PS3 Dawnguard might never release...

JechtFayth said:

They have components that should have already been apart of the game and all Bethesda is doing is adding other stuff like the questline that has nothing to add to the game at all.

Dragon bone weapons... Shud have been apart of game from beginning
Mounted combat... Shud have been apart of game from beginning
Houses in every hold.... Shud have been apart of game from beginning
Adoptions... Shud have been apart of game from beginning
Re image or face sculptor... Shud have been apart of game from beginning
This all adds stuff significantly to the game and story since its all about ur bar after and how to build them. That's the story of skyrim. Make ur character how u want and fight how u want to fight and make them live how u want to live

Dawnguard questline dlc
Crossbows dlc
Other random crap I may be missing
Doesn't add anything except for a flashy thing.

But it's the other components they threw in with those tiny pieces of dlc to make it seem large since they sold an incomplete game

If u look at cod and bf they sell content that always adds to the experience and it is extra. None of it needed or shud have been in it already. They don't throw pl*** they missed into dlc cause they make certain their game is 100% complete

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Your post is pretty damn funny. You are assuming because it was thought of later on that it should have been in the game initially, that doesn't make any sense; you could say that about ANY game.


In Skyrim, everything needed to do EVERY QUEST IN THE WHOLE GAME, doesn't need any other content. There are bonuses in the game that make it more interesting, but some of it isn't needed.

Crossbows and Dragonbone weapons would've been alright, but the Vampire Lord idea, adoption, house building, and horse combat weren't thought of until much later.

Call of Duty and Battlefield only add small little multiplayer maps that have ZERO depth, and are just for the same kind of games (kill each other, plant a bomb, winning team), none of it is different, none of it adds to the original game. Those maps (they are called Map Packs and not expansions for a reason) are also ridiculously overpriced for a very small amount of content, hell, even the whole call of duty series is just a rehash of last years CoD. The whole CoD series is stale with yearly releases that it degrades the genre of First Person Shooters. The quality in those games are horrible, the gameplay is boring and only offers a light new idea from a different game each year. I am surprised people continue to buy the same game each year, complain about it, and then buy all the content AND the next game. The whole reason they changed the names to Modern Warfare and Black Ops is so that the numbering system is refreshed, it is a very good marketing ploy so people don't realize how many games they have been buying within the past decade alone from ONE series (Black Ops 2 is Call of Duty 9 by the way).

A lot of map packs get made before the games are out which is why they can release 2 map packs within a month of launch, so THOSE should have been in the game. Stop being a cod fanboy and realize what the game is, and maybe next time LEARN ABOUT THE fluffING GAME BEFORE YOU TYPE AND STOP BEING SUCH A HYPOCRITE. Sell the damn game if you don't like it, and stop bitching; all you are doing is complaining and have ZERO facts.


Also, HOW HARD IS IT TO SPELL THE WORDS "your," "you," and "should?"

Call of Duty and Battlefield compared to Skyrim? their games you finish in a day, half a day and is meant to be played online, Skyrim is huge, sure they may of missed a few add ins, but they had to get the game out, people complain about "Oh this should of been in this from the start" people would of complained worse if the game was held back for several months to a year to please every single fan kid. Skyrim is a great game and a hell of a lot better than what gets made, every game has faults and Skyrim is a big game, its not going to be perfect, they can't find every bug or problem when they run the sample tests before game release. But at least Beth is working on things with patches and adding new content and trying to work with Sony to make the dlc work for the PS3, because they don't really have to, they can always go "Well this is costing us money to pay the people who work for us to try and fix this for a single console, screw it" And Playstation users can't complain that Xbox gets everything first, well its the world of business and Microsoft paid for the rights of getting it first and the world of business is never fair, to say PS3 users deserve to get some focus is just laughable, You don't deserve anything its kill or be killed in the world of game making and you're costing them to fix it for your system.

Who cares about this or that...just FIX the DAMN GAME! For f***f sakes, I've started the game from the very beginning 4 times and can't even complete the main quest! I can only get as far as entering the Blades secret lair. Once inside and looking to learn the secret of Alduin's Wall, nobody follows me in. Esburn and Delphine turn around and run out of the cave and wait outside. If I go in, they follow me, but don't go any further than the first puzzle. This is SO G*D D@MN stupid! I cannot do anything except pick up some Blades armor, weapons and such.

