Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

DrunkenMage said:

The heads will be the Thalmor leadership, their ideology will never cease but their power and influence can. Obviously they'll pop up again sometime in the future, but they'll be a minority for sometime.

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Also, if you play ESO, the Thalmor Government is nothing at all like the 4th Era. The equivalent to the Thalmor of the 4th Era in ESO is the Veiled Heritance, which is a group that, surprise, uses espionage and spies to try to overthrow the Altmer Queen because she believes in true allies with other Races and that Altmer are not above their own allies or the others.

The influence changes drastically, so yeah, as DrunkenMage says, cutting off the Thalmor of the 4th Era's head will cripple their power, just like how they have no power in the ESO time period.

DrunkenMage said:

The Dragonborn will not stay. It wasn't a game mechanic, it was dialogue. Game mechanics is like four soldiers attacking a fort, but would really be a lot more.

You can't simply chalk up dialogue or lore as "Nothing but game mechanics"

Both sides release the Dragonborn, the Gods have need of him/her elsewhere.

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It's game mechanics because Bethesda had no intentions of creating an expansion package specifically for the return of the Great war.

You're putting way too much empathizes over the dismissal dialogues from both Ulfric and Tullius. It was merely Bethesda saying "The end" for the Civil war and that you can now do whatever you want because theirs nothing else to be done.

Raijin said:

It's game mechanics because Bethesda had no intentions of creating an expansion package specifically for the return of the Great war.

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Do you have a link from Bethesda confirming this? Show me an instance where dialogue wasn't what it is, but was really just game mechanics.

Raijin said:

You're putting way too much empathizes over the dismissal dialogues from both Ulfric and Tullius. It was merely Bethesda saying "The end" for the Civil war and that you can now do whatever you want because theirs nothing else to be done.

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So this is the Stormcloak argument now? If dialogue contradicts you, it is just game mechanics.

I thought I've seen it all in this thread, but now we're actually at the point of dismissing dialogue as merely game mechanics.

Show me an instance where the hero character pops up again after the main story?

Daggerfall's hero? Never heard from them again. Morrowind's hero? They vanished. Oblivion's hero? Well after the Crisis they weren't ever mentioned anymore.

But Skyrim's hero?

Well obviously they're going to be fighting for the Stormcloaks in the next Great War, become Emperor and rule Tamriel as a raceless and genderless Vampire Lord/Werewolf/Assassin/Harbinger/Vampire Hunter/Arch-Mage/Thief super game breaking powerful Dynasty.

Seems legit.

If the Empire keeps control of Skyrim, The Blades would be an illegal organization and the two remaining members will be put in the hands Aldmeri Dominion's Thalmor agents or simply put to the chopping block by the Empire...

If Ulfric does take victory, the Order of Talos would reform and then the Blades will grow in numbers and fast once the rest of Skyrim learns it was in fact the Blades who helped there Dragonborn. The funny thing is though, they wouldn't align themselves to the Ulfric's Stormcloaks unless the Aldmeri Dominion invaded Skyrim. Because after all that has happen, they are still to the Empire.

How many lives do you think who would flock to join the Order of Talos?

DrunkenMage said:

Do you have a link from Bethesda confirming this? Show me an instance where dialogue wasn't what it is, but was really just game mechanics.

So this is the Stormcloak argument now? If dialogue contradicts you, it is just game mechanics.

I thought I've seen it all in this thread, but now we're actually at the point of dismissing dialogue as merely game mechanics.

Show me an instance where the hero character pops up again after the main story?

Daggerfall's hero? Never heard from them again. Morrowind's hero? They vanished. Oblivion's hero? Well after the Crisis they weren't ever mentioned anymore.

But Skyrim's hero?

Well obviously they're going to be fighting for the Stormcloaks in the next Great War, become Emperor and rule Tamriel as a raceless and genderless Vampire Lord/Werewolf/Assassin/Harbinger/Vampire Hunter/Arch-Mage/Thief super game breaking powerful Dynasty.

Seems legit.

Click to expand...

I don't need to submit a link from a Bethesda to verify what I said. It's rather simple at best that once the civil war is over with that theirs nothing much that you can do regarding to the position that you're in as a Stormblade/Legate because the developers did not write this into the game. You're putting too much into it when you really shouldn't. I don't know how it's contradicting me when I clearly see the obvious.

As far as the hero's from the first Elders scrolls game up to the current: Skyrim not being mention.. I don't know how to explain this other than to tell you that each game has a different set of stories. Some connect while others don't. This isn't Dragon Age after all.

Caideus said:

If the Empire keeps control of Skyrim, The Blades would be an illegal organization and the two remaining members will be put in the hands Aldmeri Dominion's Thalmor agents or simply put to the chopping block by the Empire...

If Ulfric does take victory, the Order of Talos would reform and then the Blades will grow in numbers and fast once the rest of Skyrim learns it was in fact the Blades who helped there Dragonborn. The funny thing is though, they wouldn't align themselves to the Ulfric's Stormcloaks unless the Aldmeri Dominion invaded Skyrim. Because after all that has happen, they are still to the Empire.

How many lives do you think who would flock to join the Order of Talos?

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The Blades wouldn't align themselves with Ulfrics Stormcloak army, but they would be willing (as a temporary allies) to work with each other to deal with the Thalmor situation, which the two have common interests.

You would have 2 armies.

Raijin said:

The Blades wouldn't align themselves with Ulfrics Stormcloak army, but they would be willing (as a temporary allies) to work with each other to deal with the Thalmor situation, which the two have common interests.

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Highly doubtful when she doesn't budge when the Dragonborn is commanded to kill Parth. Either you do it, or she doesn't help you. If she doesn't make an exception for the one she claims to serve, why would she help the Stormcloaks when she clearly has contempt for Ulfric and is loyal to the Empire?

Caideus said:

If the Empire keeps control of Skyrim, The Blades would be an illegal organization and the two remaining members will be put in the hands Aldmeri Dominion's Thalmor agents or simply put to the chopping block by the Empire...

Click to expand...

Not gonna happen. They're in hiding and operating from the shadows. The Empire isn't aware of them, doesn't even pursue them, and those who did survive the Great War know pretty damn well that they must remain in hiding until either the Thalmor are gone someday or the sun drops out of the sky.

The Blades have no part in the Civil War. Their focus were the dragons, which were taken care of. Next, I believe they'll try to fight the Thalmor as best they can once they're a bit more stable again. Or perhaps Bethesda lets us read about their total destruction in a book in TES6.

