Do you think its cheating to change stats?

Hey all, a friend and I got into a debate on whether or not changing stats (magicka, health, stamina) is considered cheating.

In my opinion, changing stats later on in the game shouldn't be considered cheating. If anything, it would just be like if you had put points into another stat earlier on in the game.

He argues that you can do this at the cost of time, which is cheating, but once again, it is just like if you had put points into another stat earlier on in the game.

He argues that in some games, the company charges money for stat changes, which makes it worth something, but my counterargument is that most people who play games just put stat points in without really researching or learning their class. And it is because of this that many players "mess up" their stat build and are either forced to buy stat resets to fix the mistake, or continue playing. In this sense, yes, a stat change costs something, but in reality, it's just the company's way of capitalizing on the common mistakes of the people who they market their game towards. Its just a business plan of making money.

So I ask all of you fellow Skyrim players, is changing stats in game through the console considered cheating?

can you do that on xbox cause i would like to take a few points from my health and put them in my stanima. so how and when can you do this. i dont wanna use enchantments to change how much i carry.

To those of you who voted that it IS cheating, can you explain why? I can't overlook the fact that it IS exactly like if you put stats in another category before you leveled up. There is virtually NO difference at all.

Its the same concept as typing 'Power Overwhelming' in starcraft. "I messed up so therefore I will enter this in until I get back on my feet." Its not a crime but it takes away from the decision making. If you mess up, you should be punished for it. Do what you like though, you bought the game.

vincent said:

Its the same concept as typing 'Power Overwhelming' in starcraft. "I messed up so therefore I will enter this in until I get back on my feet." Its not a crime but it takes away from the decision making. If you mess up, you should be punished for it. Do what you like though, you bought the game.

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I think this is completely different. Power overwhelming IS considered cheating in that you are invincible and you have advantages in every possible way. Resetting your stats on the other hand, doesn't give you that kind of advantage. Say there was an NPC in game that magically changed your stats for you. Would this be considered cheating? If you have to "pay the price" for your mistakes, why not just load from a previous save point? It's all the same. I don't see why you see this as cheating rather than another scenario that could have happened when you play the game.

If there was an NPC that allowed it than its ok to do becuase its designed into the system. You took it upon yourself to modify the game to your benefit. Thats cheating.

vincent said:

If there was an NPC that allowed it than its ok to do becuase its designed into the system. You took it upon yourself to modify the game to your benefit. Thats cheating.

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i can see how you would consider that cheating, but try to see it my way. if you were to plan out your stats earlier wouldn't the outcome be the same?

In my definition of cheating there has to be an actual competition between myself and one or more other people who I am obtaining an unfair advantage over. This is not possible in a one player game, so it is not technically "cheating" in the universally understood sense of the word. Especially in a game that doesn't level NPCs and monsters on a linear line with my own development.

With that said, there is something additional to be said about whether or not I am cheating myself out of the whole game experience, which of course I am if I don't do the natural progression. I have to weigh that against the occasional irritation and rage quits that come with being underpowered at inopportune points in the game and the delays that come with having to work through the system to do certain things. Like surviving boss fights without reloading 18 times.

And if you ask me, THAT (reloading) is even more of a demoralizing reality than beating down bosses with help from the console. Nothing ruins the feeling that I am a success at a game faster than realizing that I haven't gotten through anything or anybody tough without saving like crazy beforehand and reloading after failure. Most immersion killing practice there is. But as it stands, most games like this are impossible to complete while only saving/reloading to leave the game and come back. In the immortal words of Peter Steele and Type O Negative, "everything dies".

So what it really comes down to is what you need out of the game to feel like you've experienced it in full. If you can do that while running through every battle like a juggernaut and reigning unchallenged throughout all of Tamriel, then nothing is off the table. If you need hardcore realism and are prepared to actually gather or earn every gold piece you get, every stat point, artifact, etc. that you get, and are willing to walk the land as meat for however long it takes to become somebody, then you know what the console will change for you.

You take your hands off the card turns over man

The issue I have with it is this. You keep saying "IF you planned out your stats earlier." or "Like IF you had put points into another stat earlier in the game." This issue is that YOU DIDN'T. If you kill somebody, you can't get away from judgment simply because you say "Oh... well... Don't arrest me because I COULD have chosen not to." It takes away the need and/or importance of making decisions in the first place if you are simply allowed to escape the consequences for those decisions one way or another. The game developers actually have stated many times that one of the aspects they are so proud of in this game is that when you make a decision, what ever it may be, there are outcomes to that decision. Some bad, some good. Some, it depends on your point of view. So If you choose to put points in health, and later decided it would have been better to put them in stamina, or magicka, then you can change and adept to your environment based on your experience. From your side of the argument, you effectively state that you stole the experience which made you come to that realization in the first place. In essence, cheated. If you want to change past decisions, start a new character and make different decisions.

Hope none of that sounded harsh or jerk-like. I mean it with respect and love But that's my 4 cents.

P.S. I am from the realism side obviously. In Diablo, I actually never saved and reloaded. If I died, I accepted that I lost that gear, and started from where I came back to life, with no inventory, no gold, and no gear. If I wanted to keep something, I put in my chest. I was always prepared to lose what I was using. It just brings a different sense of acomplishment.

When I played Morrowind on my laptop, I changed every stat to the max. in that way it was cheating,

but when u can rechoose you stat points in a different way, say you earned 20 perk points, and you just want to change the perks. i don't think that is cheating.

but when you are lvl 20, so you got 20 perk points, but you can make 100 perk points through the console. that is cheating in my opinion.

I used a perk for light armor earlier in the game and it really hasn't affected me too adversely, I think doing what you are describing could lessen your enjoyment of the game

I may be one on the outside here as a Xbox player but I have to tell you console commands are cheating there are eighty-one perk points available, this is a role playing game, single player true but you have to do the research and plan. Changing things by going and using console commands is cheating yourself. That said I would love a dlc that includes a npc that would allow me to recover some of my misplaced perks. But I want gliches fixed first.