Seanu Reaves
The Shogun of Gaming
The map of the different land masses of Tamriel?
Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
- Start date
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
Xenophobia and racism are not mutually exclusive terms. Many if not most instances of xenophobia are based on racist views and attitudes
Every one of these statements attributed to an entire race is a racist statement. It's no different than saying hispanics in the US are illegal immigrants, blacks are gang bangers and Jews are shady.
Nord culture and religion predates the apotheosis of Talos by thousands of years. Talos is not the defining feature of Nord culture. He is but one aspect of it and he is also an aspect of culture throughout the Empire. Like all of the other Divines he's worshipped in multiple cultures of the Empire.
Every province in the Empire made sacrifices to combat the Aldmeri Dominion. None more so than Cyrodiil and Hammerfell which were war fronts while Skyrim and High Rock remained sheltered from the ravages of the war. As stated in The Great War - A Concise Account of the Great War between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion by the end of the Battle of the Red Ring most of the people of the Empire, including the Nords of Skyrim, wanted peace at almost any price and therefore accepted the terms of the White-Gold Concordat for over a quarter of a century.
Seanu Reaves
The Shogun of Gaming
All Hail!!! The Empress is here!!!
Captain Nagisus
Jake the Dog!
(( Nords are an exception, I'll have to think about why that may be. But it's definitely a trait for most elves. It can't really be a dominant species thing, because biologically, ignoring behaviour, all the races are vastly similar. Behaviour-wise, as we can see kinda, how superior you believe you are makes little difference. The Empire rule about the same amount of land as the Dominion, and their views on how dominant they are are polar opposites. ))
Seanu Reaves
The Shogun of Gaming
Likely a literal vs. Economic slavery. I don't see Imperial's literally enslaving like the more physically dominating races (Dark Elves, Nords) they simple use their business know how and silver tongues to ensure they rule. After all they ruled basically an entire continent.
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
The segregation of the Dunmer is a city policy attributable to Ulfric as Jarl of Eastmarch, not the Stormcloaks and it is irrefutably racist. If you knew your lore better or had taken on the rather daunting task of reading all the pages of this thread (and I don't fault you for not doing so as it's basically as large as a novel now) you would know this. There are numerous NPC dialogues that either imply or flat out inform you that the Dunmer are not allowed to live outside the Gray Quarter.....But I still disagree that they are as racist as presented. Look at the high elf in Windhelm. She works, she pitches in and she has one of the biggest houses there, she is wealthy and all that. And no one is picking on her. And she is a HIGH ELF
She says it herself, dunmer in windhelm are in that position because they dont pitch in and dont ask for help.
And also they are all nice and all to that guy who becomes Jarl of windhelm if imperials win, but they are also racist as hell and involved in crimes....
Niranye's opinions are just that, her opinions. She is not a Dunmer so she can't speak to their experiences . The fact of the matter is there's nothing that the Dunmer could do that would allow them to live anywhere else in Windhelm because of the segregation laws of Windhelm. There are two issues at hand regarding the Dunmer's living situation. The first is that they are segregated to the Gray Quarter as a matter of law. The second is that the Gray Quarter itself is squalid. Niranye is speaking about the second matter not the first. The fact of the matter is that there are successful Dunmer in Windhelm. Belyn Hlaalu owns a farm outside Windhelm where he employs a Nord, but like all Dunmer in Windhelm he has to reside in the Gray Quarter.
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
There's no basis to conclude that an independent Skyrim would help any other province. Outside of the Empire, the histories of Hammerfell, High Rock and Skyrim has been one of conflict, changing alliances and betrayal. Even while part of the Empire, Skyrim attacked and occupied territories of Hammerfell for decades.
Seanu Reaves
The Shogun of Gaming
Unfortunately. The only words in my head, which while rude are making me chuckle. "Hide your wife, hide you kids, hide your husbands... Cause Dag be raping everyone up in here..." or "Tell me how does that make your buttwhole feel?"
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
Not really. Mookie is still correct to observe that racism isn't exclusive to Ulfric and his Stormcloaks and he's also correct to note that the other provinces are going to be in danger before Skyrim if the Aldmeri Dominion decides to launch an offensive. That of course also presents a problem to any plans that Ulfric might have to attack the Dominion. As nasty as it sounds, I wouldn't be surprised if an independent Skyrim took advantage of any attack by the Dominion on either Cyrodiil or Hammerfell by helping itself to some of their lands in the north (again). After all, Falkreath used to be part of Cyrodiil and it didn't become part of Skyrim because Cyrodiil lost it in a poker game.