Ivory said:

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Im sorry, heh, did you just say there would be Nord Thalmor Agents. Well despite the fact that that goes against everything the Thalmor Stands for I doubt any Nord would want to stay anywhere within the Thalmor

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I'm sorry but I've given you this evidence before. Let me remind you of him.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Gissur

And Don't say "He's a begger" or "He's not a real nord"

He's a Nord. By blood and by heritage. And a Thalmor Informant. By Choice and Greed.

Click to expand...

but thats one he said "plenty"

Vatonage said:

DrunkenMage said:

The Dragonborn will not stay. It wasn't a game mechanic, it was dialogue. Game mechanics is like four soldiers attacking a fort, but would really be a lot more.

You can't simply chalk up dialogue or lore as "Nothing but game mechanics"

Both sides release the Dragonborn, the Gods have need of him/her elsewhere.



Really? Yet throughout Skyrim's history, Tongues have been killed easily and have been defeated in the past. More powerful Thu'um users than Ulfric.

I just destroyed your argument there, Ulfric won't use the Thu'um lightly. If he used it taking Markarth, he would have used it at some point during the Great War. It was what made him leave the Greybeards in the first place.



The Last Dragonborn isn't a good example, since he/she is is on a driven path set by Akatosh. They also vanish after the events in Skyrim.

Ulfric was captured by the Thalmor in the past, he was captured by General Tullius in an ambush. If Ulfric can 'pwn' anything in his path, entire lines of soldiers. Why has he been captured twice during war?

The Thalmor aren't going to send an army, they'll disrupt Skyrim in other ways.



I'm not talking about Justiciar Agents. We're on about espionage, the undercover agents and various assets who conduct the illegal activities. The evidence is in what we know and see about the Thalmor, hence why they used a Khajiit to try and assassinate you.

How isn't it illegal? When the Thalmor resort to using their own execution squads they have Notes saying if caught by the local authorities they're unable to be helped. Imperial soldiers will even attack them if spotted.



They're doing such an amazing job, that they're so clueless and ignorant about the threat they face.

What job are the Stormcloaks doing? I haven't seen anything from them that they're preparing to deal with the Thalmor espionage.



Yeah that will never happen. Besides, wouldn't the Thalmor merely just enter Skyrim via Cyrodiil, High Rock and Hammerfell?

Get it into your head. The Thalmor aren't just Altmer, their agents and assets are of all races.



The Justiciars yeah, because they want to make people rise up against the Empire. So the Thalmor are pretty open about spreading doctrines, and making the Empire look as bad as possible every chance they get.



This is lore out of game. Thalmor have been infiltrating the Empire for a hundred and fifty years, you really think they'd skip Skyrim? They'd have their nests and sympathizers around there.



Yeah totally, the Empire should be all open about their secret operations, expose all the secrets of the Imperium, full on show and tell naming their contacts and hidden agents.

Maybe some high speed cart chases 007 style.

Because in the world of spies and espionage, being open about it makes it so much harder to be caught!



Actually it was those rich, snotty, supporters in Whiterun who were actually looking for him due to being concerned. Hence the letter from Tullius because they inquired about his location.

He wasn't kidnapped illegally, he was a Talos worshiper and off to join the Stormcloaks. Besides Tullius can have him released, except there is a bug that doesn't it to work unless on PC version.



Yeah, because that is the Thalmor objective. Indirectly aiding the Stormcloaks, sending Ulfric recruits is part of that aid.

You're being herded and acting like it was your own choice.



Good luck on that... You really have no idea what threat the Thalmor represent.



Who says they'd be in a cave? Is the world of espionage a new concept to you?

They're not going to have a single location. You're looking at things like dead drops, contacts, handlers, two people talking in a bar etc.



They won't be there. Their HQ in Solitude is empty, unused, and their embassy can be left behind.

There won't be a base.




We're not talking about Justiciars. Agents can be anyone, assets too. You will always get Thalmor sympathizers, same thing was with the Nazi's in WW2. People sided with them and sold out their own neighbors etc.

Not every Nord is like Rikke or Ulfric. Not every Nord values honor or loyalty. You're generalizing a race, which is stupid.




There isn't going to be an army, understand that, accept that. Learn how espionage works before replying again.



Telling you what? That the Thalmor have been infiltrating the Empire for a very long time?

Here is a quote relating to Cyrodiil.

There are Thalmor nests and sympathizers throughout Cyrodiil, and the Penitus Oculatus keeps undercover agents in at least one of them. p.152

Skyrim would have their own nests and we have already seen some sympathizers in-game. Thalmor are everywhere.



The heads will be the Thalmor leadership, their ideology will never cease but their power and influence can. Obviously they'll pop up again sometime in the future, but they'll be a minority for sometime.

Click to expand...

.....

You've convinced me. I switch flags.

I mainly just agreed with the Stormcloaks because Skyrim was my first Elder Scrolls game and Ulfric is just cooler than Tullius, but the Empire is admittedly a better solution than a possibility of weakness from Stormcloak rule, allowing the Aldmeri Dominion to possibly take control of Skyrim.

If only the Stormcloaks had more resources.

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Brother! Nooooo!

Raijin said:

I don't need to submit a link from a Bethesda to verify what I said. It's rather simple at best that once the civil war is over with that theirs nothing much that you can do regarding to the position that you're in as a Stormblade/Legate because the developers did not write this into the game. You're putting too much into it when you really shouldn't. I don't know how it's contradicting me when I clearly see the obvious.

As far as the hero's from the first Elders scrolls game up to the current: Skyrim not being mention.. I don't know how to explain this other than to tell you that each game has a different set of stories. Some connect while others don't. This isn't Dragon Age after all.

Click to expand...

The Last Dragonborn won't have any part, it is simple because how can the player fight the Aldmeri Dominion for the Stormcloaks or Imperials when they've destroyed the Stormcloaks or pushed out the Empire? Both can't be right.

It is contradicting you because they release you, they actually say it. But you dismiss anything if it doesn't help your argument.

If your argument requires that you need the Dragonborn to defeat the Thalmor, then you've lost, because us Imperials can just say "We have the Dragonborn."

You're right that it isn't Dragon Age, in the Elder Scrolls the Hero vanishes after each game. If you haven't figured that out after five games, then you never will.

Rimfaxe96 said:

Not gonna happen. They're in hiding and operating from the shadows. The Empire isn't aware of them, doesn't even pursue them, and those who did survive the Great War know pretty damn well that they must remain in hiding until either the Thalmor are gone someday or the sun drops out of the sky.

