Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

  • Welcome to Skyrim Forums! Register now to participate using the 'Sign Up' button on the right. You may now register with your Facebook or Steam account!

LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
Weak leaders mean nothing. it is not about how the leader rules, but how resources are utilized. If a strong leader utilizes strengths and resources wrong, then the province is weak, but a weak leader can do the opposite just as much as a strong leader can do the wrong thing.

If you can end a fight before it happens, is that weakness or strength of a different kind?
A weak king won't lead his men/women the same way a strong one would. This should be obvious.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Hmmm. And how *pray tell* are we defining "weakness"? Sometimes as it turns out, weakness can be strength as much as strength can cause weakness.

At any rate, I totally fail to see how plunging the Empire / Province of Skyrim into chaos is going to help the matter any.

The real question, in my mind, and possibly the most important question of all:

Who is going to be the next Emperor?

It matters more than you might think.
 

Rimfaxe96

Well-Known Member
Ulfric wasn't allowed to even touch High King Torygg by Imperial law.


09af900313d7b1f0374ccc9dc40a67d9f4a93c10189cc357b7298c264bb26635.jpg
 

Jurgarik Greycloak

Techno master of Tamriel.
Weak leaders mean nothing. it is not about how the leader rules, but how resources are utilized. If a strong leader utilizes strengths and resources wrong, then the province is weak, but a weak leader can do the opposite just as much as a strong leader can do the wrong thing.

If you can end a fight before it happens, is that weakness or strength of a different kind?
A weak king won't lead his men/women the same way a strong one would. This should be obvious.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Hmmm. And how *pray tell* are we defining "weakness"? Sometimes as it turns out, weakness can be strength as much as strength can cause weakness.

Thing is, Strength is subjective. One person's strength is another's weakness. A powerful fighter could easily a terrible diplomat/political leader, for example. And a "weak" fighter could actually have been a better ruler than the strong guy who killed him. The reason Torygg is a "weak high king" is because the Stormcloaks say he is.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
Hmmm. And how *pray tell* are we defining "weakness"? Sometimes as it turns out, weakness can be strength as much as strength can cause weakness.
Weakness in combat and in asserting oneself to his/her betters is a weakness a King/Queen of Skyrim should not have and is a weakness that makes Skyrim weak as a whole. You'd rather see Elisif on the Throne. Good luck digging yourself out of the Thalmor Dungeons.

At any rate, I totally fail to see how plunging the Empire / Province of Skyrim into chaos is going to help the matter any.
It's a much better solution to a Nord than doing nothing.

The real question, in my mind, and possibly the most important question of all:

Who is going to be the next Emperor?

It matters more than you might think.
Now that is an Important question! Who will lead the Empire in their darkest hour? According to Drunken, it might be Titus Mede's aunt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
Thing is, Strength is subjective. One person's strength is another's weakness. A powerful fighter could easily a terrible diplomat/political leader, for example. And a "weak" fighter could actually have been a better ruler than the strong guy who killed him. The reason Torygg is a "weak high king" is because the Stormcloaks say he is.
Not exactly there are few in Solitude who also say he was a weak High King. Sayma the pawn owner seems to think so, also Weakness in combat and in asserting oneself to his/her betters is a weakness a King/Queen of Skyrim should not have and is a weakness that makes Skyrim weak as a whole.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
Thing is, Strength is subjective. One person's strength is another's weakness. A powerful fighter could easily a terrible diplomat/political leader, for example. And a "weak" fighter could actually have been a better ruler than the strong guy who killed him. The reason Torygg is a "weak high king" is because the Stormcloaks say he is.
Not exactly there are few in Solitude who also say he was a weak High King. Sayma the pawn owner seems to think so, also Weakness in combat and in asserting oneself to his/her betters is a weakness a King/Queen of Skyrim should not have and is a weakness that makes Skyrim weak as a whole. You'd rather see Elisif on the Throne. Good luck digging yourself out of the Thalmor Dungeons for accidentally mentioning Talos
 

