DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Do the Mages get a lot of hate?
Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
- Start date
Yimir Skallagrimson
Member
Not get fruits thrown at them or burned at the stake, but any Skyrim SJW will get there slice of delicious oppression to be outraged about.
Segregation? Check.
Supervision by the government to hamper " undesired behavior"? Check.
Official registration records of the oppressed party? Checkers
Manhunts for those outside the registry? Checkaroonie.
To top it all of, Elves are second class citizens ans usually slaves. Icing on the cake for any SJW.
Play DA and you'll see why Ulfric is small potatoes.
Segregation? Check.
Supervision by the government to hamper " undesired behavior"? Check.
Official registration records of the oppressed party? Checkers
Manhunts for those outside the registry? Checkaroonie.
To top it all of, Elves are second class citizens ans usually slaves. Icing on the cake for any SJW.
Play DA and you'll see why Ulfric is small potatoes.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Given Skyrim's current attitude for Mages, this could be the start of an anti-Mage movement in fantasy games.
We shall not go without a fight.
We shall not go without a fight.
Lewsean
Member
Indeed, but it seems if me and you weren't going at it this topic would be kind of stale right now.
TheQahnaarin
Son of Skyrim
The person who owns the farm still lives in the Gray Quarter, oops there goes your argument.
The Argonians are also segregated. You can call it segregation because the Dunmer and Argonians are separated from everyone else.
Dismiss the other comments? He's been facing racial hatred from the locals, why would he care about the people who treat them like lesser beings? Do the Stormcloaks say nice things about the Thalmor?
You even seen a Dunmer farmer off to join the Empire, because of how he's being treated. He wouldn't have the club without Nords? He owns a business and pays taxes to the city. He doesn't get handouts.
Windhelm has been their home for nearly two hundred years, they've established themselves there. It isn't just that they "complain" they have justified concerns, and bring it to the Jarl.
Why should they have to leave, because they don't like being treated like pl***? It should be the Stormcloaks who should be getting over themselves and stop treating them like second class citizens.
They were refugees two hundred years ago. They all work, and have businesses in Windhelm. Could have moved along when they first arrived?
There is cause for optimism, though, as Jarl Ulfric is not nearly so tolerant of these substandard beings as his fathers were. - Scourge of the Gray Quarter
Being given something two hundred years ago, doesn't mean Ulfric and the Stormcloaks can take credit for it. The Dunmer are owed being treated like everyone else, they work and some provide Windhelm with food.
They were refugees two hundred years ago. They all work and sustain themselves, Ulfric doesn't pay for them, he doesn't feed them and clothe them while they sit around doing nothing. Cities require maintenance, buildings need repaired or they face the problem of collapsing. Windhelm is thousands of years old, it needs repairs often.
If life is as bad as they say it is in Windhelm they would just pick up and leaveObviously there situation right now is better than any alternative, they're just a whiney bunch of lazy leeches. Well most of them are, and the ones that aren't are flourishing, what a surprise...
They're not lazy, they all bloody work. Get that into your head, point to me a single "lazy leech" in the Dunmer population?
You can't, because you have none. They're asking to be treated like everyone else, because they're citizens too. Their requests are actually basic, they're not asking for change instantly.
They want Ulfric to just take a look at their situation, and they want the Gray Quarter to be renamed back to the Snow Quarter.
Not yet, but should Rolff gets his way: "Wouldn't surprise me. They've done nothing to help in the fight for Skyrim's freedom. Those Thalmor are elves, too. I bet they're working together. Maybe I should round up some men and take us a few prisoners to interrogate."
"Soon we'll rid Skyrim of elves, their bloody Justiciars, and the Jarls in their pockets. The whole damn lot of them. And we'll cleave through the Legion to get to them."
Legion soldiers are randomly generated between Imperial, Nord, Breton and Redguard.
"When the sons of Skyrim would spill their own blood."
Seren: "I'm just worried about raising a child in the middle of this war of yours."
Rustleif: "War of mine? It's not my war, Seren!"
Seren: "Your people's war, I mean. The Nords. What kind of life would we be giving our little one if we stayed here?"
It is a Skyrim Civil War. The Legions got involved recently, the Holds were warring for years.
Windhelm was built with Snow Elf slaves, thousands died building it. Slavery was common in Tamriel, it was only the Third Empire that outlawed it. Every province had slaves, Morrowind had slaves because it was allowed by Tiber Septim.