The Blades have no part in the Civil War. Their focus were the dragons, which were taken care of. Next, I believe they'll try to fight the Thalmor as best they can once they're a bit more stable again. Or perhaps Bethesda lets us read about their total destruction in a book in TES6.

Click to expand...

Not only that, but the Blades aren't on the run from the Empire. The Empire can't acknowledge them, that they still exist while the Treaty is in place.

"Esbern, if the Empire could even acknowledge the Blades existence, we'd all have reason to celebrate." - Delphine

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Ivory said:

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Im sorry, heh, did you just say there would be Nord Thalmor Agents. Well despite the fact that that goes against everything the Thalmor Stands for I doubt any Nord would want to stay anywhere within the Thalmor

Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I've given you this evidence before. Let me remind you of him.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Gissur

And Don't say "He's a begger" or "He's not a real nord"

He's a Nord. By blood and by heritage. And a Thalmor Informant. By Choice and Greed.

Click to expand...

but thats one he said "plenty"

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There is never only one. That is just one we see and know about, there would be others of all races. Not every Nord cares about honor and loyalty.

DrunkenMage said:

Really? Yet throughout Skyrim's history, Tongues have been killed easily and have been defeated in the past. More powerful Thu'um users than Ulfric.

Click to expand...

By Dwemer Automatons which the Dominion neither have, nor will ever use.

DrunkenMage said:

I just destroyed your argument there,

Click to expand...

No.. no not really. Kind of just fueled it actually.

DrunkenMage said:

Ulfric won't use the Thu'um lightly. If he used it taking Markarth, he would have used it at some point during the Great War. It was what made him leave the Greybeards in the first place.

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He was still young and he still respected the Graybeards greatly. There is no piece of evidence saying if he used it or if he didn't. Although he probably wouldn't have been captured if he did. He left to fight not because of the Graybeard Philosophy. He left because the fires of war burned in his heart. Its criminal to deny a Nord his right to war.

DrunkenMage said:

The Last Dragonborn isn't a good example, since he/she is is on a driven path set by Akatosh. They also vanish after the events in Skyrim.

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Good point I will no longer use him/her in this argument

DrunkenMage said:

Ulfric was captured by the Thalmor in the past, he was captured by General Tullius in an ambush. If Ulfric can 'pwn' anything in his path, entire lines of soldiers. Why has he been captured twice during war?

Click to expand...

Because in one point he consented to his capture and to the other he didn't use the thu'um. Please dont say "pwn" in a sarcastic manner as if I would say that.

DrunkenMage said:

The Thalmor aren't going to send an army, they'll disrupt Skyrim in other ways.

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And they'll also send an army. They're perfectly capable why wouldn't they? they can have two campaigns. One fighting directly to capture the Snow Kingdom if possible, the other to disrupt supply lines and make assassinations

DrunkenMage said:

Imperial soldiers will even attack them if spotted.

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And so will Stormcloaks. Only difference there is one can be considered violating the terms of The White Gold Concordant and one won't.

DrunkenMage said:

Get it into your head. The Thalmor aren't just Altmer, their agents and assets are of all races.

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Thats why I said : "refuse foreigner entry of any kind from Elsweyr, Valenwood, or Summerset."
I acknowledge there will be members of other races but this will keep them separated from their informants on the inside.

DrunkenMage said:

The Justiciars yeah, because they want to make people rise up against the Empire. So the Thalmor are pretty open about spreading doctrines, and making the Empire look as bad as possible every chance they get.

Click to expand...

To give indirect aid to the Stormcloaks Yada Yada heard it all before.

DrunkenMage said:

This is lore out of game. Thalmor have been infiltrating the Empire for a hundred and fifty years, you really think they'd skip Skyrim? They'd have their nests and sympathizers around there.

Click to expand...

Any thalmor in Skyrim re there and will remain there secretly because of the Empire.

DrunkenMage said:

Yeah totally, the Empire should be all open about their secret operations, expose all the secrets of the Imperium, full on show and tell naming their contacts and hidden agents.

Click to expand...

Not like that. Just give your soldiers something. I understand they need to work in secret but maybe they can keep their soldiers uplifted by saying they're fighting them just indirectly.

DrunkenMage said:

Maybe some high speed cart chases 007 style.

Click to expand...

That WOULD be interesting.

DrunkenMage said:

Because in the world of spies and espionage, being open about it makes it so much harder to be caught!

Click to expand...

I'm just saying its bad for morale. No need to be touchy Mr. Mage

DrunkenMage said:

Actually it was those rich, snotty, supporters in Whiterun who were actually looking for him due to being concerned.

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Are you... Serious? Are you... Concerned? Do you know anything about the feud between The Gray Manes and the Battle Borns. Do you really think they care? At all! Im using your joke here because you are so much better than that. You've provided a logical argument thus far keeping me on my toes and then you say.... this. Its... I don't... Really?

DrunkenMage said:

Hence the letter from Tullius because they inquired about his location.

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Yeah to taunt the Gray Manes with it not because they were "concerned" do you think they give a plopse about some Talos Worshipping traitor?
Olfrid: Foolish old woman! You know nothing! Nothing of our struggles, our suffering!
Fralia: Nothing? And what of my son? Hmm? What of Thorald? Is he nothing? So don't talk to me about suffering!
Idolaf: Your son chose his side, and he chose poorly. And now he's gone. Such is the way of war. The sooner you accept his loss, the better.
Fralia: I will never accept his death! My son still lives. I feel it in my heart. So tell me, Battle-Borns, where is he? Where are you holding my Thorald?
Olfrid: Do you believe this old hag? "Holding him"? Why I've got him in my cellar. He's my prisoner. Face it, cow! Your stupid son is dead! He died a Stormcloak traitor. And you... you best keep your mouth shut before you suffer the same.
Idolaf: Come on, father. There's nothing more to be said here.
Yep. That definitely sounds like a family concerned about his absence

DrunkenMage said:

He wasn't kidnapped illegally,

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Pretty sure he was other wise there wouldn't be much of a fuss about it would there.

DrunkenMage said:

he was a Talos worshiper and off to join the Stormcloaks. Besides Tullius can have him released, except there is a bug that doesn't it to work unless on PC version.

