Elder Scrolls: Clash of Civilizations?

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HelloMyNameIsEd

He-Who-Killed-Ulfric-Stormcloak-With-A-Broom
Alright, so now that I've got your attention with the title, I want to tell you guys something. I really like "What if?"/Alternate History situations. I think they're an interesting way to imagine how things could end up so much differently if even so much as a single event fails to happen; for example, one of people's most interesting thoughts is what would have happened if the Allies lost World War 2. I've thought of a couple myself, but one really stands out amongst the others, and I want to share it with you: What would happen if a major colonial-era power from Earth's history managed to make contact with the empires of Tamriel?

I want to know what you guys think would happen if a colonial-era (say maybe 1700's or 1800's in Earth's history; when muskets and cannons were still being used) power suddenly finds a way to reach Tamriel. Would they open up trade with these new empires reminiscent of medieval-era civilizations? Trade guns and gunpowder to the natives of Tamriel — as was done with the Native Americans in the US — in exchange for enchanted or magical items for the colonial powers of Earth?

Or would imperialist ambition from Earth's civilizations spur them to grab land anywhere they can get it, and declare war against a peoples much less technologically-advanced than them in hopes of what they would see as a one-sided victory? Perhaps the Aldmeri Dominion gets on the wrong side of the English and spark a war; perhaps that war proves costly to England and weakens them on Earth, and eventually they may be toppled by another colonial empire (say, France?) and prevent their rise as a World Power; perhaps that war weakens the Thalmor and makes their power in Tamriel slip to the point that they collapse and England seizes control of the Summerset Isles, marking an era of permanent English establishment in Tamriel? Maybe even late-19th century America, acting on manifest destiny, can make an appearance.

It's pretty cool to imagine how things might turn out differently for both worlds, how the interaction between completely different civilizations can unfold: one where magic is commonplace and divine entities are a very real concept, the other where technology is valued over superstitions, and where gods are about faith and not magic. The very existence of one world goes against that of the other, and everything each thought they knew about the world would be called into question.

tl;dr What would happen if a colonial power from Earth meets the civilizations of the Elder Scrolls?

Go wild!
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Alright, so now that I've got your attention with the title, I want to tell you guys something. I really like "What if?"/Alternate History situations. I think they're an interesting way to imagine how things could end up so much differently if even so much as a single event fails to happen; for example, one of people's most interesting thoughts is what would have happened if the Allies lost World War 2. I've thought of a couple myself, but one really stands out amongst the others, and I want to share it with you: What would happen if a major colonial-era power from Earth's history managed to make contact with the empires of Tamriel?

I want to know what you guys think would happen if a colonial-era (say maybe 1700's or 1800's in Earth's history; when muskets and cannons were still being used) power suddenly finds a way to reach Tamriel. Would they open up trade with these new empires reminiscent of medieval-era civilizations? Trade guns and gunpowder to the natives of Tamriel — as was done with the Native Americans in the US — in exchange for enchanted or magical items for the colonial powers of Earth?

Or would imperialist ambition from Earth's civilizations spur them to grab land anywhere they can get it, and declare war against a peoples much less technologically-advanced than them in hopes of what they would see as a one-sided victory? Perhaps the Aldmeri Dominion gets on the wrong side of the English and spark a war; perhaps that war proves costly to England and weakens them on Earth, and eventually they may be toppled by another colonial empire (say, France?) and prevent their rise as a World Power; perhaps that war weakens the Thalmor and makes their power in Tamriel slip to the point that they collapse and England seizes control of the Summerset Isles, marking an era of permanent English establishment in Tamriel? Maybe even late-19th century America, acting on manifest destiny, can make an appearance.

It's pretty cool to imagine how things might turn out differently for both worlds, how the interaction between completely different civilizations can unfold: one where magic is commonplace and divine entities are a very real concept, the other where technology is valued over superstitions, and where gods are about faith and not magic. The very existence of one world goes against that of the other, and everything each thought they knew about the world would be called into question.

tl;dr What would happen if a colonial power from Earth meets the civilizations of the Elder Scrolls?

Go wild!
No. If I want that I'll stick with Assassins creed. Part of the joy, to me of SR is the medievalist setting. Besides - how would magic come in to the whole picture. I don't care if you have a musket or an uzi - there is no way you're gonna stand up to being spammed with fireballs or getting struck by lightning from above. Firearms in games are just lazy. They take no skill at all.

To answer the question. The Colonial powers would be destroyed utterly and I, for one, would relish it. Colonialism, in my opinion is evil, as was "Manifest Destiny". Just because a country believes that they are better than everyone else and have the right to simply take over whatever they want (by any justification) does not make it right. We have one of those in SR - it's called the Aldmeri Dominion and I can pretty much guarantee that no one actually believes they are in the right (except, of course for the Dominion).
 

