Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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Mr.Self Destruct

Chosen Undead
I've read it. Being Forsworn doesn't mean you aren't innocent. They have women and children too. And civilians. Igmund asked Ulfric to kill them thats why he doesn't do anything about it. Think US government and Native Americans. The local Nords, even if they cared, which they don't seem to do, can't do anything about it. They'll get thrown in jail.

You know this isn't a democracy right? The Jarl has absolute power over his subjects.

Actually, Ulfric also tortured women to find the Forsworn troops as well as killing any NORD during the attack, "If you are not with me, you are against me." That was the attitude he had during the attack, and the one he had during the attack on Whiterun.
 

samgurl775

Cerberus Officer
Wat8.jpg


Did you seriously just disregard a written dossier which predates the Dragonborn joining whichever side on the basis that he can defeat the Thalmor?

Did that sentence make sense? Because whatever you posted really didn't.
I died when I saw this picture.
 

Squirrel_killer-

The blade in the dark and the hand at your throat
Raijin:

When we say do not apply real world logic we are talking about things such as:
  • Civil rights.
  • Democracy.
  • Who can arrest who.
  • Politics in the real world being the same as in TES (Which they are not).
Things to be considered must canon and legitimate lore. Game play machnics is a weak attempt at making your self look like one eighth of the idiot you are, and the whole "you're Dragonborn so you will beat the Thalmor on whichever side you are on" argument is funny, because the next war with the Thalmor could be YEARS away.

Something you can let slide is real world military tactics. Certain things are tactics that apply game or not. And anyone who has studied history would see the similarities between Skyrim lore and history. Military tactics are something that must be considered, even if this is a game.

Now then certain things 11th Doctor said are indisputable real world or game, and I will try to simplify them how I understood them and expand on them as needed for them to be clear to you:
  • It takes time for an army that has been totaled to recover.
  • Having resources and troops is a must, real world or game.
  • People take time to fluff, raise kids, and have some of them become combatants. You still need farmers, workers, and other economic positions filled despite the need for soldiers, war or not.
And for the love of whatever deity/ies the reader of this post believes in: Jarls are EQUALS and possess absolute power over their subjects and do not possess power over one another. The only person who could really arrest Ulfric is a High King, or a Representative of the Emperor.
now I must go and leave this unfinished and eat.
 

Torok

Active Member
The Imperials, the Stormcloaks discriminate too much, well more...
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
The one problem I have about the empire is that, if you are a soldier, you cannot go above your immediate superior's head and talk to his/her boss.
 

DB Assassin

New Member
Stormcloaks. Like all the NPC's say, Skyrim belongs to the Nords! Why should the Nords throw away what they believe in just to appease the Empire?
 

El Fonz0

Active Member
Stormcloaks. Like all the NPC's say, Skyrim belongs to the Nords! Why should the Nords throw away what they believe in just to appease the Empire?
Brace yourself. 11th Doctor and Squirrel Killer are coming.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Also, what about that solitude guy that opened the gate for Ulfric? Is opening a gate for someone treason? You now Roggvir, or whatever his name is, could have been threatened or bribed to do that right?

The legion may have executed thousands of "innocents".
 

Squirrel_killer-

The blade in the dark and the hand at your throat
Brace yourself. 11th Doctor and Squirrel Killer are coming.
I was already here actually... you should watch what you... summoning 11th Doctor is a bad idea unless you want to be trolled...


Stormcloaks. Like all the NPC's say, Skyrim belongs to the Nords! Why should the Nords throw away what they believe in just to appease the Empire?
Let's get a few short things out of the way:
  1. The Empire has ruled Skyrim for a few hundred years.
  2. It's not the Empire who wants Talos banned, it's the Aldmeri Dominion, and its ruling body the Thalmor.
  3. The Talos ban is barely enforced by the Empire, and the Thalmor have a difficult time enforcing it as well.
  4. The Empire was founded by Tiber Septim, and it was the Empire, not just the Nords, who declared him a god. So it is unlikely the Empire are being "appeased" by the ban, but rather a huge ass army of Altmer that almost defeated the Empire and left it almost mortally wounded.
  5. The Nords otherwise have the same belief as the rest of the Empire, as it is sort of the state religion if you will, and I bet you that people are worshiping Talos in the other human provinces as well.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Grammar is essential if you're trying to get a point across, given, if it turns into nitpicking and someone devotes several paragraphs over another's incorrect usage of the word "whom" then in that case it does indicate weakness.