The Dunmer haven't practiced slavery in over two hundred years, prior to the Oblivion Crisis. Slavery was ended and the slaves returned home.
So Ulfric banished the Argonians because he believes them to be all skomma addicts?
Khajiit merchants aren't allowed in any Nordic city, it is what the Nord Jarls have chosen to do. Has nothing to do with the Empire's policies.
The Empire isn't fully involved because it has no reason to be, Ulfric can't even risk upsetting Cyrodiil because he can't afford an all out war with the Empire.
The Empire doesn't lack troops to be tied down on the Aldmeri Dominion's border, it isn't just "fortify it!" they're camped out down there waiting for orders. The Empire dealt with the rebellion, Ulfric Stormcloak had been captured and was about to be executed...
The reason there is a large lack of reinforcements is due to Pale Pass being blocked from an avalanch. The Empire is clearing it, and as mentioned from the Stormcloaks themselves. A new Imperial force is assembling to the south, coming to march into Skyrim.
Looks like that counts as, oh my god, could it really be? Reinforcements. The only pathetic thing is somehow you expect that the Empire if they were thinking logically, would hand Skyrim to Ulfric Stormcloak. The Empire believes the Thalmor are behind the Civil War, you don't hand a province to a group you think the Thalmor are behind.
I blame them for being seduced by a charismatic politician who seeks the throne, no matter the cost.
No they're not. Most of the Legion in Skyrim aren't Imperials, they started local recruiting to boost their numbers. Nords have been joining the Legion for a long time.
The Legion soldiers you come across do have those fighting for their beliefs. Each side comments on why they joined their faction.
Stormcloaks you meet, some mention they only fight because "I'm a True Nord, simple as is"
You have a real uninformed bias going, since the local recruited are farmers and merchants, just like the Stormcloaks. Both sides are a Militia from locals. You hear Legion soldiers go on about "I couldn't stand by and watch the Stormcloaks tear everything apart"
So you feel bad about killing Stormcloaks who believe in their cause, but have no issue killing the Legion who believe in theirs?
The Thalmor do just hate anyone, if you're not one of them, you're nothing to them. Raijin, a single Thalmor embassy and a prison isn't an invasion. They don't have large numbers in Skyrim.
The Nobles and Jarls put on a show Raijin, anytime they're speaking about lasting peace between the Thalmor and Empire they're being sarcastic, which even the game files mention "Doesn't believe a word of it"
The parties are just the Thalmor being dicks.
"I swear Elenwen holds these parties just to make the Empire look bad. Almost makes me want to join the Stormcloaks."
They don't need protection, they're hidden inside a fortress that has been lost since the Second Era. Unless the Thalmor manages to get the only copy of a book that Esbern has, they won't find it.
Delphine also isn't stupid enough to be followed, and if the Thalmor discovered them. They would need an army to get them out of that fortress, and the Empire stands between them for that in either victory.
The Blades are also against the Greybeards, so I don't think the Nords would be quick to side against the Greybeards.
That alone almost makes me rage quit this thread.
They're in Skyrim because of the White-Gold Concordat, their increased presence is due to the rebellion. (mainly because they're sending supporters flocking towards Ulfric with their large inquisition)
I do think what the Empire did was right, they barely survived the last war.
The Thalmor don't get angry, they knew the Empire wouldn't enforce the ban from the get go. They don't care about that, they wanted to plant the seeds for Ulfric's uprising. The Thalmor care about taking over Tamriel, weakening Skyrim and the Empire is the best solution.
Skyrim and the Empire represent the only organized threat against them.
Chances are they've already won.
Yes, there are a few legionnaires who fight for their beliefs, but the Cyrodiilic ones and the mercenaries/professional soldiers (Tullius says so in Windhelm) who are there for the fun of it or pay, they are basically an invading force. And what are those legionnaires fighting for? They say they couldn't stand by and watch the stormcloaks gain independence? It's not your problem. Plus most of the Nord legionnaires left to join the stormcloaks (Galmar and rikke say so at korvanjund). You keep coming back to how a united empire is the only hope against the thalmor, but why should nords and redguards who were basically betrayed by the empire help Cyrodiil especially when the empire is uniting by force. How enthused are nords gonna be to go enrol to help Cyrodiil in a second war, after the legion killed so many of them and outlawed talos and all that. Maybe you remember wulf, from morrowind? Supposedly Talos himself?