ColleenG

When in doubt, follow the fox.
Interesting ideas about colonials in Tamriel. I don't know what might happen in the beginning, but I can assure you that in the end, there will be a great war to defeat the colonials. They had a habit of stepping on and destroying any new culture they came across, right?
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Interesting ideas about colonials in Tamriel. I don't know what might happen in the beginning, but I can assure you that in the end, there will be a great war to defeat the colonials. They had a habit of stepping on and destroying any new culture they came across, right?
Of course we can't forget that the Dominion does the same thing. I see way too many comparisons with the Nazi's and the Domnion. It would probably me more appropriate to compare with Colonialist Britain and the US Manifest Destiny and current role than Germany.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Imperials colonize one of the moons apparently. But MK's texts are usually strange at best.
 
My guess is the Thalmor would either really quickly would have to develop spells that can efficiently be on at all times to deflect bullets or face the Gatling and canons :p
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Imperial Legion can already fly and march under lakes via Mages attached to the armies. Giving them guns would create terminators.
 

HelloMyNameIsEd

He-Who-Killed-Ulfric-Stormcloak-With-A-Broom
I agree that perhaps it would not be a good idea for an actual game to have Colonials in Tamriel, but I'm thinking more of just the concept as an idea rather than how it would be implemented as a video game.
 

Rhew

The missing snow elf
I also agree that it wouldn't be a good idea to bring colonials into the game but the idea is interesting to think about. i think it would depend on where the colonials arrived in Tamriel. I don't think they would ever see beastfolk like Argonians or Khajiit as humanoid. Might try and make them slaves or just kill them off. I also think they would think of themselves higher than the Mer based on the differences in looks. Bosmers would be seen as savages. The colonials may even see Dunmer as evil because of their skin and eyes (And burial practices). The Altmer may be seen as a little more civilized and therefore the colonials might actually try to make a trade treaty with them. (Maybe). They would see the Imperials as the most "normal" but still technologically behind the colonials based on their progress. The Redguard as barbarians. (I don't know enough about the Bretons to get a good feel of how colonials would treat them). The Nords would be seen as a type of barbarians as well.

I think the biggest things would be the magic and different deities. Magic would obviously be seen as witchcraft and anyone who used it would be seen as workers for Satan. The different deities would be seen as satanic as well. The colonials would force their view of christianity onto Tamriel.

In the end, the colonials wouldn't know how to protect themselves from magic seeing how we don't have it here on Earth and would die through some type of battles. They would probably have a little influence in the end though bringing new weapons and a new god to the world.
 

HelloMyNameIsEd

He-Who-Killed-Ulfric-Stormcloak-With-A-Broom
Most of your point seems pretty logical, Rhew. Though the one thing that I really wonder is if the fact that the Empire pretty much seems like the Roman Empire at a glance would give the colonials a huge reason to pause: the Roman Empire was basically the mark of Western Civilization, influencing the culture of Britain, France, and many more. They would be extremely hesitant to attack a civilization that is almost a spitting image of their own history, and one that helped influence the culture of their own nations.

People keep saying that the colonials would stand no chance against magic. The fact that magic is powerful may be true, but magic has its limitations. Spells cost magicka, and extremely powerful spells require very skilled mages to cast continuously for long periods of time. From what I've read of how war is conducted in Tamriel (lore books of different types) it seems that there is still a very large reliance on melee weapons — which would probably be indicative as to how readily available powerful wizards are. Perhaps a group of mages would be dangerous to an army of foot soldiers, but they're still just infantry whose accuracy and lethality is dependent on how far they are from the target and who are vulnerable in close quarters to melee attack: somewhat similar a situation to artillery, except that the mages are much more mobile and reliable, but cannot be mass-produced like a cannon can.
 

Rhew

The missing snow elf
Ah, yeah I see your point. I don't really think the colonials would attack the Imperials. I believe if there were battles it would be between a different class. Who knows, maybe the colonials would make a treaty with the Imperials. They may stand a chance in Tamriel then.

And for me with the magic, I view it as when the fighting does start the colonials may have the upper advantage having guns and cannons. At some point the other side will use magic in some way and will learn that the colonials don't know what it is or how to defend themselves from it. (I'm just basing this off of how natives reacted to seeing guns for the first time when Europeans came to America). The group would bring in an abnormal amount of mages to attack since magic would be a weakness (if they have the resources of course). But this is just how I think it could happen. :)
 

The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass

Sahrot Vahlok Spaan. Bahnahgaar. Minion #88!
Staff member
Magic is not the automatic win most of you seem to think it is. While the colonials have no effective defensive measure against magic, Tamriel has no effective defensive measure against bullets and cannons. Even a dragon would be absolutely ripped from the sky if it was hit (with many bullets, granted, but a cannon would definitely give it a nice tickle).
 
Hmm. Well one of the first things I think of is enchanting, actually. If swords and armor and such can be enchanted, couldn't guns and canons be too? That'd be pretty deadly against another mage I would think. And I'm sure that the Colonials could bribe someone to teach them the ways of enchanting. I agree that there would eventually be an all out war, but I think it would be a pretty even match, especially if the Colonials learned all of Tamriels' ways on top of what they already know. Beyond that, well, that's something I'll have to give a bit more thought to before I can answer.


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