Damsel in Distress: Part 2 - Tropes vs Women in Video Games (video)
- Thread starter theoduck
- Start date
utael
Member
Im sorry but she just seems butt hurt to me, sorry some women want to be that damsel in distress, game makers are telling a story not educating our young women. I have a big problem with those people who protray game makers as sexist pigs. The onky sexist pig in that video was her, about her own sex. Im not saying all women should be the helpess damsel hell my girlfriend of 4 years is far from it. Im just saying quit poking fire where there is no flame.
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk HD
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk HD
theoduck
If persimmons approach, Khajiit will smell them.
So far the only opinion I have expressed on this concerns the method used to take the video down. Nobody wants to admit or even acknowledge their role in perpetuating our 2,000+ year-old rape culture, but as a casual gamer and a contributor to this website, I am very interested in this subject... not necessarily in this woman's particular presentation of it.
What I got from the video is that some, not all (didn't see Skyrim mentioned) publishers (the ones who typically make the "dumb it down" decisions on a game) are very lazy. The "damsel in distress" quest McGuffin is old, tired, and reflects a nostalgic desire to return to "simpler" times when men were men and women were either trophies (young, fluffable) or villains (old, ugly, Medusa).
This being an international forum, I don't know if you live in the US or not, but there is definitely a fire to be poked here. You can't ignore the fact that a very large and very vocal faction of people want to return us to a gender-role system that was in place before the advent of household conveniences and (especially) birth-control. In this system men are MEN and women are girls.
Even if you have a girlfriend who doesn't need rescuing (good for you) and you don't see that the US media (90+% owned by the right-wing) repeatedly and consistently reinforces the idea of women as objects to be desired, conquered or feared, using the phrase "butt hurt" to describe a woman who has presented these opinions betrays (at the very least) a lack of understanding. Maybe you should watch the video again... with your girlfriend...
utael
Member
She was right next to me when I watched it, she feels the same way. I do live in the US and again don't see the stigma that is claimed. When my own mother and step-mother feel the same way about this subject don't you think its a little iffy on what is supposedly the "norm" I live in the part of the country were being back-asswords and "traditional" are the norm, but I still know that this proclaimed assault on women is complete and utter BS. I also know that game story developers who are trying to sell their game to the market know that the market isn't in women but in males. Sorry if it makes us feel good to rescue the pretty woman instead of the evil bitch who lives in a cave.
It has nothing to do with that shes helpless it just shows that there really aren't enough female gamers to warrant a change of story.
It has nothing to do with that shes helpless it just shows that there really aren't enough female gamers to warrant a change of story.
theoduck
If persimmons approach, Khajiit will smell them.
1. You don't have anything to be "sorry" for... after all, it is the norm. How many words do you know like "bitch" that attack both a person's character AND their gender in one syllable? All the ones I know are specifically for women.
2. I suppose there will be fewer and fewer female gamers if the best we can do is Skyrim, which avoids sex and gender as much as a game possibly can. The first Dragon Age game (Origins) had some pretty damn good women in it, though.
Medea
The Shadow Queen
This is bullplops. I read comics for a long time when I was younger. I've played video games my whole life (well, except for when I was too small too pick up a controller).
You don't think men in comic books are "eye candy"? Almost every male superhero in comics is a beautiful, buff man with the face of a male model. They ALL wear spandex to show off their male physique. All comic book heroes and heroines are larger than life. That means they are all unrealistically good looking too. Anyone else remember getting to look at Doctor Manhattan's penis every 15 minutes in the movie Watchmen?
You don't think they kill off male super heroes for shock value? They killed off Batman's sidekick Robin (at least one of the Robins) long ago, which is considered one of the most shocking and violent moments in comic book history (the Joker beat him to death with a crowbar). They killed Superman for shock value, and it also gave them a good excuse to relaunch the series later and make him less of the Boy Scout type.
Video games and movies too. Sure, they used to be more misogynistic, but nowadays the female hero is the one that is most often portrayed as infallible, and "badass". Give me a break with this plops. Very few titles treat women disrespectfully (like Duke Nukem). How many titles are there now with a woman as the hero? How many movies do you see now where some waify chick like Michelle Rodriguez or Milla Jovovich knocks out a guy that looks like Brock Lesnar in one punch, or takes out 20 guards single-handedly without being touched, like in the movie Kill Bill? They changed the hero Ash to a woman in the Evil Dead remake. pfft.
I believe in female empowerment too, but I'm not going to wear a turtleneck and man pants because I'm so guarded and fluffing obsessed with hating men that I think one's going to molest me if he sees a little bit of my cleavage. I'd like to think that I intimidate men, rather than the other way around.
