Why do some People think Ulfric Stormcloak is Racist

Syran The Dragon · Dec 12, 2012

LongestSkies said:
lolz I like this one... The empire still has honor saying otherwise is just a cynic projecting his personal views. anyway. Thanks for the post boost.
Empire= more loot and money, and better equipment.
So pragmatics choose the empire.

Look, I joined because I don't want the argonians and dark elves being opressed by a bunch of stubborn nords who think they are better than them. To be honest, nords in windhelm (minus the non racist ones) should take a sword and stab themselves in the stomach, especially that Rolf douche.

thatwudbryan · Dec 12, 2012

FullmetalHeart20 said:
So is that how it is? Looks like honor only counts for so much with those Stormcloaks. They stick with Cyrodiil through the wars and violence, but a treaty term that's basically only enforced by the Dominion is their breaking point? That's just plain hypocritical.

Trolling and such, the 'pfft' comment

Syran The Dragon · Dec 12, 2012

Gowsh said:
I don't have lore to back this, but in general, why would a side with a decisive advantage even bother to entertain surrender? Just roll 'em up and solve your problem for a long time, IMO.

To me, this implies that the Aldmeri Dominion was facing a similar problem as the Empire in available resources to commit to battle.

Was the Empire really threatened by immediate destruction? I kind of wonder.

I would assume so. Then again if the Thalmor had the power to destroy and take over the entire continent of Tamriel, then wouldn't have needed the treaty. But (and they even say this in the game) Ulfric supporters tend to forget that it's the empire that is keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim. Also I thought this entire forum article was about how racist Ulfric was. No how the treaty gor signed.

Bull000 · Dec 12, 2012

Jersey Dagmar said:
I think your tin-foil hat is deep frying your brain. Well, if you had a brain at all.

Typical response from a progressive. Your weak. You have to argue, but you have no real substance. Drink your cool-aid.

FullmetalHeart20 · Dec 12, 2012

EVERYONE PLEASE STOP TALKING POLITICS!!!!!!! Just...take it outside.

Bull000 · Dec 12, 2012

Mr.Self Destruct said:
Anyone that has a leadership position and enforces policies of segregation based on race is a racist. Ulfric enforces laws which keep the Dunmer in the Gray Quarter and banishes beast races to live in tenements along the docks. In other words, Ulfric is racist.

No, he knows that he's better than them, and must keep them from corrupting his people.

Jersey Dagmar · Dec 12, 2012

Bull000 said:
Typical response from a progressive. Your weak. You have to argue, but you have no real substance. Drink your cool-aid.

Austin Chaos · Dec 13, 2012

Jersey Dagmar said:
You really think that they want peace? I understand there are more races in Elder Scrolls than just Man. But, seriously? People are bloodthirsty. It's in their nature.

While I agree that man, as a whole, are bloodthirsty creatures, I also know that most average people...the kind of people affected by the war rather than being the cause/reason..just want to mind their own business and live out their lives. The ones who choose to wage war have something to gain...everyone else is just a pawn caught up in the chaos. Your standard grunt soldier would just as soon be at the mead-hall as the battlefield, if that were an option.

Ned · Dec 13, 2012

FullmetalHeart20 said:
If that's the case, I'm glad that kind of society died with most of the Norse culture.
I'll say this only once. If you're a troll, please leave.

Maybe you want your fantasy video games to be hyper-sensitive, emasculate and trite like our current society. I, however, find Ulfric's way far more exciting.

And no matter how much you may disagree, it doesn't make me a troll, nor do I take kindly to the accusation.

FullmetalHeart20 · Dec 13, 2012

Ned said:
Maybe you want your fantasy video games to be hyper-sensitive, emasculate and trite like our current society. I, however, find Ulfric's way far more exciting.

And no matter how much you may disagree, it doesn't make me a troll, nor do I take kindly to the accusation.

You talk about him like that kind of behavior is actually a good idea. No matter how exciting it is, he's reckless and brash. Also, beastmen and mer are citizens of his hold and deserve his protection. Way to disregard them.

