyrim are total a**holes in any case, so why are these all that different. Greold lives and the kids can just lump it. Funny, but we meet plenty of adults that grew up in the orphanage and we don't here them complaining about her, ever. She has been there a long time after all. Maybe it's just these brats.


Well... I don't need much evidence in order to put an arrow in someones chest. But that's just me. :)
That's me normally too, but I am trying something different. My first character just killed everything that tried to kill him or that he was told to kill. This one, my sweet Poloma, the Imperial temptress, I'm trying to actually RP.


I hear ya. I've tried the path of the pure myself. Best I could do was seclude myself in the Alchemist's Shack and play with the animals. Can't imagine trying to decipher what deed is good and what deed is bad in Skyrim. Good luck with that. ;)
 

The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
Staff member
Good point! If Grelod was that bad, you'd think some of her past charges would have gone into a life of banditry or assassination, and come back to get personal revenge on her. It's not like any of the Dark brotherhood or Thieves Guild members or any of the bandits we encounter in the wild mention growing up in the Honorhall Orphanarium.



She's worse because she chose the path of least resistance... instead of a life of crime, she abuses wayward children.
I would request that you show us clear evidence of abuse, please.
 

LotusEater

I brake for blue butterflies
Good point! If Grelod was that bad, you'd think some of her past charges would have gone into a life of banditry or assassination, and come back to get personal revenge on her. It's not like any of the Dark brotherhood or Thieves Guild members or any of the bandits we encounter in the wild mention growing up in the Honorhall Orphanarium.



She's worse because she chose the path of least resistance... instead of a life of crime, she abuses wayward children.
I would request that you show us clear evidence of abuse, please.



I'm just saying that just because she never took up a life of crime is no indication of her demeanor. She could just as easily be an evil coward. Are child abusers less evil because they don't rob gas stations?
 

The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
Staff member
She's worse because she chose the path of least resistance... instead of a life of crime, she abuses wayward children.
I would request that you show us clear evidence of abuse, please.



I'm just saying that just because she never took up a life of crime is no indication of her demeanor. She could just as easily be an evil coward.
She might abuse them verbally, but that does not make her wholly evil. Only strict, authoritarian, and mean.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Funny, but we meet plenty of adults that grew up in the orphanage and we don't here them complaining about her, ever. She has been there a long time after all. Maybe it's just these brats.


Good point! If Grelod was that bad, you'd think some of her past charges would have gone into a life of banditry or assassination, and come back to get personal revenge on her. It's not like any of the Dark brotherhood or Thieves Guild members or any of the bandits we encounter in the wild mention growing up in the Honorhall Orphanarium.
Actually, I think there are a few that do mention having grown up there (at least in the TG and one in the DB), but that's only like 3 and I'm sure she had way more than 3 charges. Hmmm... I wonder if there are any records so I can track down some folks.
 

LotusEater

I brake for blue butterflies
I would request that you show us clear evidence of abuse, please.



I'm just saying that just because she never took up a life of crime is no indication of her demeanor. She could just as easily be an evil coward.
She might abuse them verbally, but that does not make her wholly evil. Only strict, authoritarian, and mean.


Bottom line is we don't know what goes on when the door to the orphanage is locked. One thing I can say as a parent, the way she is talking to those kids when we sneak in is abusive and days and weeks and years of that kind of verbal abuse would create a legion of confused/abused children that will grow in to unadjusted adults. Not a bright future for the region of Skyrim. Elder Scrolls X: Rise of the Orphans
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
I'm just saying that just because she never took up a life of crime is no indication of her demeanor. She could just as easily be an evil coward.
She might abuse them verbally, but that does not make her wholly evil. Only strict, authoritarian, and mean.


Bottom line is we don't know what goes on when the door to the orphanage is locked. One thing I can say as a parent, the way she is talking to those kids when we sneak in is abusive and days and weeks and years of that kind of verbal abuse would create a legion of confused/abused children that will grow in to unadjusted adults. Not a bright future for the region of Skyrim. Elder Scrolls X: Rise of the Orphans
I hate to say this, but many people of my generation had parents like that (at least where I come from) and I know my other 1/2's parents were the same way. I guess we just accepted that we were not delicate little flowers and that adults are not here to make us feel all warm and cuddly. Behave, do as you're told and take your lumps as they come along. Sorry, but I just don't feel all that sorry for them unless they are physically or sexually abused. Life is tough. People are not nice. Get over it! These kids live in a tough environment as do our own children (and yes I have 2). Warm fuzzy's are fine, but, it's a tough world and the earlier you learn that people are not nice and that nothing is for free, the better off you are. Sorry, JMO.
 

LotusEater

I brake for blue butterflies
She might abuse them verbally, but that does not make her wholly evil. Only strict, authoritarian, and mean.


Bottom line is we don't know what goes on when the door to the orphanage is locked. One thing I can say as a parent, the way she is talking to those kids when we sneak in is abusive and days and weeks and years of that kind of verbal abuse would create a legion of confused/abused children that will grow in to unadjusted adults. Not a bright future for the region of Skyrim. Elder Scrolls X: Rise of the Orphans
I hate to say this, but many people of my generation had parents like that (at least where I come from) and I know my other 1/2's parents were the same way. I guess we just accepted that we were not delicate little flowers and that adults are not here to make us feel all warm and cuddly. Behave, do as you're told and take your lumps as they come along. Sorry, but I just don't feel all that sorry for them unless they are physically or sexually abused. Life is tough. People are not nice. Get over it! These kids live in a tough environment as do our own children (and yes I have 2). Warm fuzzy's are fine, but, it's a tough world and the earlier you learn that people are not nice and that nothing is for free, the better off you are. Sorry, JMO.



Skyrim children do live in a very rough environment. Made rougher by a b***h sending scarred orphans out into the world for the past X-amount of years. In fact, maybe she is responsible for more than we know.
 

The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
Staff member
She might abuse them verbally, but that does not make her wholly evil. Only strict, authoritarian, and mean.


Bottom line is we don't know what goes on when the door to the orphanage is locked. One thing I can say as a parent, the way she is talking to those kids when we sneak in is abusive and days and weeks and years of that kind of verbal abuse would create a legion of confused/abused children that will grow in to unadjusted adults. Not a bright future for the region of Skyrim. Elder Scrolls X: Rise of the Orphans
I hate to say this, but many people of my generation had parents like that (at least where I come from) and I know my other 1/2's parents were the same way. I guess we just accepted that we were not delicate little flowers and that adults are not here to make us feel all warm and cuddly. Behave, do as you're told and take your lumps as they come along. Sorry, but I just don't feel all that sorry for them unless they are physically or sexually abused. Life is tough. People are not nice. Get over it! These kids live in a tough environment as do our own children (and yes I have 2). Warm fuzzy's are fine, but, it's a tough world and the earlier you learn that people are not nice and that nothing is for free, the better off you are. Sorry, JMO.
I respect you for sharing that. Hope you don't get a lot of flak for it.
 

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