While I do agree with you that grammar is an essential to the English language, the fact to the matter is this is a gaming forum where even Rayven said on the shoutbox not that long ago that 13 year old's are welcome here. Not everyone specializes in the English language, or was taught in a good productive school. That is the reason why she removed the “Bad Grammar” pin because it was adding a false negative reputation on people who otherwise cannot help it.

If you're truly concern about ones grammatical errors then for mara's sake show your concerns in private. Be a mentor; a teacher, and do the humane thing. While it may not embarrass me, it could very well embarrass others for pointing their mistakes out in public, and not in private.

Actually, Skyrim is torn over the issue of the Civil War and this is made obvious as members of all races and ethnicities openly state whether or not they support the Empire or Ulfric. It isn't like everyone in Skyrim hates the Empire, many of them do remember that Skyrim used to be part of the Empire and that the Empire was always good to the country. Ulfric and his boys need to get their priorities set straight and realize the Thalmor are the enemy, not the Empire.

Many people in Skyrim want to be free from the shackles of the empire. They want to rule Skyrim with their Nordic traditions and laws. It is the reason why their fighting. The Titus Mede empire is severely weak, and the people in skyrim sees it. Only the strong has the right to rule, not the weak. If you listen to what Galmar says he even acknowledges that the true threat isn't the empire, but the elves themselves.

Your picture implies the Empire is stretched thin on troop strength, not that they aren't popular in Cyrodiil. The thought that a ragtag group of untrained militia who specialize in guerrilla warfare could take the offensive to trained Legionaries wearing heavy armor is both applauding and flat out stupid. Don't be unrealistic, the Empire is still the strongest fighting force in Tamriel aside from the Aldmeri Dominion. There's a difference between fighting offense and defense, the former being much harder.

A picture is worth a thousands of words. The fact to the matter is that the legate said it himself that the recruitment is scarce with very few reinforcements. They have to depend on local recruitment. If this was Tiber Septims empire then yeah, I would agree with you that they would be the strongest fighting task force in tamriel, but in fact their not because they surrendered to the A.D by signing the treaty to ban the worship of Talos. In fact they made the Aldmeri Dominion even more arrogant since they have bragging rights.

A glitch is a part of gameplay, and the reason I brought it up was because you start throwing around "Well, Ulfric must be stronger because I can use console commands!" Do I really need to explain how backwards that thinking is? The fact of the matter was that gameplay mechanics have nothing to do with written lore.

Not really a glitch is cause by incorrect script writing. It has nothing to do with the gameplay. Perhaps if Bethesda waited a bit longer to release the game, and focused on getting their plops together then maybe the company wouldn't have to put down so much money in creating patches. As far as Ulfric and his strength ability has nothing to do with the console commands, not sure why you bought that up since it's evidently clear that he successfully made the forsworn go packing when he unleashed his thu'um at them.

Did you seriously just disregard a written dossier which predates the Dragonborn joining whichever side on the basis that he can defeat the Thalmor?

If we were discussing about the book then I would take the dossier more seriously, but the fact is this is a game. With the next expansion that the company is going to publish with the war against the A.D whatever team the Dragonborn is on that team will win the war. Also nowhere does it say in the Dossier anything regarding to the dragonborn. I'm not sure they even know what a dragonborn is, and the potential danger that it can inflict on their operation. Instead of capturing the dragonborn they blatantly order their Justiciars to hunt down the dragonborn, and kill him.

TESV2012-05-0723-03-09-66.jpg


So how is he going to arrest Ulfric? It's not like he has a magic crystal ball connected to a camera hovering above Markarth.

