How to be GOOD when a quest wants you to do BAD things?

[Daelon DuLac]

Good luck with that my friend. Take it from a former Justiciar with a grudge. It isn't Tamriel that we want. Of course we wouldn't backstab a human any more than we would use a crossbow on a skeever. A waste of energy on a lesser being. Much better to crush them, burn them or simply step on them. Ants don't deserve that much regards. Yes, they are numerous, but the right measures will guarantee that they do not become a problem. Keep your little land human. We have bigger fish to fry. You only provide a diversion.

After reading that one text that started with "To kill Man is to reach heaven", I'm aware of that. And yet, as long as humanity exists, those plans are useless. Which is why they'd eventually need to conquer it all, can't rid Tamriel of humanity if you don't have the power.
Pfft, it's your land that will be fried by nuclear bombs once we can create a way to reach our cousins of the Blue Planet.

Again - good luck with that my friend. You race can barely stand the sight of each other without conflict. I doubt if your "cousins" will be amenible to your overtures. Thank you though for the confirmation of what we have suspected for many eons. Perhaps we will reach them first, eh? Your fur wearing, drum beating masses will certainly serve well if properly disciplined.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

Again - good luck with that my friend. You race can barely stand the sight of each other without conflict. I doubt if your "cousins" will be amenible to your overtures. Thank you though for the confirmation of what we have suspected for many eons. Perhaps we will reach them first, eh? Your fur wearing, drum beating masses will certainly serve well if properly disciplined.

And still it's your kin that uses stairs instead of elevators.

Well, with your long lifespan I can imagine they'd find perfect use in a few mines for you.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

Again - good luck with that my friend. You race can barely stand the sight of each other without conflict. I doubt if your "cousins" will be amenible to your overtures. Thank you though for the confirmation of what we have suspected for many eons. Perhaps we will reach them first, eh? Your fur wearing, drum beating masses will certainly serve well if properly disciplined.

And still it's your kin that uses stairs instead of elevators.

Well, with your long lifespan I can imagine they'd find perfect use in a few mines for you.

???????

 

[tx12001]

you are stealing off bad people< think Robin Hood style

Doesn't matter. Stealing is stealing. Period. My characters (even the evil ones) DO NOT STEAL (unless, of course they're a thief character and belong to the TG).

Murder: Cool! All in a days work. Looting dead bodies: Cool! A great way to make some extra cash. Stealing: Not in this lifetime bub. Somebody worked for that stuff and I have absolutely no right to take it away from them (and yes, before you say something, even if they stole it from someone else, they still had to go through the work of stealing it in the first place.

As to the lock-picking, I usually play good characters as well (although they are really murderous thugs that prey on the baddies!). I really don't see it as an issue. Do you consider the Locksmith a criminal? How else are you going to satisfy your curiousity about those locked chests and doors in those abandoned places. I draw the line at breaking and entering and will not do it to the living (example: in Falkreath the Old Coot/Old Jarl wants me to break in to Hod's house and steal a letter. No can do. I like Hod and have no right to do that for anyone. Besides, if Beth had thought about it, they should have put an option in where I could just ask him about it. He probably would have answered honestly. That's the way he is!). (Another example: Morthal - trying to get at the lady vampire's journal. Supposed to break in to her home. No way! It's easier just to kill her boyfriend discretely and take his key. That way you're not breaking and entering, you have the key).

You would Murder someone on a whim and you think stealing is Bad, here is something you should know, MURDER IS WORSE THEN STEALING and you have a problem taking a journel off something that is not Human, taking something off a Vampire is no different then looting a dead body because vampires are not Alive
now with Dengier os Sthun asking you to break into Hods House, I Refuse to do that Quest regardless as I usually Side with the Imperials and that Quest is Helping a Stormcloak that and the Missing in Action Quest as they are my Enemies and I would do anything to see my Enemies dead even Steal something off them before I kill them, I don't Delay the Inevitable, I am going to take what I have to Regardless of if they are Living or Not.....Know I just came to a Conclusion however that Stealing off the Dead by looting their Bodies could be worse then Stealing while they are Alive as it could be Considered Grave-Robbing

 

[Irishman]

Can you always only be good in life??? (Did I just sound like a zen master???)