"The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
The Empire must remain to protect giants. Less Skald have his wish and try drive them from the Pale.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
No. Many in the Legion serve in the Legion because they believe in preserving the Empire. Some join to see the world, others because it was tradition. But it doesn't mean they don't believe what they're fighting for.
Mercenaries are mercenaries, they're not Legion. Tullius says so in Windhelm? He mentions double pay to the widows of lost soldiers...
There are very few from Cyrodiil proper, many are locally recruited. The ones who say they joined recently because they couldn't watch the Stormcloaks tear everything apart? That is their problem, they live in Skyrim and believe in the Empire.
To actually claim that the Stormcloaks believe in their cause while those in the Legion don't, not only is it biased. It is just utterly false.
Many Nords in the Stormcloaks are ex Legion. Skyrim's Legions are in Cyrodiil, what you're fighting is skeleton garrisons and locally recruited militia.
It is funny how there actually are Nord and Redguard Legionnaires fighting against the Stormcloaks. Cyrodiil isn't uniting by force, the Stormcloaks chose to attack the Western Holds, Ulfric chose to kill High King Torygg.
Forced independence on those that don't want it is still a form of oppression. The Redguards stand a better chance of coming to terms with Cyrodiil than they ever would Skyrim.
Recruitment for the Legion is actually going good in Skyrim, large numbers of those who recently joined. It also has nothing to do with "enrolling" the Legions from Skyrim, those mostly Nord Legions are already in Cyrodiil. If the Nords affected by Civil War want to sit out, then that just screws you up. The Nords are fighting each other, many families have been torn apart.
Tullius doesn't need to build up an army in Skyrim, they have no plan to. It is the Stormcloaks who need to build their army up, train them and what not. The Empire's army is already in position. Some people will probably join up, but the Legion only needed them for the rebellion while the main forces were tied up.
Nice, except that was over two hundred years ago. There was change, called the Stormccrown Interregnum. Many things in the Empire changed from the Septim Dynasty. But, the words of a slaver, liar and conqueror don't hold much sway with me.
Besides, lovely Tiber was smart enough to use the Nords as one does a tool.
For brief periods, one ruler has managed to unite all of Skyrim, but the Nord character is one essentially of conflict, and the confederacies never last. The Cyrodilic Empire and later the Septim Empire was able to take advantage of this tendency... - Pocket Guide to the Empire
Maybe you remember Dengeir and Laila, two of your political supporters.
"I'm no man's fool. I know Ulfric Stormcloak's selfish and power-hungry, but he's the devil I know. Does that put it plain enough for you?" - Dengeir
"With the Stormcloaks at his back, Ulfric's poised to rid Skyrim of the Empire's forces and invalidate our involvement with the White-Gold Concordat. Between you and I, I think his motivations are a bit more self-serving. He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne. If he were to be crowned High King, I'm not so certain it would be the golden age his followers expect." - Laila Law-Giver
Lewsean
Member
Jarl Balgruuf is taking action against Giants too
"There's been talk again in the streets. A general fear that the giants may move south, and then... Well, you understand." - Proventus
"Hmm... All right, yes, I see your point. Make the necessary arrangements." - Jarl Baalin
You repeat this so many times, yet it holds no bearing whatsoever. The soldiers you kill are Imperial's, not Nords.
TheQahnaarin
Son of Skyrim
Ok first I'll admit it was wrong of me to say legionnaires aren't fighting for anything, that's not right. What I meant more was that the majority Stormcloaks aren't fighting for the sake of fighting and probably less so than legionnaires (also before taking windhelm tullius says they are professional soldiers not mercanaries) , as evidenced by Sophie they are parents, Galmar talks about how they are regular citizens, even Gerdur says she would join if she were younger. The fact Laelette uses joining as her cover when she joins up with movarth successfully further hints that this is a pretty normal thing for normal citizens to do these days.
And the Mede dynasty is not all that different. Same elder council, and name one positive change that happened from the Medes replacing the Septims. Not sure why you dislike Tiber, try to do what he did without any controversies. Would you rather there'd never have been an empire? And slavers, well the precious dunmer you've been defending so much were much more involved in slavery. Sure, not anymore but by the days of Uriel neither were the Septims.
Of course Ulfric is power-hungry, everyone knows that. I support his cause way more than I do him. Tiber was power-hungry, Titus the first was power hungry, the last dragonborn is power hungry. But if the power hungry fella knows what he's doing, thing turn out.