You don't think men in comic books are "eye candy"? Almost every male superhero in comics is a beautiful, buff man with the face of a male model. They ALL wear spandex to show off their male physique. All comic book heroes and heroines are larger than life. That means they are all unrealistically good looking too. Anyone else remember getting to look at Doctor Manhattan's penis every 15 minutes in the movie Watchmen?
You don't think they kill off male super heroes for shock value? They killed off Batman's sidekick Robin (at least one of the Robins) long ago, which is considered one of the most shocking and violent moments in comic book history (the Joker beat him to death with a crowbar). They killed Superman for shock value, and it also gave them a good excuse to relaunch the series later and make him less of the Boy Scout type.
Video games and movies too. Sure, they used to be more misogynistic, but nowadays the female hero is the one that is most often portrayed as infallible, and "badass". Give me a break with this plops. Very few titles treat women disrespectfully (like Duke Nukem). How many titles are there now with a woman as the hero? How many movies do you see now where some waify chick like Michelle Rodriguez or Milla Jovovich knocks out a guy that looks like Brock Lesnar in one punch, or takes out 20 guards single-handedly without being touched, like in the movie Kill Bill? They changed the hero Ash to a woman in the Evil Dead remake. pfft.
I believe in female empowerment too, but I'm not going to wear a turtleneck and man pants because I'm so guarded and fluffing obsessed with hating men that I think one's going to molest me if he sees a little bit of my cleavage. I'd like to think that I intimidate men, rather than the other way around.
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
While Anita has a point it's not exactly novel or insightful and she undermines it with either intellectual dishonesty or poor research by deliberately ignoring or being completely clueless about facts and female characters in video gaming that contradict her observations and by failing to point out anything that intelligent people don't already know about the video game industry or to provide any constructive solutions.
For example her analysis of Angel in Borderlands 2 is shallow and devoid of insight. Even after all the abuse and emotional and mental manipulation/torture from Handsome Jack since her childhood she's developed the strength of character to trick Jack and direct and manipulate the player character's and all of the other NPC protagonist's actions to lead to her death in order to save Pandora from Handsome Jack. She makes a noble sacrifice in which the player character and Roland are merely her instruments to carry out that sacrifice. That's empowering not undermining her character. It's also a non-violent death as all the player does, notwithstanding all the gunfire, is cutoff the supply of Eridium that she's grown dependent upon to survive because of Handsome Jack's actions. Her death simply doesn't fit into the simplistic paradigm that Anita is attempting to illustrate
Anita also conveniently ignores the fact that 2 of the player character choices are women (Maya and Gaige) and that the game is filled with strong female NPC characters (Lilith, Moxxi, Ellie etc.) and devoid of any of the portrayal or treatment of women in the manner discussed in her video. (There's even a humorous quest where the female leader of a town directs you without your knowledge into killing a chauvinist pig in the town with Hyperion mortar fire.)
Sorry but the video comes off like a B grade college video discourse about things we already know. Maybe she'll post something redeeming in part 3 but I'm not particularly optimistic given her penchant to ignore games and female characters that may well provide clues to constructive ways to steer game development away from these kind of misogynistic themes.
For example her analysis of Angel in Borderlands 2 is shallow and devoid of insight. Even after all the abuse and emotional and mental manipulation/torture from Handsome Jack since her childhood she's developed the strength of character to trick Jack and direct and manipulate the player character's and all of the other NPC protagonist's actions to lead to her death in order to save Pandora from Handsome Jack. She makes a noble sacrifice in which the player character and Roland are merely her instruments to carry out that sacrifice. That's empowering not undermining her character. It's also a non-violent death as all the player does, notwithstanding all the gunfire, is cutoff the supply of Eridium that she's grown dependent upon to survive because of Handsome Jack's actions. Her death simply doesn't fit into the simplistic paradigm that Anita is attempting to illustrate
Anita also conveniently ignores the fact that 2 of the player character choices are women (Maya and Gaige) and that the game is filled with strong female NPC characters (Lilith, Moxxi, Ellie etc.) and devoid of any of the portrayal or treatment of women in the manner discussed in her video. (There's even a humorous quest where the female leader of a town directs you without your knowledge into killing a chauvinist pig in the town with Hyperion mortar fire.)
Sorry but the video comes off like a B grade college video discourse about things we already know. Maybe she'll post something redeeming in part 3 but I'm not particularly optimistic given her penchant to ignore games and female characters that may well provide clues to constructive ways to steer game development away from these kind of misogynistic themes.
theoduck
If persimmons approach, Khajiit will smell them.