I agree with tx12001. The quest is robin hood type. It is for the greater good of skyrim. So I wouldn't mind doing that if I played a completely good character. Also like LotusEater says you could claim you were drunk.

And by the way do you kill NPC when playing this character??? Is it your follower that does all the killing???

Well she does have a bottle of wine with dinner most nights...
NO! Being drunk on the jobis a big no-no, specially if its her 1st b&e!

Also she does NOT murder or kill other than in self defense or if she believes that her life, her friends life or her possessions are under threat.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

you are stealing off bad people< think Robin Hood style

Doesn't matter. Stealing is stealing. Period. My characters (even the evil ones) DO NOT STEAL (unless, of course they're a thief character and belong to the TG).

Murder: Cool! All in a days work. Looting dead bodies: Cool! A great way to make some extra cash. Stealing: Not in this lifetime bub. Somebody worked for that stuff and I have absolutely no right to take it away from them (and yes, before you say something, even if they stole it from someone else, they still had to go through the work of stealing it in the first place.

As to the lock-picking, I usually play good characters as well (although they are really murderous thugs that prey on the baddies!). I really don't see it as an issue. Do you consider the Locksmith a criminal? How else are you going to satisfy your curiousity about those locked chests and doors in those abandoned places. I draw the line at breaking and entering and will not do it to the living (example: in Falkreath the Old Coot/Old Jarl wants me to break in to Hod's house and steal a letter. No can do. I like Hod and have no right to do that for anyone. Besides, if Beth had thought about it, they should have put an option in where I could just ask him about it. He probably would have answered honestly. That's the way he is!). (Another example: Morthal - trying to get at the lady vampire's journal. Supposed to break in to her home. No way! It's easier just to kill her boyfriend discretely and take his key. That way you're not breaking and entering, you have the key).

You would Murder someone on a whim and you think stealing is Bad, here is something you should know, MURDER IS WORSE THEN STEALING and you have a problem taking a journel off something that is not Human, taking something off a Vampire is no different then looting a dead body because vampires are not Alive
now with Dengier os Sthun asking you to break into Hods House, I Refuse to do that Quest regardless as I usually Side with the Imperials and that Quest is Helping a Stormcloak that and the Missing in Action Quest as they are my Enemies and I would do anything to see my Enemies dead even Steal something off them before I kill them, I don't Delay the Inevitable, I am going to take what I have to Regardless of if they are Living or Not

We're all entitled to our opinion, of course. Respect for "human" life is not hardwired. While, in real life I would, of course neither murder nor steal (regardless of the situation) unless (in the case of murder, I was directly threatened or the threat was in re to someone that I care about - family, friend, etc...); in the game, my characters do not feel the same way, particularly my non-human ones. We each RP our characters differently, of course. While most of my characters go nowhere near the DB, almost none of them do the TG unless there is an overarching RP reason for it (i.e. the character is a thief). To quote a wise person: When it comes to the 10 commandments, it all comes down to Theft. Murder is the theft of Life, adultery is the theft of Wife, etc...

 

[Irishman]

polite young altmer

Meh, in my experience, "polite" and "Altmer" doesn't add up. Unless you're polite towards Elves only.

That is such a nord way of seeing things!
Just because the only altmer you come across in skyrim are arrogant, selfcentered justiciars and poloticians doesnt mean that every high elf has that personality disposition. Not every nord is a warrior, not every orc wants to live in a stronghold and not every altmer is snobish and rude!

 

[tx12001]

polite young altmer

Meh, in my experience, "polite" and "Altmer" doesn't add up. Unless you're polite towards Elves only.