Click to expand...

okay. Hold on. lets break this down
1.) We have no proof he was already enlisted in the Rebellion therefore hes not a Stormcloak just an innocent Nord. as a matter of fact he says he's going to fall in to their ranks at the end of the quest.
2.) Really!? a BUG! That's low. that is low. Not only is there zero proof of that Anywhere bu tit just doesn't make sense as that is not how quests work in Skyrim. I play on PC and this still isn't an option. Now I see your just the stereotypical Imperial Politician.
3.) We know and Tulius knows hes being tortured yet does Nothing. You Imperials are held by the balls. We're indirectly aided sure, thats true but your barely allowed to do your own thing without the Dominion struting along making sure the Concordant is in order.

DrunkenMage said:

Yeah, because that is the Thalmor objective. Indirectly aiding the Stormcloaks, sending Ulfric recruits is part of that aid.

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To aid the underdogs so the war continues. yes I acknowledge this because its true

You're being herded and acting like it was your own choice.[/quote]
Herded? You're the ones being forced to do anything the Thalmor asks. attending parties forcefully, liking what they put up with, forcefully. Your dragged around like dogs! stand up for yourself Talos alive if the Penitus Oculattus were that effective at cold war-esque jobs and espionage, like you claim, maybe they can do some assassinations. Destroy Supply Lines. Intercept Information. Strike fear into the enemy. Y'know, Do Something other than stand around in Dragon Bridge with their dicks in their hands.

DrunkenMage said:

Good luck on that... You really have no idea what threat the Thalmor represent.

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I know thee threat of the Aldmeri Dominion of the Thalmor there is no real threat the Stormcloaks can't handle.

DrunkenMage said:

Who says they'd be in a cave?

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You did say "anywhere" not to mention it would be the most secluded place.

DrunkenMage said:

Is the world of espionage a new concept to you?

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As you can see, clearly Not my strong suit. Of course thats what I have you for


They won't be there. Their HQ in Solitude is empty, unused, and their embassy can be left behind.

DrunkenMage said:

There won't be a base.

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They'll need some kind of base of command to launch from.

DrunkenMage said:

We're not talking about Justiciars. Agents can be anyone, assets too. You will always get Thalmor sympathizers, same thing was with the Nazi's in WW2. People sided with them and sold out their own neighbors etc.

Not every Nord is like Rikke or Ulfric. Not every Nord values honor or loyalty. You're generalizing a race, which is stupid.

Click to expand...

Im generalizing my race. You said there would be plenty. There will probably be about 5 or 6 and most of those won't even be remotely close to Ulfric or his base of command.

DrunkenMage said:

There isn't going to be an army,

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Says who? You? You know about as much as I do about where and how the Dominion will strike

DrunkenMage said:

understand that, accept that. Learn how espionage works before replying again.

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I know how espionage works and Ill leave it to the Imperials. There obviously will be a standing army as well as some espionage happening. You think they'll leave it up to Agents and Assets to capture an entire country full of stubborn, relentless, intolerant Warriors who have a deep seeded hatred for Elves more than anything. You think they'd just let them do this? Maybe a coup worked in Valenwood with the empathetic and humble Bosmer. But with NORDS?! You're sorely mistaken.

DrunkenMage said:

Telling you what? That the Thalmor have been infiltrating the Empire for a very long time?

Click to expand...

Infiltrating Skyrim for a very long time. That's the Empire this is an independent Skyrim. Things will be different.

DrunkenMage said:

Here is a quote relating to Cyrodiil.

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Give me one about Skyrim and you can win.

DrunkenMage said:

There are Thalmor nests and sympathizers throughout Cyrodiil, and the Penitus Oculatus keeps undercover agents in at least one of them. p.152

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Key Word here is: Cyrodiil- also known as the Imperial Province, is a province in the south-central region of Tamriel, and the home of a humanoid race known as Imperials. The center of their Empire and seat of governance, Cyrodiil is also known as "the Heartland"

DrunkenMage said:

Skyrim would have their own nests and we have already seen some sympathizers in-game.

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Would they? they'd have their small little hiding spots maybe but not organized nests they can launch operations from.

DrunkenMage said:

Thalmor are everwhere.

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They aren't in Morrowind, Hammerfell, or Argonia.[/quote]

Ivory said:

Highly doubtful when she doesn't budge when the Dragonborn is commanded to kill Parth. Either you do it, or she doesn't help you. If she doesn't make an exception for the one she claims to serve, why would she help the Stormcloaks when she clearly has contempt for Ulfric and is loyal to the Empire?

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Ulfric isn't the Dragonborn and Delphine isn't forcing him to kill Paarthurnax, nor threatening him. Delphine maybe a bitch but I don't think shes a fool. Both Ulfric and Delphine have something in common, and that is that they both hate the Thalmor with a passion. Why would the last 2 remaining of the blades have an ounce of loyalty to the Empire when it is the Empire who disowned them, and toss them away to the Aldmeri Dominion to be slaughtered like flies?

The Blades v 2.0 is in the making. The blades that we read in the lore seems to be getting a makeover base on Delphines action... or maybe Delphine is just another Astrid... a fake and phony leader who either forgot or refuses to acknowledge what the blades truly are... servants of the Dragonborn, and Esbern is just too old and senile to do something about the actions Delphine is taking. He is after all losing his hearing. It is only matter of time before he loses his mind from dementia.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

He was still young and he still respected the Graybeards greatly. There is no piece of evidence saying if he used it or if he didn't. Although he probably wouldn't have been captured if he did. He left to fight not because of the Graybeard Philosophy. He left because the fires of war burned in his heart. Its criminal to deny a Nord his right to war.

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He did use it during the Markarth Incident. It's highly believed to be so that he used the Thu'um to drive out the Forsworn

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Not like that. Just give your soldiers something. I understand they need to work in secret but maybe they can keep their soldiers uplifted by saying they're fighting them just indirectly.

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Right. Then the Spies in the military can tell the Thalmor, and they can counter attack. You seriously have no idea how war works at all.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Yeah to taunt the Gray Manes with it not because they were "concerned" do you think they give a pl***e about some Talos Worshipping traitor?
Olfrid: Foolish old woman! You know nothing! Nothing of our struggles, our suffering!
Fralia: Nothing? And what of my son? Hmm? What of Thorald? Is he nothing? So don't talk to me about suffering!
Idolaf: Your son chose his side, and he chose poorly. And now he's gone. Such is the way of war. The sooner you accept his loss, the better.
Fralia: I will never accept his death! My son still lives. I feel it in my heart. So tell me, Battle-Borns, where is he? Where are you holding my Thorald?
Olfrid: Do you believe this old hag? "Holding him"? Why I've got him in my cellar. He's my prisoner. Face it, cow! Your stupid son is dead! He died a Stormcloak traitor. And you... you best keep your mouth shut before you suffer the same.
Idolaf: Come on, father. There's nothing more to be said here.
Yep. That definitely sounds like a family concerned about his absence

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• Speech method: The quickest way is to pass a high level (75) persuasion check in dialogue with Idolaf Battle-Born. He'll tell you that the Gray-Manes are better off believing Thorald to be dead than knowing the truth. He looked into the situation since Thorald was once his friend, and found out that the Thalmor have him at Northwatch Keep... a place people don't ever come back from. The Legion told him to mind his own business after that, and he'll give you a copy of the missive as proof of his story.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

2.) Really!? a BUG! That's low. that is low. Not only is there zero proof of that Anywhere bu tit just doesn't make sense as that is not how quests work in Skyrim. I play on PC and this still isn't an option. Now I see your just the stereotypical Imperial Politician.