So, explain to me how you release a game that people can't even complete or finish.

Oh...and the FACT BETHESDA released this game makes it BETHESDA's FAULT!...but if you want to repeat yourself again, Sean_, be my guest

Doc-Z said:

Who cares about this or that...just FIX the DAMN GAME! For f***f sakes, I've started the game from the very beginning 4 times and can't even complete the main quest! I can only get as far as entering the Blades secret lair. Once inside and looking to learn the secret of Alduin's Wall, nobody follows me in. Esburn and Delphine turn around and run out of the cave and wait outside. If I go in, they follow me, but don't go any further than the first puzzle. This is SO G*D D@MN stupid! I cannot do anything except pick up some Blades armor, weapons and such.

So, explain to me how you release a game that people can't even complete or finish.

Oh...and the FACT BETHESDA released this game makes it BETHESDA's FAULT!...but if you want to repeat yourself again, Sean_, be my guest

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Read (non-critic) reviews before you buy something like any smart consumer.

Bethesda shouldn't have released it for the PS3 at all, but you didn't have to buy it.

Doc-Z said:

Who cares about this or that...just FIX the DAMN GAME! For f***f sakes, I've started the game from the very beginning 4 times and can't even complete the main quest! I can only get as far as entering the Blades secret lair. Once inside and looking to learn the secret of Alduin's Wall, nobody follows me in. Esburn and Delphine turn around and run out of the cave and wait outside. If I go in, they follow me, but don't go any further than the first puzzle. This is SO G*D D@MN stupid! I cannot do anything except pick up some Blades armor, weapons and such.

So, explain to me how you release a game that people can't even complete or finish.

Oh...and the FACT BETHESDA released this game makes it BETHESDA's FAULT!...but if you want to repeat yourself again, Sean_, be my guest

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Umm that's kind of wierd. Did you make sure to "Disarm" the floor trap thing after you cross it so the others will follow you?

Sean_ said:

Read (non-critic) reviews before you buy something like any smart consumer.

Bethesda shouldn't have released it for the PS3 at all, but you didn't have to buy it.

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You're absolutely correct about that. Still, I played Oblivion and didn't have a single problem,...NOT ONE! Based on this, I assumed Bethesda and Zenimax would have at least tested the game enough to make certain it was functional enough to complete the game. I'll be hard pressed to buy another game from them, irregardless of the platform.

Hargood said:

Umm that's kind of wierd. Did you make sure to "Disarm" the floor trap thing after you cross it so the others will follow you?

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I've gotten to the point where I have to drip blood on the floor of that temple. Both Delphone and Eisburn are there with me. As soon as the secret door opens, the two of them boogie out of there. I'm not sure what you mean about disarming the entrance to to the temple and I've consulted the guide...and I don't know what you mean, but that doesn't explain why Eisburn and Delphine run all the way out to Skyrim. I'm going to assume it's because there is just too much info. being stored or that the processors have to spool. I've sent about 4 or 5 messages to Bethesda and have NOT heard $#!T from them about why my game is so @$$ backwards. All I get is they are working on the problem.

I've spoken to the people at EB games, as well as a few of my patients who play the game. Nobody has had the number of problems that I'm having and nobody has a clue as to whts going on. I think I have close to 19 or 20 Mb of stored information for just one character I have (which is at a level 64). I have NEVER had this many problems with ANY game in my life. On top of this, the game spontaneously jams or shuts off Like the screen locks or the screen just goes black). On occasion, when I have to fight someone or something and I lose my favorited sword or bow; but I also (on occasion) have hundreds of extra arrows in my quiver...so I'm not complaining about going from having 78 to 780 Daedric Arrows at my disposal.

Also, there are no scratches at ALL on my game disc. This is SO absolutely rediculous, it's not even fun to play anymore.

Doc-Z said:

I've gotten to the point where I have to drip blood on the floor of that temple. Both Delphone and Eisburn are there with me. As soon as the secret door opens, the two of them boogie out of there. I'm not sure what you mean about disarming the entrance to to the temple and I've consulted the guide...and I don't know what you mean, but that doesn't explain why Eisburn and Delphine run all the way out to Skyrim. I'm going to assume it's because there is just too much info. being stored or that the processors have to spool. I've sent about 4 or 5 messages to Bethesda and have NOT heard $#!T from them about why my game is so @$$ backwards. All I get is they are working on the problem.