That is such a nord way of seeing things!
Just because the only altmer you come across in skyrim are arrogant, selfcentered justiciars and poloticians doesnt mean that every high elf has that personality disposition. Not every nord is a warrior, not every orc wants to live in a stronghold and not every altmer is snobish and rude!

Example Miraak was a Nord and he was more of a Sorcerer then a Warrior
2 out of 3 elves you encounter on the Roads are Warriors, 2 Justiciars with swords and Armour and 1 Wizard

 

[Daelon DuLac]

Meh, in my experience, "polite" and "Altmer" doesn't add up. Unless you're polite towards Elves only.

That is such a nord way of seeing things!
Just because the only altmer you come across in skyrim are arrogant, selfcentered justiciars and poloticians doesnt mean that every high elf has that personality disposition. Not every nord is a warrior, not every orc wants to live in a stronghold and not every altmer is snobish and rude!

Example Miraak was a Nord and he was more of a Sorcerer then a Warrior
2 out of 3 elves you encounter on the Roads are Warriors, 2 Justiciars with swords and Armour and 1 Wizard

And more of an a**hole than Ulfrich himself!

 

[Irishman]

you are stealing off bad people< think Robin Hood style

Doesn't matter. Stealing is stealing. Period. My characters (even the evil ones) DO NOT STEAL (unless, of course they're a thief character and belong to the TG).

Murder: Cool! All in a days work. Looting dead bodies: Cool! A great way to make some extra cash. Stealing: Not in this lifetime bub. Somebody worked for that stuff and I have absolutely no right to take it away from them (and yes, before you say something, even if they stole it from someone else, they still had to go through the work of stealing it in the first place.

As to the lock-picking, I usually play good characters as well (although they are really murderous thugs that prey on the baddies!). I really don't see it as an issue. Do you consider the Locksmith a criminal? How else are you going to satisfy your curiousity about those locked chests and doors in those abandoned places. I draw the line at breaking and entering and will not do it to the living (example: in Falkreath the Old Coot/Old Jarl wants me to break in to Hod's house and steal a letter. No can do. I like Hod and have no right to do that for anyone. Besides, if Beth had thought about it, they should have put an option in where I could just ask him about it. He probably would have answered honestly. That's the way he is!). (Another example: Morthal - trying to get at the lady vampire's journal. Supposed to break in to her home. No way! It's easier just to kill her boyfriend discretely and take his key. That way you're not breaking and entering, you have the key).

Iv had many characters that pick open ever single locked thing and 9times out of 10 its not worth the time. Apart from the xp you gain from expert and master locks, the items (specially at low levels) arnt really worth it. Its not that I think picklocking a door in a draugr cript is criminal or even bad, I just dont want Elenwen tempted down that treacherous and all to tempting road

but i do agree with you, stealing is stealing full stop. It may be against what bethesda intended as stealing seems a huge part of the game, but sometimes you gotta draw the line.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

That is such a nord way of seeing things!
Just because the only altmer you come across in skyrim are arrogant, selfcentered justiciars and poloticians doesnt mean that every high elf has that personality disposition. Not every nord is a warrior, not every orc wants to live in a stronghold and not every altmer is snobish and rude!

Nord? Pfft, I'm playing a Redguard and will forever!
Actually I wasn't going on about the Thalmor in particular. I mean those two women in Solitude who run their own shop, Nirya from the College of Winterhold, Nelacar in Winterhold who hates your guts should you choose to side with Azura, that other Altmer guy with necrophilia fetish, plus basically every Altmer mage in dungeons who try to get my bum burned...
I know that there is proof of Altmer or any other race that they are more than just arrogant, sticking to their strongholds or drinking mead until it comes out of their ears again, but the majority's just that way of each race. Like Ysolda in Whiterun complaining that "a few apples spoil the bunch" when it comes to Khajiit, and later in the Thieves Guild you still manage your dealings with them.

There are stereotypes and prejudices, but those didn't come from nowhere.
Doesn't matter too much for me though, it's these qualities that eventually add up to the big full picture. I wouldn't like cuddly Orcs and I'd miss arrogance at some point as well, somehow it seems to tickle the masochist inside me.