...and once again, I should remind you that the REASON the video got flagged for removal was because of a bogus complaint of a ToS violation, which reeks of dumbass, get-rid-of-thing-that-vaguely-threatens-me-in-ways-I-refuse-to-understand.
utael
Member
I think it was more of just trolling, rather than omg i don't understand get it away, feeling. Honestly I can' think of a few male derogatory terms let me list them for you since you're too focused on man hate.
Asshole, fluffer *sorry for the usage just need to get it out*, Bastard, Dickhead, Dumbplops, etc.
Obviously insults are equal gender
Asshole, fluffer *sorry for the usage just need to get it out*, Bastard, Dickhead, Dumbplops, etc.
Obviously insults are equal gender
Medea
The Shadow Queen
I was just responding to the part of the video (about 6 minutes in) where she talked about the "women in refrigerators trope" in comics. Actually, from the comics I've read, it seems male comic book heroes are killed off for shock value much more often than females.
I saw that issue of Green Lantern in a COMPLETELY different light. It wasn't about "using a dead girlfriend as a plot device". It was about the "consequences all heroes, with powers far beyond human limits, have to face when they interact with humanity", used as a plot device. It could have just as easily been Wonder Woman coming home to find her "normal" human boyfriend killed by her nemesis, Circe.
Stephen Daidalus
Well-Known Member
Hyperbole much?
You like to intimidate men. To me that demonstrates more hostility to men than being critical of a cultural narrative that perpetuates male privilege. Regrettably, you don't intimidate me.
I completely understand this level of defensiveness coming from a bro, but from a woman, I find it curious.
Medea
The Shadow Queen
Hyperbole much?
You like to intimidate men. To me that demonstrates more hostility to men than being critical of a cultural narrative that perpetuates male privilege. Regrettably, you don't intimidate me.
I completely understand this level of defensiveness coming from a bro, but from a woman, I find it curious.
I'm just saying I'm confident about who I am, and that I don't play the "damsel in distress" card.
If you must know, I have been abused in the past, but I'm not going to blame it on all men. I blame things like this on the individual. I made it because I chose to make it myself, not because I had to fight tooth and nail through a male dominated society. In many ways feminism perpetuates female victimization. To me, it assumes, since "men dominate society", that women are unable to make it on their own. That we need some kind of help, and we are constantly barraged by unfair prejudice. It produces an unnatural fear or paranoia in us, and a belief in a conspiracy that may have some small ring of truth, but isn't nearly as prevalent as feminists want us to believe.
The way I made it was by being fearless.
Stephen Daidalus
Well-Known Member
I suppose you could say the same about those who promote equal rights based on race, ethnicity, and religion and who battle privilege where they see it. That's absolutely your prerogative, but I will still continue to disagree with you.
Medea
The Shadow Queen
Yes, at times we absolutely need people to fight against inequality, but we don't need those same people to try and produce mass guilt or self-pity on people. The outrage is misplaced. For instance, where is all of the outrage from the democrats now, about how women are treated under Islamic extremism? You'd think, since liberals are "all for women's rights", there would be a massive campaign to fight against the abuse of women by more extreme Muslim societies. No, instead, they complain about violence and misogyny in video games. As a liberal myself, I find it very hard to swallow the politically correct hypocrisy.
Stephen Daidalus
Well-Known Member
I wasn't aware that the views expressed on the video were part of the Democratic Party platform.
Medea
The Shadow Queen
Feminists are conservative? That's news to me.
Anyway, I'm just making a point. You talked about people who promote equal rights. I'm responding by talking about the prevalent hypocrisy of it.
Stephen Daidalus
Well-Known Member
Feminists are conservative? That's news to me.
Your example of hypocrisy concerns behavior by members of the Democratic Party. Are there any feminists who are not Democrats? If there are, are they still hypocrites?
By my standards, you're not a liberal, but I am also not an American.
Medea
The Shadow Queen
48% of female democrats label themselves as feminist, as opposed to 14% of republican women.
So, do I have to agree with everything liberals believe in down the line to be considered a liberal, Stephen?
I agree with liberals about 80% of the time. (I'm guesstimating here) I'd say i identify with liberals much more than conservatives, so therefore I would label myself as liberal.
I don't believe in feminism. I'm an egalitarianist. I believe in the rights of individuals, not groups, but I agree with liberal policies much more than conservative ones. I actually don't think feminists will be happy until 51% of all positions of power are held by women.
