Why do some People think Ulfric Stormcloak is Racist

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Lak'izur

Member
The imperials are evil they sit there and do nothing and encourage people to get tourtered and killed for their religion. That kind of evil must be squashed. And. Those cats and elves and lizards are not human so who cares? Ulfric isnt a racist because those animals are not human. Anybody who allows encourages people to be killed because of their beliefs deserves to be killed. The imperials also tourter people as well. It is a curropt empire and is no longer the Empire of Talos its an empire ofbtitus mede the non dragonborn fraud
I'm going to try to handle this with maturity.
1. The Empire doesn't encourage any of that stuff. They suffered heavy losses and felt backed into a corner. Weather you think they're being practical or cowardly, they're just as upset about it as anyone. Also, even most Stormcloak supporters don't view the Empire as evil. At worst, decadent and weak, but never evil.
2. They're cats and lizards the same way we're apes. And elves are so close to human they can produce children. That's where Bretons come from. If you're so narrow minded that you don't recognize Argonians, Khajiit and mer as people, maybe a fantasy game isn't for you.
3. So killing people for their beliefs is wrong, except when you say it isn't? The Empire agreed to a treaty that ended a devastating war. You're acting like they set the terms themselves.
4. Please read up on lore, and get a grip. You're starting to sound like a psychotically insane troll.


The Empire was bigger than the fakin Dominion at least in the 3 era. So what gave them the upper hand, magic or what?
 

FullmetalHeart20

Well-Known Member
Anyone here who actually read or listen to Ulfric? He said that he didnt want the high king to be some weakling.
And he had a very different definition of weakling. Apparently kings get into duals all the time. If they're younger and less experienced than their opponent, it's their own fault. fluff politics! Swords solve everything!
 

Bulldog

Active Member
A couple pages in and I got a serious headache. To say it is implausible to side with the Stormcloaks is nonsense at best. Just because he is (or isn't...not getting into that) racist doesn't mean you can't side with him. What if (for RP'ing sake, or maybe your own personal beliefs) that people should be able to worship whomever they choose without being persecuted then it would be completely OK to side with the Stormcloaks for that soul reason.

Just like the actual Civil War in America. People sided with the South even though they didn't approve of slavery, just because they felt that the South had a right to form their own government and be their own country.

Besides why couldn't some make a character that was racist against the Dark Elves and Argonians and play the role of a Stormcloak. That right there would be a great cause to just Ulfric's side.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
This debate just seems to go on and on.

Now that I've been off Skyrim for a few weeks (playing Oblivion), I've come to the conclusion that it really has to do with true RPing your characters.

Regardless of the side you choose, you have to decide to dedicate yourself to it or just skip the whole thing. I've plenty of characters that the Civil War has no affect on whatsover and I only do it out of obligation to do everything.

Is Ulfric a racist? IMO, no more so than anyone else in Skyrim. Ulfric is a smart, opportunist that knows how to play the social and political game. If perceived racism feeds in to his base, so be it. I am sure that there are followers of his that are racist just as I am sure there are some that are not.

Is the Aldmeri Dominion racist? Certainly, at least politically and philosophically, but not all Altmer are racist.

As I see it, it would very much depend on where you were and how you were raised in Skyrim. Look at the brothers in Falkreath, a place that has served as a waypost on the trip in to Skyrim from Cyrodil for ages. The brothers are most definately racist, but the majority of the town is not.

In Windhelm - are the two guys you encounter harrassing the Dark Elf when you first enter racist? Certainly, but, on the whole I don't think the population is racist. Most don't have anything negative to say about the Dark Elves or the Argonians there and the guards still patrol the Grey Quarter regardless and you are still held accountable no matter who you rob or kill.

I've even played an Argonian on the Stormcloak side. Sure, there are some snarky comments and you often get some odder things to do, but, hey, I never really felt discrimated against.