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• If the Imperial Legion questline is complete, you can convince General Tullius to release Thorald. However, due to there being no release order to give to the Thalmor, this is not a viable way to finish the quest. The Imperial Orderrequired to free Thorald is not available, but does exist in the game data.
  • 
    This bug is fixed by version 1.2 of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. To obtain the order you must side with the Imperial Legion in the Civil War questline and then speak to General Tullius.

See, this is why we mock and belittle you. Your jimmies get so rustled you spout things you know nothing about.

Everything I've just mentioned is here. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Missing_In_Action

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

DrunkenMage said:

Thalmor are everwhere.

Click to expand...

They aren't in Morrowind, Hammerfell, or Argonia.

Click to expand...

In Morrowind

Abandoned Lodge

The abducted blacksmith

While Deor's directions could lead you more-or-less anywhere on Solstheim, your compass objective marker will point you directly to an Abandoned Lodge south of theTemple of Miraak. The lodge is normally empty, but once you arrive, you'll be attacked by four hostile members of the Thalmor. Dispose of them and loot their bodies for thekey to the lodge. Inside, look around until you are met with the surprising sight of Mikael's book, A Gentleman's Guide to Whiterun. Head into the basement where you will find the scared, tied-up smith in a corner, weeping: "Help! Somebody! Please, someone, help me!" and "I have been taken against my will! I am in need of rescue!"
When you talk to Baldor, he will remember you as the hero who rescued the people of Skaal Village. Despite his wounds, he'll claim he's not hurt. When you ask why the Thalmor abducted him, he'll reply: "I do not know this word Thalmor, but if you mean the elves, they were trying to learn the secrets of forging Stalhrim. Their leader, an elf named Ancarion, has a map. He says that it shows the location of a hidden source of Stalhrim." He will then explain what stalhrim is: "Enchanted ice as hard as iron and cold as death. Stalhrim can be forged into deadly weapons, but the art is known only to smiths of the Skaal." He will then point you towards a Thalmor ship at the northwestern coast where Ancarion resides. He asks you to retrieve the map as it belongs to the Skaal people. Leave the wounded smith behind and head towards the northwestern shores of Solstheim.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

By Dwemer Automatons which the Dominion neither have, nor will ever use.

Click to expand...

No, one was killed by an arrow to the throat. The Dominion have plenty of archers, actually they have the best archers in Tamriel.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

No.. no not really. Kind of just fueled it actually.

Click to expand...

Yes, really.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

He was still young and he still respected the Graybeards greatly. There is no piece of evidence saying if he used it or if he didn't. Although he probably wouldn't have been captured if he did. He left to fight not because of the Graybeard Philosophy. He left because the fires of war burned in his heart. Its criminal to deny a Nord his right to war.

Click to expand...

Why wouldn't he have been captured? Tongues aren't invincable, and they can't shout constantly.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Because in one point he consented to his capture and to the other he didn't use the thu'um. Please dont say "pwn" in a sarcastic manner as if I would say that.

Click to expand...

Or he is just a crap military commander.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

And they'll also send an army. They're perfectly capable why wouldn't they? One fighting directly to capture the Snow Kingdom if possible the other to disrupt supply lines and make assassinations

Click to expand...

They can't send an army. Skyrim can't be invaded by the Aldmeri and Skyrim can't invade the Aldmeri unless passing through Cyrodiil. So if the Thalmor had an army in Skyrim, the Empire would be destroyed.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

And so will Stormcloaks. Only difference there is one can be considered violating the terms of The White Gold Concordant and one won't.

Click to expand...

No. the Thalmor are violating the terms if they send execution teams. They're not allowed to just attack people randomly.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Thats why I said : "refuse foreigner entry of any kind from Elsweyr, Valenwood, or Summerset."
I acknowledge there will be members of other races but this will keep them separated from their informants on the inside.

Click to expand...

Which Skyrim won't do.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

To giive indirect aid to the Stormcloaks Yada Yada heard it all before.

Click to expand...

Good, means you're paying attention.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Any thalmor in Skyrim re there and will remain there secretly because of the Empire.

Click to expand...

Yeah, because of the Empire. The Empire is the one thing the Thalmor are most against, hate everything it stands for. They'll turn greater attention towards Skyrim after the Civil War.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Not like that. Just give your soldiers something. I understand they need to work in secret but maybe they can keep their soldiers uplifted by saying they're fighting them just indirectly.

Click to expand...

Because the Legates don't make little indirect remarks... The soldiers know they're against the Thalmor. Pay attention to what they're on about. Hadvar, Rikke, Tullius, Fasendil and other Legates. They're all mentioning things that are telling you the Thalmor are the real enemy, that war between them is coming again.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Are you... Serious? Are you... Concerned? Do you know anything about the feud between The Gray Manes and the Battle Borns. Do you really think they care? At all! Im using your joke here because you are so much better than that. You've provided a logical argument thus far keeping me on my toes and then you say.... this. Its... I don't... Really?

Yeah to taunt the Gray Manes with it not because they were "concerned" do you think they give a pl***e about some Talos Worshipping traitor?
Olfrid: Foolish old woman! You know nothing! Nothing of our struggles, our suffering!
Fralia: Nothing? And what of my son? Hmm? What of Thorald? Is he nothing? So don't talk to me about suffering!
Idolaf: Your son chose his side, and he chose poorly. And now he's gone. Such is the way of war. The sooner you accept his loss, the better.
Fralia: I will never accept his death! My son still lives. I feel it in my heart. So tell me, Battle-Borns, where is he? Where are you holding my Thorald?
Olfrid: Do you believe this old hag? "Holding him"? Why I've got him in my cellar. He's my prisoner. Face it, cow! Your stupid son is dead! He died a Stormcloak traitor. And you... you best keep your mouth shut before you suffer the same.
Idolaf: Come on, father. There's nothing more to be said here.
That definitely sounds like a family concerned about his absence

Click to expand...