Jurgarik Greycloak

Techno master of Tamriel.
Thing is, Strength is subjective. One person's strength is another's weakness. A powerful fighter could easily a terrible diplomat/political leader, for example. And a "weak" fighter could actually have been a better ruler than the strong guy who killed him. The reason Torygg is a "weak high king" is because the Stormcloaks say he is.
Not exactly there are few in Solitude who also say he was a weak High King. Sayma the pawn owner seems to think so, also Weakness in combat and in asserting oneself to his/her betters is a weakness a King/Queen of Skyrim should not have and is a weakness that makes Skyrim weak as a whole. You'd rather see Elisif on the Throne. Good luck digging yourself out of the Thalmor Dungeons for accidentally mentioning Talos


I'd rather Balgruuf on the throne than either. Why? Because my definition of a strong high king is someone who can actually do the job. We have no clue IF Torygg could do the job because ONE Jarl decided that a strong high king is a man who can kill the weaker man using an ancient move that people cannot defend against. And "not asserting" oneself to anything does not mean weakness, but could be part of a cunning plan.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Mikulas Black-Blade: The thing is that when it comes to strengths and weaknesses is that they are subjective and the words mean nothing overall.

A cunning man is overall weaker in brute force, but can easily beat the brute.

Hence why Skyrim doesn't remain united for long, and High Kings reign short. The Nordic obsession with warriors makes good soldiers, but they approach politics as they do battle. With an axe.

Tiber Septim and his heirs were smart enough to take control over the Moot. Their conflicting nature turns to infighting easily.
 

Jurgarik Greycloak

Techno master of Tamriel.
Mikulas Black-Blade: The thing is that when it comes to strengths and weaknesses is that they are subjective and the words mean nothing overall.

A cunning man is overall weaker in brute force, but can easily beat the brute.

Hence why Skyrim doesn't remain united for long, and High Kings reign short. The Nordic obsession with warriors makes good soldiers, but they approach politics as they do battle. With an axe.

Tiber Septim and his heirs were smart enough to take control over the Moot. Their conflicting nature turns to infighting easily.

In the end, the "weakness" of Torygg is because he is dead. Dead=weak in the eyes of some people. This is a pointless thought, as anyone can thus be weak if they die to someone better than them in something.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Thing is, Strength is subjective. One person's strength is another's weakness. A powerful fighter could easily a terrible diplomat/political leader, for example. And a "weak" fighter could actually have been a better ruler than the strong guy who killed him. The reason Torygg is a "weak high king" is because the Stormcloaks say he is.
Not exactly there are few in Solitude who also say he was a weak High King. Sayma the pawn owner seems to think so, also Weakness in combat and in asserting oneself to his/her betters is a weakness a King/Queen of Skyrim should not have and is a weakness that makes Skyrim weak as a whole.

You are both idiots. Strength and weakness is a matter of perception. Torygg is a weak High King because he is a dead High King. This means nothing to how he would have been as high king.
 

Lewsean

Member
Thing is, Strength is subjective. One person's strength is another's weakness. A powerful fighter could easily a terrible diplomat/political leader, for example. And a "weak" fighter could actually have been a better ruler than the strong guy who killed him. The reason Torygg is a "weak high king" is because the Stormcloaks say he is.
Not exactly there are few in Solitude who also say he was a weak High King. Sayma the pawn owner seems to think so, also Weakness in combat and in asserting oneself to his/her betters is a weakness a King/Queen of Skyrim should not have and is a weakness that makes Skyrim weak as a whole.

You are both idiots. Strength and weakness is a matter of perception. Torygg is a weak High King because he is a dead High King. This means nothing to how he would have been as high king.
Skyrim is the home of a warrior race, High King's throughout history have all been strong characters and leaders. This is about what Skyrim views as a strong king, not what YOU do, hence why thousands of Nords support Ulfric because in Skyrim and TES universe, they are right. Good to see you resort to personal insults though, obviously that shows your frustrated and can't think of anything else to say, sad.
 

Lewsean

Member
The Empire is finished. Your court is corrupt, your Emperor is dead and you have no allies because you betray everybody for self preservation. Nords admire strength, Skyrim willingly joined the Empire because Talos was a son of Skyrim and a hero, the Empire thinking everything would be fine by outlawing Talos worship was a severe mistake on their side, seeing as like I said before, Talos was the ONLY reason they joined the Empire in the first place.