 

[Chadonraz]

polite young altmer

Meh, in my experience, "polite" and "Altmer" doesn't add up. Unless you're polite towards Elves only.

There are perfectly polite/nice Altmer NPCs in the game. Here are three I can think of right away: Runil (the Priest of Arkay in Falkreath), Nenya (the initial steward in Falkreath) and Legate Fasendil (Rift Imperial camp/Mistveil Keep).

Unfortunately the rude ones and Thalmor outnumber them hundred to one.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

There are perfectly polite/nice Altmer NPCs in the game. Here are three I can think of right away: Runil (the Priest of Arkay in Falkreath), Nenya (the initial steward in Falkreath) and Legate Fasendil (Rift Imperial camp/Mistveil Keep).

Unfortunately the rude ones and Thalmor outnumber them hundred to one.

Read my post above yours.

 

[Irishman]

All races of Skyrim have the potential to be good or bad or inbetween.

Except dunmer. They look way 2 evil to be the good guys

 

[ColleenG]

This is why the book, "Thief of Virtue" is available all over Skyrim.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

This is why the book, "Thief of Virtue" is available all over Skyrim.

I actually like that book and the Thief series is awesome too!

 

[Irishman]

This is why the book, "Thief of Virtue" is available all over Skyrim.

I actually like that book and the Thief series is awesome too!

Tis a good book.. I dont quite know how how it fits with my thievic (?) Dilemma though...

Thief hears of kings gold
Thief steals gold expertly
Thief nearly gets caught
Thief swoons and lays with kings wife and loses gold to keep his head.

1. Im not a thief
2. Im not a master thief
3. Im not gonna lezo hookup my way out of a crime I wouldnt commit in the 1st place

On a sorta unrelated note, there really are some great books in the word of Skyrim... if I had the time id read em all!

 

[tx12001]

polite young altmer

Meh, in my experience, "polite" and "Altmer" doesn't add up. Unless you're polite towards Elves only.

There are perfectly polite/nice Altmer NPCs in the game. Here are three I can think of right away: Runil (the Priest of Arkay in Falkreath), Nenya (the initial steward in Falkreath) and Legate Fasendil (Rift Imperial camp/Mistveil Keep).

Unfortunately the rude ones and Thalmor outnumber them hundred to one.

what about the Altmer that works the stables in Windhelm and what about Nelecar in Winterhold and Faralda, I would not neccesearly call them Bad, what about Giarmo the Headmaster (I think that's his name) of the Bards College and Calcelmo of Markarth what about his Nephew

 

[Majir-Dar]

If this helps any, "Morality is only an illusion created by weak mortals trying to make the strong look weaker then them."

If your character truly wants to help the East Empire Company, then he will simply have to accept the fact that he is going to have to steal. Of course, you could simply "confiscate it". You know, if they're proven to be evil, keep the logbook as evidence of their crimes. However, if they're proven innocent, give the logbook back.

 

[Irishman]

Mk people thanks very much for your input. Im pretty convince at this stage in Elenwens life, she is not going to steal just to sate someones appetite. Especially since that some1 is a person who she just met.

Now I have another question that again I would very much like to hear your opinions about. As some of you may know, im a bit of necromaniac on my other playthrough and a big part of the reason I wanted to create a brand new pure mage is becuase I wanted to thrall some npcs that are too high to thrall as Incubus.

However as iv played more and more as Elenwen, iv actually more gone down the road of atronachs, which is fine because you need to level conjuration to get the thrall spell somehow (other than dual casting bound sword in front of a mudcrab for 3hours). But iv been thinking...

Is being a necromancer bad or maybe even evil??

It sure sounds like it could be:

Killing powerful npcs
Raising thier dead moaning bodies
Storing corpses in a room in your house
Stripping carcases of thier clothes in order to enchant
Even when a thrall dies... again, they moan 'thankyou'

Any ideas?