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Bushy

New Member

Ok here is a video showing what I think to be a problem in Skyrim. The animals/creatures of Skyrim are waay to touchy. This has nothing to do with the video, but sneaking behind a deer, fox, sabre cat, to shoot with an arrow, they run or attack without seeing you. The cursor shows no eye when your moving, but the tame animals just book it anyway.

Now, the video just shows one example of one problem and another. One is how I creep around the corner with the Troll facing the other way, he sees me ??? and then I pop an Invisibility potion to creep by but the troll sees me when it gets close ??? The second part is me popping the potion before I creep and AGAIN the troll sees me so I stop moving yet it does not work.

Again, the creatures of the wild are too touchy. Also, the invisibility potion was useless. Makes no sense. Now my guy is a level 11. My sneak is at level 30. I took all of my armor off so I would make minimal noise. So this is just a heads up to Bethesda. Thanks for watching.

If you think I need to post this thread elsewhere so it can get attention, I would appreciate the tip.
 

Garrison

Active Member
I am not playing a stealth character atm, but 30 isn't particularly high. Maybe the troll smells you! Regarding the wildlife, given the amount of armed men running all over the place, realistically I think they would be very skittish. If the sneak in Skyrim is anything like Oblivion, once you get it up higher you'll be virtually undetectable.
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
Okay a few things here. Invisibility does not make you silent. People and creatures can still detect you if they hear you moving.

Unless you have the Silence perk from the Sneak perk tree any movement has the potential of being detected because of the sound of your footsteps.

Sneaking around in walk mode makes less sound than in run mode and having the Muffled Movement perk or a Muffle spell running will further reduce the sound you make as will your Sneak skill. Proximity to the person or creature also matters as does whether they are actively looking for you. If you make contact with a movable object that will also create noise as will weapon swings

In the first part of the video the partial eye opening means the troll is actively looking for you. In addition you're in running sneak mode and you are moving through deep snow. You don't appear to be wearing any Muffle boots so with a Sneak skill of 30 you may as well be wearing a bell to a troll that is actively looking for you as you move rapidly through the snow towards it. :p

In the second part of the video I actually lol'd when I saw you kick the skeleton bones as you moved towards the troll. :)
 

Bushy

New Member
Okay a few things here. Invisibility does not make you silent. People and creatures can still detect you if they hear you moving.

Unless you have the Silence perk from the Sneak perk tree any movement has the potential of being detected because of the sound of your footsteps.

Sneaking around in walk mode makes less sound than in run mode and having the Muffled Movement perk or a Muffle spell running will further reduce the sound you make as will your Sneak skill. Proximity to the person or creature also matters as does whether they are actively looking for you. If you make contact with a movable object that will also create noise as will weapon swings

In the first part of the video the partial eye opening means the troll is actively looking for you. In addition you're in running sneak mode and you are moving through deep snow. You don't appear to be wearing any Muffle boots so with a Sneak skill of 30 you may as well be wearing a bell to a troll that is actively looking for you as you move rapidly through the snow towards it. :p

In the second part of the video I actually lol'd when I saw you kick the skeleton bones as you moved towards the troll. :)


None of you watched the video I see. NUMBER ONE! The first time I was invisible, i was perfectly still when the troll was near me and it still saw me and attacked. NUMBER TWO! in oblivion when you went invisible, even in the middle of combat, the enemies would stop and say "Where are you!?" THEY COULD NOT SEE YOU! I dont care if they can hear you. Ever been out in the woods hunting? You hear a lot of things but you dont see most of them much less know where its coming from and they are VISIBLE! My point is, and I am right, the creatures are too touchy! There were armed guards all over Oblivion too yet I could still sneak up behind an ANIMAL or TROLL with a low sneak skill (not daedra, human NCP) and shoot it without the fear of it running away or attacking me even though it did not see me. I'll come out with more videos for the animal part. I am playing on expert mode too

If you really want to dive into details about the vid like you "Trolls" love to do. Here we go, It was very windy and the visibility low due to flurries. There was no way the troll SAW me or HEARD me if you want to go the realism route. Stand outside on a windy day with a snow storm, let me know what you see and hear! I had no armor on, so no "clanking" and again, I was INVISIBLE. That used to be a nice outlet to get out of a hairy fight, now it does not even keep you hidden.
 