I've spoken to the people at EB games, as well as a few of my patients who play the game. Nobody has had the number of problems that I'm having and nobody has a clue as to whts going on. I think I have close to 19 or 20 Mb of stored information for just one character I have (which is at a level 64). I have NEVER had this many problems with ANY game in my life. On top of this, the game spontaneously jams or shuts off. On occasion, I have to fight someone or something and I lose my favorited sword or bow; but I also (on occasion) have hundreds of extra arrows in my quiver...so I'm not complaining about going from having 78 to 780 Daedric Arrows at my disposal.

Still, this is SO absolutely rediculous, it's not even fun to play anymore.

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Ok that explains what i was asking. The Chain to shut off the floor trap is before that, and it seems like you get past that to the Blood part, and then no further.

That is REALLY Wacky though. Those are crazy crazy bugs. I have to wonder what is happening to cause all that. I'm not saying that it's not a problem, but I haven't seen so many problems with a copy of Skyrim from anyone. ..I know you said somewhere you had to do alot of maintance on your system, do your other games play alright?

Hargood said:

Ok that explains what i was asking. The Chain to shut off the floor trap is before that, and it seems like you get past that to the Blood part, and then no further.

That is REALLY Wacky though. Those are crazy crazy bugs. I have to wonder what is happening to cause all that. I'm not saying that it's not a problem, but I haven't seen so many problems with a copy of Skyrim from anyone. ..I know you said somewhere you had to do alot of maintance on your system, do your other games play alright?

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Every Need for Speed game I have (Undercover, ProSTREET, The Run, Carbon) works without a hitch. I also have Monopoly (which is lame) but works just fine. Oblivion works and does have a few minor issues, but it's nothing major. An occsional burp or blip in the play, but by the time I notice it, it's gone. I beat Force Unleashed on this particular console.

I will say I have never had any issues with entering a body of water in Skyrim. I've read some people have issues with the game locking up when they enter water....but I have yet to experience this.

This discussion has just such a simple answer yet people are always trying to find a way to start a bloody world war III about it.
1. Bethesda made a game.
2. The game's engine worked in a different way than the PS3 was used to.
3. The PS3 freaked out.
The end.
And stop yell that it is Bethesda fault. It is not. It was a sorry inconvenience that Bethesda are trying hard to fix but can't if they do not find some sort of miracle to change how the engine works without breaking the entire game.

Doc-Z said:

Every Need for Speed game I have (Undercover, ProSTREET, The Run, Carbon) works without a hitch. I also have Monopoly (which is lame) but works just fine. Oblivion works and does have a few minor issues, but it's nothing major. An occsional burp or blip in the play, but by the time I notice it, it's gone. I beat Force Unleashed on this particular console.

I will say I have never had any issues with entering a body of water in Skyrim. I've read some people have issues with the game locking up when they enter water....but I have yet to experience this.

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I feel sorry for your problems with this, but something is really wrong with your system or your copy of Skyrim. You are right that no one should release an "Unplayable" game, but all other PS3 owners are not having all the same bugs you are having I'm afraid . You game is somehow "Really Really Unplayable" for some reason. It has to be something with your console that got messed up or many many others would be having the magnitude of problems you are having. For instance, this thread isn't about how they bought a $60 paper weight with a Skyrim logo, this is about how they are so Addicted to the Game, and are "Jonesing" for Dawnguard. I think you are having problems that are way beyond Skyrim=PS3 compatability unfortunatly.

JechtFayth said:

***Quoted post deleted by Rayven***

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It's nothing about preferring the Xbox at all, these are facts.

One part of the problem is how the PS3 has divided RAM, 256mb goes towards the CPU while 256mb goes to the GPU. That works for its first party games, but games that are multiplatform have a harder time as the PC won't have that issue and the Xbox uses a pool of 512mb RAM, so it can use that to a better extent.Skyrim needs more than 256mb of RAM to run adequately without being severely recoded. Now that the game is out, the big problem is with the DLC, which the game doesn't want to accept. If they try to recode it too much, then the game can't recognize it, but if they don't recode it then the PS3 is going to have a hard time playing it.