Just my thoughts.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
I think the racism argument comes from the fact that he outright ignores the Dunmer when they, as citizens of Windhelm, complain to him about the conditions they live in and the lack of resources and methods to get it.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
I think the racism argument comes from the fact that he outright ignores the Dunmer when they, as citizens of Windhelm, complain to him about the conditions they live in and the lack of resources and methods to get it.
Ignoring someone's plight is not neccessarily racist to me. Sure, it smacks of a lack of compassion, but it is not neccessarily racist. It's actually a very WASPy sort of thing to do. Where I come from there was never any racism demonstrated. You would never deny someone's rights or use a racial slur. You would, however, completely ignore that anyone else was doing it and take absolutely no action to rectify the situation or even admit that there was a situation that may need rectifying in the first place. De Nile is not just a river in Egypt.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
I think the racism argument comes from the fact that he outright ignores the Dunmer when they, as citizens of Windhelm, complain to him about the conditions they live in and the lack of resources and methods to get it.
Ignoring someone's plight is not neccessarily racist to me. Sure, it smacks of a lack of compassion, but it is not neccessarily racist. It's actually a very WASPy sort of thing to do. Where I come from there was never any racism demonstrated. You would never deny someone's rights or use a racial slur. You would, however, completely ignore that anyone else was doing it and take absolutely no action to rectify the situation or even admit that there was a situation that may need rectifying in the first place. De Nile is not just a river in Egypt.

But considering it is an entire race of people he is ignoring. the nords are not the ones complaining, but the Dunmer who are being ignored.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
I think the racism argument comes from the fact that he outright ignores the Dunmer when they, as citizens of Windhelm, complain to him about the conditions they live in and the lack of resources and methods to get it.
Ignoring someone's plight is not neccessarily racist to me. Sure, it smacks of a lack of compassion, but it is not neccessarily racist. It's actually a very WASPy sort of thing to do. Where I come from there was never any racism demonstrated. You would never deny someone's rights or use a racial slur. You would, however, completely ignore that anyone else was doing it and take absolutely no action to rectify the situation or even admit that there was a situation that may need rectifying in the first place. De Nile is not just a river in Egypt.

But considering it is an entire race of people he is ignoring. the nords are not the ones complaining, but the Dunmer who are being ignored.
Your point? He's ignoring the plight of the Argonians as well that live in even more deplorable conditions on his docks.

I agree that his behavior is certainly not what I would call "socially concious" and compassionate to his own citizens, but, then again, he is playing a political game in which it is better to ignore mistreatment or lack of groups of people that have no direct influence or importance in the political situation he is involved in as he needs to keep his base happy and the ingrained xenophobia and subtle racism of many Nords can be played to, giving him an advantage.

I know it's deplorable, but it's is not directly racist IMO. It is simply deplorable, but useful for his goals.

On the plus side, at least he does not act directly against either the Dunmer or the Argonians. He could have simply escorted both groups out of Windhelm and banished them from Eastmarch completely under threat of death, or, he could simply have had all of them executed (thus solving his problem), but, he does neither but simply allows them to keep living in Windhelm and allowing the pot to continue boiling until he needs for it to boil over.

I firmly believe that he has manipulated the situation so that it will fall out to his own advantage in the end.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
scurrd.gif

No way!
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
Yup. I've heard of it, but I've never used it or come in contact with it. Hey, I do compliance and D&T work for senior living communities, there really hasn't been that much of a call for it. We're lucky if we can get 'em to use Facebook and even that's kinda iffy.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Ignoring someone's plight is not neccessarily racist to me. Sure, it smacks of a lack of compassion, but it is not neccessarily racist. It's actually a very WASPy sort of thing to do. Where I come from there was never any racism demonstrated. You would never deny someone's rights or use a racial slur. You would, however, completely ignore that anyone else was doing it and take absolutely no action to rectify the situation or even admit that there was a situation that may need rectifying in the first place. De Nile is not just a river in Egypt.

But considering it is an entire race of people he is ignoring. the nords are not the ones complaining, but the Dunmer who are being ignored.
Your point? He's ignoring the plight of the Argonians as well that live in even more deplorable conditions on his docks.

I agree that his behavior is certainly not what I would call "socially concious" and compassionate to his own citizens, but, then again, he is playing a political game in which it is better to ignore mistreatment or lack of groups of people that have no direct influence or importance in the political situation he is involved in as he needs to keep his base happy and the ingrained xenophobia and subtle racism of many Nords can be played to, giving him an advantage.

I know it's deplorable, but it's is not directly racist IMO. It is simply deplorable, but useful for his goals.

On the plus side, at least he does not act directly against either the Dunmer or the Argonians. He could have simply escorted both groups out of Windhelm and banished them from Eastmarch completely under threat of death, or, he could simply have had all of them executed (thus solving his problem), but, he does neither but simply allows them to keep living in Windhelm and allowing the pot to continue boiling until he needs for it to boil over.

