Rogue Cop
- Thread starter Crooksin
- Start date
Omega Dragon
Active Member
According to his manifesto, many things he may be but definitely not crazy. He's doing exactly what anyone in his position should do.
(I took the liberty of downloading then uploading his manifesto uncensored, can be downloaded here.)
(I took the liberty of downloading then uploading his manifesto uncensored, can be downloaded here.)
Crooksin
Glue Sniffer
Oh, I read up on the motives. I definitely don't doubt his claims or even his good intent. Going around shooting at people (even ones who's only guilt is having an assumed corrupt family member) is the opposite of "definitely not crazy", however. So you feel as though if maybe a police force was internally corrupt that the "good" officers should then start firing on their former co-officers and related family? Its not exactly the kind of attention you want when you want to change things.
Omega Dragon
Active Member
He's not even "going around shooting at people"; he is waging an asymmetrical war against what is at least an ARMED organization. They've chosen to live by the sword, now it's time they die by the same and anyone mourning over their deaths probably isn't the attention he wants.
But if he is crazy, it's because he's doing it openly. It's because he's gone forward without a means of legal defense, and a way to get out.
Mr.Self Destruct
Chosen Undead
Honestly I think there is a lot worth looking into here and I think Dorner may be in the right, I've heard rumors and claims that the LAPD have killed innocent people trying to find Dorner and given the LAPD's history I wouldn't be surprised if they were the corrupt organization that Dorner claims they are.
It's unsettling seeing the media vilify Dorner without providing any open outlet to share views or shed light on Dorner's side. He could be the good guy here.
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It's unsettling seeing the media vilify Dorner without providing any open outlet to share views or shed light on Dorner's side. He could be the good guy here.
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KaitoGhost
Sea Sponge First Mate
Anyone who kills innocents is not a good guy, regardless of the reasons.
Crooksin
Glue Sniffer
"On 31 January he posted his manifesto, and on 3 February allegedly killed his first victims: Monica Quan, 28, a basketball coach and her fiance, Keith Lawrence, 27, as they sat in a car in Irvine, south of LA. Quan was the daughter of a police captain who had represented Dorner – negligently, in Dorner's view – at the tribunal."
And what did they do? Guilty by relation? Statistically, these murders make up for two thirds of all his murder victims (the third victim being a cop) so yes, you could say he is going around shooting people. Unless, of course, you mean he's not going around shooting random people.
As disturbing as your defense of a cop-killer and a murderer may be and what seems to be a complete opposition to the concept of a police force, the matter remains the same, whether or not they are corrupt does it justify being ambushed and shot? But let's ignore the fact that 2 of his 3 murder victims were not part of that armed organization and did not choose to live and die by the sword. Now I do not know the exact details of who or why he shot the police officers or whether it was a random shooting but collecting evidence against them and/or crusading for change is a much better solution than just to track them down and shoot them vigilante style. Even so, its just a temporary fix, how many do you think he can kill before he's stopped? 3 or 4? 10? Every single corrupted police officer on the LAPD? And then 3 or 4 or 10 more corrupted officers will take their place. How easy would it be for the LAPD to spin this and make it seem that the public needs them more, allowing them to be even more corrupt than before or at least get the corruption issue largely ignored. This guy's entire plan has now yielded the exact opposite effects from his original intentions.
The only way to stop this is to stop it at its source, i.e implement policies, stricter punishments, closer observation, no more half-assing regulations just because no one wants to do the paperwork, etc. This guy was ex-LAPD so if he had spoken out to the right people, I'm sure people would have taken him much more serious than some civilian screaming corruption.
Being labeled a monster and a murderer (which the media will no doubt do and from what I've already seen i.e calling his manifesto a bunch of "rambling" and they aren't wrong with the murderer bit) is also not the attention he wants and his messege, good or bad, will be obscured by this.
I'm sure we hold similar views on corrupt police officers, they are truly the scum of the earth but this is not how you go about stopping them. Neither is the policy of shooting corrupt officers on sight with no questions asked as you believe any good cop should do. This isn't just some armed organization, this is a police force, all of them still deserve trial just like anybody else and don't deserve to be shot like that even if they are guilty of corruption. I will admit, though, that I think punishments for dirty cops should be more severe than if a civilian had done the same and I definitely think the law is way too soft on them, even here in Canada. (emphasis on "way to soft")
From what I've read, he's not truly crazy, or at least wasn't. I think he's just a good cop who got a plops deal in life, couldn't stand the corruption and went off the deep-end a little (and I mean a lot) trying to find something or someone to blame for his plops deal. My initial "plops's crazy" was just to describe the situation in general, its pretty fluffing crazy. It wasn't really intended to be aimed at the perpetrator directly. However, in my opinion his message is discredited when he goes after innocent family members of the people/person he's accused of corruption and ambushes cops on the job. Nevertheless, I really hope people realize how corrupt the LAPD is and look to change things because of it, if any good can come out of this. I support this guy's fundamental reasons of doing this, but there is absolutely no way I can defend how he's doing it and frankly, I don't understand how anyone could. Is the solution for all of us to take our guns and start shooting down the corrupt cops and their family members? I think not.
Omega Dragon
Active Member
I'm going to stop right here. The fact you've chosen to use this terminology shows me you still think it's less unacceptable to kill a cop than a civilian. Maybe the 2 out of 3 "victims" were civilians, but killing a cop is somehow worthy of differentiation? Why? They are -only- people that willingly volunteered for a job they should know full well in advance they can and will die doing since they go around killing people themselves. It's kinda like the whole "resist arrest" thing being a crime, of course anyone is going to resist arrest, it's so stupid that the only reason resisting arrest is a crime is so they can put people in jail to begin with.