You talk about fanboys, and yet you are a PS3 fanboy. A fanboy is a person who ignores the facts and blindly follows the first person that agrees with them. I actually want to get a PS3, as it has some great first-party games, and I am going to get a high end PC, so your idea that I am a Xbox fanboy doesn't make sense.

Learn the hardware and software, and stop making it sound like you are an ignorant dumbass.

If you want more facts, then think about a map from a map pack as just the landscape added in DLC with Skyrim. No quests, no NPCs, no content. A map is extremely easy to make, yet they charge more for it in those games. Bethesda has to create scripts, dialogue, items, and much more, then they release the content.

I still don't even see why you are on SKYRIMforums.org when you hate the game so much.

JechtFayth said:

***Quoted post deleted by Rayven***

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No they are not obligated to release all the same stuff, Xbox version does not have mods like PC does. Also none of your facts are actual facts. You say no other open world games have the same problems, and you are right, but none of the other open world games are using the same engine as skyrim nor do they have all the same type of features as skyrim. Elderscrolls are the only open world games I know where you can enter every building or pick up pretty much anything you see. Sure GTA is open world, but you can only enter a handful of buildings and you can only pick up stuff that drops from enemies. Skyrim you can pick up an apple off of a table or a skull lying in a cave, you can then place it anywhere else that you wanna place it. You are comparing apples to razorblades. But this is my last response because I know you are just gonna give us another one of your rants where you call names and curse and swear like a 10 year old whose mommy said he can't have ice cream before supper. Many people some who even own PS3's like myself have tried to explain the issues and you just scream as loud as you can how wrong we are and that we are xbox fanboys, even the ones that own PS3. Oh and one last thing, Sony is now helping bethesda to try and get it released, so if its so simple and its just bethesda's stupidity then how come with the genius sony people helping now it still isn't out?

W

pidgeoneyepete said:

No they are not obligated to release all the same stuff, Xbox version does not have mods like PC does. Also none of your facts are actual facts. You say no other open world games have the same problems, and you are right, but none of the other open world games are using the same engine as skyrim nor do they have all the same type of features as skyrim. Elderscrolls are the only open world games I know where you can enter every building or pick up pretty much anything you see. Sure GTA is open world, but you can only enter a handful of buildings and you can only pick up stuff that drops from enemies. Skyrim you can pick up an apple off of a table or a skull lying in a cave, you can then place it anywhere else that you wanna place it. You are comparing apples to razorblades. But this is my last response because I know you are just gonna give us another one of your rants where you call names and curse and swear like a 10 year old whose mommy said he can't have ice cream before supper. Many people some who even own PS3's like myself have tried to explain the issues and you just scream as loud as you can how wrong we are and that we are xbox fanboys, even the ones that own PS3.

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Whoa! U can pick up almost anything... Big deal.
Lol telling straight up facts isn't ranting. It's bringing everything back to the basics.
But hell if people are just gonna be stupid about it and keep attempting to try and try to blame a system when there's been more than enough time to learn it. I'm done with this thread. Got better things to do than see some dunces looking for anything to try and throw blame on Sony when all that is irrelevant. I merely just swung thts back to what his thread is about and if people are too but hit about the facts I don't give a plops. That's their problem to deal with.

JechtFayth said:

W
Whoa! U can pick up almost anything... Big deal.
Lol telling straight up facts isn't ranting. It's bringing everything back to the basics.
But hell if people are just gonna be stupid about it and keep attempting to try and try to blame a system when there's been more than enough time to learn it. I'm done with this thread. Got better things to do than see some dunces looking for anything to try and throw blame on Sony when all that is irrelevant. I merely just swung thts back to what his thread is about and if people are too but hit about the facts I don't give a pl***. That's their problem to deal with.

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There is a difference between making up facts because it is your opinion and giving facts.

Fact: PS3 has divided RAM (256mb to CPU and 256mb to GPU)
Fact: Skyrim uses an older engine that is only heavily tweaked (Gamebryo renamed to Creation)
Fact: Xbox uses a pool of 512mb for both GPU and CPU, which helps compensate for games that need a bit more in either at times
Fact: Skyrim for the PS3 in the beginning was heavily laggy because of the above reasons
Fact: Still heavily laggy for high file sizes
Fact: If Dawnguard is heavily recoded to support the way the RAM is divided, Skyrim might not recognize it
Fact: Dawnguard needs to be recoded to compensate for the divided RAM
Fact: Sony is working right with Bethesda to fix the problem
Fact: You are whining

Sean_ said:

There is a difference between making up facts because it is your opinion and giving facts.