Ned · Dec 13, 2012

FullmetalHeart20 said:
You talk about him like that kind of behavior is actually a good idea. No matter how exciting it is, he's reckless and brash. Also, beastmen and mer are citizens of his hold and deserve his protection. Way to disregard them.

Within the context and canon of Skyrim, his behavior is almost entirely appropriate. Religion is not like in our reality, where it holds no consequence whatsoever. Their gods are real, and active, and visible. The signing of that treaty is blasphemy of the highest order. If the imperials will not stand against it, then it's time to take Skyrim back and defends its people and heritage. Period.

Who cares about the dunmer in Windhelm? I don't. They are meek and poor and do nothing about their treatment. Stand up against it or be squashed underfoot. There are more important things going on than a few bullied dunmer. We have an uprising to attend to.

FullmetalHeart20 · Dec 13, 2012

Ned said:
Within the context and canon of Skyrim, his behavior is almost entirely appropriate. Religion is not like in our reality, where it holds no consequence whatsoever. Their gods are real, and active, and visible. The signing of that treaty is blasphemy of the highest order. If the imperials will not stand against it, then it's time to take Skyrim back and defends its people and heritage. Period.

Who cares about the dunmer in Windhelm? I don't. They are meek and poor and do nothing about their treatment. Stand up against it or be squashed underfoot. There are more important things going on than a few bullied dunmer. We have an uprising to attend to.

If you don't care about Ulfric's racism, you do realize that you're probably in the wrong thread, right? He is the only human in canon that segregates races, far as I know.
Also, what uprising? The only reason the Empire agreed to those terms was to stop a war, and Ulfric starts another. It's the Thalmor that forced the issue. Ulfric should be fighting them, but he turns on his King and Empire? Bet he can't touch the mer so he takes it out on Cyrodiil.

thatwudbryan · Dec 13, 2012

FullmetalHeart20 said:
If you don't care about Ulfric's racism, you do realize that you're probably I the wrong thread, right? He is the only human in canon that segregates races, far as I know.
Also, what uprising? The only reason the Empire agreed to those terms was to stop a war, and Ulfric starts another. It's the Thalmor that forced the issue. Ulfric should be fighting them, but e turns on his King and Empire? Bet he can't touch the mer so he takes it out on Cyrodiil.

Whiterun and Solitude are only main holds I know of that don't 'segregate'. Riften? Dumner and Argonians live either in Haelga's bunkhouse, borderline shelter BTW, and under the city in the docks. Markath? How the people of the Reach doing on Their own land? Ulfric just gets flak for being the most obvious n colorful choice.

Ned · Dec 13, 2012

FullmetalHeart20 said:
Also, what uprising? The only reason the Empire agreed to those terms was to stop a war, and Ulfric starts another. It's the Thalmor that forced the issue. Ulfric should be fighting them, but e turns on his King and Empire? Bet he can't touch the mer so he takes it out on Cyrodiil.

By accepting those terms, they gave up, and they brought the brunt of their weakness and failure to Skryrim for the Nords to deal with.

No, I don't think so. This isn't what they fought and died for. The terms are unacceptable. War will continue until better terms are made, or one side is wiped out in the process. It's foolish to think that that joke of a treaty would have ever brought peace.

The "racism" that this thread is based on is simply a common side effect when a race or culture of people is being wronged and forced to band together. It's prejudice and distrust, but it's not truly racism. If it were racism they would be hunted down and killed or exiled just for being elves. Ulfric is merciful and kind enough to harbor potential spys and enemies, at all.

Docta Corvina · Dec 13, 2012

thatwudbryan said:
Whiterun and Solitude are only main holds I know of that don't 'segregate'. Riften? Dumner and Argonians live either in Haelga's bunkhouse, borderline shelter BTW, and under the city in the docks. Markath? How the people of the Reach doing on Their own land? Ulfric just gets flak for being the most obvious n colorful choice.

Just FYI, unless I've somehow missed testimony from NPCs stating as much, the 'segregation' you allude to in Riften is not mandated. It is not codified into local law. The Dunmer and Argonians may not be the most prosperous people in town (everyone can't be a Black-Briar), but that does not mean that they are lawfully limited to living in certain areas - which is the case in Windhelm. Really, Riften itself isn't the most glamorous or wealthy of cities and many people in it complain of economic troubles. Regardless, Windhelm's segregationist policies are unique to Windhelm.