In fact, because at least when taking on the police you're taking on what everyone knows is an armed force that not only is prepared to kill but also is prepared to die, I would dare say it shouldn't even be any worse than any number of petty crimes at most.
This corruption isn't so simple as you may appear to be trying to make it out to be...
Then what would you expect him to do with any evidence he collects? There's plenty of evidence 9/11 was a false flag, along with James Holmes & Adam Lanza, but the only people that see it are a minority in the world. Hell, they didn't even bother hiding either JH/AL up well enough (the fauxed interviews & faked evidence in both were incredibly sloppy) because they knew no one that would be a possible threat would give a plops.
Considering his training, I'd bet he's already counting on the reinforcements. Not to mention, this IS Los Angeles and I wouldn't doubt a few major gangs there are already analyzing the situation for their benefit.
Yeah, like who? Again, not many options. 9/11, James Holmes, Adam Lanza, etc. - all show as much.
The media would've labeled him a monster & terrorist all the same, and a conspiracy theorist too.
I don't disagree with the trial part, if we're talking about a private arbitration court. A court whose judge & jury arbitrates on authority by both sides wherein the jury alone decides law, not a court that is owned by one entity or another.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Edit: none of what I said is a result of me having anything against police in general. I understand there are good cops & bad cops out there, I even know quite a few cops myself. But at the end of the day, I'm not going to mourn them if they die for being cops. Because that's all they are - doing a job they know full well the consequences of.
As for the two "innocent" people, I'm holding out until I see some hard evidence - not because I doubt the innocence either.
Soloquendi
Pastor of Muppets
You're confused. Soldiers sign up for battle, cops sign up to keep the peace. You really need to get off the computer and go out into the real world for a few years.
"I'm not going to mourn them if they die. Because that's all they are"
They're more than you will ever be.
"I'm not going to mourn them if they die. Because that's all they are"
They're more than you will ever be.
KaitoGhost
Sea Sponge First Mate
Omega Dragon makes me facepalm.
Crooksin
Glue Sniffer
Not exactly. I don't hold a police officers life above a civilian one or vica-versa. My "cop-killer" description was not so different as labeling a murderer of a kid as a kid-killer or what have you. However, it is a little different, especially when you ambush them. I have alot of respect of cops, doing a job that I would never do. I think they deserve the same from you, I don't know why you want to leave them so high-and-dry.
As for the resisting arrest, well of course that should be a crime. If someone is being arrested (assuming its on legit grounds, of course) and you resist, fight the cops, run away, whatever, that should be a crime. Why wouldn't it be? Just because no one actually wants to get arrested? You're assuming everyone who resists arrests is only guilty of just that.
So wait, let me get this straight. If you decide one day that you don't like cops, and you decide to go on a shooting spree looking for any cop in sight, that you shouldn't get a charge worse than lets say, stealing a candy bar at a store because they are an armed force who signed up for that job? If I'm misreading your point then let me know but that is just something that I find ridiculously stupid as plops, to be blunt.
You're right, we should go around shooting every cop we see. Lets not stop there, we'll get the politicians after and even the military.
I don't believe everything I see, including outlandish conspiracy theories. I haven't seen any concrete evidence that 9/11 was a false flag, and trust me I've looked into it. Neither have I seen any concrete evidence that James Holmes didn't do it or that Adam didn't either. Insane events like that that happen are covered by every angle and picked apart by every single person, and every single discrepancy is blown up by people like you. I'm not saying its a bad thing, but is the CIA and American government behind everything? It gets a little much sometimes.
In any case, really, this guy was ex-LAPD, way more credible than James Holmes or Adam Lanza, who didn't even have a cause (allegedly
), while this guy clearly has direction for his motives. What I'm saying is that if an ex-LAPD with a history of trying to expose corruption in the force would have way more credibility in trying to improve things in that said force. There's got to be something he can do, even if it takes a long time, its better than the solution he tried to take. Not everyone is corrupt. I'm not saying it works for every mass-murderer or whatever, I mean, how would Adam Lanza justify slaughtering a elementary school? What evidence would he even collect for whatever cause he has? I'm talking about this guy only, because I think his motives had at least some just cause in them.Right, letting the gangs get over confident and possibly even more violent is definitely a good result of this guy's actions.
I'm not sure who, but I'm sure that there is something else he can do other than start shooting. Who would James Holmes and Adam Lanza turn to? What would they even have to say?
I don't think its right how the media handles pretty much anything, including this. But there not far off from 2 of the 3 of those.
Where a jury alone decides the sentencing? How long do you think an appropriate time for a trial is? I'd be surprised if anyone ever got sentenced if it was that way.
I'd still much rather have no one shooting people. You seem to want to live in an anarchist country, and I don't mean that as a bad thing... it worked out well for Somalia.
I'm going to mourn police officers who die in the line of duty protecting the public from the ones who want to do harm regardless of whether its their job or not. Its certainly a job I don't have the balls for. I find I see alot of people with your mentality until you actually need cops. For this particuliar instant, I'm neutral because I don't know why these cops died and I believe this man to be of some moral standing (even though he is a murderer).
KaitoGhost
Sea Sponge First Mate
He must have been murdered before he could complete his post.