Fact: PS3 has divided RAM (256mb to CPU and 256mb to GPU)
Fact: Skyrim uses an older engine that is only heavily tweaked (Gamebryo renamed to Creation)
Fact: Xbox uses a pool of 512mb for both GPU and CPU, which helps compensate for games that need a bit more in either at times
Fact: Skyrim for the PS3 in the beginning was heavily laggy because of the above reasons
Fact: Still heavily laggy for high file sizes
Fact: If Dawnguard is heavily recoded to support the way the RAM is divided, Skyrim might not recognize it
Fact: Dawnguard needs to be recoded to compensate for the divided RAM
Fact: Sony is working right with Bethesda to fix the problem
Fact: You are whining

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Look at u still trying to find the not picky plops that's irrelevant. It's hilarious.
Bethesda has known about how the ps3 and Xbox differ and knew it would be difficult. Listening to you is the funniest plops ever.
Ain't whining either. Telling how it is. And if that's too much for you, I am sorry that its too much for you to comprehend.

They have known about how ps3 is different for 5-6 years and from sounds of it in almost all their games it has gone horribly wrong. There is no excuse for them having not learned from their mistakes.

Last time I'm gonna say. Can't type nice and slow for u to understand.... So I'll just write big...

BETHESDA CHOSE TO RELEASE SKYRIM FOR PS3
THEY KNEW THE CHALLENGES AHEAD
THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO RELEASE IT TO PS3 BUT THEY DID
THEY ARE THE ONES TO CHOOSE TO DEAL WITH A VERY DIFFERENT SYSTEM THAN THEY'RE USED TOO

so tell me... If they chose to do all this... Where is it sony's fault? They didn't force bthesda to do anything. IT WAS ALL BETHESDAS CHOOSING.

Also how did Bethesda forget what they had done for the game? Is it that hard to just do what they did with the game itself? Hrm?

Of course ur gonna say I'm ranting and whining cause u have no argument and ur posed about that lol.

If I was whining I would be complaining on a the bugs and how the game doesn't play well or whatever other whine about. I've been loving the basic game. Stay on topic dunce. I'm talking about Bethesda and the dlc not the game itself.

Good luck on your rants and plops trying to make this a fight between Xbox and ps3 and how they run. Too hilarious IMO

CANT ARGUE WITH THE FACTS JACK! Lol

JechtFayth said:

Look at u still trying to find the not picky pl*** that's irrelevant. It's hilarious.
Bethesda has known about how the ps3 and Xbox differ and knew it would be difficult. Listening to you is the funniest pl*** ever.
Ain't whining either. Telling how it is. And if that's too much for you, I am sorry that its too much for you to comprehend.

They have known about how ps3 is different for 5-6 years and from sounds of it in almost all their games it has gone horribly wrong. There is no excuse for them having not learned from their mistakes.

Last time I'm gonna say. Can't type nice and slow for u to understand.... So I'll just write big...

BETHESDA CHOSE TO RELEASE SKYRIM FOR PS3
THEY KNEW THE CHALLENGES AHEAD
THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO RELEASE IT TO PS3 BUT THEY DID
THEY ARE THE ONES TO CHOOSE TO DEAL WITH A VERY DIFFERENT SYSTEM THAN THEY'RE USED TOO

so tell me... If they chose to do all this... Where is it sony's fault? They didn't force bthesda to do anything. IT WAS ALL BETHESDAS CHOOSING.

Also how did Bethesda forget what they had done for the game? Is it that hard to just do what they did with the game itself? Hrm?

Of course ur gonna say I'm ranting and whining cause u have no argument and ur posed about that lol.

If I was whining I would be complaining on a the bugs and how the game doesn't play well or whatever other whine about. I've been loving the basic game. Stay on topic dunce. I'm talking about Bethesda and the dlc not the game itself.

Good luck on your rants and pl*** trying to make this a fight between Xbox and ps3 and how they run. Too hilarious IMO

CANT ARGUE WITH THE FACTS JACK! Lol

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I never said it was "Sony's Fault." You have to be extremely mentally retarded to ignore all facts, type like an idiot, and continue to rant.