Also, the Forsworn are not a single race, they are a group comprised of many races with Bretons making up the most substantial portion. And yes, while the Forsworn are a political force to be reckoned with, the analogy is not apt.

FullmetalHeart20 · Dec 13, 2012

Riften is a case of economics, not law. And if you mean the Forsworn, they attack people in the streets and practice cannibalism and blood drinking. Basically terrorists. In Windhelm, no matter what the Dunmer can afford or what's available, they stay in the Grey Quarter. There isn't a single reason besides not wanting them in the other districts. Also, Ulfric provides no military protection to non-Nords. Khajiit, mer, and Argonians in his hold are unprotected. Please do not argue about how everyone is racist. Ulfric is undeniably discriminating against other races.

FullmetalHeart20 · Dec 13, 2012

Ned said:
By accepting those terms, they gave up, and they brought the brunt of their weakness and failure to Skryrim for the Nords to deal with.

No, I don't think so. This isn't what they fought and died for. The terms are unacceptable. War will continue until better terms are made, or one side is wiped out in the process. It's foolish to think that that joke of a treaty would have ever brought peace.

The "racism" that this thread is based on is simply a common side effect when a race or culture of people is being wronged and forced to band together. It's prejudice and distrust, but it's not truly racism. If it were racism they would be hunted down and killed or exiled just for being elves. Ulfric is merciful and kind enough to harbor potential spys and enemies, at all.

Your thinking is truly warped. You basically described racism, and said it isn't racism. Also, please think of this realistically. If a power your nation pledged itself to agreed to a treaty term to end a brutal war, and refused to enforce it to the point that people consistently get away with breaking it, how justified is the war? There are examples of Talos faith being overlooked. Maybe yo should realize war isn't as fun as playing an RPG.

thatwudbryan · Dec 13, 2012

So Ulfric's staring a rebllion correct? He's already shorthanded and outnumbered as it is, n he has non SC supporting dunmer and argonians living in his hold with a few already leaving trails of hints of being with the Empire, paranoia can get the best of people in times such as the Civil War. I don't blame him for keeping possible spies at arms distance, while still even letting them live in his hold. As Ned said more so prejiduce and distrust than 'racism'. Trust is kinda a big deal especially considering the circumstances wouldn't you agree?

thatwudbryan · Dec 13, 2012

FullmetalHeart20 said:
Riften is a case of economics, not law. And if you mean the Forsworn, they attack people in the streets and practice cannibalism and blood drinking. Basically terrorists. In Windhelm, no matter what the Dunmer can afford or what's available, they stay in the Grey Quarter. There isn't a single reason besides not wanting them in the other districts. Also, Ulfric provides no military protection to non-Nords. Khajiit, mer, and Argonians in his hold are unprotected. Please do not argue about how everyone is racist. Ulfric is undeniably discriminating against other races.

Who are we to say thats wrong from the outside looking in if thats all the Forsworn have ever known? Well, not exactly the random attacks, which aren't without reason. Like that punk Coronado n the conquistadors comin over n F'ing the Native Aztecs (FTW!) for their personal gain n greed?

Janus3003 · Dec 13, 2012

FullmetalHeart20 said:
Maybe yo should realize war isn't as fun as playing an RPG.

THIS.
If you were an individual living in Tamriel, you wouldn't see everyone around you as an NPC who exists solely to give you a quest, be a merchant, or be cultural decoration. They'd be an individual, from friends, family, lovers, jerks, klutzes, anything and everything.
And when they die, they don't come back. You don't reload the game, you don't use the console or install a mod to bring them back. They're dead, and it's going to hurt.

Simply put, if starting an uprising just as a matter of "honor" is more important to you than your people (especially when you could still enact your rights at home), then to hell with your honor.
To me, honor is doing the greatest good for the greatest number, not just gratifying my pride.

Why do some People think Ulfric Stormcloak is Racist

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