Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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Lunaruse

The Milkdrinking Elf

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
DrunkenMage
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'Thalmor'​
 

original_funk

Iron is coming
Honestly, I'm not surprised that the 'lesser races' are ignorant to the Thalmor and our mission. We only wish to improve quality of life and to save Tamriel from the darkness that is man, in essence, to save man from himself. All throughout man's history he has created chaos and drenched the continent in blood, dragging both himself, his neighbors and us down with him. The Thalmor exist to bring order to the nations of man, putting an end to the chaos he has caused in Tamriel! In short: To put things back to right. Even if that means a Second Great War.
The only thing I'm ignorant about is your personal headcanon which holds no interest for me. My interest is in the real lore and canon of the Elder Scrolls universe. The only headcanon that interests me is Michael Kirkbride's and his headcanon of what the Thalmor are about is nothing like yours.

I'm not quite sure that Nanalata's posts are headcanon, rather role-playing as a Thalmor and just trying to spread propaganda. I can imagine the Thalmor saying things like that in order to justify their cause, but in reality just want power.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Honestly, I'm not surprised that the 'lesser races' are ignorant to the Thalmor and our mission. We only wish to improve quality of life and to save Tamriel from the darkness that is man, in essence, to save man from himself. All throughout man's history he has created chaos and drenched the continent in blood, dragging both himself, his neighbors and us down with him. The Thalmor exist to bring order to the nations of man, putting an end to the chaos he has caused in Tamriel! In short: To put things back to right. Even if that means a Second Great War.
The only thing I'm ignorant about is your personal headcanon which holds no interest for me. My interest is in the real lore and canon of the Elder Scrolls universe. The only headcanon that interests me is Michael Kirkbride's and his headcanon of what the Thalmor are about is nothing like yours.

I'm not quite sure that Nanalata's posts are headcanon, rather role-playing as a Thalmor and just trying to spread propaganda. I can imagine the Thalmor saying things like that in order to justify their cause, but in reality just want power.

This thread is a debate on arguments of the Civil War and generally anything that pops up during those arguments using lore and facts. Personal opinion and what one role plays in their own game is alright, but when it is used in this thread as a valid argument for a single side it becomes void.

People can role play whatever they want, there is a role play section for that.
 

Tzipora

New Member
The Empire did not ban the worship of Talos. It was the Thalmor. I really admire Ulfric for standing up for what he believed in. But he was really racist, even though it was Elenwen who tortured him during his imprisonment. He should have fought against the Thalmor, not the Empire itself. If he went against the Thalmor, the worship of Talos would have been restored. However, I felt that he was going at this war all wrong, and was more hurt than help.And that he dueled the High King just to get the throne.

I joined the Empire because I think Skyrim doesn't just belong to the Nords. I mean, Cyrodill doesn't just belong to the Imperials, Valenwood to the Bosmer, etc. But if Skyrim is going to let other races in, they better not change the customs of the Nords.

Even though I was a Bosmer and Ulfric hated Mer, I was kind of torn between the two factions. But I have a head cannon that if the Empire in Skyrim and the Stormcloacks worked together, then they could keep the Thalmor out.

Sorry if I made a few mistakes regarding the politics of Skyrim. I just typed this all in like, 2 minutes.
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Dagmar


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NENALATA said:
First of all, your fledgling Empire never 'defeated' the Dominion, you surrendered and the Summerset Isles were unscathed by the war.​
The Third Empire conquered the Aldmeri Dominion with Numidium. The Second Empire conquered Alinor with conventional warfare. The Aldmeri Dominion has never defeated the Empire. The First and Second Imperial Empires collapsed from internal disputes. These are matters of undeniable fact.


First of all, I was talking about Titus Mede II's Empire. As with the prior response, which I graciously ignored, you have completely disregarded my context. No where in that sentence or in that paragraph am I talking about previous Empire's? That doesn't even make sense. I also find it interesting how you left out defeat of the 4th Empire. - No mention of this whatsoever So that tells me all I needed to know about the intentions behind your "facts". I am, after all, an observer of human nature.