Last edited:
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Jarl Balgruuf is taking action against Giants too
"There's been talk again in the streets. A general fear that the giants may move south, and then... Well, you understand." - Proventus
"Hmm... All right, yes, I see your point. Make the necessary arrangements." - Jarl Baalin
They're not killing them, but preparing in case. Giants are protected by the Empire unless they kill innocents.
The soldiers are randomly generated between the selected races. You could play the game and never see a single Nord Legionnaire. You could create a new character and see only Nords.
The point you Stormcloaks fail to grasp, is you've taken one experience and without anything to back it up have claimed they're all Imperials. All Legion guards in cities are Nords.
'They have enlisted our own countrymen to their cause.' - Nords Arise!
"This is what you wanted? Shield brothers and sisters killing each other? Families torn apart? This is the Skyrim you want?!" - Legate Rikke
"It was you who fought your kin who didn't understand our cause, who weren't willing to pay the price of our freedom." - Ulfric
"Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now." - Sybille
"When the Son's of Skyrim would spill their own blood." - Elder Scroll Prophecy
Lewsean
Member
No lmao, most legion troops are Imperials no matter what... If it was purely nord vs nord do you really think they'd randomly generate the race? There'd be no need too..Jarl Balgruuf is taking action against Giants too
"There's been talk again in the streets. A general fear that the giants may move south, and then... Well, you understand." - Proventus
"Hmm... All right, yes, I see your point. Make the necessary arrangements." - Jarl Baalin
They're not killing them, but preparing in case. Giants are protected by the Empire unless they kill innocents.
The soldiers are randomly generated between the selected races. You could play the game and never see a single Nord Legionnaire. You could create a new character and see only Nords.
The point you Stormcloaks fail to grasp, is you've taken one experience and without anything to back it up have claimed they're all Imperials. All Legion guards in cities are Nords.
'They have enlisted our own countrymen to their cause.' - Nords Arise!
"This is what you wanted? Shield brothers and sisters killing each other? Families torn apart? This is the Skyrim you want?!" - Legate Rikke
"It was you who fought your kin who didn't understand our cause, who weren't willing to pay the price of our freedom." - Ulfric
"Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now." - Sybille
"When the Son's of Skyrim would spill their own blood." - Elder Scroll Prophecy
Vladimir dracula
New Member
You know i usually go with imperial s because Ulrich just blew it out of proportion like labor said it wads good till ulfric riled up everybody not to mention what his soldiers do to women
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
"Her daughter was sent to Whiterun, the skirmishes there have been violent. The whiterun [sic] legate, he needed to know the Stormcloak positions. He sent out a party to scout the area. They happened upon a large force... I'm told none of them made it back. Private Morrard... Angela's daughter was in that scouting party. She needs to be told." - Captain Aldis about a shop keepers daughter
"Both my parents were in the Legion. There was... an ambush." - Blaise (Hearthfire child)
It is on both sides.
They're all regular citizens. Laelette's husband is a Stormcloak supporter most likely, you don't tell you're husband you're off to join the Legion to hide suspicions.
Elder Council has been around since the First Era. I'm sure I could find some positive outcome in the novels, but for now I guess using an in game book would be the Empire was saved from a really bad person named Emperor Thules the Gibbering.
Tiber is Tiber, he did after all knock out his mistress and kill the unborn child against her will. I don't like the Dunmer, but they have valid complaints, so do the Argonians which you ignore.
And the Stormcloaks practice slavery now.
Titus the First knew what he was doing, and he did it well.
Skyrim under Ulfric, with no real plans or strategic ability are taking their entire army to the Thalmor. The Nords alone can't face the Thalmor, so you'll need the Empire anyway to even reach them. Ulfric has been captured by the Thalmor and by the Empire, not exactly something you want by someone leading you into war.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Actually there is a need, because it shows more races support the Empire. It isn't purely Nord vs Nord, I've never stated such a thing. Though if we get technical, for years it actually was Nord vs Nord. The Stormcloaks were fighting between the other Holds in small skirmishes, years before the Legion stepped in.
The Civil War is Skyrim fighting itself, many Nords on both sides. Cyrodiil and Skyrim are not at war, Ulfric himself states he can't afford all out war with the Cyrodiil.
You come across Imperial, Nord, Breton and Redguard Legionnaires. Also an Altmer and Dunmer Legate.