After he takes full control of Markarth, and after an investigation to the accusations of murdering innocent people, and no I don't believe for a moment that all of the victim of the families were sent to the mine for speaking out on behalf of their dead love ones that was killed by Ulfric Stormcloak. Where do you get this information from anyways?
 

azali100

Active Member
After he takes full control of Markarth, and after an investigation to the accusations of murdering innocent people, and no I don't believe for a moment that all of the victim of the families were sent to the mine for speaking out on behalf of their dead love ones that was killed by Ulfric Stormcloak. Where do you get this information from anyways?

Perhaps Igmund doesn't care. After all, Ulfric gave him Markarth. And yes, anyone who looks into the Forsworn Incident or protests it or whatever gets thrown in jail. They threw the Dragonborn in prison just for asking around about the Forsworn for God's sake. This is why the guy at the beginning of "The Forsworn Conspiracy" says "Hey you dropped this note" and meets you in secret instead of talking about the Forsworn out in the open. He doesn't want the guards to hear. This is a Medival scociety, the Lord can do as he wishes except when the King/Emperor says he can't.

And you get this info by playing the game. Read books talk to the NPC. There's one guy in the mines who tells you his story. The Jarl came to arrest him just for speaking to Madanach once. His little girl didn't want to see her daddy go so she pleads with the Jarl not to take him away, to take her instead. They cut off her head and made him watch. Then threw him in prison anyways. Keep in mind he wasn't even Forsworn. Clearly this problem doesn't really concern the Jarl. The guy even says: The Nords didn't care who was and who wasn't involved in the Forsworn Uprising. I had spoken to Madanach once, that was enough."
 

azali100

Active Member
Also, what about that solitude guy that opened the gate for Ulfric? Is opening a gate for someone treason? You now Roggvir, or whatever his name is, could have been threatened or bribed to do that right?

The legion may have executed thousands of "innocents".

He wasn't threatend or bribed he sides with Ulfric and thinks he was right to kill Torygg. Says so himself.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Perhaps Igmund doesn't care. After all, Ulfric gave him Markarth. And yes, anyone who looks into the Forsworn Incident or protests it or whatever gets thrown in jail. They threw the Dragonborn in prison just for asking around about the Forsworn for God's sake. This is why the guy at the beginning of "The Forsworn Conspiracy" says "Hey you dropped this note" and meets you in secret instead of talking about the Forsworn out in the open. He doesn't want the guards to hear. This is a Medival scociety, the Lord can do as he wishes except when the King/Emperor says he can't.

The Dragonborn was tossed in jail for meddling in ones business that has nothing to do with him. How would you like it if a traveler, that just came into your city, started shoving his nose to business that doesn't belong to his, and started stirring up trouble within the community that's already having a forsworn problem as it is? The Dragonborn was warned by guards to back off, and yet he still ignored the warnings. What do you expect to happen? It's best to mind your own business or something bad may happen to you as a result of your curiosity :)

And you get this info by playing the game. Read books talk to the NPC. There's one guy in the mines who tells you his story. The Jarl came to arrest him just for speaking to Madanach once. His little girl didn't want to see her daddy go so she pleads with the Jarl not to take him away, to take her instead. They cut off her head and made him watch. Then threw him in prison anyways. Keep in mind he wasn't even Forsworn. Clearly this problem doesn't really concern the Jarl. The guy even says: The Nords didn't care who was and who wasn't involved in the Forsworn Uprising. I had spoken to Madanach once, that was enough."

If only Bethesda and Steam can hire me to play Skyrim I would be trilled :) Madanach is the enemy of the reach. He is the leader of the forsworn; the king of rags. What business did that guy had when he paid a visit to the man? It couldn't be just some social call. Funny how the NPC never got into any details of the reason behind it. Lets face it if an American was caught speaking with Osama bin laden, only once... no doubt will this American be arrested, and potentially executed for high treason. If you're caught talking to the enemy you're bond to get severely punished.

Remember the reach is at war with the forsworn.
 

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