Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
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DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Behold the Imperial Capital.
Behold... whatever sinkhole you call this.
NENALATA
Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Precisely. All the Empire's 'progress' would get discarded and the 'Imperial Culture' would be flushed out, except in places like Solitude. This is what several of the other Provinces are already doing, identifying the Empire as a corrupt system.
However, fully implementing this level of rev will be problematic:
1) Skyrim has strong economic allegiances with it's neighbor Provinces out of necessity
2) You've got another 50% of the country completely and utterly opposed to this
3) Dragonborn (blood of Tiber Septim) outranks Jarl (and High King), so if the DB ever had any reservations about this, could cause major problems
In other words, this probably wouldn't work out because of the massive opposition to this form of change, which would be seen as cruel and barbaric by no less that half the population who may not be in love with the Empire, however they do enjoy Imperial Civilization.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
We gave them roads, laws, education, new culture and a chance to see the world of our united Empire. How do they repay us? Wearing animal skins and attacking us with axes.
Salonia: "I hate it here. Those were my favorite shoes, ruined and for what? We never even made it to the wedding."
Plautis: "Wha... Your shoes? We get robbed by bandits, my clothes torn to shreds by some giant cat, our bodyguard eaten by a dragon... And you're worried about your shoes?"
Salonia: "When we get back to Cyrodiil, I swear I will hire an army of battlemages to come up here and set fire to the whole damned province."
This province is a mess, so uncivilized.
Salonia: "I hate it here. Those were my favorite shoes, ruined and for what? We never even made it to the wedding."
Plautis: "Wha... Your shoes? We get robbed by bandits, my clothes torn to shreds by some giant cat, our bodyguard eaten by a dragon... And you're worried about your shoes?"
Salonia: "When we get back to Cyrodiil, I swear I will hire an army of battlemages to come up here and set fire to the whole damned province."
This province is a mess, so uncivilized.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Who wouldn't, without us the Holds would still be warring with each other.
For brief periods, one ruler has managed to unite all of Skyrim, but the Nord character is one essentially of conflict, and the confederacies never last. The Cyrodilic Empire and later the Septim Empire was able to take advantage of this tendency... - Pocket Guide to the Empire, 3rd Edition/Skyrim
Let them "throw off the shackles" of the Empire. Couple years later, the Jarls will be back to infighting. They'll be begging for us to restore order, because they can't. They know this, since it was they who destroyed the Ysgramor Kingdom.
Hell, they even sacked their own capital during their first war of succession. Now they want another war of succession, this time the Stormcloaks sacking two cities. Thalmor don't even have to worry about attacking Skyrim, the Nords will destroy and war with themselves once more, back to the bad old days. Clans and Chieftains, petty skirmishes, petty conflicts between Jarls.
The Stormcloaks don't even stop to think of the one tiny minor detail "Hey, don't we depend on Cyrodiil for food..."
Yimir Skallagrimson
Member
The Empire was founded by Nords of Skyrim... bashing them for being unwashed and uncivilized is precisely the reason I kill a lot more Imperial nobles on the road than anyone else.
Because hey if I'm going to be negatively stereotyped, might as well get some pleasure out of it. I look forward to making you wear that smug grin around your ass, Imperial snob.
Because hey if I'm going to be negatively stereotyped, might as well get some pleasure out of it. I look forward to making you wear that smug grin around your ass, Imperial snob.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
The Third Empire was founded by Talos. The other two Empire's were founded by the Imperials. Also the Nords of Skyrim didn't exactly found it, the Colovian Estates were the major control. The Nords opposed the General Talos, until their defeat at Sancre Tor.
So yes, the Empire was 'founded' by Nords... after they got their ass kicked by the Imperials.
They are uncivilised, it was how the Reman and Septim Empires were able to get Skyrim as a province. Skyrim was part of the Second Empire too. We're at number three. Take away the Empire, the Nords of Skyrim tend to war with each other, hell the Holds have been fighting throughout recorded history. Winterhold and Solitude used to be rivals.
Yimir Skallagrimson
Member
Behold the Imperial Capital, which we have taken over from elves, who haven't even built it either.
Behold... whatever sinkhole you call this. That you actually put blood and sweat to build... labore? what is that? My dear I do believe that these philstines said a word I do not coaprehand! Most Unorthodox!
Fixd.
Also it doesn't change the fact all humans of Tamriel are descendant from Nords, So yes it was founded by Nords :>
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Well they didn't really found it. Since Talos is either a Breton from High Rock or a Nord from Atmora. Neither of which is a 'Nord of Skyrim' so the Nords of Skyrim founding the Empire, is a bit of a stretch. Since the Nords opposed Talos and raised an army to defeat him, even when they knew he was Dovahkiin/Dragonborn.
Talos' race is technically unknown.
Yimir Skallagrimson
Member
Gotta love how skillfully the fact that the Imperial city wasn't built by the fat and lazy Imperials was silently shuffled to the side - Imperials gotta be real good at selective reading/hearing ain't they?
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
The Imperial City was built around the White-Gold Tower. There was labor involved there too.
Well, no. Redguards are not descended from Nedes.
As for Imperials, they were descended from Nedes but that was a very long time ago. So it doesn't really count.