I firmly believe that he has manipulated the situation so that it will fall out to his own advantage in the end.


As I said, some people think it is racist because he is not ignoring the Nord problems, but is with other non-nord races.
 

Daelon DuLac

How do you backstab a Dragon?
But considering it is an entire race of people he is ignoring. the nords are not the ones complaining, but the Dunmer who are being ignored.
Your point? He's ignoring the plight of the Argonians as well that live in even more deplorable conditions on his docks.

I agree that his behavior is certainly not what I would call "socially concious" and compassionate to his own citizens, but, then again, he is playing a political game in which it is better to ignore mistreatment or lack of groups of people that have no direct influence or importance in the political situation he is involved in as he needs to keep his base happy and the ingrained xenophobia and subtle racism of many Nords can be played to, giving him an advantage.

I know it's deplorable, but it's is not directly racist IMO. It is simply deplorable, but useful for his goals.

On the plus side, at least he does not act directly against either the Dunmer or the Argonians. He could have simply escorted both groups out of Windhelm and banished them from Eastmarch completely under threat of death, or, he could simply have had all of them executed (thus solving his problem), but, he does neither but simply allows them to keep living in Windhelm and allowing the pot to continue boiling until he needs for it to boil over.

I firmly believe that he has manipulated the situation so that it will fall out to his own advantage in the end.


As I said, some people think it is racist because he is not ignoring the Nord problems, but is with other non-nord races.
Hmm... IMO not racist, but, then again, I'm old and don't believe in PC or care much for other people's feelings, so I guess I shouldn't have an opinion.
 

nyalalam

New Member
What I don't understand is why are there so many soy boys who care that Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are xenophobic? Skyrim is set in medieval times, for crying out loud! It's not set in 2017 "progressive" San Francisco. Everyone was racist and territorial back then - those were perfectly NORMAL, everyday attitudes. Back then, wars were fought to protect homogeneity and borders and to prevent groups from amalgamating! That's why we have all the different European countries with their own languages and cultures and people of various racial aesthetics today. Without xenophobia, there would have been no France, Germany, Italy, Russia, Spain, etc. and their respective languages would not have existed. Complaining that the Stormcloaks are racist is as immature and asinine as it would have been to complain that the Stormcloaks eat meat as opposed to being vegetarian, as you are imposing 21st century ideologies on people who lived thousands of years ago, in a time when political correctness wasn't even invented yet. Stop being little PC warriors, guys, it is really, really effeminate of you. Besides, there could be many justifiable reasons for why the Stormcloak Nords are xenophobic and Bethesda does a very bad job, as usual, at writing and world building. The Nords most likely aren't allowed to teach the Nord language in schools anymore because it "discriminates against all the non-Nords in Skyrim who can't speak the language" - which is depriving Nord children a Nordic cultural upbringing. Seriously, thanks to the Empire, an Elf, Argonian or Kajit can live in Skyrim all their life and never bother to learn one word of the Nord language. I know that in the game, everyone speaks the same tongue, but if Skyrim were a real place, the Nords would have had their own language. Additionally the other non-Nord groups most likely take sides with the empire on nearly every issue as they would benefit more from it, even if it does social and cultural damage to the Nords, simply because the Nord heritage and values are not important to them - it's not their culture, so why should they care what happens to it? Homogeneity is good - that is why Denmark, Norway and Sweden used to be so idyllic. Diversity is at best a mixed blessing and often leads to racial tension, favouritism, disenfranchisement, quotas, hatred, jealousy discord and eventual oppression of free will, freedom of choice, freedom of speech and persecution of people for thought crimes. I wish people would learn to think further than what their noses are long. I know that the issue in Skyrim shouldn't necessarily be compared to modern day issues, but still, it's just silly to be shunning groups of people who lived thousands of years ago for being territorial when we were up to the 1980s in real life still exactly the same as the Stormcloaks are in Skyrim. What's next? Are people going to complain about the Romans being imperialist and racist towards other cultures and refuse to play as the Roman Empire in strategy games?
 

Aleksander

New Member
Sure he's totally not racist.... except for all the racial segregation. Not allowing Argonians into the city and keeping Dunmer confined to the slums is definitely not a racist thing to do at all.
 

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