Garrison

Active Member
I actually did watch your video. I simply believe that your sneak is too low for what you're expecting. Maybe the sensitivity of the game has been heightened compared to Oblivion, but I don't think it strains credibility.

The reality is that a polar bear can smell a seal from up to a kilometer (roughly half a mile) away. I don't think it's unrealistic to believe that an Ice Troll can smell you from...what... 50 feet?
 

Metallipath

Premium Member
Invisibility works like Chameleon this time, not like Invisibility. I'm also of the belief that 30 Sneak is too low because Ice Trolls are not a low level mob. I think when you turn your view your character also walks around as well? It also looked like the Troll could have bumped it's arm into you, and if any mob does that it's instant detection. You were also nearly detected before the troll got right up beside you.

I don't really have much comment on the regular non hostile animals, I think for game purposes they should be easier to sneak up on, but in real life Deer, Rabbits, etc are all hyper sensitive to sound, smell and sight otherwise they would die even more often to predators.

Edit: I have to admit, snowy storm may be an exaggeration, rewatching it looks more like it was lightly falling down in small snowflakes. Hehe. I live in Canada though, so we're used to the winters.
 

Nightshade

Active Member
As others have stated, 30 Sneak is very low. You can still make noise even with no Armor, Invisibility, and in Sneak. There are certain rules to detection. Yes, you can argue this wouldn't happen in real life, but we're talking about a videogame that has programmed parameters ^_^

This is basically what everyone has said, but here it is again. (And this is not to suggest you did any or all of these, but just for future reference) You are more likely to be detected if you:
  • move too close to an enemy
  • swing a weapon (even if you don't hit someone with it)
  • run into a mobile object or walk on a trap.
  • make noise, including casting the spell without using the Quiet Casting perk.
Invisibility will end if the caster:
  • Activates an item (including: using levers and buttons, opening doors and containers, grabbing and stealing items).
  • Uses a magical effect other than invisibility (including spells, potions and scrolls)
  • Interacts with a character (including attack, pickpocket and talking)
Also, you moved very quickly in Sneak mode. I've found that I'm less likely to be detected when I sneak slowly. Sneak mode makes you naturally move slower, but you can choose to move even slower if you want.
 

Metallipath

Premium Member
Speed of movement definitely affects detection, there is a perk to counteract it, and the loading screens have told me many times.
 

Dagmar

Defender of the Bunnies of Skyrim
...Ever been out in the woods hunting? You hear a lot of things but you dont see most of them much less know where its coming from...
Trolls are not humans. Putting aside that this is a game and that it doesn't have to comport to your subjective perceptions of reality, if you've ever actually hunted then you know that a lot of prey have remarkable ability to detect you without relying on visual cues. The flipside is that many predators in the wild rely on sight last in tracking prey. Scent and sound are primary tools while sight is secondary.

Contrast this with my experience being detected by humans in Skyrim. Without invisibility and with little cover (e.g. huddling in a corner), I have had situations where humans guards have walked right past me without detecting me if the eye icon is very narrow even though you would think they should be able to see me given they are only a meter or so away from me. On the other hand my sneak skill is over twice what yours was and the eye icon was much narrower than it was in that video which may also be relevant.

...The first time I was invisible, i was perfectly still when the troll was near me and it still saw me and attacked...
It was already looking for you. Note that as you moved the eye icon opened up significantly. At that point you had already given away your general position.

in oblivion when you went invisible...armed guards all over Oblivion...
This isn't Oblivion. :D

2389930360_8f126060a4.jpg


Seriously, arguing that something is wrong because it doesn't work exactly as it did in a prior game is an intellectually barren argument. There were a fair amount of players that thought invisibility in Oblivion was overpowered and nerfing of invisibility in Skyrim may well be Bethesda's response.

...My point is, and I am right...

Opinion =/= Fact. You're certainly entitled to one, but flaming people by claiming they are trolls simply because they humorously poke holes in your arguments isn't a very effective way of persuading people to agree with it. :rolleyes:
 

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