Yimir Skallagrimson
Member
Can't wait till TES Online... no imperials what so ever in sight.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Imperial City was built by the Imperials, White-Gold Tower however wasn't. Also many ancient structures were, since they were slaves. Until the slave revolt and they established the First Empire.
There are Imperials in TESO. They're the enemy. You're in the Common Era (Second Era) after the fall of the Second Empire. Be a giant lore fail if the Imperials had vanished during that time.
Anouck
Queen of Procrastination
Bethesda isn't exactly happy with TESO. Not now the company who makes it decides to change history which makes TESO clash with previous Elder Scrolls games. All the information they worked so hard on - thrown overboard because someone decided they can make money with this.
These are stated facts, my friend. It is not a matter of selective hearing/reading. Cheers
Yimir Skallagrimson
Member
A Bigger or lesser fail than Argonians Dark Elfs and Nords banded in an alliance around that time?
Bethesda isn't exactly happy with TESO. Not now the company who makes it decides to change history which makes TESO clash with previous Elder Scrolls games. All the information they worked so hard on - thrown overboard because someone decided they can make money with this.
Oh sure, because Bethesda are so renowned in writing three dimensional and complex worlds.... as opposed to shallow lazily written settings where one side is ultra good and the other is ultra evil, and nobody on either side act like a normal human being.
Anouck
Queen of Procrastination
A Bigger or lesser fail than Argonians Dark Elfs and Nords banded in an alliance around that time?
Bethesda isn't exactly happy with TESO. Not now the company who makes it decides to change history which makes TESO clash with previous Elder Scrolls games. All the information they worked so hard on - thrown overboard because someone decided they can make money with this.
Oh sure, because Bethesda are so renowned in writing three dimensional and complex worlds.... as opposed to shallow lazily written settings where one side is ultra good and the other is ultra evil, and nobody on either side act like a normal human being.
Then you don't have that much knowledge on the ingame information. There is a lot, and I really mean a lot, of anti-Imperial lore. You just have to look for it. Arguments against the Empire don't just fall from the sky, you know. No one is going to make them up for you. You will have to do some reading yourself, but then I can assure you you will find more than enough arguments against the Empire.
The blessing and curse of the Stormcloaks is that they are passionate people. They usually defend their cause here using their morals and ideals. And that is great, but you can't always win a debate by just using morals and things you personally believe in. Facts that back you up and support your side are useful as well. Sadly people often don't bother to even read the information that is out there.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Take that up with Zenimax, the company creating TESO. Where an Elder Scroll is to grant a 5% boost to your team and is used as capture the flag.
Neither side is good or bad. Both sides have their positives and negatives, just majority of Stormcloaks who do come into this thread, don't bother looking. The ones in this thread tend to just deny everything, instead of using information to their advantage. Not saying you do, of course. Just the majority.
Yimir Skallagrimson
Member
Well I can look for the info, but not on this play-through, seeing as I'm playing a slightly illiterate Nord... that and I'm not very good with English 
And sorry but if the Stormcloaks have only morality and whatnot to go on... I cannot back them - Morality and rights are ambiguous, and can't stand up to hard cold facts. because they are most the time diametrically opposed to rational logical though as they are based on Emotions and hotheaded snap decisions.
Emotional based decissions are not a way to lead a country.
I may be hotheaded myself, but I am willing to set my dislike for the empire aside, so long as they promise me hot Mer blood to cake my steel in.
And sorry but if the Stormcloaks have only morality and whatnot to go on... I cannot back them - Morality and rights are ambiguous, and can't stand up to hard cold facts. because they are most the time diametrically opposed to rational logical though as they are based on Emotions and hotheaded snap decisions.
Emotional based decissions are not a way to lead a country.
I may be hotheaded myself, but I am willing to set my dislike for the empire aside, so long as they promise me hot Mer blood to cake my steel in.
Gigapact
Lollygagging Milk Drinker (according to guards)
So, I just wanted to say this, but I was reading through some of the pages, and people seem to get in a TON of arguments on here, holy plops. But some people attack people for no reason.
I actually had an old profile from about a year ago, but I completely forgot all of the info to open it back up, hence me making a new one. But I remember when I was on that profile, I posted here, and I got attacked real bad, just because I agreed with the Empire. They kept telling me all of my stuff was incorrect... and I was like, "Umm... I'm getting this stuff from the actual game, so unless Bethesda is wrong for what they're writing in here, you're actually wrong."
I remember that actually made me stop coming on here because people were really rude. I see both points from both Stormcloaks and the Empire, and I love debates, but be nice people! It actually steers people from being on this forum and we need all the people we can get!
Just wanted to say that, don't attack me.
I actually had an old profile from about a year ago, but I completely forgot all of the info to open it back up, hence me making a new one. But I remember when I was on that profile, I posted here, and I got attacked real bad, just because I agreed with the Empire. They kept telling me all of my stuff was incorrect... and I was like, "Umm... I'm getting this stuff from the actual game, so unless Bethesda is wrong for what they're writing in here, you're actually wrong."
I remember that actually made me stop coming on here because people were really rude. I see both points from both Stormcloaks and the Empire, and I love debates, but be nice people! It actually steers people from being on this forum and we need all the people we can get!
Just wanted to say that, don't attack me.