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NENALATA said:
Secondly, by signing the White Gold Concordant the Empire was spared and it exists today because we allow it to exist.​
The Aldmeri Dominion blew its load in its bid to conquer the Empire. It was so weak by the end of the Great War that it couldn't even hold on to the land that the Empire ceded to it under the White Gold Concordat. It's delusionally optimistic to think that "Old Mary" had anything left to throw at the Empire but harassment attacks reminiscent of its actions in the Second Era. The people were simply sick of war and wanted and needed the opportunity to rebuild without having to deal with open hostilities with the Aldmeri Dominion at the same time. Regardless of whether it was the right decision for the Emperor and the Elder Council to make at the time it was a popularly supported one.



The Empire won the battle of red ring and the Thalmor could not immediately deal with this loss. This is Fact. But here's the difference, Empire did virtually no damage to the Dominion itself. Follow me on this? Our infrastructure was left in tact. That is Fact. Not all Dominion troops were wiped out in Cyrodil, as you and your crew delusion-ally claim. It said the Dominion sent "all available" troops into the Battle for the Imperial City. There were still Dominion troops guarding the cities in western and southern Cyrodil, not to mention that before the Battle of Red Ring, the Dominon conquered most of Cyrodil, except for cities such as Bruma and Cheydinhal. That is Fact. The Imperials wiped out our troops sent into that nightmarish battle in Cyrodil, and very few escaped that hell hole. This is Fact. However, we still had armies in Hammerfell and armies "behind the lines" back home but would not have been ready for deployment in time to stop the Legions should they have advanced further into our holdings in Cyrodil. Surely the citizens in those cities would risen up and overthrown our Military Governors. This is a Possibility.

Perhaps we should have held out longer, with a still functioning, "unscathed" infrastructure, there's no doubt the Empire and the few Legions they had left would have fallen to a war of attrition. Sieging cities is hard thing, especially when they're all strung out in opposite directions. Not to mention how most of Cyrodil was left in ruins or occupied, Southern Hammerfell was in ruins/occupied and Hammerfell itself was still under siege, aside from city guard, everything the Empire had left was put on the table at Red Ring. This is a Fact. You can say the same for our army in Cyrodil, but not Dominion-wide. The fact that the war in Hammerfell went on for another 5 yrs proves that you and DunkenMage are wrong on this. Totally.


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NENALATA said:
Thirdly, both Numidiums (a purely Elven creation) were eventually destroyed.​
So what? Neither "Numidium" was an Altmer creation. The true Numidium was a Dwemer creation and Akulahkhan was a Chimer creation. The Empire controlled Numidium because Morrowind was part of the Empire underscoring that the concept of Merish solidarity is a myth of your personal headcanon. Their destruction had nothing to do with the Aldmeri Dominion and does nothing to change the fact that the Aldmeri Dominion has fallen to the Empire in every past incarnation and the Empire has never fallen to Aldmeri Dominion.



lol Really? What kind of counter argument is this exactly? I never said they were "Altmer" creations, I said, "Elven". Again, I know reading comprehension is overrated these days but that's not my fault. You have yet to prove me wrong on any of this, thus far. Furthermore, it's called critical thinking. Detectives and NCIS do this everyday. I know it was shunned during the Dark Ages, where everyone was FORCED to have the same beliefs and the same doctrine. lolz That's funny coming from a Justiciar, don't you think? :) Oh never mind, you wouldn't understand the joke anyways. Probably start rambling on about how my humor doesn't fit into what happened in the 1st Era. :/



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NENALATA said:
Honestly, I'm not surprised that the 'lesser races' are ignorant to the Thalmor and our mission. We only wish to improve quality of life and to save Tamriel from the darkness that is man, in essence, to save man from himself. All throughout man's history he has created chaos and drenched the continent in blood, dragging both himself, his neighbors and us down with him. The Thalmor exist to bring order to the nations of man, putting an end to the chaos he has caused in Tamriel! In short: To put things back to right. Even if that means a Second Great War.​
The only thing I'm ignorant about is your personal headcanon which holds no interest for me. My interest is in the real lore and canon of the Elder Scrolls universe. The only headcanon that interests me is Michael Kirkbride's and his headcanon of what the Thalmor are about is nothing like yours.