Trying to emulate me only works when you know what you're on about. Otherwise you come across as a bigger idiot than before.

They said he died in battle, because that is the best a Nord can hope for.

"Between the two of us, his family is better off thinking he's dead. Thorald and I have history, all right? We used to be friends. So I looked into it when he disappeared. I found out the Thalmor have him. And they don't let anyone go. So I've kept my mouth shut. Like I said, his family is better off believing he's gone, because he's never coming back." - Idolaf Battle-Born

"I used some contacts in the Legion, asked some questions. Was told I should mind my own business." - Idolaf Battle-Born

Oh snap, Mage wins again.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Pretty sure he was other wise there wouldn't be much of a fuss about it would there.

Click to expand...

The fuss was because the Battle-Born's inquired about it.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

okay. Hold on. lets break this down
1.) We have no proof he was already enlisted in the Rebellion therefore hes not a Stormcloak just an innocent Nord. as a matter of fact he says he's going to fall in to their ranks at the end of the quest.
2.) Really!? a BUG! That's low. that is low. Not only is there zero proof of that Anywhere bu tit just doesn't make sense as that is not how quests work in Skyrim.
3.) We know and Tulius knows hes being tortured yet does Nothing. You Imperials are held by the balls. We're indirectly aided sure, thats true but your barely allowed to do your own thing without the Dominion struting along making sure the Concordant is in order.

To aid the underdogs so the war continues. yes I acknowledge this because its true

Click to expand...

He was going to join the Stormcloaks and he worshiped Talos, treason and violation of the Concordat.

Secondly, I'm getting real tired of correcting you. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Missing_In_Action#Bugs

Do you read about things before posting, or just hope at least 1% of the endless bullplops is correct?

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Herded? You're the ones being forced to do anything the Thalmor asks. attending parties forcefully, liking what they put up with, forcefully. Your dragged around like dogs! stand up for yourself Talos alive if the Penitus Oculattus were that effective at cold war-esque jobs and espionage, like you claim, maybe they can do some assassinations. Destroy Supply Lines. Intercept Information. Strike fear into the enemy. Y'know, Do Something other than stand around in Dragon Bridge with their dicks in their hands.

Click to expand...

Tullius attends a party because he doesn't want to cause diplomatic issues. He's a Military General, he follows his orders. Until his orders say kill the Thalmor, he does his job.

The Penitus Oculatus at Dragon Bridge aren't involved in espionage, they are open and wear the armor. They're bodyguards for the Emperor, not the undercover Inspectors. Genius.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

I know thee threat of the Aldmeri Dominion of the Thalmor there is no real threat the Stormcloaks can't handle.

Click to expand...

Lol. No real threat from the Thalmor the Stormcloaks can't handle? That is the funniest plops ever posted.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

You did say "anywhere" not to mention it would be the most secluded place.

Click to expand...

Cities are best. Crowded and people often mind their own business.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

They'll need some kind of base of command to launch from.

Click to expand...

No they don't. Most probably wouldn't even be aware of each other.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Im generalizing my race. You said there would be plenty. There will probably be about 5 or 6 and most of those won't even be remotely close to Ulfric or his base of command.

Click to expand...

Five or six in an entire country?

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Says who? You? You know about as much as I do about where and how the Dominion will strike

Click to expand...

Go look at a map of Tamriel. They can't strike anywhere, Skyrim can't be invaded by sea. Also with nearly the entire Imperial army on the Dominion's doorstep, you really think they'd weaken themselves by attacking another area?

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

I know how espionage works and Ill leave it to the Imperials. There obviously will be a standing army as well as some espionage happening. You think they'll leave it up to Agents and Assets to capture an entire country full of stubborn, relentless, intolerant Warriors who have a deep seeded hatred for Elves more than anything. You think they'd just let them do this? Maybe a coup worked in Valenwood with the empathetic and humble Bosmer. But with NORDS?! You're sorely mistaken.

Click to expand...

They don't plan to capture Skyrim. Weaken and disrupt yes, those stubborn Nords have a conflicting nature and anytime a King unites the province, it always falls apart later on. Thalmor can fund bandits, keep raiding farms, attacking supplies. Keep the Stormcloaks busy. Maybe convince a Jarl they'd be better High King.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Infiltrating Skyrim for a very long time. That's the Empire this is an independent Skyrim. Things will be different.

Click to expand...

Yeah, Thalmor will have a field day.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Key Word here is: Cyrodiil- also known as the Imperial Province, is a province in the south-central region of Tamriel, and the home of a humanoid race known as Imperials. The center of their Empire and seat of governance, Cyrodiil is also known as "the Heartland"

Click to expand...

You're right, what was I thinking. Thalmor infiltrating the Empire, of course they'd ignore the second most important province of the Empire.

Forgive me for giving Skyrim some priority, obviously if the Thalmor were ignoring Skyrim, it was never considered a threat.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Would they? they'd have their small little hiding spots maybe but not organized nests they can launch operations from.

Click to expand...

Well they've been in Skyrim openly for nearly thirty years and they were infiltrating the Empire for over a hundred years. So at least a hundred and thirty years of presence. Obviously they'd have nothing except tiny hiding spots, I mean how can they get organized after only that short amount of time?

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

They aren't in Morrowind, Hammerfell, or Argonia.

Click to expand...

Well technically they were in Morrowind, there was a boat of them on that island that belongs to Morrowind. The Thalmor would have a presence in areas, same as the Empire did and the Blades too.

You think the Thalmor wouldn't keep eyes and ears in Black Marsh or Hammerfell? That is a big assumption, since both those provinces are next to theirs. Be stupid not to have anything there and the Thalmor aren't stupid.

Raijin said:

The Blades v 2.0 is in the making. The blades that we read in the lore seems to be getting a makeover base on Delphines action... or maybe Delphine is just another Astrid... a fake and phony leader who either forgot or refuses to acknowledge what the blades truly are... servants of the Dragonborn, and Esbern is just too old and senile to do something about the actions Delphine is taking. He is after all losing his hearing. It is only matter of time before he loses his mind from dementia.

Click to expand...

Personally I just disagree with you there, not really much to argue over there I don't even consider the 2.0 Blades to be the true blades at all. I'd have to go with Delphine is just another Astrid really. Or, the Greybeards are right and the Blades have never truly served the Dragonborn and only care about slaying Dragons.