Skyrim is alone and isolated, not one single province comes to Ulfric's aid. Skyrim endorsed the Mede Dynasty, made Titus Mede their Emperor. They didn't rejoin in the last two hundred years because of Talos.

Who has come to the Empires aid? Noone, and nobody will because like I've said time and time again, the Empire sold out it's people prior and after the Great War.

If the Empire can barely afford/sustain it's millitary against a 'rebellion' after 30 years of rebuilding then tell me, what in the hell are they going to do against the Thalmor? Nothing.

The Empire is barely dealing with the rebellion, they just sent General Tullius. The Stormcloaks are struggling against not even a fraction of the Empire's might. The Imperial Legions are all in Cyrodiil.

"We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now." - Ulfric Stormcloak

The Stormcloaks are fighting local recruited militia Auxiliaries. They're not even facing the real Military.

Tullius' Legion is part of the 'real' millitary. I don't see what your point is about fighting the whole of Cyrodill being a bad thing? Of course it is, that doesn't make it any less right. You know what does annoy me, is the emphasis on the Stormcloaks and how they should use their brains and stop fighting, yet not once do you mention the fact that the Empire is fighting too.

Skyrim will NOT fall to the Elves under Ulfric

Putting a lot of hope into a man who has been captured three times during his Military campaigns.

I didn't mean it in that way. I meant just because the Empire is out of Skyrim doesn't mean the Elves will flood the border in an instant like most people seem to beleive.

the only reason any Thalmor can even be in Skyrim is because the Empire allowed it.

No. The Thalmor will always be in Skyrim, you can't "push" them out. A read of the TES novels will explain that further, the Thalmor will go underground using assets and other various agents.

Without a legitimate reason to be there, they would have no garrison's, no prisons, nothing.. How do you expect them to run local interference with no base of operations?

Skyrim is THE place to be in a war against the Elves, it's simply too well defended and too far away for them to make any sort of successfull attack.

Except you're not defending.

"When we're done rooting out Imperial influence here at home, then we will take our war to the Aldmeri Dominion." - Ulfric

So Ulfric can't attack, but the Empire can? My statement was about the defensive advantages of Skyrim's landscape, not what Ulfric intends to do...

Skyrim is also still one of the most wealthy nations in Tamriel, according to Wiki.

Skyrim has vast natural wealth in the form of ore. You can't eat ore, which is why the food and other resources from the Empire are important. Leave the Empire and trade is heavily taxed by the EETC.

Trade is already heavily taxed to support the Empire's war effort. You talk bout it like Skyrim is some barren wasteland with no food source whatsoever and the might Empire is the ONLY source for this? You know as well as I do that's 100% false. Besides, the EETC is largely independant and their main trading source is raw materials, not food.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
I'd rather Balgruuf on the throne than either. Why? Because my definition of a strong high king is someone who can actually do the job. We have no clue IF Torygg could do the job because ONE Jarl decided that a strong high king is a man who can kill the weaker man using an ancient move that people cannot defend against. And "not asserting" oneself to anything does not mean weakness, but could be part of a cunning plan.
Pretty sure Torygg dint have a cunning plan in place


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
In the end, the "weakness" of Torygg is because he is dead. Dead=weak in the eyes of some people. This is a pointless thought, as anyone can thus be weak if they die to someone better than them in something.
Ate not why he's weak he's weak because he let The Enoire walk all over hin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
In the end, the "weakness" of Torygg is because he is dead. Dead=weak in the eyes of some people. This is a pointless thought, as anyone can thus be weak if they die to someone better than them in something.
Ate not why he's weak he's weak because he let The Enoire walk all over hin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We do not know anything about what was going on through Torygg's head, so "weak" is not a word I would use. I would use "young" to describe Torygg as high king, but at is about it.

"Strong" and "weak" are subjective. This means that using them is simply an opinion, no matter how many people say it.
 

Rhew

The missing snow elf
I was all about the stormcloaks when I first started to play. But the more I learn about Ulfric the less I like them. I also hate having to turn against Jarl Balgruuf. So I think I'll go imperial from now on. They really are trying what is best for the world. It's the Thalmor that needs to be destroyed.
 

Recent chat visitors

Latest posts

Top