Thank God this is the end of this one. Arrggghhhh. I feel like I've just ran a marathon :)

Lastly, you can't wear a black hat and then try and jump on my case for being the bad-guy. I have no doubt whatsoever that you're interested in uhh 'real lore' and 'canon'... when it serves your defense on these forums. Your problem is you're using 'real lore' and 'real canon' to invalidate 'real lore' and 'real canon'. And furthermore, the creators of the Elder Scrolls Universe have said over and over again that there is plenty of room for Conjecture or people to draw their own conclusions. I believe in Critical thinking and analyzing 'real lore' and ' real canon' to draw the best results possible. You can not ever prove me wrong on this, you cannot ever utter a word against it because what happened Between the Events on the Elder Scrolls Timeline is left up to us to investigate and deduce results as best we can. Which is all I have done.

Simply put, I have done this and you have not. Yet you think you can correct me, when you seem to have never really thought about this for yourself. And once again, that's not my fault.
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
DrunkenMage


This thread is a debate on arguments of the Civil War and generally anything that pops up during those arguments using lore and facts. Personal opinion and what one role plays in their own game is alright, but when it is used in this thread as a valid argument for a single side it becomes void.

People can role play whatever they want, there is a role play section for that.


I can't believe I'm reading this. Are you SERIOUSLY going to get on here in front of the world and tell me that you've never done the same? Your profile icon, the picture at the end of your post(s), not to mention others. I use terms such as 'we' the Thalmor did this and that because it helps me feel more comfortable in the debate. Which is exactly what this is. And I'm not going to stop.

However, I can see where we might get distracted by too much Gun-smoke flying back and forth, but that's the fun of it. :) And I've seen you do the same and others and no one has a problem with it. Interesting huh?

Glad I never joined the Empire. So sad how there was never an option in the game to join the Dominion.
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
original_funk


You get me. THANK YOU. Even if you don't agree, you get where I'm coming from and for that I thank you. :)

Jader


That was pretty funny and that's exactly the kind of Tom-Foolery the Thalmor intend to put a stop too.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
DrunkenMage



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original_funk said:
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Dagmar said:
30811.jpg
NENALATA said:
Honestly, I'm not surprised that the 'lesser races' are ignorant to the Thalmor and our mission. We only wish to improve quality of life and to save Tamriel from the darkness that is man, in essence, to save man from himself. All throughout man's history he has created chaos and drenched the continent in blood, dragging both himself, his neighbors and us down with him. The Thalmor exist to bring order to the nations of man, putting an end to the chaos he has caused in Tamriel! In short: To put things back to right. Even if that means a Second Great War.​
The only thing I'm ignorant about is your personal headcanon which holds no interest for me. My interest is in the real lore and canon of the Elder Scrolls universe. The only headcanon that interests me is Michael Kirkbride's and his headcanon of what the Thalmor are about is nothing like yours.
I'm not quite sure that Nanalata's posts are headcanon, rather role-playing as a Thalmor and just trying to spread propaganda. I can imagine the Thalmor saying things like that in order to justify their cause, but in reality just want power.
This thread is a debate on arguments of the Civil War and generally anything that pops up during those arguments using lore and facts. Personal opinion and what one role plays in their own game is alright, but when it is used in this thread as a valid argument for a single side it becomes void.

People can role play whatever they want, there is a role play section for that.