Ivory said:

He did use it during the Markarth Incident. It's highly believed to be so that he used the Thu'um to drive out the Forsworn

Click to expand...

I know Im saying he didn't use it in the Great War.

Ivory said:

Right. Then the Spies in the military can tell the Thalmor, and they can counter attack. You seriously have no idea how war works at all.

Click to expand...

Well the Imperials clearly aren't doing a very good at their little espionage escapade if theyre allowing spies in their camps.

• Ivory said:

  Speech method

  Click to expand...

  Ivory said:

  : The quickest way is to pass a high level (75) persuasion check in dialogue with Idolaf Battle-Born. He'll tell you that the Gray-Manes are better off believing Thorald to be dead than knowing the truth. He looked into the situation since Thorald was once his friend, and found out that the Thalmor have him at Northwatch Keep... a place people don't ever come back from. The Legion told him to mind his own business after that, and he'll give you a copy of the missive as proof of his story.

  Click to expand...

And yet he still said this: Your stupid son is dead! He died a Stormcloak traitor".

• Ivory said:

  If the Imperial Legion questline is complete, you can convince General Tullius to release Thorald. However, due to there being no release order to give to the Thalmor, this is not a viable way to finish the quest. The Imperial Orderrequired to free Thorald is not available, but does exist in the game data.
  

  • 
    This bug is fixed by version 1.2 of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. To obtain the order you must side with the Imperial Legion in the Civil War questline and then speak to General Tullius.

  Click to expand...

  • hmmph no wonder I never noticed I never side with you guys.

Ivory said:

See, this is why we mock and belittle you. Your jimmies get so rustled you spout things you know nothing about.

Click to expand...

Because mocking and belittling people is a great way to get your point across.

Ivory said:

Everything I've just mentioned is here. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Missing_In_Action

Click to expand...

I shouldn't have to persuade your benevolent Military Governor to let someone who is wrongfully being kept prisoner free.

Ivory said:

In Morrowind

Abandoned Lodge

​

​

The abducted blacksmith

While Deor's directions could lead you more-or-less anywhere on Solstheim, your compass objective marker will point you directly to an Abandoned Lodge south of theTemple of Miraak. The lodge is normally empty, but once you arrive, you'll be attacked by four hostile members of the Thalmor. Dispose of them and loot their bodies for thekey to the lodge. Inside, look around until you are met with the surprising sight of Mikael's book, A Gentleman's Guide to Whiterun. Head into the basement where you will find the scared, tied-up smith in a corner, weeping: "Help! Somebody! Please, someone, help me!" and "I have been taken against my will! I am in need of rescue!"
When you talk to Baldor, he will remember you as the hero who rescued the people of Skaal Village. Despite his wounds, he'll claim he's not hurt. When you ask why the Thalmor abducted him, he'll reply: "I do not know this word Thalmor, but if you mean the elves, they were trying to learn the secrets of forging Stalhrim. Their leader, an elf named Ancarion, has a map. He says that it shows the location of a hidden source of Stalhrim." He will then explain what stalhrim is: "Enchanted ice as hard as iron and cold as death. Stalhrim can be forged into deadly weapons, but the art is known only to smiths of the Skaal." He will then point you towards a Thalmor ship at the northwestern coast where Ancarion resides. He asks you to retrieve the map as it belongs to the Skaal people. Leave the wounded smith behind and head towards the northwestern shores of Solstheim.

Click to expand...

Hammerfell and Argonia?

DrunkenMage said:

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

By Dwemer Automatons which the Dominion neither have, nor will ever use.

Click to expand...

No, one was killed by an arrow to the throat. The Dominion have plenty of archers, actually they have the best archers in Tamriel.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

No.. no not really. Kind of just fueled it actually.

Click to expand...

Yes, really.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

He was still young and he still respected the Graybeards greatly. There is no piece of evidence saying if he used it or if he didn't. Although he probably wouldn't have been captured if he did. He left to fight not because of the Graybeard Philosophy. He left because the fires of war burned in his heart. Its criminal to deny a Nord his right to war.

Click to expand...

Why wouldn't he have been captured? Tongues aren't invincable, and they can't shout constantly.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Because in one point he consented to his capture and to the other he didn't use the thu'um. Please dont say "pwn" in a sarcastic manner as if I would say that.

Click to expand...

Or he is just a crap military commander.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

And they'll also send an army. They're perfectly capable why wouldn't they? One fighting directly to capture the Snow Kingdom if possible the other to disrupt supply lines and make assassinations

Click to expand...

They can't send an army. Skyrim can't be invaded by the Aldmeri and Skyrim can't invade the Aldmeri unless passing through Cyrodiil. So if the Thalmor had an army in Skyrim, the Empire would be destroyed.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

And so will Stormcloaks. Only difference there is one can be considered violating the terms of The White Gold Concordant and one won't.

Click to expand...

No. the Thalmor are violating the terms if they send execution teams. They're not allowed to just attack people randomly.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Thats why I said : "refuse foreigner entry of any kind from Elsweyr, Valenwood, or Summerset."
I acknowledge there will be members of other races but this will keep them separated from their informants on the inside.

Click to expand...

Which Skyrim won't do.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

To giive indirect aid to the Stormcloaks Yada Yada heard it all before.

Click to expand...

Good, means you're paying attention.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Any thalmor in Skyrim re there and will remain there secretly because of the Empire.

Click to expand...

Yeah, because of the Empire. The Empire is the one thing the Thalmor are most against, hate everything it stands for. They'll turn greater attention towards Skyrim after the Civil War.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Not like that. Just give your soldiers something. I understand they need to work in secret but maybe they can keep their soldiers uplifted by saying they're fighting them just indirectly.

Click to expand...

Because the Legates don't make little indirect remarks... The soldiers know they're against the Thalmor. Pay attention to what they're on about. Hadvar, Rikke, Tullius, Fasendil and other Legates. They're all mentioning things that are telling you the Thalmor are the real enemy, that war between them is coming again.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Are you... Serious? Are you... Concerned? Do you know anything about the feud between The Gray Manes and the Battle Borns. Do you really think they care? At all! Im using your joke here because you are so much better than that. You've provided a logical argument thus far keeping me on my toes and then you say.... this. Its... I don't... Really?

