Why do some People think Ulfric Stormcloak is Racist

thatwudbryan · Dec 12, 2012

Janus3003 said:
....um, I don't think she's raging, bro. Her jimmies remain pretty well unrustled.

I'll take a good laugh over rustled jimmies anyday of the week though

thatwudbryan · Dec 12, 2012

Docta Corvina said:
Man, that's what happens in a political debate: people have sides they strongly favor. I personally haven't seen much anti-Stormcloak postage from you, though if I've missed them, then my bad.

It'd be naive to say that the Empire totally lacks issues and I'd never argue that. But once again, for me, the issues the Stormcloaks have outweigh those of the Empire. Just how it is.

For you and others, it's different. Such is life.

For the record Im shallow as all hell in regards to the whole deal. Don't like them red 'tunics', do like blue. Don't support high powers, do support minority/rebellions. Simple as that really, much more interesting to help the weaker side than the established power IMO. Plus if they were to make a 'VS the Thalmor DLC, I'd think it'd be more fun and challenging to be a SC. I got a freakin nord mage Imperial afterall since I wanted him to be mindful and 'politcally correct' aside from my devil may care characters

Docta Corvina · Dec 12, 2012

thatwudbryan said:
For the record Im shallow as all hell in regards to the whole deal. Don't like them red 'tunics', do like blue. Don't support high powers, do support minority/rebellions. Simple as that really, much more interesting to help the weaker side than the established power IMO. Plus if they were to make a 'VS the Thalmor DLC, I'd think it'd be more fun and challenging to be a SC. I got a freakin nord mage Imperial afterall since I wanted him to be mindful and 'politcally correct' aside from my devil may care characters

You know what, fair enough.

I don't care who/what people play as or whatever. I just enjoy discussing/debating the ramifications of it, as well as the history/lore behind it. At the end of the day, the only ones with power to canonize anything are Bethesda and all of our goofy squabbling will remain an exercise in BS.

Seanu Reaves · Dec 12, 2012

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! This is great. In the end the Dark Brotherhood forever.

samgurl775 · Dec 12, 2012

Docta Corvina said:
You know what, fair enough. I don't care who/what people play as or whatever. I just enjoy discussing/debating the ramifications of it, as well as the history/lore behind it. At the end of the day, the only ones with power to canonize anything are Bethesda and all of our goofy squabbling will remain an exercise in BS.

I really admire your ability to stay calm and collected in these debates. I really wish I had your patience, but after reading a few posts I'm just like

thatwudbryan · Dec 12, 2012

Docta Corvina said:
You know what, fair enough. I don't care who/what people play as or whatever. I just enjoy discussing/debating the ramifications of it, as well as the history/lore behind it. At the end of the day, the only ones with power to canonize anything are Bethesda and all of our goofy squabbling will remain an exercise in BS.

Also, these kind of threads always have Imperial supporters out numbering SC supporters, can't have that. You startin to catch my drift?

I do however think the heart of the reason for Stormcloaks fighting (not Ulfirc himself, n saying ALL SC's fight just for Ulfric himself is ridiculous) is a just cause.

Austin Chaos · Dec 12, 2012

thatwudbryan said:
Also, these kind of threads always have Imperial supporters out numbering SC supporters, can't have that. You startin to catch my drift? I do however think the heart of the reason for Stormcloaks fighting (not Ulfirc himself, n saying ALL SC's fight just for Ulfric himself is ridiculous) is a just cause.

I'd imagine...like with any conflict...some of the SC's are in it for Ulfric, some for their beliefs, others because that's what their families did/believe, and then there's probably some who just wanted a taste of glory without dedicating their life to service of the Empire. Even if they are radicals, we need to remember that they're just people, and most of them probably want one thing only...peace.

Docta Corvina · Dec 12, 2012

samgurl775 said:
I really admire your ability to stay calm and collected in these debates. I really wish I had your patience, but after reading a few posts I'm just like

Haha, trust me, I make the same faces and gestures sometimes and then I'm like, "Aww, hell na!". And then keep going with posts. I'm a tad stubborn, this I know and admit. But the material just has me spellbound and I can't stop debating and engaging it.

FullmetalHeart20 · Dec 12, 2012

thatwudbryan said:
Also, these kind of threads always have Imperial supporters out numbering SC supporters, can't have that. You startin to catch my drift? I do however think the heart of the reason for Stormcloaks fighting (not Ulfirc himself, n saying ALL SC's fight just for Ulfric himself is ridiculous) is a just cause.

There are many ways to fight for a just cause. A Civil War is low on my list. Way I see it, the war is stupid, Ulfric started the stupid war, he must die.
But to answer the actual thread topic, he's racist because there's plenty to say so. He doesn't lift the legal segregation of the Dunmer, Argonians are assaulted for entering the city walls, and he makes no effort to protect elven and beast citizens of his own hold. All of this is established in game as canon.