I can't believe I'm reading this. Are you SERIOUSLY going to get on here in front of the world and tell me that you've never done the same? Your profile icon, the picture at the end of your post(s), not to mention others. I use terms such as 'we' the Thalmor did this and that because it helps me feel more comfortable in the debate. Which is exactly what this is. And I'm not going to stop.

However, I can see where we might get distracted by too much Gun-smoke flying back and forth, but that's the fun of it. :) And I've seen you do the same and others and no one has a problem with it. Interesting huh?

Glad I never joined the Empire. So sad how there was never an option in the game to join the Dominion.

The point of that post went right over your head.

Role playing as in "In my game I believe the Bear of Markarth is Propaganda" or "I think the Empire are going to murder all the Jarls" While someone can role play anything they want in their games, creating their own headcanon, it isn't used as a valid debate in this thread.

Of course I have no issues with people role playing as their character, speaking as "We the Empire" or "We the Stormcloaks" But there is a difference between role playing as your character or part of a faction to some of the more interesting arguments put forth in this thread. Such as the Empire supporters are hiding lore. Everything is Imperial propaganda etc.
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
@Lunaruse


My dear Luna, you seem like a really nice person and a good friend. Which means once they're 'finished' with the Thalmor, they'll be coming for you next because you're an Elf and different from them. :) Have seen it a thousand and one... too many times. Just look at all the murdered 'Elven Civilians' in the Nord bandit forts and how we're treated in general in Skyrim.

Clearly, the Nords cared nothing about 'protecting them'.

Please don't misunderstand, even though I'm a Devil, I'm your Devil and I will protect the Elves. Not all Thalmor are bad either just like not all Stormcloaks are bad or Imperials.

@Everyone else:


Pardon us if we are not willing to just sit back and wait for man to come up with some new cheap-trick to enslave us all again.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
@Lunaruse


My dear Luna, you seem like a really nice person and a good friend. Which means once they're 'finished' with the Thalmor, they'll be coming for you next because you're an Elf and different from them. :) Have seen it a thousand and one... too many times. Just look at all the murdered 'Elven Civilians' in the Nord bandit forts and how we're treated in general in Skyrim.

Please don't misunderstand, even though I'm a Devil, I'm your Devil and I will protect the Elves. Not all Thalmor are bad either.

Night of Green Fire? Of course the Thalmor aren't bad...
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
30811.jpg
NENALATA said:
My dear Luna, you seem like a really nice person and a good friend. Which means once they're 'finished' with the Thalmor, they'll be coming for you next because you're an Elf and different from them. :) Have seen it a thousand and one... too many times. Just look at all the murdered 'Elven Civilians' in the Nord bandit forts and how we're treated in general in Skyrim.​
Please don't misunderstand, even though I'm a Devil, I'm your Devil and I will protect the Elves. Not all Thalmor are bad either.​
Night of Green Fire? Of course the Thalmor aren't bad...


Well, apparently your Emperor didn't seem to think so when he signed a unanimous treaty 'accepting' Thalmor values. And I've seen how both citizen and Legion alike look up to him with Great respect and admiration.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
With nearly the entire Imperial army sitting on the Dominion's border, I would like to see how the Dominion fares against prepared Legions. They seem to have struggled when the Legions were able to form up for offense.
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
DrunkenMage


With nearly the entire Imperial army sitting on the Dominion's border, I would like to see how the Dominion fares against prepared Legions. They seem to have struggled when the Legions were able to form up for offense.


While I don't think a Thalmor Victory in the next Great War is totally out of our reach, I will admit that it will be more complicated than previously - Unless Skyrim secedes. Then you're ours :) Which is one of several reason for us having a presence in Skyrim. Although, there are other reasons.

It all depends on what goes down in Skyrim. Your fate... is being decided by the very people whose Gods you banned. And judging by the large number of Imperials on here, damn. Your people must looove you. Perhaps it has something to do with the red uniforms. lolz
 

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