Obviously they arent full citizens if they cant leave the gray district...
That's the point. They are citizens but they are denied equal rights because of their race. That's racism. Thanks once again for unintentionally conceding the point.
...also there is no solid evidence they are, all I see is a Lady who say "Ulfric should raise their taxes" obviously she doesnt know whetther or not they pay taxes or if they dont (how could she) she just want them to be punished for violating her.
First of all you're the one claiming that they weren't citizens with absolutely nothing to support the claim other than fabrications of your mind. Second, there's this thing called "common sense" which leads normal rational people to assume that when one lives some place for almost 200 years one is probably recognized as a citizen. Third, Viola is assuming he pays taxes because all citizens pay taxes and she
knows the resident Dunmer of Windhelm are citizens. She's reflecting common knowledge of all NPCs of Windhelm even if you're too dense to get that.
its funny because evrything ive said that has been right you jsut ignore and only respond to the stuff you think you can argue about, I respond to your entire post which is why you will see me admit i was wrong on somethings.. the argument has gone nowere
I've ignored nothing in your post.
If you think that they are citizens and they have all the rights of nords in windhelm then ur mistaken.
The former is true and the latter is the whole point. Your empty claim that they aren't citizens completely devoid of any lore to support it is merely your wishful thinking. I on the other hand have provided lore that supports the notion that they're citizens.
Obviously they dont. Obviously they arent citizens. You cant tell me that if they supported the stormcloaks, ulfric would turn down the extra men.
Sorry but putting the word "obviously" in front of a false statement doesn't automatically make it true. You need to provide facts to support your claims if you're going to hope to validate your propositions, and you've failed to do this on any meaningful level so far.
With the exception of your character if you choose to join the Stormcloaks and aren't a Nord, the Stormcloaks are racially homogenous, i.e. they're all Nords. This is in spite of the fact that you see plenty of non-Nords on the road who say they are going to Windhelm to join the Stormcloaks. That invalidates your claim that the Stormcloaks would be willing to accept other races in general and Dunmer in particular into their ranks.
In addition if you're trying to imply that the reason that the Dunmer are segregated has anything to do with anything other than their race by claiming it's because they won't actively support the Stormcloaks you're once again wrong as the segregation law was in place prior to the Stormcloak rebellion as has been pointed out ad nauseum in this thread.
Obviously I didnt mean that the same rules aplied for all races in Eastmarch, your argument is invalid.
Gee the same rules aren't applied for all races in Eastmarch. Your imaginary rule is only applied to the Dunmer which makes those that enforce it, i.e. Ulfric, racist. Statements like this only reinforce the notion that you don't have a firm grasp of what racism is.
strong·hold
/ˈstrôNGˌhōld/
Noun
- A place that has been fortified so as to protect it against attack.
Well windhelm is fortified against attack, Windhelm is therefore a Stronghold.
Windhelm is a capital city. Its fortification doesn't change the fact that as a capital city it's open to others in a way that a tribal stronghold is not which is why your analogy is still completely inaccurate.
True the sole purpose is to house the tribe, that is exactly what these "racist nords" want too do.
No it isn't. Windhelm's sole purpose is not to house the Nords. Like any capital city it doesn't have a sole purpose. Orsimer society is based on a tribal structure which is monoethnic by nature whereas Nord society, like all the societies of the human races of Tamriel, is not. There's nothing analogous between a tribe shunning outsiders and city segregating its residents by race.
They are wary of elves because elves are known to take their fellow talos worshipers.
Only the Thalmor are known to take people suspected of worshiping Talos. In case it's escaped you the Dunmer are not Thalmor. For that matter neither are all Altmer which is why they're not concerned about Niranye or Nurelion and why your statement is simply wrong and does nothing to explain their attitude about the Dunmer. Further, you're attempting to pursue a line of argument that doesn't even refute that Ulfric is racist. It only explains why he is racist.
Just like Orcs are wary of travelers for no good reason.
Wrong again. The Orsimer are wary of visitors to their strongholds because unlike a village or city, it's no more an area open to invitation than a fort or a private home and is why if you breach their privacy they react exactly the same way as an NPC does when you break into their home.
So what because the Nords of Windhelm are more tribal we should change their way of life and force them into the standards of the Imperial City?
As stated before they're not tribal. A tribal society is a pre-state society usually based on kinship (e.g. the Orsimer chieftain is the only one that takes wives and the only one that produces offspring for the tribe). The Nords are no more tribal than the white Americans of the segregated south of the early 20th century were tribal. Further, even though the Orsimer are a tribal society, even they extend Blood-Kin status to outsiders of other races under certain circumstances. The segregation laws of Windhelm have no such analogous provision.
By the way, Ulfric's racism isn't a shared trait to all the Nords in Windhelm so it's completely improper to use the term Nords as a proxy for Ulfric as if he's the representative of the beliefs and values of all the Nords of Windhelm let alone of Skyrim.
You're entire line of argument is invalid because (1) it has no basis in observable game content or lore, (2) it's actually largely contradicted by the same, and (3) it fails to even attempt to refute that Ulfric is racist and only seeks to justify it.