Docta Corvina · Dec 12, 2012

Austin Chaos said:
I'd imagine...like with any conflict...some of the SC's are in it for Ulfric, some for their beliefs, others because that's what their families did/believe, and then there's probably some who just wanted a taste of glory without dedicating their life to service of the Empire. Even if they are radicals, we need to remember that they're just people, and most of them probably want one thing only...peace.

Very true, and well said! Yeah, I firmly believe that Bethesda wanted to make us understand that the civil war IS a very tragic thing. They made a point to show old friends Rikke and Ulfric and Galmar urging each other to get out of the way during the final battles, and old pals like Hadvar and Ralof at the start of the game interacting and you get an idea of just how terrible the conflict is for so many people of Skyrim. Can't forget that a good portion of the Legionnaires you encounter in Skyrim are actually Nords (hence widely local recruitment) - it's literally brother against brother, neighbor against neighbor. It's actually pretty wretched stuff, and Beth did well to drive that point home.

Jersey Dagmar · Dec 12, 2012

Austin Chaos said:
I'd imagine...like with any conflict...some of the SC's are in it for Ulfric, some for their beliefs, others because that's what their families did/believe, and then there's probably some who just wanted a taste of glory without dedicating their life to service of the Empire. Even if they are radicals, we need to remember that they're just people, and most of them probably want one thing only...peace.

You really think that they want peace? I understand there are more races in Elder Scrolls than just Man. But, seriously? People are bloodthirsty. It's in their nature.

thatwudbryan · Dec 12, 2012

Makes you wonder why no-one tried to pull a Thalmor on the US after the real Civil War

FullmetalHeart20 · Dec 12, 2012

Docta Corvina said:
Very true, and well said! Yeah, I firmly believe that Bethesda wanted to make us understand that the civil war IS a very tragic thing. They made a point to show old friends Rikke and Ulfric and Galmar urging each other to get out of the way during the final battles, and old pals like Hadvar and Ralof at the start of the game interacting and you get an idea of just how terrible the conflict is for so many people of Skyrim. Can't forget that a good portion of the Legionnaires you encounter in Skyrim are actually Nords (hence widely local recruitment) - it's literally brother against brother, neighbor against neighbor. It's actually pretty wretched stuff, and Beth did well to drive that point home.

Then the real question is, who's fault is this?

Ned · Dec 12, 2012

Ulfric isn't racist, he's just putting his people first and worrying about their well being above others.

Ulfric is alpha, type A, and he's getting things done. There are always unfortunates when war is being fought. So be it.

The Nords must defend their heritage, beliefs and homeland. The Imperials have failed and must turn over Skyrim to its people.

Don't like war? Are you racially sensitive? You like men in skirts? Too bad. Skyrim is for the Nords!

Janus3003 · Dec 12, 2012

Ned said:
Ulfric isn't racist, he's just putting his people first and worrying about their well being above others.

Rulers should probably count all their citizens as "their people," not just members of the same race.

FullmetalHeart20 · Dec 12, 2012

Ned said:
Ulfric isn't racist, he's just putting his people first and worrying about their well being above others.

Ulfric is alpha, type A, and he's getting things done. There are always unfortunates when war is being fought. So be it.

The Nords must defend their heritage, beliefs and homeland. The Imperials have failed and must turn over Skyrim to its people.

Don't like war? Are you racially sensitive? You like men in skirts? Too bad. Skyrim is for the Nords!

If that's the case, I'm glad that kind of society died with most of the Norse culture.
I'll say this only once. If you're a troll, please leave.

Seanu Reaves · Dec 12, 2012

isn't nord heritage the empire? you know since Talos made the empire? or am I missing something

Gowsh · Dec 12, 2012

Syran The Dragon said:
No, not ALL nords. Also the Empire had to surrender. If they hadn't, the Dominion would have destroyed the empire. So no the empire did not bring this upon themselves. Also you have to think, if you were an emperor what would be more important? Signing a treaty so you and your people could live on and not be dictated by high esteemed elves, or continuing to fight a war that you know you were going to lose.

I don't have lore to back this, but in general, why would a side with a decisive advantage even bother to entertain surrender? Just roll 'em up and solve your problem for a long time, IMO.

To me, this implies that the Aldmeri Dominion was facing a similar problem as the Empire in available resources to commit to battle.

Was the Empire really threatened by immediate destruction? I kind of wonder.

FullmetalHeart20 · Dec 12, 2012

Gowsh said:
I don't have lore to back this, but in general, why would a side with a decisive advantage even bother to entertain surrender? Just roll 'em up and solve your problem for a long time, IMO.

To me, this implies that the Aldmeri Dominion was facing a similar problem as the Empire in available resources to commit to battle.

Was the Empire really threatened by immediate destruction? I kind of wonder.

So it was bad for both of them. The Dominion put a term in the treaty that would weaken their enemy while they stepped out of the fight. Very clever!

Gowsh · Dec 12, 2012

I've kind of skimmed this subject catching up, but have I not yet read the dread words "Bear of Markarth?"

This tome definitely paints Ulfic as a less than tolerant fellow.

Why do some People think Ulfric Stormcloak is Racist

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