Mookie
Active Member
Conflicts are a normal thing but men would unite against elves. They arent complete idiots (I hope)
And Nords would help, because if hammerfell falls or high rock they can be certain that they are next. It is a lot better to defend your homeland outside of it and keep the eventual conflict on someone elses turf.
Nords see that. Even if Aldmeri dominion decides to attack imidiately after the conflict they have to go trough sea of ghosts (and lose mass of troops) or capture hammerfell (which they arent able as it seems) or high rock (still improbable)
And by the state of everyone there I would say that there is at least another 25-30 years before another great war. More than enough to form back the Tongues, The Nord army etc...
In the long run I think that disolution of the empire is beneficial. It will usher in a new era, and a new Hjalti Early-beard will rise up and form another empire of men. But keeping an empire on life suport disables that and keeps men stagnant.
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
The Stormcloaks certainly were not a unifying force against the Dominion by waging civil war in Skyrim and expending precious resources in doing so. If they're willing to do that then it hardly follows that a resulting independent Skyrim wouldn't be willing to take advantage of its neighbors by attacking and claiming additional territory as it did with the War of the Bend'r Mahk. Nothing in Ulfric's actions or words indicate he is interested in allying with anyone. Certainly not the Empire, which he hates. He's on record as stating that he'd like to kill the Emperor himself if afforded the opportunity to do so. If the Empire fell to the Aldmeri Dominion he'd likely gloat over it.
Skyrim gains an advantage by simply not doing anything at all and letting the Dominion and the Empire and/or Hammerfell deplete one another's resources. In an ideal situation it would result in the victor having depleted military forces too weak to defend the territories from an invasion from Skyrim.
You're making two assumptions. The first is that the Empire cant' be rehabilitated. The Empire was arguably more disjointed during the Stormcrown Interregnum yet Titus Mede I was able to reunite four provinces and defend Tamriel against Umbriel and its army of the unliving so anything is possible in that regard. On the flipside, you're assuming that the Aldmeri Dominion wouldn't succeed in taking most if not all of Tamriel, ruling over the continent for centuries if not millenia much like the Aldmer did during the Merethic Era.
DAEDRIC GOD 9000
New Member
think imperials cause stormcloaks are racist and want skyrim full of nords whilst imperials arnt but rjeyre corrupt
Mookie
Active Member
Stormcloaks didnt wage war during war against the dominion, when it would be easiest thing to do. They didnt wage war for 25 years. Even if they didnt wage war for a 100 years they would still be people like you saying that.
They gave empire quarter of a century. He has problem with empire in Skyrim. But he wouldnt let elves take it. It would endanger Skyrim directly. Thats a big NO-NO
"Skyrim bellongs to the Nords" - thats all I noticed, I didnt see a battle cry Tamriel bellongs to the Nords
As I said, countries raise and countries fall, empires too. The Merethic era was there, and now isnt. Things happen and go by. But men will survive and a new empire will rise, sooner or later, one with someone worthy of a throne. For me, empire died with the Septims. Now, its time for a new player to step in. Redguard? Nord? Imperial? I dont know, but I know that they will be worthy of that position, like Talos was.
Dagmar
Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
Seanu Reaves
The Shogun of Gaming
I see the Empress has rendered your argument invalid.
Epic Keith
By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
I know how it feels to be raped by Dag
Go back to the page 150 and you'll find out
For some reason, this Dunmer living in the Grey Quarter reminds me of the British in India
Captain Nagisus
Jake the Dog!
(( Or alternatively, Indians in British India in the 1800s. I'm proud that I'm half-descended from the largest congregation of spiffy wanknuggets in history
))(( And don't forget BEFORE those arselegged elves came in, the beasts and the Hist ruled! Don't forget us guys!
...Guys? ))
Mookie
Active Member
(( Or alternatively, Indians in British India in the 1800s. I'm proud that I'm half-descended from the largest congregation of spiffy wanknuggets in history
(( And don't forget BEFORE those arselegged elves came in, the beasts and the Hist ruled! Don't forget us guys!
...Guys? ))
Maybe with dragons gone dragonmen would take their place
One awesome thing would be the return of the Falmer
I can not imagine a huge fight men against thalmor and sudenly falmer start jumping out of every hole and crack