Bethesda did that for a reason.
Tying into the Legion's versatility is its non-discriminatory policy of recruitment. The Legion recruits individuals of all races and creeds into its ranks and benefits from the diversity of skills they all bring (although men form the vast majority). - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Imperial_Legion
Lewsean
Member
Yes I know the Legion is racialy diverse, but you said there isn't a legion in Skyrim it's just auxilleries, if that was the case then Bethesda would've made them all Nords.
Jurgarik Greycloak
Techno master of Tamriel.
Honestly, can you two stop arguing over the legion's composition. It does not really matter who is where in terms of race/faction loyalty. You can have a Dunmer fighting the Empire (even if you do not join the rebels), as much as a Nord allying with the Imperials.
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
In the mean while Giants are terrorizing farmers and bullying them. Forcing farmers to give them cattle in exchange for them not to bothering them. They can be very problematic that can warrant a bounty from EACH hold, and not just the Pale.
"The cow, of course. Others do it differently, but I've found that an annual offering usually keeps the giants away from our livestock. Some think it's superstition, but I believe it works. I've yet to have a giant kill any of my livestock."
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
It's the first step in invading
Guess who's protecting the Thalmor from getting attacked by the Stormcloaks? I don't think it was a show nor thought it was an act of sarcasm. These Nobles strength is not picking up a sword and fight but rather have a unique strength and skill to make money, and to become who they are. The Thalmor are a wealthy faction. They're also very powerful indeed. Why do you think Maven is embraces them?
http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc17d
"We have a relationship of mutual respect."
"I care little about the politics and rivalries between the Thalmor and the Empire."
"But I do respect power, and the Thalmor have that. They leave me alone, and I leave them alone."
Where does it say in the data "Doesn't believe a word of it?" Please elaborate it.
"Look around the room and you'll see what we're up against. Just between you and me, a lot of what Ulfric says about the Empire is true."- General Tullius
Do you honestly expect the 2 last remaining of the blades to hide inside of the fortress for ever? They need to go out and recruit more members to join their organization to regain back their power and strength., not to mention bringing back food and other surviving tools. Unless if Delphine or Esbern has a mutual relationship with the forsworn, they also have them to deal with as they have encampments set up right outside from the fortress.
The Blades are not against the Greybeards but respectfully disagree with their practice.
http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00075097
"If they had their way, you'd do nothing but sit up on their mountain with them and talk to the sky, or whatever it is they do. The Greybeards are so afraid of power that they won't use it. Think about it. Have they tried to stop the civil war, or done anything about Alduin? No. And they're afraid of you, of your power. Trust me, there's no need to be afraid. Think of Tiber Septim. Do you think he'd have founded the Empire if he'd listened to the Greybeards? " - Delphine
I hate the Blades with a passion, but I am obligated to agree with them regarding to the Greybeard situation considering the fact that Arngeir didn't seem to have a care in the world that people below him were being slaughtered by Alduin. In fact he was giving the Dragonborn a hard time, and keeping secrets from that can be used to stop Alduin.
You know I'm right, don't deny it
I don't see you rage quitting this thread. You're as obsessive of this thread as I am. You can try, but your blood brings you back here.
Like I said before they're in Skyrim because the Empire wasn't enforcing the ban of Talos. The Thalmor has Justiciars that's specifically for hunting down Talos worshipers.
http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc225
"I lead the Justiciars. We are charged with enforcing the ban on Talos worship.Nords can be quite stubborn. They're slow to change their ways, and we find more heretics every day.But mark me well -- I will purge the heresy from this land as surely as the flame burns the flesh from the bone." - Ondolemar
http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000e16f4
"As long as the Empire continues to uphold its treaty obligations, my government does not concern itself with the internal politics of Skyrim." -Elenwen
Their increased presence has nothing to do with the rebellion. For as long as the Empire holds their part of the bargain, and not violate the White-Gold Concordat like they did the last time the Thalmor is going to stay out of the civil war between the Stormcloaks and the Imperials.
What planted the seed for Ulfric's uprising was the birth of the White-Gold Concordat. Say thank you to your precious Empire for that.
Last edited:
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
Lewsean
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Mages in Thedas generally dicks
? They need blood phials to keep a track of every single one of em' to make sure they don't cause trouble lol. And after a certain quest in DA:2, you can choose to help the mages yet
They end up doing the wrong thing anyways and you need to help the Templars