I give plain facts. Purely unbiased facts.

The higher quality textures, the heavy tweaks to the old engine, and the division of RAM are why the game doesn't work.

Many people who only play the game on PS3 are saying the same thing. It is only you who looks like they are pissed (not posed, I didn't know I was "posed" for something) and having a temper tantrum.

Also, why the hell can't you spell? Didn't you go to elementary school?
I am so sick of this conversation, because you have proven your stupidity time and time again. You are beyond ignorant, at best you are a troll.

Trolls use logic. Nice try, though.

Sean_ said:

I never said it was "Sony's Fault." You have to be extremely mentally retarded to ignore all facts, type like an idiot, and continue to rant.

I give plain facts. Purely unbiased facts.

The higher quality textures, the heavy tweaks to the old engine, and the division of RAM are why the game doesn't work.

Many people who only play the game on PS3 are saying the same thing. It is only you who looks like they are pissed (not posed, I didn't know I was "posed" for something) and having a temper tantrum.

Also, why the hell can't you spell? Didn't you go to elementary school?
I am so sick of this conversation, because you have proven your stupidity time and time again. You are beyond ignorant, at best you are a troll.

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All you've done is talk about what differences are which most everyone knows about and it's auto correct douche lol. Ever heard of that. Ive been tired of this a long time ago.

Your trying to say facts about stuff that doesn't matter. What I've given u is the facts that they CHOSE to do everything. If you can't handle that and can't comprehend it than idk what to tell you.

God your hilarious.

And ya I'm upset about how Bethesda is treating this whole thing.

Keep looking dumb cause your doing a fine job at it

WHEN SOMEONE CHOOSES TO DO SOMETHING IT IS THEIR FAULT

U still didn't tell me where fault lies with Sony lol.

Who cares how the rams are. Yes they are different but BETHESDA CHOSE TO WORK WITH SOMETHING DIFFICULT.
How are u not able to understand such a simple concept?

Quit trying to act smart kid.

Keep trying to say oh but the ram here is different and oh they got to change blah blah.

I have more than once stated the fact it is a difficult system. But last time BETHESDA CHOSE TO WORK WITH IT.

CAN'T ARGUE WITH THE FACTS! JACK!
SOMEONE CHOOSES TO DO SOMETHING, IT'S THEY'RE FAULT

JechtFayth said:

All you've done is talk about what differences are which most everyone knows about and it's auto correct douche lol. Ever heard of that. Ive been tired of this a long time ago.

Your trying to say facts about stuff that doesn't matter. What I've given u is the facts that they CHOSE to do everything. If you can't handle that and can't comprehend it than idk what to tell you.

God your hilarious.

And ya I'm upset about how Bethesda is treating this whole thing.

Keep looking dumb cause your doing a fine job at it

WHEN SOMEONE CHOOSES TO DO SOMETHING IT IS THEIR FAULT

U still didn't tell me where fault lies with Sony lol.

Who cares how the rams are. Yes they are different but BETHESDA CHOSE TO WORK WITH SOMETHING DIFFICULT.
How are u not able to understand such a simple concept?

Quit trying to act smart kid.

Keep trying to say oh but the ram here is different and oh they got to change blah blah.

I have more than once stated the fact it is a difficult system. But last time BETHESDA CHOSE TO WORK WITH IT.

CAN'T ARGUE WITH THE FACTS! JACK!
SOMEONE CHOOSES TO DO SOMETHING, IT'S THEY'RE FAULT

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The way the ram is used plays a role in how game functions.

lol, you don't show facts, so no idea what you are talking about. This is pretty funny now. Doesn't matter who decided to work with it, and the developers don't have the full say in what happens, Zenimax does. They saw a market and then decided to go with it.

EVERY OTHER PERSON IN THIS TOPIC KNOWS FACTS EXCEPT YOU, ONLY YOU THINK YOUR OPINIONATED, UNPROVEN IDEAS ARE FACTS.

Last time I checked, autocorrect is meant to make your grammar and spelling BETTER.

When did ANYONE other than yourself say that Bethesda decided to work with something difficult? Bethesda manipulated an old engine, and that engine was not fully compatible with the PS3. The people thought they could work their way around the issue, but it proved to be more difficult than they had thought.

Who the hell is Jack?

Grow the hell up and drop it, please. Agree to disagree or something.