Yeah to taunt the Gray Manes with it not because they were "concerned" do you think they give a pl***e about some Talos Worshipping traitor?
Olfrid: Foolish old woman! You know nothing! Nothing of our struggles, our suffering!
Fralia: Nothing? And what of my son? Hmm? What of Thorald? Is he nothing? So don't talk to me about suffering!
Idolaf: Your son chose his side, and he chose poorly. And now he's gone. Such is the way of war. The sooner you accept his loss, the better.
Fralia: I will never accept his death! My son still lives. I feel it in my heart. So tell me, Battle-Borns, where is he? Where are you holding my Thorald?
Olfrid: Do you believe this old hag? "Holding him"? Why I've got him in my cellar. He's my prisoner. Face it, cow! Your stupid son is dead! He died a Stormcloak traitor. And you... you best keep your mouth shut before you suffer the same.
Idolaf: Come on, father. There's nothing more to be said here.
That definitely sounds like a family concerned about his absence

Click to expand...

Trying to emulate me only works when you know what you're on about. Otherwise you come across as a bigger idiot than before.

They said he died in battle, because that is the best a Nord can hope for.

"Between the two of us, his family is better off thinking he's dead. Thorald and I have history, all right? We used to be friends. So I looked into it when he disappeared. I found out the Thalmor have him. And they don't let anyone go. So I've kept my mouth shut. Like I said, his family is better off believing he's gone, because he's never coming back." - Idolaf Battle-Born

"I used some contacts in the Legion, asked some questions. Was told I should mind my own business." - Idolaf Battle-Born

Oh snap, Mage wins again.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Pretty sure he was other wise there wouldn't be much of a fuss about it would there.

Click to expand...

The fuss was because the Battle-Born's inquired about it.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

okay. Hold on. lets break this down
1.) We have no proof he was already enlisted in the Rebellion therefore hes not a Stormcloak just an innocent Nord. as a matter of fact he says he's going to fall in to their ranks at the end of the quest.
2.) Really!? a BUG! That's low. that is low. Not only is there zero proof of that Anywhere bu tit just doesn't make sense as that is not how quests work in Skyrim.
3.) We know and Tulius knows hes being tortured yet does Nothing. You Imperials are held by the balls. We're indirectly aided sure, thats true but your barely allowed to do your own thing without the Dominion struting along making sure the Concordant is in order.

To aid the underdogs so the war continues. yes I acknowledge this because its true

Click to expand...

He was going to join the Stormcloaks and he worshiped Talos, treason and violation of the Concordat.

Secondly, I'm getting real tired of correcting you. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Missing_In_Action#Bugs

Do you read about things before posting, or just hope at least 1% of the endless bullpl*** is correct?

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Herded? You're the ones being forced to do anything the Thalmor asks. attending parties forcefully, liking what they put up with, forcefully. Your dragged around like dogs! stand up for yourself Talos alive if the Penitus Oculattus were that effective at cold war-esque jobs and espionage, like you claim, maybe they can do some assassinations. Destroy Supply Lines. Intercept Information. Strike fear into the enemy. Y'know, Do Something other than stand around in Dragon Bridge with their dicks in their hands.

Click to expand...

Tullius attends a party because he doesn't want to cause diplomatic issues. He's a Military General, he follows his orders. Until his orders say kill the Thalmor, he does his job.

The Penitus Oculatus at Dragon Bridge aren't involved in espionage, they are open and wear the armor. They're bodyguards for the Emperor, not the undercover Inspectors. Genius.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

I know thee threat of the Aldmeri Dominion of the Thalmor there is no real threat the Stormcloaks can't handle.

Click to expand...

Lol. No real threat from the Thalmor the Stormcloaks can't handle? That is the funniest pl*** ever posted.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

You did say "anywhere" not to mention it would be the most secluded place.

Click to expand...

Cities are best. Crowded and people often mind their own business.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

They'll need some kind of base of command to launch from.

Click to expand...

No they don't. Most probably wouldn't even be aware of each other.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Im generalizing my race. You said there would be plenty. There will probably be about 5 or 6 and most of those won't even be remotely close to Ulfric or his base of command.

Click to expand...

Five or six in an entire country?

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Says who? You? You know about as much as I do about where and how the Dominion will strike

Click to expand...

Go look at a map of Tamriel. They can't strike anywhere, Skyrim can't be invaded by sea. Also with nearly the entire Imperial army on the Dominion's doorstep, you really think they'd weaken themselves by attacking another area?

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

I know how espionage works and Ill leave it to the Imperials. There obviously will be a standing army as well as some espionage happening. You think they'll leave it up to Agents and Assets to capture an entire country full of stubborn, relentless, intolerant Warriors who have a deep seeded hatred for Elves more than anything. You think they'd just let them do this? Maybe a coup worked in Valenwood with the empathetic and humble Bosmer. But with NORDS?! You're sorely mistaken.

Click to expand...

They don't plan to capture Skyrim. Weaken and disrupt yes, those stubborn Nords have a conflicting nature and anytime a King unites the province, it always falls apart later on. Thalmor can fund bandits, keep raiding farms, attacking supplies. Keep the Stormcloaks busy. Maybe convince a Jarl they'd be better High King.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Infiltrating Skyrim for a very long time. That's the Empire this is an independent Skyrim. Things will be different.

Click to expand...

Yeah, Thalmor will have a field day.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Key Word here is: Cyrodiil- also known as the Imperial Province, is a province in the south-central region of Tamriel, and the home of a humanoid race known as Imperials. The center of their Empire and seat of governance, Cyrodiil is also known as "the Heartland"

Click to expand...

You're right, what was I thinking. Thalmor infiltrating the Empire, of course they'd ignore the second most important province of the Empire.

Forgive me for giving Skyrim some priority, obviously if the Thalmor were ignoring Skyrim, it was never considered a threat.

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

Would they? they'd have their small little hiding spots maybe but not organized nests they can launch operations from.

Click to expand...

Well they've been in Skyrim openly for nearly thirty years and they were infiltrating the Empire for over a hundred years. So at least a hundred and thirty years of presence. Obviously they'd have nothing except tiny hiding spots, I mean how can they get organized after only that short amount of time?

Mikulas Black-Blade said:

They aren't in Morrowind, Hammerfell, or Argonia.

Click to expand...

Well technically they were in Morrowind, there was a boat of them on that island that belongs to Morrowind. The Thalmor would have a presence in areas, same as the Empire did and the Blades too.

You think the Thalmor wouldn't keep eyes and ears in Black Marsh or Hammerfell? That is a big assumption, since both those provinces are next to theirs. Be stupid not to have anything there and the Thalmor aren't stupid.

Click to expand...

well I look like an idiot. i formally apologize and wish you well.